Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.
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Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#423542
Feb 19, 2013
 
LTM wrote:
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Good Morning, "Sadan" you are an early riser to I see!
It is another snowing day in the great white Northern part of Canada, the good news is that it has warmed up quite a bit, it's only -4 warming up to -1 balmy weather.
Kids have had so many snow days, the teachers didn't need to go on strike. Snow shoes, ski-doo's, and snowmobles is the normal things to drive up here this time of year.
The snow sounds fun!

I'm sporting a true redneck, as I spent the entire day outside yesterday doing outdoor home improvement projects. Should've worn sunscreen! I'm not sure what the temp was but I wore a T-shirt comfortably all day.

Never been to northern Canada. An hour and a half north of Toronto is as far up as I've traveled. Pretty farms up that way though with very rich deep black soil. Black squirrels too - strange looking to Alabamians.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

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#423543
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt. 7:14 Per your second to last sentence.
"Sadan, is there anything new under the sun.

Since the Bible really does not say much at all about music ministers, it is difficult to arrive at an explicitly biblical position on women music ministers / worship leaders. After the exodus, Miriam functioned in at least one instance as somewhat of a worship leader (Exodus 15:20-21). At the Tabernacle, male Levites seem to be the ones who led in worship (Numbers 8:25-26; 1 Chronicles 9:33). In Judges 5, Deborah and Barak led the Israelites in a song. Second Samuel 19:35 and Second Chronicles 35:25 mention “singing men and women”(see also Ecclesiastes 2:8).

David appointed men from among the Levites (1 Chronicles 15:16-24), who were skilled singers and used brass cymbals, harps, trumpets, and other instruments to accompany the singing. First Chronicles 5:12-13 gives a description of the Levites who led the music at the dedication of Solomon's temple, and they were all men. In the days of the rebuilding of the Temple, the sons of the Levites were appointed to lead the music in the Temple service (Ezra 3:10; Nehemiah 12:24). Psalm 68:25 says, "The singers went before, the players on instruments followed after; among them were the damsels playing with timbrels." The women were participating in, but not leading, the worship.

The New Testament contains no specific instructions or examples of how worship was, or should be, practiced in the Christian church. The New Testament nowhere speaks positively or negatively regarding female music ministers / worship leaders. Some point to 1 Timothy 2:12, that a woman is not to teach or take authority over a man, as a prohibition against women leading men in worship. However, this text is better understood as focusing on the pastoral role of shepherding/teaching than on other forms of leadership. Further, it is questionable whether leading worship involves any “authority” that would violate 1 Timothy 2:12. In what sense does a worship leader have authority over the worshippers? Could a woman lead with an instrument, but just not with her voice? Does not a woman playing piano/organ in some sense result in her “leading” the worship?

Generally speaking, it would seem that with the consistent pattern of male leadership in the church, it would be best for men to serve in the role of worship leader / music minister. At the same time, there is nothing explicit in Scripture that would forbid women from serving in the role. Many women are undeniably very gifted/skilled in worship, whether by voice or instrument. These gifts most definitely should not be ignored or neglected:“addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart”(Ephesians 5:19 ESV).
gotquestions.org
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

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#423544
Feb 19, 2013
 

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God and Music
God and the Arts, Part Three

By Kevin Stone

Thanks ... to Whom?

In their 1977 song “Thank You for the Music,” the Swedish group ABBA express their gratitude for all things musical. The lyrics, which address an unnamed Giver of Music, acknowledge that music is a gift that brings joy, and that, at the core, we are musical creatures.“What would life be?” the song asks.“Without a song or a dance, what are we?”

The song then raises some good questions concerning the origin of music:“I've often wondered, how did it all start?/ Who found out that nothing can capture a heart / Like a melody can?” Lead vocalist Agnetha Fältskog gives a decidedly ambiguous answer:“Well, whoever it was, I'm a fan.” The mysterious Muse is appreciated, but unknown.

Johann Sebastian Bach would have given the question “Who created music?” a very different answer. Bach once said,“I play the notes as they are written but it is God who makes the music.” No uncertainty there. No vague equivocations. The Giver of Music is God. At the beginning and end of each piece of sacred music he composed, Bach wrote the letters “S.D.G.” an abbreviation of Soli Deo gloria (“glory to God alone”). Bach’s dedication of each song was a simple acknowledgment of his view of the music’s source.

From Heaven with Love

Both Bach and ABBA agree that music is a joyful thing. Both used music to communicate to the world. A key difference between them, besides the instruments they played, is their view of the origin of music. Bach saw music as a personal gift from the Creator of the universe. ABBA was curious enough to ask the question “who?” but then shrugged and concluded that it didn’t really matter.

So, where does music come from? Biblically speaking, Bach was right. His assessment of music’s origin was the same as David’s, who said,“He has put a new song in my mouth”(Psalm 40:3). David sang, but it was God who made the music.

Music is a creation of God, a gift that He has bestowed upon humanity. Music was present at the creation of the world, when “the morning stars sang together”(Job 38:7). The Bible is full of songs. Whole books are dedicated to preserving the Spirit-inspired songs of God’s people (Psalms, Song of Solomon). Many of the prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Habakkuk, wrote songs as part of their oracles.

The inescapable conclusion is that God is a musical God, and He has made us musical creatures. Our ability to produce, understand, and enjoy music is evidence of God’s image in us. Jesus sang with His disciples (Mark 14:26); God is depicted as singing for joy over His people (Zephaniah 3:17); when the Spirit fills a person, He brings a song with Him (Ephesians 5:18-19; Colossians 3:16).

Many musicians practice their art without ever giving conscious tribute to the God who made music in the first place. Some of them, like ABBA, seem to be aware that music does not originate with them, but they carry on in happy ignorance of the divine Source of their gift. It is the Christian musician who knows the Giver of Music and willingly becomes an earthly sounding board to amplify the music of heaven.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

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#423545
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Justice wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been to a Pentecostal service where they have a stage and a band. It is very centered around the music. I think its called entertainment worship, centered around rock and roll. Dancing away to rock music, guitars drums and rock music. I realise they want to bring in young people, but am not sure that this is the best way to do it. Strikes me a in some way sacrilegious and lacking in respect. Cant quite put my finger on why, but it creeped me out. Maybe it works for some people, but I had a difficult time relating to it.
False teaching...
Truth

Leesburg, VA

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#423546
Feb 19, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
When I've gone to funerals in a building with a big pipe organ I've noticed I cannot hear my own singing over the huge sound of the machine and I can't hear anyone else's singing either.
I enjoy contemporary Christian music and I listen to it fairly often, and the words do teach the listener. But, there may be something wrong if I need the attraction of a free concert in order to go to church. Plus, if I want to go tent camping with friends over the weekend I don't have to tote a pipe organ or band in order to worship God on Sunday morning. ;)
We're finding music in worship isn't the bring everyone together solution. Lots of divisiveness in the denominational world about what type of music they like for their worship, whether to use drums or even just sticking to a piano only. Many have gone to two worship services because of the disagreement over the types of music and songs.
God wants everything to come from our hearts....
Clay

Chicago, IL

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#423547
Feb 19, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure why he would either, but worship is to please Him. Worship is not intended for our entertainment or pleasure. As soon as I find a NT example of instruments (other than the one in us that God created) being used in worship, I will avoid their use. No one has ever shown me how it would be sinful for me to not use one for worship.
Better safe than sorry.
Wait a second. You're demanding that God reveal to you in the NT, an example of a musical instrument being played at worship, then you'll accept playing and creating music for him?

How about just using His gift of logic?
Clay

Chicago, IL

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#423548
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt. 7:14 Per your second to last sentence.
Matthew 7:14

Narrow is the gate.'

I'm not sure I why you would sling this one at me. It has nothing to do with anything I said.

Saban, to use the Holy Scriptures like that is a sin. You guy throw these verses around like snowballs.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#423549
Feb 19, 2013
 
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
-
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<quoted text>
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SNACK TIME?
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au contraire - The partaking of the bread and the wine is a serious celebration and not to be taken lightly.
Well, not very serious. You reduce it to bread and wine when Christ in John 6 said clearly that we are to partake of His Body and Blood.
Your rejection of Him in this regard renders it a mid-meeting snack, or represents you being "in communion" with ..... bread.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#423550
Feb 19, 2013
 
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Good Morning, "Sadan" you are an early riser to I see!
It is another snowing day in the great white Northern part of Canada, the good news is that it has warmed up quite a bit, it's only -4 warming up to -1 balmy weather.
Kids have had so many snow days, the teachers didn't need to go on strike. Snow shoes, ski-doo's, and snowmobles is the normal things to drive up here this time of year.
We had two big snow accumulations two years ago. We were able to get our RZR out to play in it. Streets were closed for a couple of days and we had so much fun with our neighbors! Snows sticking like that are so few and far between down here. Haven't had over an inch of snow on the ground since.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#423551
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
As I clearly wrote -- "It summarizes the apology."
The entire RCC statement is easily found.
Fearful Dan is in full avoidance mode. Arguments which penetrate into his magic aura are not dealt with rationally but by pseudo-reasoning.
e.g. "the link wasn't good enough" -- not that the statement was in any way wrong. Typical attack on the messenger in order to avoid the message.
LOL
It does "summarize the aplogy" as it fails to reference to whom the apology is made, for what and by whom.

"Easily find" me the full statement.

The link was bad-some of the info on it was wrong and it it didn't cite a thing-again, two hausfraus holding court. Definitive for you, perhaps, but not for me.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#423552
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
As I clearly wrote -- "It summarizes the apology."
The entire RCC statement is easily found.
Fearful Dan is in full avoidance mode. Arguments which penetrate into his magic aura are not dealt with rationally but by pseudo-reasoning.
e.g. "the link wasn't good enough" -- not that the statement was in any way wrong. Typical attack on the messenger in order to avoid the message.
LOL
Correction: does NOT summarize the apology.

Stop pouting. Your citations are crap.

Fix it. Get decent citations or go away for a while and learn how to do it and come back.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#423553
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
Allow me to correct -- "native" slave labor.
But I have already agreed with Dan. I was wrong.
Most of the gold adorning the Vatican came from happy, unionized natives who always wanted to be miners. The Vatican was appreciative and honored their labor by seeing that they were paid top dollar.
The funding to build the Vatican came from unsolicited donations in quantities that can only be considered a divine miracle. Under no circumstances were indulgences ever sold. No promises were ever made. All giving was out of love, never out of fear.
Catholics love La La Land.
Can't cite that either?

Holy crap, FM. You're peeing into fan and you won't stop.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#423554
Feb 19, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a second. You're demanding that God reveal to you in the NT, an example of a musical instrument being played at worship, then you'll accept playing and creating music for him?
How about just using His gift of logic?
Too many examples of people finding their sinful fate by implementing their own logic rather than following the commandments of God. I highlighted MANY examples of this for you earlier this morning.
I'm not demanding anything of God.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#423555
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Matthew 7:14
Narrow is the gate.'
I'm not sure I why you would sling this one at me. It has nothing to do with anything I said.
Saban, to use the Holy Scriptures like that is a sin. You guy throw these verses around like snowballs.
You said you thought we were the only one's that followed the NT pattern for worship. The Bible doesn't say getting to heaven is a democracy and the most popular wins. I just thought a reminder of what Matt. 7:14 says would let you know I will never care what men think or even if I'm among the least popular. If we're so different, we may be doing something right.
Saban fan

Duluth, GA

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#423556
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
God wants everything to come from our hearts....
Right. Everything in the OT focused on the physical while the NT focuses on the spiritual.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

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#423557
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Right. Everything in the OT focused on the physical while the NT focuses on the spiritual.
Exactly!

I have been waiting a long time for someone to state this.....finally....
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#423558
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me the scripture proving I contradict scripture to allow my children to hear, believe, repent and confess before their baptism.
Peter gave directions the day the church came into being. He's not contradicting Jesus' earlier words at all he's just informing us how to be baptized. Ignore him if you think he lied, but I'll follow his instructions and in doing so I'm following Jesus' instructions too.
John 3:5.

Do you deny baptism until your children can perform an act to your satisfaction?
Truth

Leesburg, VA

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#423559
Feb 19, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a second. You're demanding that God reveal to you in the NT, an example of a musical instrument being played at worship, then you'll accept playing and creating music for him?
How about just using His gift of logic?
The instrument to be played is the heart in which we must pay close attention to the words.

God wants everything to come from your heart....
truth

Australia

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#423560
Feb 19, 2013
 
Are you for sure in that?
I can be very argumentive..
ativ dativ dati sve od srca svoga=love=i can be very emotional as well very very explosive too.
Now what you want from heart.
If you going aeiou
heart
heart
hirt
hort
hurt see explosive

now
if you going like this
ljubav or lubav
see what i try tell you
labuv
lebuv
libuv
lobuv
lubul

labu''d''if i conect that as i have today

now
go in church cathedral in perth then see
inside in cathedral what wrote there around
altar as well inside monument
Did you need make someone free..
please tell me
How much you love me?
Truth will set you free.
Elisabet did you kiss me trough my dreams..my vision..what they say about us humans..we are depend about our dreams..we build our future depend on our dreams trough mind.
Elisabeth..Did you do that?
see altar..tears
atemcowboy

Waverly, OH

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#423561
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Marge,
I guess you do not believe the Apostle Peter when he speaks those words....
been dareing you to find ONE person in the NT that received the Holy Ghost when they got baptised.

why dont you produce it if those words of Petter mean what You say they mean?

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