Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 543,193
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#425263 Mar 1, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
renowned Protestant historian of the early Church J. N. D. Kelly, writes: "Eucharistic teaching, it should be understood at the outset, was in general unquestioningly realist, i.e., the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior’s body and blood" (Early Christian Doctrines, 440).
From the Church’s early days, the Fathers referred to Christ’s presence in the Eucharist. Kelly writes: "Ignatius roundly declares that ...[t]he bread is the flesh of Jesus, the cup his blood. Clearly he intends this realism to be taken strictly, for he makes it the basis of his argument against the Docetists’ denial of the reality of Christ’s body.... Irenaeus teaches that the bread and wine are really the Lord’s body and blood. His witness is, indeed, all the more impressive because he produces it quite incidentally while refuting the Gnostic and Docetic rejection of the Lord’s real humanity" (ibid., 197–98).
"Hippolytus speaks of ‘the body and the blood’ through which the Church is saved, and Tertullian regularly describes the bread as ‘the Lord’s body.’ The converted pagan, he remarks,‘feeds on the richness of the Lord’s body, that is, on the Eucharist.’ The realism of his theology comes to light in the argument, based on the intimate relation of body and soul, that just as in baptism the body is washed with water so that the soul may be cleansed, so in the Eucharist ‘the flesh feeds upon Christ’s body and blood so that the soul may be filled with God.’ Clearly his assumption is that the Savior’s body and blood are as real as the baptismal water. Cyprian’s attitude is similar. Lapsed Christians who claim communion without doing penance, he declares,‘do violence to his body and blood, a sin more heinous against the Lord with their hands and mouths than when they denied him.’ Later he expatiates on the terrifying consequences of profaning the sacrament, and the stories he tells confirm that he took the Real Presence literally" (ibid., 211–12).
There was nothing more universal in the church than the Eucharist. The fulfillment of the prophesy of Malachi. Christians were called the flesh eaters.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-real-prese...
And....people whom eat human beings are cannibals....Christ never taught us to do so and to be so!!!!!
John Brown

Oklahoma City, OK

#425264 Mar 1, 2013
you know I am right and are so ashamed of your self you can not say any thing.It is like turning your head to the proof so you can continue to sin.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#425265 Mar 1, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
[I'm unaware of any willful disagreement I might have with any of Christ's teachings. Honestly.
What does this mean?

Sounds to me that you made a sincere choice (on your own), to not to have a choice in what you believe, or to believe any other teachings that do not appear in your Bible.

Is this what you are trying to say.

Sorry, but your post has some twists and turns in it that caused me to stop and ask for directions.
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a feeling you're going to tell me momentarily which one(s) you believe I disagree with.:)
The fact is, I really don't know what you do believe and what you don't believe....BUT....before you come to a conclusion of this post....please remember this....
- I don't know, but presume to know what you believe, as I know Catholicism and you are a Catholic, so your beliefs are within the confines of Catholicism. If you are going to tell me that they are not, then, Dan, you are not a Catholic.

You'll have to clarify your post better, if you want me to answer you with the same honesty I ask of you.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#425266 Mar 1, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
227
<quoted text>
How old were you when you received Christ at baptism?
Three months old.

I renewed my Baptismal vows at Confirmation and received the Grace of the Holy Spirit there as well.

I'm fine.

Thanks.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#425267 Mar 1, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
You say I'm dishonest for not agreeing with your opinionated lies and presumptions about me. But, if I agreed with your lies about me I would be honest?
True - I've asked you to be honest, which you have not.

And in fact, if you were honest, you would agree with my posts.

But I regress because I have this feeling that this task is too hard for you.

Yes Saban, it requires an "examination of yourself", like Jesus requested. If you can't do this, just state it and continue on the path you've chosen, and forget about me altogher.

Either way or choice you make - is not hard to do. But it does start with you.....yes, "Self".
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#425268 Mar 1, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh - I see. You have first hand knowledge of "His nature".
Yet you don't post anything to show support that you actually have this knowledge of "His nature".
Why not?
A: because you lie and don't really know, but like to claim you do, to appease yourself and comfort yourself from the real truth....that you really don't know anythign about "God" and what "He" can or cannot do.
As I've told you in so many different ways - honesty is not your best characteristic by far.
Yes I do. He told me in His Word He is a Just God.

Hebrews 6:10
God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect,
and all his ways are just.
A faithful God who does no wrong,
upright and just is he.

Revelation 15:3
and sang the song of God’s servant Moses and of the Lamb:

“Great and marvelous are your deeds,
Lord God Almighty.
Just and true are your ways,
King of the nations.

Romans 3:26
he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Isaiah 9:7
Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.

Psalm 89:14
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne;
love and faithfulness go before you.

Nehemiah 9:33
In all that has happened to us, you have remained righteous; you have acted faithfully, while we acted wickedly.

Colossians 3:25
Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

2 Thessalonians 1:6
God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you

Jeremiah 23:5
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will raise up for David[a] a righteous Branch,
a King who will reign wisely
and do what is just and right in the land.

John 5:30
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Hebrews 2:2
For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment,

Ecclesiastes 3:17
I said to myself,

“God will bring into judgment
both the righteous and the wicked,
for there will be a time for every activity,
a time to judge every deed.”

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

See. I present my knowledge of His "just" nature. But watch...., in true New Age Spiritual Leader form, this will somehow be twisted into being my dishonesty and lies. It will likely be sanctimoniously divided up and sent into many different tangents while denies will be put forth that any reasonable knowledge of the nature of God is known or can be proven.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#425269 Mar 1, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
So, New Age Spiritual Leader, you are saying God is not a Just God?
As usual, trying to twist your way out of the original question, by posing something already set-up in your mind.

This is an indication of someone being brainwashed.

Once again, for you, I had asked GiF, "Why do you fear a loving God?"

Nowhere in my question reflects justification or that information.

FYI - no human has the ability to know the mind of "God" - whether he is "just" or not.

If one thinks they can, then they are arrogant and their ego leans upon the minds of other men.

Are you going to support your opinion that "God is Just" and should be feared, with only "Paul".

Why don't you do me a favor and post something by Jesus that dictates this belief of yours.

I'm not sure why I keep asking you to post anything, up to this point all you have done is divert from answering - just like the Catholics and others.

*sighs*

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#425270 Mar 1, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Well I agree with what you're saying Jethro. The Cathedral of Saint Paul just spent hundreds of thousand dollars on a new pipe organ. On one hand I'm uncomfortable with that.
However, I need to understand what the Church is and what takes place inside their buildings during Mass. Then it makes a little more sense.
The Church believes that during the Liturgy of the Eucharist at the Holy Mass, the bread and wine are transformed into the very presence of Jesus Christ. Heaven meets Earth on the alter and we experience the great gift of the Eucharist. This is our faith.
When I realize this, the expensive organ and beautiful music along with the enormous Dome (signifying the covenant) over looking the alter where Christ is made present......it seems a little more appropriate to welcome Our Lord this way.
But this mega church the evangelical Baptist are building in MN is for their own pleasure. All the amenities are geared towards the young and hip and for the comfort of the audience.
Its for entertainment disguised as worship towards Christ.
Its not too tough to convince a teenage Catholic kid to come over to their side. No more kneeling. No more standing (unless you feel like you wanna boogie). No more boring liturgy. No more dressing up. No more confession. And the best part, there are girls you age who's parents let them wear push-up bras to Sunday celebration. Lol.
Friend, Jesus has no use to be welcomed in such matter, as he lives in Heaven, which nothing on earth can compare to. It's his wish that money be used to help those who have nothing. The catholic church "wastes" more money in a year than walmart makes in a year. This is not just a shame this is an abomination to God. The Catholic church is the #1 false religion in the world. Folks God never intended his church to have so many different positions, creeds and inner workings as the Catholic church has that no man can even understand the workings of the Catholic church. The Church of Christ is the only church on this planet that teaches and "WORSHIPS" according to God, I urge you to read your bible and see if what I say is true, the Catholic church tells you that you must be a priest in order to understand the scriptures, which is an absolute lie. Do you think God would make it difficult for you to know his will, NO. Go to the nearest Church of Christ and get right with God before it's to late.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#425271 Mar 1, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
In case I didn't answer your question in the manner you asked it, no, I don't find any of Christ's teachings to be ludicrous, nor am I, to my knowledge, in willful disagreement with any of them.
Hope that's a complete response.
Good for you Dan.

Please expalin to me what Jesus meant with his statement here:
(3) Jesus says:

(1) "If those who lead you say to you:‘Look, the kingdom is in the sky!’
then the birds of the sky will precede you.
(2) If they say to you:‘It is in the sea,’ then the fishes will precede you.
(3) Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and outside of you."
(4) "When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known,
and you will realize that you are the children of the living Father.
(5) But if you do not come to know yourselves, then you exist in poverty, and you are poverty."

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gth_pat_rob.htm

How does what Jesus teach, help an individual to gain salvation?

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#425272 Mar 1, 2013
254 212 065 044
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
You still have failed to cite anything.
Telling me who's ideas you've passed off as your own isn't a citation. Cite the source, please.
There is a new book just out....its on the market...get one..ask for the English dictionary!!!

cite: To quote as an authority or example. To mention or bring forward as support, illustration, or proof.
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#425273 Mar 1, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, trying to twist your way out of the original question, by posing something already set-up in your mind.
This is an indication of someone being brainwashed.
Once again, for you, I had asked GiF, "Why do you fear a loving God?"
Nowhere in my question reflects justification or that information.
FYI - no human has the ability to know the mind of "God" - whether he is "just" or not.
If one thinks they can, then they are arrogant and their ego leans upon the minds of other men.
Are you going to support your opinion that "God is Just" and should be feared, with only "Paul".
Why don't you do me a favor and post something by Jesus that dictates this belief of yours.
I'm not sure why I keep asking you to post anything, up to this point all you have done is divert from answering - just like the Catholics and others.
*sighs*
It is in the post just before this one, O SMART 'Spiritual Leader'.

Jesus' words too since they are so much more important to you than that of the Holy Spirit through inspiration.

(what a joke...)

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#425274 Mar 1, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
All of what you post above is realized thru Self and personal choices.
No religious organization is required to achieve this.
Why do you think it is?
- BTW - your answer will also have originated from your "Self".
Think hard, and post the truths, because I'd hate to not have the truth said to me. GiF and hojo are going to help as well.
Then there is the poster Saban, who loves to make spurious claims, but never supporting anything he says, which makes it hard for me (or anyone for that matter), to believe someone who can't even formulate an opinion of facts to support their position in refutation of what I've presented.
Sooo - whatcha got?
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, yeah. I have to have faith. This is an act undertaken personally.
More precisely - an action of Self. No religion required.
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
The Church enters into it by the same principle.
The so-called "Church" has never been defined completely. Of all the posts just in this forum on this subject, I think you can agree, we've seen many different explanations and qualifiers.

And believe it or not, I've met them all, even when others say I haven't.

Can you believe that???
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
If I believe that Christ's teachings on the Eucharist are true as an act of faith, that same faith leads me to believe that His establishment of the Church and His commission to the Apostles is true.
But you only accept a certain amount of the Apostles - based upon the decision of other men. So, you feel more comfort in being just a follower of those men, who chose NOT to accept those other teachings by Jesus?

Hmmmm...you are starting to sound spurious and a bit contradictory.

You'll have to clarify a little more for me to understand you correctly.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#425275 Mar 1, 2013
260
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist, then you regard His teaching on the matter in John 6 to be Him speaking in metaphor.
Can't be much clearer.
You are trying to add 2 and 2 and get 5 as a total...you cannot show my words that say, as you said I said "John 6 is a metaphor..." because I never did say such.......

Besides that...John 6 has 71 verses...I don't see any that say "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body."

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#425276 Mar 1, 2013
261 226
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
You're incorrect.
Then when you said "Christian faith until the Reformation taught that the Eucharist was the body and blood of Jesus" you were not talking about the Catholic church??? If not, which one did you have reference of?????

Seems to me you are somewhat asea!!!

Quote: Eucharist in the Catholic Church refers to both the celebration of the Mass, that is the Eucharistic Liturgy, and the consecrated bread and wine which according to the faith become the body and blood of Christ. Blessed Sacrament is a devotional term used in the Roman Catholic Church to refer to the Eucharistic species (the Body and Blood of Christ).

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#425277 Mar 1, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
You used "fallible men" as an admonition to hojo. Why, I don't know, as I didn't read hojo telling anyone that anyone was infallible (in the strict sense).
Hojo stated that the canon was infallible, but as you and I both know, men wrote the Bible, which would make the canon fallible, as no man is infallible.

If one is to utilize past discussions on this "infallible text", one can also come to the conclusion that an infallible entity ["God"] wouldn't need to use fallible men at all to get the correct message to "His children".

But in truth, this didn't occur, huh? So now we have the Catholics, telling others that they are incorrect, and that Catholicism is the correct "belief".

It just doesn't jive - too many inconsistencies.
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Is your "self" mantra a reminder to all of us of our fallibility, or are your telling us that "self", ultimately, is the arbiter of what is and isn't "truth"?
You are finally paying attention. Good for you. Now if you can only go forward with this, you would realize what you have just stated is true.

We are fallible, we make mistakes, because of personal choices we've made. Some turn out good and some turn out not so good. But we still continue on living.

Examining ourselves brings out the truths we don't like to see. Like my statements of 'that the bible was written by men." In truth it was. It someone else's "truth" they promote "written by men, under the guide of the HS".....which as we can see, this is NOT A FACT, but only a belief instilled upon the person BY OTHER MEN. Now if the HS came to my house and stated, I'm going to guide you to write a new gospel, who in the hell is going to believe me. More than likely, no one, because they already have a certian belief in their OWN MIND [Self]- dictating to them, "oh no way, the gospels of Jesus have already been written, there are no more."

Now you see the facts behind Self and how it is in control.

Whether you accept this fact or not, it still is fact. Which negates anything any religion puts into the minds of the followers.

Good post Dan....thanks!
Dan

Omaha, NE

#425278 Mar 1, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
254 212 065 044
<quoted text>
There is a new book just out....its on the market...get one..ask for the English dictionary!!!
cite: To quote as an authority or example. To mention or bring forward as support, illustration, or proof.
Cite the source.

Last time I'm asking.

Like you indicate, bring the source forward as proof.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#425279 Mar 1, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
260
<quoted text>
You are trying to add 2 and 2 and get 5 as a total...you cannot show my words that say, as you said I said "John 6 is a metaphor..." because I never did say such.......
Besides that...John 6 has 71 verses...I don't see any that say "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body."
Noted that you're dodging here.

Thanks. I think I win this point.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#425280 Mar 1, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
261 226
<quoted text>
Then when you said "Christian faith until the Reformation taught that the Eucharist was the body and blood of Jesus" you were not talking about the Catholic church??? If not, which one did you have reference of?????
Seems to me you are somewhat asea!!!
Quote: Eucharist in the Catholic Church refers to both the celebration of the Mass, that is the Eucharistic Liturgy, and the consecrated bread and wine which according to the faith become the body and blood of Christ. Blessed Sacrament is a devotional term used in the Roman Catholic Church to refer to the Eucharistic species (the Body and Blood of Christ).
The Catholic Church WAS the Christian faith until the reformation.

I thought even protestants knew that.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#425281 Mar 1, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
All of what you post above is realized thru Self and personal choices.
No religious organization is required to achieve this.
Why do you think it is?
- BTW - your answer will also have originated from your "Self".
Think hard, and post the truths, because I'd hate to not have the truth said to me. GiF and hojo are going to help as well.
Then there is the poster Saban, who loves to make spurious claims, but never supporting anything he says, which makes it hard for me (or anyone for that matter), to believe someone who can't even formulate an opinion of facts to support their position in refutation of what I've presented.
Sooo - whatcha got?
<quoted text>
More precisely - an action of Self. No religion required.
<quoted text>
The so-called "Church" has never been defined completely. Of all the posts just in this forum on this subject, I think you can agree, we've seen many different explanations and qualifiers.
And believe it or not, I've met them all, even when others say I haven't.
Can you believe that???
<quoted text>
But you only accept a certain amount of the Apostles - based upon the decision of other men. So, you feel more comfort in being just a follower of those men, who chose NOT to accept those other teachings by Jesus?
Hmmmm...you are starting to sound spurious and a bit contradictory.
You'll have to clarify a little more for me to understand you correctly.
You're now dictating what my faith should be based upon, are you not? Judging it incomplete by virtue of my adherence to only the canonical gospels.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#425282 Mar 1, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I do. He told me in His Word He is a Just God.
Hebrews 6:10
God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.
Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect,
and all his ways are just.
A faithful God who does no wrong,
upright and just is he.
Revelation 15:3
and sang the song of God’s servant Moses and of the Lamb:
“Great and marvelous are your deeds,
Lord God Almighty.
Just and true are your ways,
King of the nations.
Romans 3:26
he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Isaiah 9:7
Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.
Psalm 89:14
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne;
love and faithfulness go before you.
Nehemiah 9:33
In all that has happened to us, you have remained righteous; you have acted faithfully, while we acted wickedly.
Colossians 3:25
Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.
2 Thessalonians 1:6
God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you
Jeremiah 23:5
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will raise up for David[a] a righteous Branch,
a King who will reign wisely
and do what is just and right in the land.
John 5:30
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
Hebrews 2:2
For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment,
Ecclesiastes 3:17
I said to myself,
“God will bring into judgment
both the righteous and the wicked,
for there will be a time for every activity,
a time to judge every deed.”
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
See. I present my knowledge of His "just" nature. But watch...., in true New Age Spiritual Leader form, this will somehow be twisted into being my dishonesty and lies. It will likely be sanctimoniously divided up and sent into many different tangents while denies will be put forth that any reasonable knowledge of the nature of God is known or can be proven.
Nah - posting opinions and statements by others, just goes to show me that you have a strict belief in men and their beliefs.

Which is ultimately Self.

Interpretation is perception and perception is Self.

In which all of the above are done by or have included the Self of those individuals....."Paul " is human, and only Jesus appeared to him, never "God". And the story of who "God" is, as explained by Jesus, is not what you say.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-long.htm...

You are still believing other men over Jesus - namely "Paul", because if you have noticed, not one of the statements that you posted above were said by Jesus.

But many by "Paul".

Why do you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Jesus?

Oh yeah - the NT is the "New Covenant" - which supposedly overcame the OT "God". Or are you now objecting to this as well?

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