John 2: 3-6 "And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him,'They have no wine.' Jesus said to her,'Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me.? My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servants,'Whatever He says to you, do it." Now there were set there six water pots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece."' ANSWER: Although the fermented and unfermented wines are translated from the same original word, the Biblical context establishes that no alcoholic drink is approved in God's Word. Jesus certainly would not go contrary to the Old Testament Scriptures which specifically forbade fermented wine. Proverbs 20:1 and Proverbs 23:29-32 indisputably condemn the use of alcoholic beverage. Would Christ disobey the Scriptures? It is unconceivable. It is true that wine is often approved for use in the Bible, but this is the pure juice of the grape without fermentation. Here is evidence that this kind of wine is a blessing: "Thus says the Lord:'As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one says,'Do not destroy it, for a blessing is in it,' so will I do for My servants' sake, that I may not destroy them all"' Isaiah 65:8. This wine is "in the cluster," or fresh from the grape. It is a blessing, but not the "strong wine," "mixed wine," or alcoholic beverage.<quoted text>
I've been to a Pentecostal service where they passed out grape juice in these thimbles. To be honest I thought it lacked sufficient reverence.
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#424704 Feb 25, 2013
#424705 Feb 25, 2013
As I recall I stated water Baptism was ACT of one Faith and a commandment not a work.
“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”
Since: Jun 10
"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"
#424706 Feb 25, 2013
Pro 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
Pro 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Pro 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
JESUS WOULD NOT MAKE ANY THING THAT ..."biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. "
HIS DESCRIPTIVE WORDS CONCERNING WINE WERE ....
Mat_26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this -->fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Mar_14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of -->the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
Luk_22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of --->the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
#424707 Feb 25, 2013
Bravo. Mexicans are fine people.
The Christero War -- a just war IMHO. Not only did the peasants have the support of their local Priests, but for the first time that I am aware, the "one true church" stood with the people against the powerful. The events of WW1 and the fact that they were confronting an avoided atheist left the Church with no other choice.
THE BIG QUESTION AGAIN...
So why didn't you and your Catholic wife settle in Catholic-majority Mexico, which as you have pointed out, embraces the RCC and its "perfect teachings?"
Why didn't you walk your talk?
Think!!! No abortion, most church are "true," and thanks to a single Marian miracle, millions supposedly converted at once!
What more could you have asked for? A Mexican catholic wife! Family. Roots among the spiritually superior.
Why didn't you walk your talk?
Until then, maybe you shouldn't be telling others whether their churches are actually churches in the eyes of God or not.
You of all people had a clear-cut choice.
“What are you looking at?”
Since: Jan 08
#424708 Feb 25, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Why are you diverting from answering the question?
Let's try it again.
Do you now find Luke more enlightened than Jesus?
Why don't you believe in all of what Jesus taught?
I didn't ask for a text book explanation.
I asked you for your opinion - not "Paul's".
Saban fan wrote:
"To answer your last question, I believe everything that Jesus taught."
But yet you in truth - don't. You don't accept none of these teachings are his of his origin:
Where are Jesus' teachings on what you state above?
Why do you find "Paul" and "Luke" more enlightened than first hand accounts by Thomas - of what Jesus spoke?
Using honesty.....if you are able....you should be able to give a straight answer.
C'mon - you can do it.
#424709 Feb 25, 2013
youtube.com/watch... ………… Questioning a
#424710 Feb 25, 2013
Like I said, you guys instilled a perception in your minds about the CC.
Now, if I walked into a Pagan church where they were actually worshiping false gods, I would feel uneasy. But that's based on factual data. They worship false gods!
Your uneasy feelings is based on what you THINK we do. Or worse, what you WANT to think we do.
Its a bit childish to look at a beautiful image or statue and think it somehow offends God. I mean, you really really have to submit to a lot of ignorance to subscribe to that
#424711 Feb 25, 2013
Ok was I supose top have learned something new on top of what I already posted and believe ?
Or where you just amending to what I already posted ?
#424712 Feb 25, 2013
The three main branches of Christianity are Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant (some would add Anglican as a fourth). Most of the denominations that exist today developed in the 500 years since the Protestant Reformation and fall under the "Protestant" branch.
There are about 9,000 Protestant Christian denominations in the world.
Facts according to the World Christian Encyclopedia, published by Oxford University Press.
I wonder which of the 9000 denominations that sprung up in just the last 500 years is correct?
#424713 Feb 25, 2013
I haven't looked at the link yet, but I've heard about some crazy things in the 'book of Thomas'. If the link refers to it, Are there any correlations between that book or other NT books referring back to it? What evidence is there that the book is inspired?
#424714 Feb 25, 2013
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Fort Frances, Canada
#424716 Feb 25, 2013
Thank you 7th for that information.
“What are you looking at?”
Since: Jan 08
#424717 Feb 25, 2013
"I haven't looked at the link yet," - Of course you hadn't. It isn't in the prescribed literary basis of the men you follow. I understand.
"but I've heard about some crazy things in the 'book of Thomas'"
- You have? Like what? Do you always believe everything you hear, without researching it? You know, like your religion?
- if you had, you wouldn't be a "Christian".
Of course there is.
"In the other four gospels, Jesus is frequently called upon to explain the meanings of parables or the correct procedure for prayer. In Thomas saying 6, his disciples ask him, "Do you want us to fast? How should we pray? Should we give alms? What diet should we observe?" For reasons unknown, Jesus's answer is found in saying 14, wherein he advises against fasting, praying, and the giving of alms (all contrary to Christian practice of the time), although he does take a position similar to that in Mark 7: 18–19 and Matthew 15:11 that what goes into the mouth will not defile a person, but what comes out of the mouth will. This is just one example in Thomas in which the hearer's attention is directed away from objectified judgements of the world to knowing oneself in direct and straighforward manner, which is sometimes called being "as a child" or "a little one" through the unification of dualistic thinking and modes of objectification.(For example, Sayings 22 and 37) To portray the breaking down of the dualistic perspective Jesus uses the image of fire which consumes all.(See Sayings 10 and 82).
The teaching of salvation (i.e., entering the Kingdom of Heaven) that is found in The Gospel of Thomas is neither that of "works" nor of "grace" as the dichotomy is found in the canonical gospels, but what might be called a third way, that of insight. The overriding concern of The Gospel of Thomas is to find the light within in order to be a light unto the world.(See for example, Sayings 24, 26)
In contrast to the Gospel of John, where Jesus is likened to a (divine and beloved) Lord as in ruler, the Thomas gospel portrays Jesus as more the ubiquitous vehicle of spiritual inspiration and enlightenment, as in saying 77:
I am the light that shines over all things. I am everything. From me all came forth, and to me all return. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there.
In many other respects, the Thomas gospel offers terse yet familiar if not identical accounts of the sayings of Jesus as seen in the synoptic gospels."
"all scripture is inspired by God" - I think it has been said a couple of times.
Unless, you don't think men can't determine "God's mind"?
I personally think they CAN'T.
#424718 Feb 25, 2013
Correct by whose standards, and by what measures?
Dogma and ritual?
Mankind can generally agree on morality and virtue. It's the dogma and ritual which has always been divisive and unclear.
How unclear, arbitrary and exclusive do you want your god to be?
#424719 Feb 25, 2013
Correct by who's standards, and by what measures?
#424720 Feb 25, 2013
Most absurd post of day....
Clay writes -- "But that's based on factual data. They worship false gods!"
Smell the coffee Clay. If the RCC had any "factual data" on God, they wouldn't be a comedy club topic worldwide.
There is no factual data on God. It's called "faith" for a reason.
The only factual data the RCC claims to possess (if you believe church-approved, church promoted miracles and apparitions) is kept away from independent, modern scientific scrutiny.
Jesus didn't provide "factual data" and evidence to the RCC to save souls, only to have it hidden.
Nope, it's called fraud.
#424721 Feb 25, 2013
Exactly, all 9000 think they are correct and the other 8999 are wrong. Which is why I left Protestantism behind. Everytime I went to a different church depending on the denomination the standards, measures, morality, virtue, dogma, rituals changed.
Each denomination claims theirs is right and the others wrong.
Saint Paul, MN
#424727 Feb 25, 2013
Clay---just curious!! How often do you go to the Cathedral of St. Paul! I often go there from the West Minneapolis area for prayer intentions, Mass, prayer and confession!.... A number of years back, 3 of my children went to and graduated from St Agnes School, before Providence Academy was built. Always enjoy your comments. You have more patience than I do with these bible only editorializing "fundies"! Would like to meet up sometime! Thanks and Gods Blessing to you and your family during this season of Lent!!
#424728 Feb 25, 2013
If you are asking for my opinion and "not Paul's" than you are seeking knowledge from the wrong place. My opinion doesn't matter. Men's opinions don't matter.
#424729 Feb 25, 2013
Well, to be such a "know so" sort of feller you sure have alot of "if's" to deal with.
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