Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 679235 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Justice

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#423388 Feb 18, 2013
oh and btw for any lurkers, the good news is that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton Son and if you believe in Jesus Christ you shall not perish but have eternal life.
Free Mind

Melbourne, FL

#423389 Feb 18, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Just google "John Paul II apology" and you'll get some info.
What 1826 Catechism are you referring to?
The question was specifically about the apology from Vatican 2. It was relevant to the topic and this board.

Thomas Jefferson died in 1826. I was referring to the Catechism in effect at that time.

What did Catholic teachings say about Thomas Jefferson's chances of salvation in 1826?

Hint: the RCC's "perfect" teachings changed 100% since then.

The inner defenses are unconscious -- so it is possible you have no idea how much you have been spinning.

You went from Vatican 2 to John Paul II apologies without skipping a beat.

The magic aura that your mind builds around your cherished beliefs allow for such spin.

Arguments which penetrate into the magic aura are not dealt with rationally but by a specific type of pseudo-reasoning.

Like somehow, the church can change a "perfect teaching" 180 degrees -- and the former perfect teaching somehow never existed and there were no consequences of that teaching.

Absurdities and contradictions are made acceptable.

But that doesn't change what would be considered reality or truth in a court of law -- or by any accepted standard of debate.

You have faith, not facts. If a "perfect teaching" changes 180 degrees -- then is was never perfect in the first place.

Thus..... the one-true claim is busted.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#423390 Feb 18, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Took a lot longer to type this mess than it would have to for you to remember the question you asked me yourself and I answered three times now.
Maybe instead of trying to be clever or veering off with expositions on Obama, you could limit your efforts to staying on topic.
I was very much on topic. How is there any difference between a Cardinal and a Czar. Both are paid from the public treasury and neither position has been approved by the founder?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#423391 Feb 18, 2013
Justice wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you find sermons boring ;) I do sometimes, its human nature! The "middle management" exists in every church I know of. Unless you are going to set up another denomination of your own :) The problem with private interpretation is everyone comes up with different ideas. You need to have some consistency.
Also the commission is to >preach< the good news. Not >read< the good news. THAT is an important point imho.
Check my consistency!
The middle management did not exist in the 1st century church and it doesn't exist in Christ's church today.
Free Mind

Melbourne, FL

#423392 Feb 18, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
FM-
Get serious.
I mean, I'll answer questions, but I';m not going to dissect Jack Chick tracts with you.
It's "Benito" and that treaty didn't "empower" the church.
More rationalization.

I posted verifiable facts which you dismiss as Jack Chick mayerial.

But you specifically do not present any evidence to refute the facts.

FACT #1... the RCC palace you call the Vatican was indeed financed largely through the sale of indulgences, adorned with gold stolen from and mined by Indian slaves.

This is factual, Jesus would never call for such a thing, you know it, so your mind dismisses irrefutable fact as somehow Jack Chick.

"... for ye shall know them by their deeds."

FACT #2... Bonito Mussolini gave the Church statehood, and later it used state power (diplomatic immunity) to avoid justice for sexually-abuse orphans and deaf children.

This is factual, Jesus would never call for such a thing, you know it, so your mind dismisses irrefutable fact as somehow Jack Chick.

Mind games, because the facts presented are 100% veritably true.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#423393 Feb 18, 2013
Justice wrote:
<quoted text>
lol. These hard core anti-Catholics hate to be reminded that they have taken a pair of scissors to John's gospel.
I just re-read John 3 and I don't find anything that validates Catholic teaching over any other.

About to re-read John 6. I have no idea what point Dan was trying to make and I have no idea how you think I've taken a pair of scissors to these scriptures.
7th Day Catholic Rocks

Poplar Bluff, MO

#423394 Feb 18, 2013
Dan

Omaha, NE

#423395 Feb 18, 2013
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
The question was specifically about the apology from Vatican 2. It was relevant to the topic and this board.
Thomas Jefferson died in 1826. I was referring to the Catechism in effect at that time.
What did Catholic teachings say about Thomas Jefferson's chances of salvation in 1826?
Hint: the RCC's "perfect" teachings changed 100% since then.
The inner defenses are unconscious -- so it is possible you have no idea how much you have been spinning.
You went from Vatican 2 to John Paul II apologies without skipping a beat.
The magic aura that your mind builds around your cherished beliefs allow for such spin.
Arguments which penetrate into the magic aura are not dealt with rationally but by a specific type of pseudo-reasoning.
Like somehow, the church can change a "perfect teaching" 180 degrees -- and the former perfect teaching somehow never existed and there were no consequences of that teaching.
Absurdities and contradictions are made acceptable.
But that doesn't change what would be considered reality or truth in a court of law -- or by any accepted standard of debate.
You have faith, not facts. If a "perfect teaching" changes 180 degrees -- then is was never perfect in the first place.
Thus..... the one-true claim is busted.
What apology was issued at Vatican II?

Can you cite it? I googled for same and located what I provided-JPII's papcy is Post-Vatican II.

To my knowledge, the Catechism did not teach that any non-Catholic persons are to go to Hell.

I assume that since you're leaning on some 1826 iteration of the Catechism that you actually have it as a reference. Am I incorrect in this assumption?
Dan

Omaha, NE

#423396 Feb 18, 2013
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
More rationalization.
I posted verifiable facts which you dismiss as Jack Chick mayerial.
But you specifically do not present any evidence to refute the facts.
FACT #1... the RCC palace you call the Vatican was indeed financed largely through the sale of indulgences, adorned with gold stolen from and mined by Indian slaves.
This is factual, Jesus would never call for such a thing, you know it, so your mind dismisses irrefutable fact as somehow Jack Chick.
"... for ye shall know them by their deeds."
FACT #2... Bonito Mussolini gave the Church statehood, and later it used state power (diplomatic immunity) to avoid justice for sexually-abuse orphans and deaf children.
This is factual, Jesus would never call for such a thing, you know it, so your mind dismisses irrefutable fact as somehow Jack Chick.
Mind games, because the facts presented are 100% veritably true.
The treaty did not establish diplomatic immunity, so you're factually incorrect.

Again.

Please cite the slave labor used in construction of the Vatican.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#423397 Feb 18, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Check my consistency!
The middle management did not exist in the 1st century church and it doesn't exist in Christ's church today.
???

No priests nor ministers in early Christianity?
Dan

Omaha, NE

#423398 Feb 18, 2013
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
More rationalization.
I posted verifiable facts which you dismiss as Jack Chick mayerial.
But you specifically do not present any evidence to refute the facts.
FACT #1... the RCC palace you call the Vatican was indeed financed largely through the sale of indulgences, adorned with gold stolen from and mined by Indian slaves.
This is factual, Jesus would never call for such a thing, you know it, so your mind dismisses irrefutable fact as somehow Jack Chick.
"... for ye shall know them by their deeds."
FACT #2... Bonito Mussolini gave the Church statehood, and later it used state power (diplomatic immunity) to avoid justice for sexually-abuse orphans and deaf children.
This is factual, Jesus would never call for such a thing, you know it, so your mind dismisses irrefutable fact as somehow Jack Chick.
Mind games, because the facts presented are 100% veritably true.
Jesus didn't call for any mining nor construction. Of anything for anything by anyone. Does your home meet with Jesus' disapproval?

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. Is this why you think the RCC condemned him to Hell?
Dan

Omaha, NE

#423399 Feb 18, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I just re-read John 3 and I don't find anything that validates Catholic teaching over any other.
About to re-read John 6. I have no idea what point Dan was trying to make and I have no idea how you think I've taken a pair of scissors to these scriptures.
Jesus declares baptism a requirement for salvation without any exceptions made.

You would deny an infant baptism as the infant cannot perform an act to your satisfaction. This contradicts scripture.

John 6 has Jesus telling us that we must partake in His Body and Blood. If (I don't know) you believe that your Lord's Supper is simply symbolic of this, this belief contradicts scripture.

You can let me know at your convenience.
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#423400 Feb 18, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
You're making my point for me.
If one studies to make themselves approved, you can't leave out the means for said person to know they are correct in their conclusions. The Church, given to us by Christ, provides this anchor. Otherwise, everyone decalres themselves "approved". See this board for an illustration of this. "Duelling Bibles".
If everyone is able to instruct themselves in Scripture and thus is free to affirm their personal judgement upon them, then there cannot be a "false teacher"; If everyone is free to render their own verdict upon scriptur,e without appeal to an authoritative interpretation, you get doctrinal chaos-protestantism and its offshoots.
Who is your Anchor Dan , mine is Jesus.
God will teach His people , through the power of the Holy Spirit.
I have been read several post from you and other catholic's on here with out responding to them for the last few days.
Then it hit me you are very confused, your understand of scripture is nil. Confusion is not from God, even your own pope from his own word clearing can't distingish evil from good, citing it was acceptable to sexual abuse children, in the 70's.
Which is a lie, because men and woman in the 70's and before were jailed for having sex with children.
Woman and men who were sexually abused as children have come forward and telling some of the aweful tortured abuse they have suffered as children.(as children they knew what was happing to them was not normal).
I feel very sorry and floored that you all have accepted what has happened to the children of catholic's like yourself.
You also have allowed POpes down through history dictated , what is acceptable because they have said it is, even though anyone with a brain knows in their heart that wrong is wrong .
Do you believe its noraml to sexually abuse children?? if you go along with your pope you do, because if you are not part of the salution you are part of the problem.
Maybe he is trying to make excuses for himself and the priest he has protected over many decades.
It is time for the catholic people to stand united , and speak out against this evil institution.
if any of you are truly christian and love God you would stand on the side of God and not on the side of this evil gross cancer that has ate its way through history.
With all the info you have read and seen and heard you still deny the truth .
God have mercy on your soul, and I pray God protects your innocent children from this evil.
Clay

Melrose Park, IL

#423401 Feb 18, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's several examples where it says it:
http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/B...
There were no examples in your link. I skimmed over it and saw nothing to support sola scripture.

I did see something about musical instruments. I find this teaching of your church about as bizarre as I've ever heard. There is no rationale to think God would get offended at His creation for using their gift He gave them, to create beautiful music for Him. I just don't get it.
I really believe this is proof your elders are not guided by the Holy Spirit to truth.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#423402 Feb 18, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is your Anchor Dan , mine is Jesus.
God will teach His people , through the power of the Holy Spirit.
I have been read several post from you and other catholic's on here with out responding to them for the last few days.
Then it hit me you are very confused, your understand of scripture is nil. Confusion is not from God, even your own pope from his own word clearing can't distingish evil from good, citing it was acceptable to sexual abuse children, in the 70's.
Which is a lie, because men and woman in the 70's and before were jailed for having sex with children.
Woman and men who were sexually abused as children have come forward and telling some of the aweful tortured abuse they have suffered as children.(as children they knew what was happing to them was not normal).
I feel very sorry and floored that you all have accepted what has happened to the children of catholic's like yourself.
You also have allowed POpes down through history dictated , what is acceptable because they have said it is, even though anyone with a brain knows in their heart that wrong is wrong .
Do you believe its noraml to sexually abuse children?? if you go along with your pope you do, because if you are not part of the salution you are part of the problem.
Maybe he is trying to make excuses for himself and the priest he has protected over many decades.
It is time for the catholic people to stand united , and speak out against this evil institution.
if any of you are truly christian and love God you would stand on the side of God and not on the side of this evil gross cancer that has ate its way through history.
With all the info you have read and seen and heard you still deny the truth .
God have mercy on your soul, and I pray God protects your innocent children from this evil.
Jesus, your "anchor", established the Church in scripture. I understand that yet you deny it.

Don't worry about what you think I "understand", LTM. You have problems of your own here.

Noted that in lieu of a scripturally-based rebuttal, you played the sex scandal card.
rider

Gwinn, MI

#423403 Feb 18, 2013
In 1981, a scandal arose after the police discovery of Licio Gelli's secret quasi-Masonic lodge Propaganda 2 (P2), which aimed to change the Italian political system to a more authoritarian regime. The list of people involved in P2 included members of the secret services and some prominent characters from political arena, business, military and media. Silvio Berlusconi, who was then just starting to gain popularity as the founder and owner of "Canale 5" TV channel, was listed as a member of P2.[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berluscon ... Propaganda Due (Italian pronunciation:[propa&#712; &#609;anda &#712;du&#720;e]), or P2, was a Masonic lodge operating under the jurisdiction of the Grand Orient of Italy from 1945 to 1976 (when its charter was withdrawn), and a pseudo-Masonic, "black", or "covert" lodge operating illegally (in contravention of Article 18 of the Constitution of Italy banning secret associations) from 1976 to 1981. During the years that the lodge was headed by Licio Gelli, P2 was implicated in numerous Italian crimes and mysteries, including the collapse of the Vatican-affiliated Banco Ambrosiano, the murders of journalist Mino Pecorelli and banker Roberto Calvi, and corruption cases within the nationwide bribe scandal Tangentopoli. P2 came to light through the investigations into the collapse of Michele Sindona's financial empire.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due The role of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in sponsoring Gladio and the extent of its activities during the Cold War era, and its relationship to right-wing terrorist attacks perpetrated in Italy during the "Years of Lead" (late 1960s to early 1980s) and other similar clandestine operations is the subject of ongoing debate and investigation but never proved. Switzerland and Belgium have had parliamentary inquiries into the matter.[3]
CIA director Allen Dulles was one of the key people in instituting Operation Gladio, and most of Gladio’s operations were financed by the CIA.[citation needed] The anti-communist networks, which were present in all of Europe, including in neutral countries like Sweden and Switzerland, were partly funded by the CIA.[6] Some went as far as claiming that Christian Democrat (Democrazia Cristiana) leader Aldo Moro, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#423404 Feb 18, 2013
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you Dan. That is not what I have read however.
"It apologized for contributing to Christian disunity and the mistakes made during the Counter-Reformation."
http://www.netplaces.com/catholicism/moderniz...
Crusades, Inquisitions? I didn't realize. Please post links. Thanks.
Otherwise, WHAT Catechism are you talking about?
Today's Catechism, or the Catechism as written in 1826?
There bare some BIG differences in those "perfect teachings" that you rationalize away.
I already told them about the catechism's are changed , they didn't believe me.
There really isn't much that hasn't been prove through scriptures ex catholic's and protestant, and out of the mouth of their own pope. To know that we are not liars.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#423405 Feb 18, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I was very much on topic. How is there any difference between a Cardinal and a Czar. Both are paid from the public treasury and neither position has been approved by the founder?
What "public treasury" pays for a Cardinal's stipend?

All along I thought it was contributions by the faithful.

Does this work differently in your church? How do you pay the minister?
Dan

Omaha, NE

#423406 Feb 18, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
I already told them about the catechism's are changed , they didn't believe me.
There really isn't much that hasn't been prove through scriptures ex catholic's and protestant, and out of the mouth of their own pope. To know that we are not liars.
Why not simply cite that which you claim is true?
Dan

Omaha, NE

#423407 Feb 18, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
I already told them about the catechism's are changed , they didn't believe me.
There really isn't much that hasn't been prove through scriptures ex catholic's and protestant, and out of the mouth of their own pope. To know that we are not liars.
Hint:

FM's weblink wasn't to the Catechism.

They never are. They are always to what someone SAYS the Church teaches, never to what they actually DO teach.

He knows that actual citation of sources would undercut his "arguments", so he studiously avoids it. As you do.

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