Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 665486 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#427612 Mar 14, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
First and foremost, none of those verses you provide say scripture alone.?
.
It would be immaterial even if they did, until they had been demonstrated to be scriptural.
.
I still have not seen this, using scripture and nothing else.
.
Rob
Free Mind

Saint Petersburg, FL

#427613 Mar 14, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Sir, I'm not the one claiming Bible Alone. You are.
So where does the Bible teach Bible Alone? Where does Christ teach it and where do the Apostles teach it?
I don't care what Wayne Jackson teaches. Can you provide any documents that show Bible Alone was taught before the 16th century?
Better
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#427614 Mar 14, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know it wasn't in Pauls letter to the Laodiceans?
Or his original letter to the Corinthians?
It would be immaterial if it were.
.
Even if we were to find those texts tomorrow, they would not be scripture.
.
Rob

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427615 Mar 14, 2013
473 416
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
Say waaaaa?
Many have problems with what Jesus said in the Bible. Why does that surprise you?
In the age of modern medicine, are you not able to make yourself a eunuch as Jesus suggested?
You certainly reject Jesus' clear and concise advice on how to follow him perfectly.
It's a shell game for the make-it-easy-for-me, pretend Christians.
Here is another: Christ said we are to hate our families to follow Him:

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#427616 Mar 14, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
This could be asked of the RCC too.
Sicne the Bible, although in its early form, wasn't "created" until 325 CE, only loose texts were present.
How did the RCC manage without a Bible?
.
.
Apostolic Teaching?

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427617 Mar 14, 2013
476
MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
....Heaven, hell, prophecy, demon possession, sacrifice, initiation by baptism, BY A BAPTIZER, communion with God through a holy meal, monotheism, others with persons of God, immortality of the soul, eternal salvation, and many other "Christian" ideas all belonged to earlier, older Pagan faiths. They were simply part of ancient Mediterranean culture. Along with miracle working sons of God, born of a mortal woman, they were common elements of pre-Christian Pagan religion. Mithras had 'em. So did Dionysus, Attis, Osiris, and Orpheus. And more.
John Baptist story is just one in a long line of the same stories that came 1,000 years before.
Christianity is just the modern day rollout of what came before. The only reason it continues today is family-hand-me-down-tradition. INDOCTRINATION. If mom and dad are protestant/catholics so will be the kids, as it carries on to the next generation.
The wise shall inherit glory: but shame shall be the promotion of fools.

Bring fans and a lot of lemonade!!!!

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#427618 Mar 14, 2013
Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not really about the Gospel according to St. Matthew, "confrinting."
.
Pick any book, or any verse, and you will have the exact same slogical problem.
.
Pick a verse, any verse.
.
Now, using scripture alone, prove that the verse you picked is scripture.
.
Go ahead; I'm willing to wait.
.
As for the rest, you are trying to change he subject. We're talking about whether sola scriptura is logically tenable or not.
.
If you wish to discuss one of these other matters, make yourself a note. When we have finished that one, we can move on to something else; I'm game.
.
But I intend to maintain myseld willing to discuss this one (Sola Scriptura) for as long as others are willing to look at it carefully.
.
Rob
Jesus said ..very simply AND Peter and Paul preached the simplicity of the Gospel

JESUS SAID
Mar_16:16 --> He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Joh_10:9 I am the door:---> by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

JOEL THE PROPHET SAID
Act_2:21 And it shall come to pass, that----> whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be DELIVERED/saved.

___

The Apostle Peter preached

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles,

Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38 --> Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

again Peter preached

Act 3:19 ---> Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The Apostle Paul wrote.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom 10:9 --> That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.<--

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#427619 Mar 14, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Frankly I don't understand what you're asking.
You want me to prove Matthew is scripture?
Do you not believe it is? If you don't, perhaps the method to be taken is for you to prove it is not.
No, Saban. That is not the point.
.
Of course the Gospel of Matthew is sacred scripture.
.
But my reason for regarding it so is quite different than yours.
.
You can select any passage you want; it makes no difference.
.
But you, Pope Saban, have declared it scripture, on the basis of scripture alone.
.
I am simply asking you to show your work. Justify your decision, Pope Saban, that Matthew is to be accounted scripture, and do it using scripture alone.
.
OR ...
if you are NOT claiming to be Pope Saban, then show me the decision that Matthew (or ANY scriptural text) is scripture, and do it via scripture alone.
.
Since you seem a little confused as to what I am asking, let me try it this way.
.
I present you with 5 scrolls.
.
There are as follows:
.
The Gospel according to Saint Matthew.
The Gospel according to Saint Luke.
The Gospel according to Thomas.
The Gospel of Mary Magdeline.
The Letter of St. Paul to the Pheonicians.
.
Now, using SCRIPTURE ALONE, and NOTHING else, demonstrate that these texts are, or are not to be considered scripture. You can affirm or reject any or all of them, as you choose, but please show your justification for accepting or rejecting, using SCRIPTURE ALONE.
.
If you prefer, reject my examples above, and pick any one verse you want, and do it with the verse of your choosing.
.
This really is foundational to Sola Scriptura, so please give it your best attention.
.
Rob
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#427620 Mar 14, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
The Catholic Church doesn't interpret Matthew any different today then when they put it in the Bible.
If the discussion is Matthew 16:16-19:

16. the confession that Jesus is the son of God is the rock upon which he will build his church.

17. He will confess those who confess him (Matt. 10:32-33)
Note the parallel:
'Christ, Son of God'
and
'Peter, son of John'(the meaning of Bar-Jonah)

18. the word [Petros] means 'stone'(John 1:42); but the Greek text itself dispels any possibility of Peter's having been the rock upon which Jesus built the church. Christ did not build the church upon Peter.
The rock upon which Christ proposed to build the church is not the same kind of 'rock' that constitutes the name of Peter. There are several differences, emphasizing the impossibility of their being under any conditions IDENTICAL.
The words 'Peter' & 'rock' as used in vs. 18 are translated from two different Greek words: Petros and Petra. Petros is 6 letters, is masculine gender and means 'pebble'; Petra is 5 letters is feminine gender and means 'LEDGE'. The *similarity* of the words does not imply identical meaning.
What is indeed the 'ROCK' upon which Christ proposed to build the church?
It is the supreme fact of faith just confessed by Peter, namely, that Jesus is the son of the living God.

19. God made him (and later the others) not the foundation, but the door-opener of the kingdom. To have made him both the foundation and the porter of the same building would have been a gross abuse of a metaphor.
Also, the promise emphatically delivered to Peter here, was also the property of the 12 & NOT Peter's exclusively (Matt. 18:18).
'Bind' & 'Loose' refer to the power of deciding what is lawful or unlawful to be done in the church or what was orthodox or unorthodox to be believed. That power was (and is) exercised by all the apostles, and the NT is the instrument by which that binding and loosening are effected.
A certain preeminence DID pertain to Peter:
1. He preached the 1st gospel sermon (Acts 2:14)
2. He unlocked the secret of the Davidic kingdom (Acts 2:31)
3. He unlocked the secret of HOW people enter the kingdom (Acts 2:38)
4. He unlocked the door of faith to the Gentiles (Acts 10:1)
5. He unlocked the door of return for the backsliders (Acts 8:13, 22)
6. He unlocked the mystery of the new name (1 Peter 4:16)
7. He expounded the mystery of the new birth (1 Pet. 3:21)
8. He revealed the ultimate fate of the earth (2 Pet. 3:11-13)

These options exercised by Peter might be said to be his use of the keys, solving, unlocking, and revealing great mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#427621 Mar 14, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus said ..very simply AND Peter and Paul preached the simplicity of the Gospel
JESUS SAID
Mar_16:16 --> He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Joh_10:9 I am the door:---> by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
JOEL THE PROPHET SAID
Act_2:21 And it shall come to pass, that----> whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be DELIVERED/saved.
___
The Apostle Peter preached
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles,
Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 --> Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
again Peter preached
Act 3:19 ---> Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
The Apostle Paul wrote.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 --> That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.<--
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Okay.

Now, using scripture alone, prove that the scriptures you cited should be considered scripture.
.
Personally, I would just pick one, such as Rom 10.11, since it mentions scripture directly. One verse will suffice to demonstrate.
.
Can you, using SCRIPTURE ALONE, demonstrate that Rom 10.11 ought to be accounted scripture?
.
Rob
Free Mind

Saint Petersburg, FL

#427622 Mar 14, 2013
Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be immaterial if it were.
.
Even if we were to find those texts tomorrow, they would not be scripture.
.
Rob
Yes, all immaterial. Maintain the focus.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#427623 Mar 14, 2013
Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Saban. That is not the point.
.
Of course the Gospel of Matthew is sacred scripture.
.
But my reason for regarding it so is quite different than yours.
.
You can select any passage you want; it makes no difference.
.
But you, Pope Saban, have declared it scripture, on the basis of scripture alone.
.
I am simply asking you to show your work. Justify your decision, Pope Saban, that Matthew is to be accounted scripture, and do it using scripture alone.
.
OR ...
if you are NOT claiming to be Pope Saban, then show me the decision that Matthew (or ANY scriptural text) is scripture, and do it via scripture alone.
.
Since you seem a little confused as to what I am asking, let me try it this way.
.
I present you with 5 scrolls.
.
There are as follows:
.
The Gospel according to Saint Matthew.
The Gospel according to Saint Luke.
The Gospel according to Thomas.
The Gospel of Mary Magdeline.
The Letter of St. Paul to the Pheonicians.
.
Now, using SCRIPTURE ALONE, and NOTHING else, demonstrate that these texts are, or are not to be considered scripture. You can affirm or reject any or all of them, as you choose, but please show your justification for accepting or rejecting, using SCRIPTURE ALONE.
.
If you prefer, reject my examples above, and pick any one verse you want, and do it with the verse of your choosing.
.
This really is foundational to Sola Scriptura, so please give it your best attention.
.
Rob
First, could you give me a scriptural example for the word Pope? I hear that word/title used often and am very confused by you calling me a pope.

Secondly, you are asking me to reprove that Matthew is actually inspired scripture? How might I justify this?
Quickly I would justify it by the identical nature of its contents to the other gospels which all bring validity to each other. I would also judge their validity by the quotations and references other writers would reference back to the gospel writers.

Thirdly,*I* have faith in a God that could give me the words he would have me to hear and faith that this God of creation could create a work that could be followed by anyone that picked it up and put the study of its teachings to use. I do NOT believe they would have to have a mediator between them and the Bible and their heavenly journey other than Jesus Christ Himself.

Do you actually think a person in such a circumstance would need a Priest and a Cathedral and all of the opulence surrounding the man-made version of the mediator which in and of itself highlights the polar opposite of the life our true mediator, the Christ, lived?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#427624 Mar 14, 2013
Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay.
Now, using scripture alone, prove that the scriptures you cited should be considered scripture.
.
Personally, I would just pick one, such as Rom 10.11, since it mentions scripture directly. One verse will suffice to demonstrate.
.
Can you, using SCRIPTURE ALONE, demonstrate that Rom 10.11 ought to be accounted scripture?
.
Rob
I would think my faith that the Holy Spirit could supply my needs within God's Holy Words to man would be sufficient.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#427625 Mar 14, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus said ..very simply AND Peter and Paul preached the simplicity of the Gospel
JESUS SAID
Mar_16:16 --> He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Joh_10:9 I am the door:---> by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
JOEL THE PROPHET SAID
Act_2:21 And it shall come to pass, that----> whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be DELIVERED/saved.
___
The Apostle Peter preached
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles,
Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 --> Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
again Peter preached
Act 3:19 ---> Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
The Apostle Paul wrote.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 --> That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.<--
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
THE CALISTHENICS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS MOOT...

UNNECESSARY..

THE PARTITION SET BY ROME ...CALLED THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

(like the partition that existed between the Jews and the Gentiles)

PLACING THEMSELVES BETWEEN GOD... AND THOSE THAT CHRIST EXTENDED HIS

GRACE TO/DIED FOR...IS NOT SCRIPTURAL..

GOD DESTROYED THE PARTITION BETWEEN THE JEWS AND GENTILES

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

GOD DID NOT CREATE ANOTHER PARTITION SUCH AS THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH HAVE ATTEMPTED TO SET UP BETWEEN THEMSELVES AND THE REST OF HIS CHURCH ON EARTH.

THERE IS NO EXCLUSIVITY IN GOD'S KINGDOM..

The Holy Spirit is the one that is the one that operates the Church of which Jesus is the Head...

No corruptible man qualifies.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#427626 Mar 14, 2013
Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay.
.
You plan to quote scripture to prove "Sola Scriptura."
Specifically, Romans 1:16;
II Timothy 3:16-17;
II Peter 1:19-21; 3:15-16
.
Okay.
.
We'll take these as a starting point.
.
Using SCRIPTURE ALONE, demonstrate that Romans, II Timothy, and II Peter are to be considered scripture.
.
I'll wait.
.
Rob
Why are you asking me to prove true something you already believe to be true. Don't you believe these verses to be scripture or do you believe my belief that they are inspired scripture to be false?
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#427627 Mar 14, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
First, could you give me a scriptural example for the word Pope? I hear that word/title used often and am very confused by you calling me a pope.
Secondly, you are asking me to reprove that Matthew is actually inspired scripture? How might I justify this?
Quickly I would justify it by the identical nature of its contents to the other gospels which all bring validity to each other. I would also judge their validity by the quotations and references other writers would reference back to the gospel writers.
Thirdly,*I* have faith in a God that could give me the words he would have me to hear and faith that this God of creation could create a work that could be followed by anyone that picked it up and put the study of its teachings to use. I do NOT believe they would have to have a mediator between them and the Bible and their heavenly journey other than Jesus Christ Himself.
Do you actually think a person in such a circumstance would need a Priest and a Cathedral and all of the opulence surrounding the man-made version of the mediator which in and of itself highlights the polar opposite of the life our true mediator, the Christ, lived?
Whether I think any of that is tenable is immaterial, since it has nothing to do with demonstating that a verse is scriptural.
.
To your first point, I was being a bit silly. You seem to be operating on your own authority, which is what you accuse the pope of doing. Please forgive my silliness.
.
The word "pope" is not to be found in scripture, at least not in its meaning in Catholic usage as leader of the Church. Not there. Won't find it.
.
Now, back to the subject at hand. Sola Scriptura.
.
"Quickly I would justify it by the identical nature of its contents to the other gospels which all bring validity to each other. I would also judge their validity by the quotations and references other writers would reference back to the gospel writers."

Okay. So you would justify Matthew by comparing it to John, Mark, and Luke.
.
Now your task is to prove that THOSE texts are scripture, using SCRIPTURE ALONE.
.
"Thirdly,*I* have faith in a God that could give me the words he would have me to hear and faith that this God of creation could create a work that could be followed by anyone that picked it up and put the study of its teachings to use. I do NOT believe they would have to have a mediator between them and the Bible and their heavenly journey other than Jesus Christ Himself."
.
So, you are using your faith to demonstrate that those texts are scripture.
.
Is your faith something that is part of you, or does yor faith itself reside in the scripture?(I don't mean "Is is BASED on scripture?" I mean the object, your faith ... where is it? I would have said it is part of your spirit, or you soull, or your brain, or a combination of all three. I doubt you would hold there are 23 copies of your faith at the local Dollar Tree, and that I can procure three of "your faith" for $3.00
.
Assuming you mean something intrinsic to you, is that not external to scripture? It seems a violation of Sola Scriptura to appeal to your faith to demonstrate that a text is scriptural.
.
Looks like I may get short of characters. ayou ask if I believe that a mediator between humanity and the scriptures is necessary. Not really. I think we need to be very careful, and that authority to definitively interpret the scriptures must reside somewhere, but that does not mean that the scriptures do not communicate to each of us individually and directly, because in fact they can and do.
.
But that still does not prove that any text is scripture, and certainly not by Scripture Alone. That would be individual experience, and purely subjective.
.
So ... I think that leave us with showing that Mark, John, and Luke are scripture (and Thomas is not, I think) and doing this by scripture alone, with nothing else to help. No personal belief, no personal experience.
.
SCRIPTURE ALONE.
.
Can You?

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#427629 Mar 14, 2013
who="Robert Dye"
Okay.
Now, using scripture alone, prove that the scriptures you cited should be considered scripture.
.
Personally, I would just pick one, such as Rom 10.11, since it mentions scripture directly. One verse will suffice to demonstrate.
.
Can you, using SCRIPTURE ALONE, demonstrate that Rom 10.11 ought to be accounted scripture?
.
Rob

__________

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

(1)Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

(2)Isa 49:23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

(3)Jer 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

Isaiah and Jeremiah think so.
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#427630 Mar 14, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you asking me to prove true something you already believe to be true. Don't you believe these verses to be scripture or do you believe my belief that they are inspired scripture to be false?
.
The question at hand is whether or not Sola Scriptura is tenable.
.
Demonstrating which books are to be considered scripture is an essential task in any faith.
.
If you are going to hold that all our beliefs ought to be based on Scripture Alone, then you will have to demonstrate that a text is or is not scripture, using ONLY scripture.
.
I don't see how it can be done without using a circular argument, but if you can enlighten me otherwise, I would be delighted to see it.
.
Rob

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#427631 Mar 14, 2013
Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay.
Now, using scripture alone, prove that the scriptures you cited should be considered scripture.
.
Personally, I would just pick one, such as Rom 10.11, since it mentions scripture directly. One verse will suffice to demonstrate.
.
Can you, using SCRIPTURE ALONE, demonstrate that Rom 10.11 ought to be accounted scripture?
.
Rob
~~~

IN REFERENCE TO SCRIPTURE

Jesus said

Joh 5:39 --> Search the -->scriptures;<--

--> SCRIPTURES<-- defined in Greek

G1124
&#947;&#961;&#945; &#966;&#951;&#769;
graphe&#772;
graf-ay'
From G1125; a document, that is, holy Writ (or its contents or a statement in it):- scripture.

for in them ye think ye have eternal life:

and

they are they which testify of me.<--


Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Joh 5:41 I receive not honor from men.


Joh 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another, and seek not the honor that cometh from God only?


YOU ROMAN CATHOLICS HONOR YOU HOLY FATHERS AND CALL JESUS A LIAR..
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#427632 Mar 14, 2013
THE PRE-EMINENCE OF PETER

The Scriptures make it clear that, whatever preeminence was enjoyed by Peter, it was well within the framework of his stature as a fellow apostle, and not, as some affirm, as a president over the apostles. Thus:

1. There is not one throne in Christ's kingdom, but twelve thrones (Matthew 19:28).

2. The Holy City that comes down out of heaven does not have merely one foundation, engraved with Peter's name, but twelve foundations, engraved with the names of the Twelve (Revelation 21:14).

3. Peter himself included the rest of the apostles when he admonished men to heed the commandment of Christ,'through your apostles'(2 Peter 3:2).

4. Even when Peter opened the gates of the kingdom of heaven on the day of Pentecost, he did so, not alone, but 'standing up with the eleven'(Acts 2:14).

5. When the Jewish high priest moved against the church, he moved not against Peter only, but against the Twelve (Acts 5:17-19).

6. Peter's authority was actually equaled by that of Paul (Galatians 2:7,8).

7. Peter's dignity was, on occasion, made secondary to that of the Twelve, as when, for instance, he was 'sent' by the Twelve as a messenger (Acts 8:14).

8. Peter's dignity was no greater than that of James (Galatians 2:9) and, in fact, James is mentioned first.

All of the plain words and necessary inferences of the New Testament are at variance with any supposition that Peter's preeminence contained the slightest vestiges of any authority not conferred upon the other apostles also.

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