Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 543,117
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
guest

United States

#424955 Feb 27, 2013
Clay wrote:
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The Gospel of Thomas - So Called
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/554 ...
The Silence of Scriptures - An Argument for Inspiration
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.asp ...
-
-
Clay wrote:
I was hoping for a response in your own words.
The internet I filled with essays of propaganda by self proclaimed authorities on scripture. They slice and dice their way through the Bible until they arrive at the religion they want.
To me, it mean nothing.
-
-
YOU, Clay, have arrived at the religion the POPE wants AFTER slicing and dicing through the Bible. And it keeps changing with every pope. Now, they are allowed to "resign" ...
-
It's bad enough that they ADDED to the Hebrew scripture 7 books that do not belong there and called it Christian.
-
Down through history RCC has done WHAT they want - WHEN they want -
regardless of what the Bible says. They have even defied Jesus' own words.
-
The church is the CAUSE of most of the confusion. They HID the word of God from the people because ... "they were illiterate." ...so says the Catholic Church. Rather than encouraging or teaching the people to read, the RCC hid the Word of God.... kept it for the "intellectuals" of the Roman Catholic hierarchy .. who waged war and murdered and tortured people and raped children and covered up for the raping of children. And called itself The "Holy Roman Catholic Church" ... whilst doing all those heinous deeds.
-
With all that crap going on in the Catholic church is there any wonder there is a profusion of Protestant sects out there? is there any wonder there is confusion? they are ALL ... ALL OF THEM ... trying to separate OUT the falsehoods the RC Church has ADDED to what was first handed to the Apostles. The Catholic Church of today is NOTHING like the First Century Church. If a first century apostle had been raping little boys, they would have BEEN KICKED OUT! Period.
-

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#424956 Feb 27, 2013
952
ironman77 wrote:
The translator's task is compounded by the presence of words and phrases whose original meanings have been lost. In these cases, the translator will attempt to interpret the words and phrases as best as possible based on the context of the word and the translator's opinion of what the author was attempting to convey. When the reader of the translation comes across the translator's attempts at translating the difficult text, the reader almost always makes the assumption the translator has accurately translated the text. The following passage will give an example of some of the difficulties the translators face when attempting to convert the Hebrew text into an understandable English rendering.
Make a roof for the ark, and finish it to a cubit above; and set the door of the ark in its side; make it with lower, second, and third decks.(Genesis 6:16 - RSV)
The above translation seems very clear, concise and understandable. The reader would have no problem understanding the meaning of the text and assumes this translation adequately represents the original text. Behind this translation lies the Hebrew, which must be a translator's nightmare. Below is a literal rendering of the same verse according to the Hebrew.
“A light you do to an ark and to a cubit you complete it from to over it and a door of the ark in its side you put unders twenty and thirty you do.”
This is not an isolated case, but occurs continually throughout the Biblical texts. In order to assist the English reader, the translator has supplied words, phrases, and even whole sentences to enable the reader to understand the text. The reader is rarely aware of the difficulties in translating a certain passage and assumes the translator has accurately translated the text.
Nice try to show the Word of God as nothing but gobble-goop....

Ge 6:16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.KJV....

Show me the Hebrew words in that verse per Strong's Hebrew lexicon that says what you say it says...

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou shalt make a window in the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish the top of it: and the door of the ark thou shalt set in the side: with lower, middle chambers, and third stories shalt thou make it.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#424957 Feb 27, 2013
More accusations from the limited read follower of men.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Another Example: When did I ever say that I thought I needed to trust you? I think I stated I don't trust you. You've given me NO reason to.
You may be the finest example of anyone I've seen on this thread of placing words in people's mouths that were never there.
Again, presumption.
This is killing your credibility, New Age Spiritual Leader.
Try this:
Begin formulating an idea and presenting it, without pre-conceived presumption, and prove the validity of your case on the matter.
You can do it!
You sure did reflect upon "my trust", thus implying that I must have not fit the description that you seem to think exists.

Saban fan wrote:
?1. I believe the scriptures are inspired (directly from God) therefore I am not trusting man over God. This is precisely the reason I don't trust you.

New Age wrote:
I never asked you to trust me, so stop thinking you need to.

Boy, you sure have a lot of problems with understanding - not only what is inspired by "God" and what is not, but also a major reading comprehension problem.

Like I said - I never asked you to trust me.

Stop being so arrogant, and maybe then you can get past these small challenges that face you.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#424958 Feb 27, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Another Example: When did I ever say that I thought I needed to trust you? I think I stated I don't trust you. You've given me NO reason to.
You may be the finest example of anyone I've seen on this thread of placing words in people's mouths that were never there.
Again, presumption.
This is killing your credibility, New Age Spiritual Leader.
Try this:
Begin formulating an idea and presenting it, without pre-conceived presumption, and prove the validity of your case on the matter.
You can do it!
BTW I appreciate your encouragement towards me, but really, your sarcasm is not becoming at all.

In fact, it just shows how shallow you are - when wallowing in the teachings of men and not Jesus.

Come out of the darkness - Jesus wants you to.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#424959 Feb 27, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't know for sure if your riddles... I mean questions were about this.
1. The first question doesn't make sense, because Jesus didn't write anything. Ironically, you and me are relying on the recollections of men. They wrote their memories 40 yrs or so after Jesus Christ died. I trust its accurate.
2. We don't know if any of the other Apostles wrote anything. Your Gospel of Thomas was suspect of being a fraud from very early on....written by men yrs after Thomas died.
February 24th, 303 AD.
Christians likely lost many other authentic accounts of the life of Less. Perhaps the first 30 yrs of His life? Perhaps more about Mary and Joseph?
Nice - you've taken the first step - admitting men wrote the Bible.

Good for you.

Now if you can only admit that men DO NOT know the mind of "God", thus anything written about him is speculation at best.

But will you?

Probably not. Your robotic-like belief implies that you won't.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#424961 Feb 27, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:

If "All scripture is inspired by God", then they are just as valid.
Unfortunately, MEN DECIDED that they could play "God" and choose what you are to believe or not.
One does not need a specific religion to understand this.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps the Holy Spirit played God and preserved what needed to be preserved.
"perhaps"???
- guessing is a man's function and you do it well.
- Know the difference between "perhaps" and "actually occurred".

Perhaps the HS guided men to write these texts so that they would not be segregated.

Perhaps GoThomas is the key to all of what Jesus taught.

Perhaps men changed the words in the NT, just to gain followers.

Perhaps = speculation = Self

Interpretation is perception. Perception is Self.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
To think otherwise would be questioning the power and effectiveness of the Holy Spirit wouldn't it?
No - to think otherwise is to show that you have researched what you read, and not take for granted what other men have stated is true.

Again, we've arrived at Self.

"To know your Self is to know the kingdom of God." - Jesus

Why don't you believe Jesus? Are you afraid to believe these teachings? Why, what if you did?

Do you think something bad will happen to you?
- this is where your heirarchy has placed fear into your mind.
- there is no fear to believe in Jesus or his teachings.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#424962 Feb 27, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Since I've explained over and over that I do not follow men, perhaps you could explain how YOU avoid this "following men".
You have? when?
FACT: if you believe the Bible, then you follow men, because men wrote the Bible. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Do you have other facts that disprove this? I didn't think so, either. So be honest and admit those facts I've stated.
Provide the facts that state "God" or the HS inspired only a handful of men, and no others.
You won't, because you can't. Yet another truth that you will lie about, divert from or just ignore.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
How exactly how you have come to the beliefs you hold dear?
Learning the ways of the world. Seeing things that no one else will believe, and understanding Jesus when he teaches.
What about you? Oh yeah - Self brought you to where you are today, alongside teh following of what men have prescribed for you to believe.
You are a sentient being right?
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I know it completely goes against your nature to answer other's questions, but it would be educational to learn what, how and why you believe.
I've already posted it last week, the week before that, the week before that, and probably the week before that.
Hey clueless - check it out. I have over 18000 posts since 2007 - I'm sorry you can't grasp the FACT that I have posted my beliefs - NUMEROUS TIMES - on this forum as well as others.
Go find them yourself, and stop being so darn lazy.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you think Paul was not enlightened?
Correction, I do believe "Paul" was enlightened, but not more than Jesus.
Why do you attempt to put a new belief in my mind?
Why do you attempt to change my initial question? Does it suit you better when you do? Does it help you navigate away from the original question?
Move past the owords and understand their meanings, "half-Christain".
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#424963 Feb 27, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW I appreciate your encouragement towards me, but really, your sarcasm is not becoming at all.
In fact, it just shows how shallow you are - when wallowing in the teachings of men and not Jesus.
Come out of the darkness - Jesus wants you to.
Matt. 7:6
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#424964 Feb 27, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
You have? when?
FACT: if you believe the Bible, then you follow men, because men wrote the Bible. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Do you have other facts that disprove this? I didn't think so, either. So be honest and admit those facts I've stated.
Provide the facts that state "God" or the HS inspired only a handful of men, and no others.
You won't, because you can't. Yet another truth that you will lie about, divert from or just ignore.
<quoted text>
Learning the ways of the world. Seeing things that no one else will believe, and understanding Jesus when he teaches.
What about you? Oh yeah - Self brought you to where you are today, alongside teh following of what men have prescribed for you to believe.
You are a sentient being right?
<quoted text>
I've already posted it last week, the week before that, the week before that, and probably the week before that.
Hey clueless - check it out. I have over 18000 posts since 2007 - I'm sorry you can't grasp the FACT that I have posted my beliefs - NUMEROUS TIMES - on this forum as well as others.
Go find them yourself, and stop being so darn lazy.
<quoted text>
Correction, I do believe "Paul" was enlightened, but not more than Jesus.
Why do you attempt to put a new belief in my mind?
Why do you attempt to change my initial question? Does it suit you better when you do? Does it help you navigate away from the original question?
Move past the owords and understand their meanings, "half-Christain".
Matt. 7:6
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#424965 Feb 27, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
If "All scripture is inspired by God", then they are just as valid.
Unfortunately, MEN DECIDED that they could play "God" and choose what you are to believe or not.
One does not need a specific religion to understand this.
<quoted text>
"perhaps"???
- guessing is a man's function and you do it well.
- Know the difference between "perhaps" and "actually occurred".
Perhaps the HS guided men to write these texts so that they would not be segregated.
Perhaps GoThomas is the key to all of what Jesus taught.
Perhaps men changed the words in the NT, just to gain followers.
Perhaps = speculation = Self
Interpretation is perception. Perception is Self.
<quoted text>
No - to think otherwise is to show that you have researched what you read, and not take for granted what other men have stated is true.
Again, we've arrived at Self.
"To know your Self is to know the kingdom of God." - Jesus
Why don't you believe Jesus? Are you afraid to believe these teachings? Why, what if you did?
Do you think something bad will happen to you?
- this is where your heirarchy has placed fear into your mind.
- there is no fear to believe in Jesus or his teachings.
Matt. 7:6

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#424966 Feb 27, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt. 7:6
GoThomas 3:1-5

I like this game too, your turn.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#424967 Feb 27, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt. 7:6
GoThomas 3:1-5

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#424968 Feb 27, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt. 7:6
Now you are just being silly or just out of answers.

Maybe you should grab "God" and ask "Him" what "He" should do about me, huh?

You do know the mind of "God", so let's converse shall we.

Or more factually, you don't have a clue on what "God", the HS, or Jesus does, can do, or cannot do, but will lie your way into the minds of other, promoting the nonsense with little quips of joy you can mine from the Bible.

Get a clue - you are way out of your league with me, but shoot - maybe you will eventually understand your folly.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#424969 Feb 27, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Since I've explained over and over that I do not follow men, perhaps you could explain how YOU avoid this "following men".
Just re-reading some of your posts to me....and to be honest - this one, is very telling.

1st you say you don't follow men, yet you believe the Bible - which was written by men - so if you don't believe men, you surely must ot believe the Bible.

2ndly - you stated "explain how YOU avoid this following men"
- again you will lean on this "avoidance", but yet don't realize that your conscious actually implied that you DO follow men, and is trying to figure out how "I avoid them".

Simple answer Saban, don't believe everything that has been given to you. Research that which you have received. Research those who have written what you believe.

Knowledge is power.

But why even tell you this? I know you won't do any such things, and go on with believing what men have told you to believe.

I'm starting to think you are nothing but a sock puppet of other men.

"Here, drink this, eat this, do this....all for Jesus....."

yep - very telling.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#424970 Feb 27, 2013
Just so you don't forget why you posted what you did....

**********

New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
If "All scripture is inspired by God", then they are just as valid.
Unfortunately, MEN DECIDED that they could play "God" and choose what you are to believe or not.
One does not need a specific religion to understand this.
<quoted text>
"perhaps"???
- guessing is a man's function and you do it well.
- Know the difference between "perhaps" and "actually occurred".
Perhaps the HS guided men to write these texts so that they would not be segregated.
Perhaps GoThomas is the key to all of what Jesus taught.
Perhaps men changed the words in the NT, just to gain followers.
Perhaps = speculation = Self
Interpretation is perception. Perception is Self.
<quoted text>
No - to think otherwise is to show that you have researched what you read, and not take for granted what other men have stated is true.
Again, we've arrived at Self.
"To know your Self is to know the kingdom of God." - Jesus
Why don't you believe Jesus? Are you afraid to believe these teachings? Why, what if you did?
Do you think something bad will happen to you?
- this is where your heirarchy has placed fear into your mind.
- there is no fear to believe in Jesus or his teachings.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt. 7:6
Lots of questions you couldn't answer? Understandable. You haven't been taught these things.

No problem. Take your time to research and learn about what I write. Salvation will only come once - when you die.
Clay

Saint Paul, MN

#424971 Feb 27, 2013
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
-
-
<quoted text>
-
-
YOU, Clay, have arrived at the religion the POPE wants AFTER slicing and dicing through the Bible. And it keeps changing with every pope. Now, they are allowed to "resign" ...
-
It's bad enough that they ADDED to the Hebrew scripture 7 books that do not belong there and called it Christian.
-
Down through history RCC has done WHAT they want - WHEN they want -
regardless of what the Bible says. They have even defied Jesus' own words.
-
The church is the CAUSE of most of the confusion. They HID the word of God from the people because ... "they were illiterate." ...so says the Catholic Church. Rather than encouraging or teaching the people to read, the RCC hid the Word of God.... kept it for the "intellectuals" of the Roman Catholic hierarchy .. who waged war and murdered and tortured people and raped children and covered up for the raping of children. And called itself The "Holy Roman Catholic Church" ... whilst doing all those heinous deeds.
-
With all that crap going on in the Catholic church is there any wonder there is a profusion of Protestant sects out there? is there any wonder there is confusion? they are ALL ... ALL OF THEM ... trying to separate OUT the falsehoods the RC Church has ADDED to what was first handed to the Apostles. The Catholic Church of today is NOTHING like the First Century Church. If a first century apostle had been raping little boys, they would have BEEN KICKED OUT! Period.
-
Wow. Using your description, I wouldn't like the Catholic Church either!
Unfortunately for you, you posted a bunch of lies. So I can't listen to you. My momma said steer clear of liars.

What next for you conspiracy Christians?

What Church did Christ start?

I don't think it was yours... Ellen White started that one.
socci

Mount Vernon, MO

#424972 Feb 27, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
1st you say you don't follow men, yet you believe the Bible - which was written by men - so if you don't believe men, you surely must ot believe the Bible.

Of course men wrote it; who would you expect? But men moved by God writing things that no man could know.

Jesus said:

"Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, you may believe that I am he." (John 13:19)

If the thing written is fulfilled then it was God inspired.
Clay

United States

#424973 Feb 27, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice - you've taken the first step - admitting men wrote the Bible.
Good for you.
Now if you can only admit that men DO NOT know the mind of "God", thus anything written about him is speculation at best.
But will you?
Probably not. Your robotic-like belief implies that you won't.
What on Earth are you?

Are you really trying to fool us into thinking we 'follow men' but you do not?

You follow words ( I think) that were written by men.
Men told you that Jesus said X. You believe them.

Men said they knew Christ and wrote about Him. You believe them.

Men said the Gospel of Thomas is a fake. You don't believe those men.
Other men said GoThomas is authentic. You believe those men.
Hmmm.

Me? Yes I follow men. Men who are ordained in the Church that Jesus Christ started. This would be the Church that He promised "The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"
Where else would I rather be then in this Church, surrounded by leaders who are all in communion with each other and are protected from error on teachings?
Jesus will always guide our leaders to truth.(this does not mean they are exempt from sinning btw)
Clay

United States

#424975 Feb 27, 2013
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course men wrote it; who would you expect? But men moved by God writing things that no man could know.
Jesus said:
"Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, you may believe that I am he." (John 13:19)
If the thing written is fulfilled then it was God inspired.
Don't forget about the men who gathered those books and declared them inspired by the Holy Spirit. Those men were members of the ROMAN Catholic Church and included the stamp of two Popes. First Damaseus in 392, then Innocent I in 405 AD.
Wikipedia.org/Wiki/development_of_New_testame...
GBA

Royal Oak, MI

#424976 Feb 27, 2013
Francis wrote:
Who do "Bible only" Protestants follow?
The Holy Scriptures are the Word of God. This is admitted by Protestants generally. But it is clear that if the Scriptures are wrongly interpreted, they become the word of man. For, as the Protestant Bishop Walton says: "The Word of God does not consist in mere letters, whether written or printed, but in the true sense of it."
This is also what St. Jerome (who was the first to translate the Bible into Latin) had said ages before: "Let us be persuaded that the Gospel consists not in the words but in the sense. A wrong explanation turns the Word of God into the word of man, and, what is worse, into the word of the devil; for the devil himself could quote the text of Scripture…" Indeed, he did so when he tempted our Lord in the desert (Matt 4: 6).
Those who confidently boast that they stand by the "Bible alone" imagine that to stand by the Bible alone means that they rely not upon human authority, but upon the Word of God.
Certainly nothing can be better than to stand by the Word of God, but is what they call standing by the Bible alone, actually standing by the word of God?
Firstly, the Bible, though divinely inspired, is but a written document, and a written document often so obscure, that St. Augustine, though so great a scholar, and a Doctor of the Church, confessed that there were more things in the Bible he did not understand than those he did.
Secondly, the Bible, because it is a written document, always remains silent unless interpreted, that is, unless some meaning is affixed to the words, by someone. It is clear that the Bible cannot speak and interpret itself: you must take the Book in your hand, open it, read it, compare passages, and attach a certain meaning to the words in them.
Therefore, when a Protestant says: "I stand by the Bible alone", he does not mean that he stands by the Bible uninterpreted - for in such case the Bible is mute.
He does not mean that he stands by the Bible as interpreted by the Church - for that would be not the Protestant but the Catholic way.
Nor does he mean that he stands by the Bible as interpreted by somebody else; as that would be - according to his notion - to give up his right of private interpretation.
What he really means then is that he stands by the Bible alone as interpreted by himself, and that the sense in which he personally understands it is the sure Word of God.
And then he jumps on the internet to denigrate Catholics for being too wise to fall for any man's personal/private interpretation of their (the Catholic Church's!) own Book of Scripture! Of course, he'll tell you the "Holy Spirit" is guiding him in his (assumedly infallible) understanding of Truth. Ask him why the Holy Spirit would guide only his understanding, and not that of a billion Catholics, and he'll revert once again to accusations, abuse, slander and bearing false withness against his neighbor. Ugh.
I'd give you ten thumbs up if I could. By the way I am a convert to the one holy Catholic and apostolic church. Praise God I found my way home!

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