Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 548,737
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Clay

Saint Paul, MN

#427051 Mar 11, 2013
Nice article about the election of the next Pope:

foxnews.com/opinion/2013/03/11/looking-for-jo...

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427052 Mar 11, 2013
034
StarC wrote:
Why do Catholics pray to Mary and the saints when Sacred Scripture states that there is one Mediator between God and man – Christ Jesus?(1 Tim. 2:5).
When Catholics ask Mary to pray for them and the
other saints in Heaven they are not bypassing
Christ, whom they acknowledge as the sole Mediator
between God and man. They are going to Christ
through Mary and the other saints. They are
asking Mary and other saints to intercede for them
before the throne of Christ in Heaven. "For the
continual prayer of a just man availeth much." (James 5:16). How much more availing is the unceasing prayer of the sinless Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ! St. Paul asked his fellow Christians to intercede for him: "Brethren, pray for us." (2 Thess. 3:1). And again: "I beseech you therefore, brethren, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the charity of the Holy Ghost, that you help me in your prayers for me to God ..." (Rom. 15:30). Christ must particularly approve of our going to Him through Mary, His Blessed Mother, because He chose to come to us through her. And at Cana, He performed His first miracle after a word from His Mother.(John 2:2-11).
It is clear in Sacred Scripture that the saints in
Heaven will intercede for us before the throne of
Christ if they are petitioned in prayer (Apoc. or
Rev. 8:3-4), and it is clear in the records of
primitive Christianity that the first Christians
eagerly sought their intercession. Wrote St. John
Chrysostom in the fourth century: "When thou
perceivest that God is chastening thee, fly not to
His enemies, but to His friends, the martyrs, the saints, and those who were pleasing to Him, and who have great power."
If the saints have such power with God, how much more His own Mother."
Nonsense!!!! Quoting Scripture at random that has nothing to do with the Bible teaching, as you say, to pray to Mary and the dead "Saints" is ludicrous to say the least...

Christ, from Scripture, taught us to pray to God the Father, in His name...

Show me Scripture that says Christ said "When you pray, pray to Mary, my Mother"....or Pray to the "Saints"...You can't because it is not in there....

Bottom line....you are following teachings not based on Scripture...but...to a Catholic...it don't matter...da pope said it...and that's that!!!!
Clay

Saint Paul, MN

#427053 Mar 11, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
033
<quoted text>
Any way you cut it....You are calling God ignorant because he gets jealous when He sees an image of Mary holding the crucified Christ!!!!
Shame on you!!!!!
Yeah.

You are falsely accusing someone of calling God ignorant. That's the only thing going on here, Ox.
you guys are the boldest, bravest, arrogant humans i ever met.
Im not sure why you think its ok to play around with words like that. You usually do it with sacred scripture. Now you're doing it to falsely accuse someone.
Do you think God doesn't see you playing stupid?
You must..

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427054 Mar 11, 2013
039
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
Saints are mediators Mary is a mediator.
In the way you explain Mary, why bother with the saints?
Try reason and logic -- no all-knowing Supreme being would possibly be swayed by a lesser spirit. If any mediator affected that Supreme Being's judgement, then that Supreme being is not.
Mary is barely mentioned in the Bible and was not mentioned once in the first Nicene Creed. But after the RCC became the official religion, Mary was needed to replace Isis and other female gods.
This mediator thing is now dated and absurd.
They ignore...completely... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

They have added the Priest, Mary and all the "Saints"....so they got lots of mediators!!!!!

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427055 Mar 11, 2013
048
jethro8 wrote:
4 hrs ago i posted a few questions concerning god being just there the uncreated creator,i posted passages the refute that,and no one replied to prove i was wrong in what i posted,that tells me,that as i have been saying all along that the bible is a book of unprovable man created over embelished stories,that have no authenticity.
You are vomiting trash...go hiss some place else...please....
Free Mind

Wesley Chapel, FL

#427056 Mar 11, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
What em I suppose to say? you called me a liar, when i nevereven said 80% of our Popes were from Africa. Then you made fun of me.
Here look at Benedict the 15th
wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XV
He does not look like a white guy. I confess.'Dark skin' is probably too steep though.
If you went to Our Lady of Guadalupe Church on Saint Paul's West side (mn), you would see more darker depictions of Christ, Mary and the Apostles. That's because the Church is mostly made up of Mexicans. Other Catholic Church's around the world tend to depict their images that more reflect their community. Its human nature.
Clay wrote -- "you called me a liar, when i never even said 80% of our Popes were from Africa."

1.. Show me the post where I called you a liar.

2.. Show me a post where I said you wrote that 80% of Popes were from Africa.

Hint... those posts don't exist.

Clay... your spiritual superiority has made you into a fool.

Now show me the post #'s, because inspite of what you think, I can't have them removed.

You need help, and maybe the delusion that your church sells is perfect for you. But here we can back up our claims with facts. This is not the place for deluded fools to validate their delusions.

Sorry to sound so harsh. Show me the posts where I wrote what you claim and I will gladly apologize. Otherwise, this is the real world, not your RCC La La Land.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427057 Mar 11, 2013
053 033
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah.
You are falsely accusing someone of calling God ignorant. That's the only thing going on here, Ox.
you guys are the boldest, bravest, arrogant humans i ever met.
Im not sure why you think its ok to play around with words like that. You usually do it with sacred scripture. Now you're doing it to falsely accuse someone.
Do you think God doesn't see you playing stupid?
You must..
Typical of Catholics...deny the truth when it is staring them in the face...then attack whomever said it!!!
Clay

Saint Paul, MN

#427058 Mar 11, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
034
<quoted text>
Nonsense!!!! Quoting Scripture at random that has nothing to do with the Bible teaching, as you say, to pray to Mary and the dead "Saints" is ludicrous to say the least...
Christ, from Scripture, taught us to pray to God the Father, in His name...
Show me Scripture that says Christ said "When you pray, pray to Mary, my Mother"....or Pray to the "Saints"...You can't because it is not in there....
Bottom line....you are following teachings not based on Scripture...but...to a Catholic...it don't matter...da pope said it...and that's that!!!!
Its funny how none of you guys can show where Christ said everything about His Ministry is found in the NT. Yet you demand it be.
Weird.

What happened to the normal Protestants? Man, a hundred yrs ago there were just the Lutherans and Methodist type. Now, its a bunch of complete idiots who are off the wall fundie. They changed almost every thing about Christianity - and continue to change.

We had a dual Catholic/Lutheran fish fry last Fri for lent. It was great fellowship between Protestants and Catholics.
I think Luther and Calvin would puke their guts out if they could've foresaw the disaster they created, by opening the door to sola scriptura.
A bunch of nomads lost in their world of private Bible interpretations, I tell ya!
Free Mind

Wesley Chapel, FL

#427059 Mar 11, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
048
<quoted text>
You are vomiting trash...go hiss some place else...please....
Of course, if you knew he was wrong or could refute with reason, there'd be no need to call names.
Free Mind

Wesley Chapel, FL

#427060 Mar 11, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
039
<quoted text>
They ignore...completely... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
They have added the Priest, Mary and all the "Saints"....so they got lots of mediators!!!!!
Of course they ignore the parts of the Bible with which they disagree.

Who doesn't?
guest

United States

#427061 Mar 11, 2013
Clay wrote:
guest
-
Yes, we know Paul wrote a couple more letters.
-
Yes, common sense tells us not every detail of Christ's life was recorded for posterity. One would have to be a complete fool not to recognize that.
-
But if you truly love Jesus Christ, you will listen to him - rather than listening to man. One should listen to and pay heed to the words Jesus said that WERE recorded. If you can't obey a direct command from Jesus ... then why even worry about stuff that no longer exists - because it was NOT recorded and preserved by Holy Spirit?
-
I would think a person who prizes common sense would would realize God has left us adequate information, and if we listen to it - and not ADD to it - it is sufficient.
-
When you blatantly ignore Jesus' words that WERE RECORDED, "Call no man father..." you treat him with contempt!... so why even bother obsessing about what was NOT recorded or preserved?
-
You should know this: ALL that WAS preserved, by God's Holy Spirit, is adequate for the Christian believer. True Christians realize this, and listen to Christ.
-
Jesus said it - he meant it. and he said it for a reason. You ignore his direct command when you call a priest 'Father'.
-
-
Clay wrote:
We don't ignore "call no man Father". You do. You are applying your own ideology to it and putting a meaning behind Our Lords words which He did not intend for.

Don't you wonder why very little of you protestants (or protestants of the original protestants) have an issue with this?

Normal people see why Jesus said it and who He said it towards. They were not His Apostles or Bishops and Priests.

You're isolating this sentence for your own personal vendetta against the Holy Catholic Church.

This is why we rely heavily on the sacred tradition of the Church and the writings of the Apostolic fathers. Because common sense tells us the Apostles explained this stuff already. If you wanna really know what was taught, go to the Church fathers writings.
If you want some dudes opinion - 2,000 yrs later on what was taught, go to Confrint and 50,000 other private Popes. I'll take Ignatius of Antioch or Clement of Rome before Pat Robertson any day.
-
"Call no man you father." JESUS said it, I believe it.
-
"call priests father." POPE said it, I REFUSE to believe it.
-
It's like a STOP SIGN and NOT open to *private* interpretation - and yet ... your church's popes INSIST on being called Father and you say church *tradition* trumps Jesus' direct commands.
-
yeah. right. Church *tradition* is what got the church into the mess it's in now. For hundreds of years the *tradition* of the church was to PROTECT PEDOPHILE PRIESTS - that is until the mess got so big and vast and WORLD WIDE that secular authorities had to step in - because it was OBVIOUS that your leaders would NOT DO A THING TO STOP IT. But, instead (as per church 'tradition') they moved the priests to new 'hunting grounds'.
-
THERE is your CHURCH TRADITION IN ACTION! No wonder Jesus had no use for "traditions of men" ...
-
http://niv.scripturetext.com/mark/7.htm

6 He replied,“Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“&#8239;‘These people honor me with their lips,

but their hearts are far from me.

7 They worship me in vain;

their teachings are merely human rules.’

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”
-
There! I'm *hiding behind* scripture again! I'm *hiding behind* ANOTHER DIRECT QUOTE of JESUS!
-
When your very leaders violate a DIRECT COMMAND FROM JESUS HIMSELF, "Call no man your Father .." it's easy to see how they can warp out of all rational recognition every other thing that JESUS SAID which disagrees with them.
-
The concept of following Jesus (rather than men) is so foreign to you, that even when faced with direct quotes from Jesus himself .. you defy the Son of God and submit to traditions of men.
guest

United States

#427062 Mar 11, 2013
::quote correction::
guest wrote:

-
Yes, we know Paul wrote a couple more letters.
-
Yes, common sense tells us not every detail of Christ's life was recorded for posterity. One would have to be a complete fool not to recognize that.
-
But if you truly love Jesus Christ, you will listen to him - rather than listening to man. One should listen to and pay heed to the words Jesus said that WERE recorded. If you can't obey a direct command from Jesus ... then why even worry about stuff that no longer exists - because it was NOT recorded and preserved by Holy Spirit?
-
I would think a person who prizes common sense would would realize God has left us adequate information, and if we listen to it - and not ADD to it - it is sufficient.
-
When you blatantly ignore Jesus' words that WERE RECORDED, "Call no man father..." you treat him with contempt!... so why even bother obsessing about what was NOT recorded or preserved?
-
You should know this: ALL that WAS preserved, by God's Holy Spirit, is adequate for the Christian believer. True Christians realize this, and listen to Christ.
-
Jesus said it - he meant it. and he said it for a reason. You ignore his direct command when you call a priest 'Father'.
-
-
Clay wrote:
We don't ignore "call no man Father". You do. You are applying your own ideology to it and putting a meaning behind Our Lords words which He did not intend for.

Don't you wonder why very little of you protestants (or protestants of the original protestants) have an issue with this?

Normal people see why Jesus said it and who He said it towards. They were not His Apostles or Bishops and Priests.

You're isolating this sentence for your own personal vendetta against the Holy Catholic Church.

This is why we rely heavily on the sacred tradition of the Church and the writings of the Apostolic fathers. Because common sense tells us the Apostles explained this stuff already. If you wanna really know what was taught, go to the Church fathers writings.
If you want some dudes opinion - 2,000 yrs later on what was taught, go to Confrint and 50,000 other private Popes. I'll take Ignatius of Antioch or Clement of Rome before Pat Robertson any day.
-
"Call no man you father." JESUS said it, I believe it.
-
"call priests father." POPE said it, I REFUSE to believe it.
-
It's like a STOP SIGN and NOT open to *private* interpretation - and yet ... your church's popes INSIST on being called Father and you say church *tradition* trumps Jesus' direct commands.
-
yeah. right. Church *tradition* is what got the church into the mess it's in now. For hundreds of years the *tradition* of the church was to PROTECT PEDOPHILE PRIESTS - that is until the mess got so big and vast and WORLD WIDE that secular authorities had to step in - because it was OBVIOUS that your leaders would NOT DO A THING TO STOP IT. But, instead (as per church 'tradition') they moved the priests to new 'hunting grounds'.
-
THERE is your CHURCH TRADITION IN ACTION! No wonder Jesus had no use for "traditions of men" ...
-
http://niv.scripturetext.com/mark/7.htm

6 He replied,“Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“&#8239;‘These people honor me with their lips,

but their hearts are far from me.

7 They worship me in vain;

their teachings are merely human rules.’

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”
-
There! I'm *hiding behind* scripture again! I'm *hiding behind* ANOTHER DIRECT QUOTE of JESUS!
-
When your very leaders violate a DIRECT COMMAND FROM JESUS HIMSELF, "Call no man your Father .." it's easy to see how they can warp out of all rational recognition every other thing that JESUS SAID which disagrees with them.
-
The concept of following Jesus (rather than men) is so foreign to you, that even when faced with direct quotes from Jesus himself .. you defy the Son of God and submit to traditions of men.
Fun Facts

Saginaw, MI

#427063 Mar 11, 2013
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
So again, how does Mary tell us we are saved?
At Fatima, Mary says -- "You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pope Pius XI."
Devotion or worship? What does it matter, because she tells us if it's not enough, millions will die in WW2.
It's absurd. Devotion or else? Worship or else?n What's the difference?
This is zero difference. MARY CLEARLY SAYS DEVOTION TO HER SAVES SOULS.
Don't believe me. Believe the Catholic Church and every Pope since 1917.
Oops, I forgot the spin --- you are not "required" to believe it or to trust every Pope since 1917.
You may have overlooked...
"While coming closer to us, the Angel said:‘Do not fear! I am the Angel of Peace. Pray with me.’ And kneeling on the earth, he bent his forehead to the ground. Prompted by a supernatural movement, we imitated him and repeated the words which we heard him pronounce:‘My God, I believe in Thee, I adore Thee, I hope in Thee and I love Thee. I ask pardon for all those who do not believe in Thee, do not adore Thee, do not hope in Thee and do not love Thee.’
http://www.fatima.org/essentials/facts/1916ap...

‘When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are most in need.’
http://www.fatima.org/essentials/facts/1917ap...

Questions?
http://avemariaradio.net/catholic-online-radi...
Clay

Saint Paul, MN

#427064 Mar 11, 2013
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
Clay wrote -- "you called me a liar, when i never even said 80% of our Popes were from Africa."
1.. Show me the post where I called you a liar.
2.. Show me a post where I said you wrote that 80% of Popes were from Africa.
Hint... those posts don't exist.
Clay... your spiritual superiority has made you into a fool.
Now show me the post #'s, because inspite of what you think, I can't have them removed.
You need help, and maybe the delusion that your church sells is perfect for you. But here we can back up our claims with facts. This is not the place for deluded fools to validate their delusions.
Sorry to sound so harsh. Show me the posts where I wrote what you claim and I will gladly apologize. Otherwise, this is the real world, not your RCC La La Land.
Post 426849 Free: "Why Clay, Why? Why are you not comfortable with the reality of your faith, so you are forced to lie"

same post 42689 Free: "However, only one of these may have been from African decent...one Pope,(maybe) does not equal 80%. Get a grip clay"

(keep in mind i never said 80% of our Popes were from Africa)

post 425865 Free: "yet clay claims that 80% of Popes or so"

post 426970 Free: "Now you should understand why i call you out on your own deceptions - like 80% of our Popes were dark skinned of African decent" "Im here for you, stop doing what you say others are doing (lying)"

KEEP in MIND I NEVER SAID 80% of OUR POPES WERE OF AFRICAN DECENT! Thats sill to even think that.

post 426842 I said this: "I believe about 80% of our Popes had dark skin. We already had an African Pope but I forgot his name, it was like a thousand yrs ago"

Thats all I said there bud. And I still stand by it. Allot of our Popes had dark skin. They were full blooded Italian.

Ya know, i feel like im stooping to a level unbecoming of me. Its way to childish and I don't feel comfortable as an adult playing these stupid games.
**here, my hand is out. shake
guest

United States

#427065 Mar 11, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
034

Nonsense!!!! Quoting Scripture at random that has nothing to do with the Bible teaching, as you say, to pray to Mary and the dead "Saints" is ludicrous to say the least...
Christ, from Scripture, taught us to pray to God the Father, in His name...
Show me Scripture that says Christ said "When you pray, pray to Mary, my Mother"....or Pray to the "Saints"...You can't because it is not in there....
Bottom line....you are following teachings not based on Scripture...but...to a Catholic...it don't matter...da pope said it...and that's that!!!!
-
-
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Its funny how none of you guys can show where Christ said everything about His Ministry is found in the NT. Yet you demand it be.
Weird

What happened to the normal Protestants? Man, a hundred yrs ago there were just the Lutherans and Methodist type. Now, its a bunch of complete idiots who are off the wall fundie. They changed almost every thing about Christianity - and continue to change.

We had a dual Catholic/Lutheran fish fry last Fri for lent. It was great fellowship between Protestants and Catholics.
I think Luther and Calvin would puke their guts out if they could've foresaw the disaster they created, by opening the door to sola scriptura.

A bunch of nomads lost in their world of private Bible interpretations, I tell ya!
-
you world of *private Bible interpretations* is by "proxy" through the pope and SUBJECT TO CHANGE with every new pope ...
-
go figure.
Clay

Saint Paul, MN

#427066 Mar 11, 2013
guest wrote:
::quote correction::
<quoted text>
-
-
<quoted text>
-
"Call no man you father." JESUS said it, I believe it.
-
"call priests father." POPE said it, I REFUSE to believe it.
-
It's like a STOP SIGN and NOT open to *private* interpretation - and yet ... your church's popes INSIST on being called Father and you say church *tradition* trumps Jesus' direct commands.
-
yeah. right. Church *tradition* is what got the church into the mess it's in now. For hundreds of years the *tradition* of the church was to PROTECT PEDOPHILE PRIESTS - that is until the mess got so big and vast and WORLD WIDE that secular authorities had to step in - because it was OBVIOUS that your leaders would NOT DO A THING TO STOP IT. But, instead (as per church 'tradition') they moved the priests to new 'hunting grounds'.
-
THERE is your CHURCH TRADITION IN ACTION! No wonder Jesus had no use for "traditions of men" ...
-
<quoted text>
-
There! I'm *hiding behind* scripture again! I'm *hiding behind* ANOTHER DIRECT QUOTE of JESUS!
-
When your very leaders violate a DIRECT COMMAND FROM JESUS HIMSELF, "Call no man your Father .." it's easy to see how they can warp out of all rational recognition every other thing that JESUS SAID which disagrees with them.
-
The concept of following Jesus (rather than men) is so foreign to you, that even when faced with direct quotes from Jesus himself .. you defy the Son of God and submit to traditions of men.
Guest, when Paul called Timothy 'his son', it would have been appropiate and is STILL appropiate to call him FATHER in return. This is why we called Priests, father from the earliest possible inception of the Church, because the first Christians called the Apostles,'father'.
Fast forward 2,000 yrs and some radical fundies snatched a line from the Bible and ran with it.....
oh well

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427067 Mar 11, 2013
058 034
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Its funny how none of you guys can show where Christ said everything about His Ministry is found in the NT. Yet you demand it be.
Weird.
What happened to the normal Protestants? Man, a hundred yrs ago there were just the Lutherans and Methodist type. Now, its a bunch of complete idiots who are off the wall fundie. They changed almost every thing about Christianity - and continue to change.
We had a dual Catholic/Lutheran fish fry last Fri for lent. It was great fellowship between Protestants and Catholics.
I think Luther and Calvin would puke their guts out if they could've foresaw the disaster they created, by opening the door to sola scriptura.
A bunch of nomads lost in their world of private Bible interpretations, I tell ya!
What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China!!!!????

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427068 Mar 11, 2013
059
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, if you knew he was wrong or could refute with reason, there'd be no need to call names.
You are asea!!!! Am I calling anybody names???!!!!

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427069 Mar 11, 2013
060
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course they ignore the parts of the Bible with which they disagree.
Who doesn't?
The sons of God do not disagree with any parts of the Bible...but...you didn't know that...so that says you are not one of His.....
guest

United States

#427070 Mar 11, 2013
guest wrote:
::quote correction::
-
"Call no man you father." JESUS said it, I believe it.
-
"call priests father." POPE said it, I REFUSE to believe it.
-
It's like a STOP SIGN and NOT open to *private* interpretation - and yet ... your church's popes INSIST on being called Father and you say church *tradition* trumps Jesus' direct commands.
-
yeah. right. Church *tradition* is what got the church into the mess it's in now. For hundreds of years the *tradition* of the church was to PROTECT PEDOPHILE PRIESTS - that is until the mess got so big and vast and WORLD WIDE that secular authorities had to step in - because it was OBVIOUS that your leaders would NOT DO A THING TO STOP IT. But, instead (as per church 'tradition') they moved the priests to new 'hunting grounds'.
-
THERE is your CHURCH TRADITION IN ACTION! No wonder Jesus had no use for "traditions of men" ...
-
<quoted text>
-
There! I'm *hiding behind* scripture again! I'm *hiding behind* ANOTHER DIRECT QUOTE of JESUS!
-
When your very leaders violate a DIRECT COMMAND FROM JESUS HIMSELF, "Call no man your Father .." it's easy to see how they can warp out of all rational recognition every other thing that JESUS SAID which disagrees with them.
-
The concept of following Jesus (rather than men) is so foreign to you, that even when faced with direct quotes from Jesus himself .. you defy the Son of God and submit to traditions of men.
-
-
Clay wrote:
Guest, when Paul called Timothy 'his son', it would have been appropiate and is STILL appropiate to call him FATHER in return. This is why we called Priests, father from the earliest possible inception of the Church, because the first Christians called the Apostles,'father'.

Fast forward 2,000 yrs and some radical fundies snatched a line from the Bible and ran with it.....
oh well
-
It is never appropriate to ignore the words of Jesus himself. And for some reason you cannot comprehend that.
-
But, show me where Timothy calls Paul "father" ... or is that one of those *verses* that was not recorded and preserved?

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