Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 559,789
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

Waverly, OH

#430122 Mar 27, 2013
continued;Having only a third grade education, Ellen White said for years she was unable to read, bolstering the claim that her beautiful prose was inspired by God. However, it has been discovered that she not only read, but plagiarized other Christian authors throughout virtually all her writings. The sad facts of this matter have been thoroughly and indisputably established in several books.(e.g., see; Rea, Walter, The White Lie; and Judged by the Gospel, pp. 361–83). Ellen White died in 1915 at age eighty-eight.
Historically, evangelicals have had difficulty defining and categorizing SDA. Much SDA doctrine is biblically orthodox. Within its ranks are many true Christians, some even in positions of prominence. At various points in its history, most notably in the 1888 General Conference, the SDA church has been shaken by the biblical gospel. In the 1970s this became quite intense (Se: Paxton, Geoffrey, J., The Shaking of Adventism). Unfortunately, it produced a polarization. The church administrators generally became more entrenched in the unorthodox positions of traditional SDA, while some pastors and even whole congregations left or were asked to leave the SDA church (“From Controversy to Crisis,” CRI Journal, Vol. 11, No. 1, pp. 9–14). In official publications the SDA church continues to defend Ellen White legends, and maintain there was no difference in the degree of inspiration she received from that received by Bible writers (Review & Herald, 4 October 1928, p. 11; “Source of Final Appeal,” Adventist Review, 3 June 1971, pp. 4–6; G. A. Irwin, Mark of the Beast, p. 1; “The Inspiration and Authority of the Ellen G. White Writings,” Adventist Review, 15 July 1982, p. 3; Ministry, October 1981, p. 8; see also, Judged by the Gospel, pp. 125–30). In their June, 2000, General Conference they voted to more aggressively affirm and support the “Spirit of Prophecy through the ministry of Ellen White”(Adventist Today,[online: July 2000]). They also teach a number of other doctrines clearly irreconcilable with the biblical gospel (see “Doctrine,” below). So long as these things continue, evangelicals must persist in questioning the status of the SDA church organization in Christianity, and much more, her claim to be God’s only true, end-time “Remnant Church.”
SDA teachings most clearly contrary to the gospel and unorthodox in nature are its insistence on water baptism as an essential prerequisite to salvation, its teaching about the end time significance of sabbath observance to identification of true believers, and its doctrine of the Investigative Judgement.
Baptism:“…Christ made it clear that He required baptism of those who wished to become part of his church, His spiritual kingdom.”“In baptism believers enter into the passion experience of our Lord.”“…[B]aptism also marks [a] person’s entrance into Christ’s spiritual kingdom.…it unites the new believer to Christ.… Through baptism the Lord adds the new disciples to the body of believers — His body, the church.… Then they are members of God’s family”(SDA’s Believe…, pp. 182, 184, 187).

Jackson, MO

#430124 Mar 27, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
Where Are The Dead?
If the fact then is that the body returns to the ground and the breath of life returns to God, then where are the dead?
When Peter in Acts 2:34 was speaking about David the patriarch, he answered the question. "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand." Acts 2:29, "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."
Peter made it perfectly clear that David was still in his tomb, not in heaven or hell as many believe.
David will come forth when the "dead in Christ rise first" at the second coming of Jesus. David is now resting in the grave until the resurrection.
What About Lazarus?
If you just stop for a moment and think about this wonderful truth. You will realize that our loved ones who have preceded us in death, are not being tormented now in hell, nor are they in heaven either where they would be looking down upon the terrible scenes taking place on this earth. They are all sleeping the sleep of death until resurrection morning. The Bible calls death a sleep. Jesus said his friend Lazarus was asleep when he referred to Lazarus' death. "Our friend Lazarus sleepeth" John 11:11.
Lazarus Is Dead
Then in John 11:14 Jesus said, "Lazarus is dead." Christ called Lazarus forth from his tomb where he had been dead for four days.
When Lazarus stepped forth from his tomb, he did not say that he had been to heaven.
If Lazarus had been in heaven, don't you think that he would have protested about being brought back to this sinful earth?
He would not have wanted to stay here for even one minute.
He would have told those around him of the glorious scenes of heaven.
But Lazarus did not speak of heaven.
Lazarus had been sleeping in the dust of the earth since the breath of life had left him.
Ecclesiastes 9:5. "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Lazarus was not conscious of anything that was going on during the time he was in the tomb. Psalms 146:4 says; "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." We have no thoughts after death.
Psalms 115:17 tells us that there is no praise of God as far as the dead are concerned.
"The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence."
Isaiah 38:18,19 says: "For the grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth." Psalms 6:5 says, "For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?"
If you believe other than this which is plain scripture, you believe contrary to the Word of God.
And the rich man died and in hell lifted up his eyes,'being in torment'..... And Lazarus and Abraham.......

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#430125 Mar 27, 2013
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if the comma is placed correct Jesus is simply telling the new convert he is saved as of Today, not that they will be going to Heaven. Jesus did not go to Heaven, then why would he lie to the new convert. He didnt.
The dead sleep until the Second Coming, just as Lazarus did. Jesus said plainly "Lazarus sleeps". When Jesus called Lazarus He did not call Lazarus down from Heaven. He said "COME FORTH!" Not: "come down."
Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

"today you shall be in paradise with me"...there is no doubt as to " who" "where" nor to "when".

Join the Tiger Lily in showing what you perceive to be an error in the infallible Word of God...

Ames, IA

#430126 Mar 27, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>while you are paraphrasing this part of a song that david wrote, it still remains ONLY a song. yet you choose to beleive that when Jesus spoke of that rich man and a man NAMED Lazarus , is ONLY a Parable. and I like Oxbow dont beleive it is "just a parable". I also dont beleive like you do ,that Jesus is a liar, and doesnt mean what He says.
and I must admit that I am perplexed when Marge calls you a brother, when your belief and that of the other sda's on this forum believe that we who worship the Lord on Sundays Services have received the "mark of the beast", when that "mark" hasnt been given nor forced on anyone at this time of the Christian era.
I have never given credence to marge being very intelligent since she first popped onto this forum, but to the others on here you arent fooling anyone, and that includes Clay.
oh you know I Love you too you big dummy!

And you can't refute my posts:)

Seattle, WA

#430128 Mar 27, 2013
The new pope is the false prophet and Obama is THE ANTICHRIST.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#430129 Mar 27, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry to hear that Sherlayne. I am on insulin as well and have had several hypo's and was barely conscious.
You are right. Just as Lazarus awoke from death without even a mention of Heaven, it was just as if he awoke from a sleep.
I would hate to think my Mum and Dad are up there looking down on me here.
Lokk after yourself XXXX.
Mt 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

How can that be???? Moses died years ago!!! Has he been resurrected!!!! Or did he go to Heaven upon dying????

Cameron, MO

#430130 Mar 28, 2013
Clay wrote:
Please tell me where the Bible says those 27 Books are 'the Bible'?
You can't because it doesn't say it.
You're relying on the Catholic Church and her Sacred Tradition that bore forth the New Testament canon.
Then- in your foolish arrogance- you put a false title on it (sola scripture) and preceded to beat the Holy Catholic Church over the head.
This Easter Sunday, you'll be observing the day the Roman Catholic Church said to observe for Our Lords death and resurrection. Remember that.
You fools think the New Testament canon was written; passed out to the folks; and THEN the Catholic Church began.
Now I'll step aside as you fundies use the Bible from the Catholic Church to bludgeon each other with.

The Bible does not come from the RC. The Bible was not even published until the printing press, 1450. So the the Christians were using scriptures called books and these did not come from the RC. The Nazarenes were the first Christians found in the book of Acts and recorded by the historians at Antioch. Also Joseph went to the British isles. The Wldensans had scriptures. We know this because they later joined the Protestants. In fact the KJV and earlier Geneva 1560 Bibles have no Catholic mss. Instead the Protestants made use of the mss from the Orthodox after they fled west, 1453.
The 1st & 2nd century Christian letters show us what they considered scripture. Rome later accepted the canon already in use, then locked it in Latin and kept it from the common man; keeping them in superstition for 1260 years.

Short video on Bible manuscripts

The Forbidden Book

Cameron, MO

#430131 Mar 28, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
The world was predicted to end in 1844 with the Second Coming of Christ, by William Miller, a New England Baptist itinerant preacher. Miller's followers condemned all the churches of the day as apostate and “Babylon,” and warned Christians to come out of them. A great many did, and the “adventist” movement was born and grew rapidly (Melton, J. Gordon, Encyclopedia of American Religions, Vol. 2, pp. 21–22).
Christ did not appear in 1844.

Actually many around the world correctly counted the days of the 2300 prophecy of Dn 8:14. Only Miller and the South American Jesuit, La Cunza, were saying Jesus was to return. In this they destroyed the entire movement.
Today the prophecy is properly understood as when the heavenly sanctuary was cleansed.(the earthly temple was patterned after the one in heaven.)

However, most of the Bible doctrines of the SDA were common to all denominations of the time. It has been all the others who have swallowed heretical Scofield dispensationalism revolving around a future antichrist, instead of the AC in Rome!

Cameron, MO

#430132 Mar 28, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
Mt 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
How can that be???? Moses died years ago!!! Has he been resurrected!!!! Or did he go to Heaven upon dying????


Enoch, Elijah and Moses are still in their graves!

Since: Nov 08


#430133 Mar 28, 2013
LTM wrote:
"Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?"
Answer: Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the precise words,“I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30,“I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason.“… you, a mere man, claim to be God”(John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. Notice that Jesus does not deny His claim to be God. When Jesus declared,“I and the Father are one”(John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared,“I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).
John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity:“the Word was God” and “the Word became flesh”(John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us,“Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church—the church of God—with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus,“My Lord and my God”(John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus,“But about the Son He says,’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11, 14:33, 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
people doubted him because of the way he supposedly dressed,and his way of traveling (on a donkey),they expected a very royally dressed person in a royal looking type carriage like the emperors and kings used. people saw a vagabond more or less so they doubted him.considering who he claimed to be i guess you would expect that,but the hierarchy of the day that made people think that way,be cause they traveled royally.


#430134 Mar 28, 2013

100% PROOF Pope Francis is ANTICHRIST_______


Waverly, OH

#430135 Mar 28, 2013
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually many around the world correctly counted the days of the 2300 prophecy of Dn 8:14. Only Miller and the South American Jesuit, La Cunza, were saying Jesus was to return. In this they destroyed the entire movement.
Today the prophecy is properly understood as when the heavenly sanctuary was cleansed.(the earthly temple was patterned after the one in heaven.)
However, most of the Bible doctrines of the SDA were common to all denominations of the time. It has been all the others who have swallowed heretical Scofield dispensationalism revolving around a future antichrist, instead of the AC in Rome!
[your words}Today the prophecy is properly understood as when the heavenly sanctuary was cleansed

lets look at what this satanic witch said.What is the Sanctuary? Author: Ellen White
Publish date: Mar 17, 2009
Summary: The Great Controversy: Chapter 23
The scripture which above all others had been both the foundation and the central pillar of the advent faith was the declaration: "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." Daniel 8:14. These had been familiar words to all believers in the Lord's soon coming. By the lips of thousands was this prophecy repeated as the watchword of their faith. All felt that upon the events therein foretold depended their brightest expectations and most cherished hopes. These prophetic days had been shown to terminate in the autumn of 1844. In common with the rest of the Christian world, Adventists then held that the earth, or some portion of it, was the sanctuary. They understood that the cleansing of the sanctuary was the purification of the earth by the fires of the last great day, and that this would take place at the second advent. Hence the conclusion that Christ would return to the earth in 1844.

But the appointed time had passed, and the Lord had not appeared. The believers knew that God's word could not fail; their interpretation of the prophecy must be at fault; but where was the mistake? Many rashly cut the knot of difficulty by denying that the 2300 days ended in 1844. No reason could be given for this except that Christ had not come at the time they expected Him. They argued that if the prophetic days had ended in 1844, Christ would then have returned to cleanse the sanctuary by the purification of the earth by fire; and that since He had not come, the days could not have ended.

To accept this conclusion was to renounce the former reckoning of the prophetic periods.

firstand foremost. the heavenly Sanctuary was cleansed a long time ago when God tossed out the devil and his followers, so your statement is a bunch of bull that I wouldnt feed to my cows if I had any.

now this witch said that Jesus was going to come back and clean his earthly sanctuary, and we know this is false since the earthly sanctuary has never been rebuilt yet.

[most of the Bible doctrines of the SDA were common to all denominations of the time. It has been all the others who have swallowed heretical Scofield dispensationalism revolving around a future antichrist, instead of the AC in Rome].

sory to inform you, but schofield isnt the only person that stated that some day the anti christ will come in the FUTURE, and as you ahve been c orrectly told in the past, he will be of Jewish descent even tho he might rule in roma. so get your facts straight.the Jewish people would never accept anyone but a jewish person to rule over them, certainly not a catholic.

so even if your cult follows some of the doctrines of Christianity, that doesnt change the fact that you belong to a cult, AND UNLIKE THE FORUM DOOFUS, I AINT GONNA CALL YOU A BROTHER. I DONT BELONG TO SATAN LIKE YOU DO.

Since: Nov 08


#430136 Mar 28, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
I have heard commentaries from several people who said Paul was an old and tired man. I did not lie.
You still have not explained the point of a resurrection when souls are already in Heaven!!!!!
Or are you going to find someone who knows?
Paul:ends up spending at least five total years of his ministry in prison, is whipped five times and beaten three times with rods. He also survives a stoning and endures a shipwreck in the Mediterranean. He remained faithful to God to the very end of his life, where he experienced martyrdom at the hands of the Romans. Paul's impact on Christianity and Christian beliefs is truly enormous. He truly was a remarkable man used by God!..jethro:The Romans are beating and torturing jesus's apostles,and we are suppose to believe Jesus built is church in a country that beat his followers and are also responsible for Jesus' own death, but despite all that we are suppose to believe he built his church in this barbaric country at the time. for all we know, Jesus could be responsible for the decline of the roman empire,there is no history to prove it,but it could be possible.

San Antonio, TX

#430137 Mar 28, 2013
Only true church for child molesters!

Since: Nov 08


#430138 Mar 28, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
I have heard commentaries from several people who said Paul was an old and tired man. I did not lie.
You still have not explained the point of a resurrection when souls are already in Heaven!!!!!
Or are you going to find someone who knows?
According to some secular records (there is no description of Paul in The Bible), the apostle Paul wouldn't have won any "beauty contests." One second-century account described him as "short of stature, bald head, crooked legs, a large hooked nose with eyebrows that met in the middle." This manner of description seems to be corroborated by Paul's own admission that he was "unimpressive" (e.g. 2 Corinthians 10:10) not only in physical appearance, but also, very surprisingly, in speaking ability - certainly not "stage fright" (Paul boldly spoke before large crowds, and to high government officials who literally had the power of life and death over him) or in knowledge or vocabulary (he was a highly-educated Pharisee, and later, personally inspired by Jesus Christ), but with something that people didn't like, perhaps a voice that, although powerful in volume (the Scriptures make plain that the crowds could hear him) was of an unusual pitch or rate (a problem that another great servant of God had - Moses stuttered). And yet, in the eyes of God, and of Christians who base their Christian beliefs on the Holy Bible (of which Paul was an author, or a subject, of much of the New Testament), Paul was one of the greatest Christians that the world would ever know, a man "full of friendliness" as though he had the "face of an angel.

Since: Nov 08


#430139 Mar 28, 2013
Condemning the military dictatorship (including its human rights violations) was a taboo within the Catholic Church. While the upper echelons of the Church were supportive of the military Junta, the grassroots of the Church was firmly opposed to the imposition of military rule.

In 2005, human rights lawyer Myriam Bregman filed a criminal suit against Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, accusing him of conspiring with the military junta in the 1976 kidnapping of two Jesuit priests.

Several years later, the survivors of the “Dirty War” openly accused Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of complicity in the kidnapping of priests Francisco Jalics y Orlando Yorio as well six members of their parish,(El Mundo, 8 November 2010)

(Image Left: Jorge Mario Bergoglio and General Jorge Videla)

Bergoglio, who at the time was “Provincial” for the Society of Jesus, had ordered the two “Leftist” Jesuit priests and opponents of military rule “to leave their pastoral work”(i.e. they were fired) following divisions within the Society of Jesus regarding the role of the Catholic Church and its relations to the military Junta.

While the two priests Francisco Jalics y Orlando Yorio, kidnapped by the death squads in May 1976 were released five months later. after having been tortured, six other people associated with their parish kidnapped as part of the same operation were “disappeared”(desaparecidos). These included four teachers associated with the parish and two of their husbands.

Upon his release, Priest Orlando Yorio “accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over [including six other people] to the death squads … Jalics refused to discuss the complaint after moving into seclusion in a German monastery.”(Associated Press, March 13, 2013, emphasis added), "another great pope" .

Since: Nov 08


#430140 Mar 28, 2013
In the course of the trial initiated in 2005:

“Bergoglio [Pope Francis I] twice invoked his right under Argentine law to refuse to appear in open court, and when he eventually did testify in 2010, his answers were evasive”:“At least two cases directly involved Bergoglio. One examined the torture of two of his Jesuit priests — Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics — who were kidnapped in 1976 from the slums where they advocated liberation theology. Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads… by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work. Jalics refused to discuss it after moving into seclusion in a German monastery.”(Los Angeles Times, April 1, 2005)

The Secret Memorandum

[This section was added on March 19, 2013]

The military government acknowledged in a Secret Memo (see below) that Father Bergoglio had accused the two priests of having established contacts with the guerilleros, and for having disobeyed the orders of the Church hierarchy (Conflictos de obedecencia). It also states that the Jesuit order had demanded the dissolution of their group and that they had refused to abide by Bergoglio’s instructions.

The document acknowledges that the “arrest” of the two priests, who were taken to the torture and detention center at the Naval School of Mechanics, ESMA, was based on information transmitted by Father Bergoglio to the military authorities.(signed by Mr. Orcoyen)

(see below).

While a former member of the priests group had joined the insurgency, there was no evidence of the priests having contacts with the guerrilla movement.

Since: Nov 08


#430141 Mar 28, 2013
The Vatican under Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II played a central role in supporting the Argentinian military Junta.

Pio Laghi, the Vatican’s apostolic nuncio to Argentina admitted “turning a blind eye” to the torture and massacres.

Laghi had personal ties to members of the ruling military junta including General Jorge Videla and Admiral Emilio Eduardo Massera.

Since: Nov 08


#430142 Mar 28, 2013
The election of Pope Francis I has broad geopolitical implications for the entire Latin American region.

In the 1970s, Jorge Mario Bergoglio was supportive of a US sponsored military dictatorship.

The Catholic hierarchy in Argentina supported the military government. The Junta’s program of torture, assassinations and ‘disappearances” of thousands of political opponents was coordinated and supported by Washington under the CIA’s “Operation Condor”.

Wall Street’s interests were sustained through Jose Alfredo Martinez de Hoz’ office at the Ministry of Economy.

The Catholic Church in Latin America is politically influential. It also has a grip on public opinion. This is known and understood by the architects of US foreign policy as well as US intelligence.

In Latin America, where a number of governments are now challenging US hegemony, one would expect –given Bergoglio’s track record– that the new Pontiff Francis I as leader of the Catholic Church, will play de facto, a discrete “undercover” political role on behalf of Washington.

With Jorge Bergoglio, Pope Francis I in the Vatican –who faithfully served US interests in the heyday of General Jorge Videla and Admiral Emilio Massera– the hierarchy of the Catholic Church in Latin America can once again be effectively manipulated to undermine “progressive”(Leftist) governments, not only in Argentina (in relation to the government of Cristina Kirschner) but throughout the entire region, including Venezuela, Ecuador and Bolivia.

The instatement of “a pro-US pope” occurred a week following the death of president Hugo Chavez.

“Regime Change” at the Vatican

The US State Department routinely pressures members of the United Security Council with a view to influencing the vote pertaining to Security Council resolutions.

US covert operations and propaganda campaigns are routinely applied with a view to influencing national elections in different countries around the World.

Similarly, the CIA has a longstanding covert relationship with the Vatican.

Did the US government attempt to influence the outcome of the election of the new pontiff?

Firmly committed to serving US foreign policy interests in Latin America, Jorge Mario Bergoglio was Washington’s preferred candidate.

Were undercover pressures discretely exerted by Washington, within the Catholic Church, directly or indirectly, on the 115 cardinals who are members of the Vatican conclave?

Since: Nov 08


#430143 Mar 28, 2013
socci wrote:
Washington's Pope: Pope Francis and the South American Dirty Wars Pope
article & radio interview
interesting site you posted,i put up some of it's content on here,now i'm going to look for news sources from Latin america and see if any of them basically support the W.posts story.

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