Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

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Clay

United States

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#422097
Feb 12, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Romans 16:16b
"All the churches of Christ send greetings."
All the "Churches of Christ" were later called Universal or Catholic. The earliest known document is from 110 AD. And the title was used so casual then, that one could imply that it was a title already in use before that.
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

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#422098
Feb 12, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
When I speak about the authority of scripture you tell me this: "Catholics do NOT believe that ONLY the Bible informs their faith"
Where is the authority in scripture if it is not all I need?
What did God miss in scripture that I should be aware of?
.
A table of contents.

Rob

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422099
Feb 12, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm glad you didn't-it barely rose above "speculative".
Sorry - speculation leading to an affirmative "dogma" on the part of men is bullshite to begin with - "bogus".
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say a thing about "Less than six of the original 13 Apostles".
That's because I did. You see, Christianity has caused you and many others to beleive what men put in front of them, without questioning its validity.

Your team chose LESS THAN SIX of the original 13 Apostles to be the "faith" and focus of belief and faith.

It isn't my fault you only accept the half of Jesus' teachings that don't mean squat, except for teh gullible, uninformed.

BTW - this all falls under "Self" and the ability it tries to shine forth. But you refuse to see it this way.
Clay

United States

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#422100
Feb 12, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
But it is SO EASY because the Apostasy has come so far...
I feel joy in my heart knowing that it is only Catholic traditions you can use to prove my religion wrong rather than God's Word.
Again, you're relying on the authority of the Catholic Church at Rome, that compiled those letters, memoirs and Prophecies into a Bible and authoritatively added it to the 46 books of the Jewish scriptures.(7 more than the official Jewish canon)

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422101
Feb 12, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
With all due respect, I'd have a bit more time for you if you hadn't posited your "JPI's early death vitiates apostolic succession" bit.
As it stands, we'll agree to disagree.
Thanks for the discussion, Dan.
concerned in Eygpt

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#422102
Feb 12, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
You just answered your question if you examine it.
Paul is writing to the Church that is in communion with the Apostles. He is not addressing Martin Luther. He is not addressing John Calvin, Confrinting, Preston, Harold Camping, nor you and the other 42,000 groups today.
There were heretics in his day too. He doesn't write broad letters to the people so they can 'figure out their own Christianity'. He is writing the Catholic Churches in Gal, Romans, Corinthians...
Gal 1:8 "but even if we or an Angel in Heaven preach another gospel other then the one we have preached to you, let them be under Gods curse"
This letter is to the Church and the Bishops the Apostles ordained. It is NOT a personal letter to you.
Are you for real.

"This letter is to the Church and the Bishops the Apostles ordained. It is NOT a personal letter to you. "

All the NT books are not a personal letter to anyone.
They are letters to believes in Jesus the Christ.

Thus they are letters to All Christians.
If we take your statement to its conclusion None of the Bible apples to anyone today because it is not personally addressed to anyone alive today.

It means none of the Early Church Fathers Letters apply to us.

You don't get to pick and choose verses as you see fit, you have become what you accuse protestants of a Pope unto yourself.

I find your reference to 42000 denominations quite interesting as well you do know that list includes 1000 RC sects such as the Jesuits for example it counts Baptist sects for each county they are in.

Even Revelation had 7 churches all with their issues never the less all of them were Christian.

Regional and cultural affiliation does not make any one sect less Christian its the essential doctrines that do.

Your Sect practices Idol worship, teaches a gospel contrary to the NT, indulgences Not Biblical, Purgatory Not Biblical.

In point of fact the the One true not christian sect in that list for sure is the RCC.
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

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#422103
Feb 12, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The church was built on Peter's confession, not on Peter. Jesus is the cornerstone and all of the apostles are the foundation.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.asp...
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.asp...
What was Peter's mother-in-law's name? Does the Catholic church have a record of her name in their files?
What difference does that make?

The Church does not claim that Peter was not married. Scripture says that he was, or at the very least, there was a woman he had taken responsibilty for.(A somewhat twisted reading, just barely possible. Much more likely she was his wife's mother.)

This was a problem for Alberto Rivera, but he was a bit of an idiot. Any seminarian who asked such a question in class would have been reminded that clerical celibacy in the Western Church post-dates the middle ages, and that Peter was married according to scripture. The CC does not teach otherwise.

If you are going to try anti-Catholicism, you will need something better than A"Alberto" comic books.

Try this: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-anti-catho...

Boettner's "Roman Catholicism" is not particularly well-researched, and he did not understand much of what he was reading, but at least he is sufficiently popular with the anti-Catholic crowd that you will be a hit at parties.

Avoid Chiniquay and Maria Monk, as even hardened anti-Catholics have begun to catch on that they were both crackpots.

Good luck.

Rob

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422104
Feb 12, 2013
 

Judged:

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
You're a man and you're trying to tell me what I should and shouldn't believe.
Pot, kettle, black.
Self.
Incorrect conclusion.

I've shown you documentation that blatantly states that your team only chose to beleive what they chose, and not a complete Jesus.

I've only brought these texts up and into the forefront so others can see their misleading lies that are being perpetuated by others as "Truth". They aren't.

You get to choose to believe whatever you want, so with you stating I am telling you to believe a certain way, is false and lying.

Why don't you:
a. Believe all of what Jesus taught?
b. believe the teachings of the remaining 7 original Apostles, if they are Jesus' followers and would have rcvd the same teachings as the other six?
c. Jesus is more enlightened than Paul, considering the NT contain so many of Paul's letters, but very few words by Jesus?

And if you were honest enough with yourself and others, you would be truthful and admit your faults openly and without fear of others ridiculing you.

But I keep forgetting, you are "Catholic", and to speak out against what you thoink is "true" is heresy. A heresy that was only devised by the men you think "know God".

You are clueless.

By the way - please don't presume you know what I mean in my posts. Ask me before you start making unfounded statements about me.
Why don't you believe Jesus?
Clay

United States

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#422105
Feb 12, 2013
 
concerned in Eygpt wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you for real.
"This letter is to the Church and the Bishops the Apostles ordained. It is NOT a personal letter to you. "
All the NT books are not a personal letter to anyone.
They are letters to believes in Jesus the Christ.
Thus they are letters to All Christians.
If we take your statement to its conclusion None of the Bible apples to anyone today because it is not personally addressed to anyone alive today.
It means none of the Early Church Fathers Letters apply to us.
You don't get to pick and choose verses as you see fit, you have become what you accuse protestants of a Pope unto yourself.
I find your reference to 42000 denominations quite interesting as well you do know that list includes 1000 RC sects such as the Jesuits for example it counts Baptist sects for each county they are in.
Even Revelation had 7 churches all with their issues never the less all of them were Christian.
Regional and cultural affiliation does not make any one sect less Christian its the essential doctrines that do.
Your Sect practices Idol worship, teaches a gospel contrary to the NT, indulgences Not Biblical, Purgatory Not Biblical.
In point of fact the the One true not christian sect in that list for sure is the RCC.
So let me get this straight: you believe the folks at Corinth all gathered around when Pauls letter arrived; they announced "we got another one from Paul!" Then they promptly passed it around for each one to determine what the latest Christian teachings are?
Help me out here brother.

He was writing to the Church!

Since: Jun 10

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#422106
Feb 12, 2013
 
046
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Fear not.
All of these Catholic beliefs are predicated in Scripture.
You are delusional!!!!

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422107
Feb 12, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
To clarify, my faith isn't in Pope Pius XII-it's in Christ instructing us through His Church without possibility of error.
The so-called "Church" has never been defined completely.

Do you have additional substance that is pertinent?

Better yet, please post your definition of "the Church", and let the forum decide.

Thanks!
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

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#422108
Feb 12, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
We believe the Woman is Mary.
Thanks
Ehhhh....

More probable reading is that "the woman clothed with the sun" is "the Church."

Yes, she "brings forth a son," but I would not read that as a literal birth, but the Church "proclaiming" ("giving birth to,"/"bringing forth") the Gospel, the "Word of God." (Which, since Jesus IS "the Word," fits nicely with the symbolism of giving birth, if you use the Blessed Mother as a symbolic placeholder. Then you get the place in the desert (The Flight into Egypt/The Captivity Under Pharoh.)

The richness of meaning in SS is truly breathtaking.

Rob

Since: Jun 10

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#422109
Feb 12, 2013
 
052
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
You deny that Christ established the Church in scripture?
You better hold on to your own fans.
Show me the proper noun "Church" in the following.....you can't, because it ain't in there...the noun "church" is....

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against

Show me "Roman Catholic church"....."church " as in Scripture....

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422110
Feb 12, 2013
 

Judged:

1

New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:

Men choosing what other men are to believe.
Yep - no "God" involved, yet you expressively state "an article of faith revealed by God".
"He" did - when? where? to whom?
Citation "from God" please.
Or, you being like other so-called "Catholics" will begin to spin the discussion in some other direction, like back at me?
We'll see how honest you really are.
I'll wait.
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
You're a man and you're trying to tell me what I should and shouldn't believe.
Pot, kettle, black.
Self.
Ah yes - avoiding the citation post. I figured as much.

That is because you can't be honest enough with me to admit, that one doesn't exist, huh?

When you want to learn, come talk to me. Until then.....go back under the robe, where it seems you find the comfort you accept.

Since: Jun 10

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#422111
Feb 12, 2013
 
057
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Common noun, proper noun. I employ the proper noun when discussing the Catholic Church.
Christ established one church.
We believe the Catholic Church is that church.
I know what you believe...and it is a false belief...based on Scripture changes that you make....

043

You have to change Scripture to believe your false belief....you change "church" which is a common noun, to a proper noun (Church)..

church: ekklesia, a calling out, i.e.(concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both):--assembly, church.

The Greek word for church does not show any denominations as part of its definition.....that's why you have to change Scripture to support your false belief......
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

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#422112
Feb 12, 2013
 

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New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
- it has already been debunked when one Pope died in about a month from taking the papacy. Thus, showing that he did not receive all the necessary "mysteries" the succession supposedly offers to each.
!
!

!!!

Mrph!

Heh.

Hehhehchuckckle.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Thank you, New Age. You've given me a new topper, one that beats out "Yes you do [worship saints], They just didn't TELL you."

You win the RobDye prize for unconscious ignorance.

Congrats!

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422113
Feb 12, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
What teachings have been amended by the Church?
The back and forth of many "doctrines" or "dogma" had occurred many times.

Even with you stating the Assumption of Mary as dogma (in 1950) is a prime example that men chose to believe this, and not "God" or any wording in the Bible.

Unless you have a specific text that proves what was said in 1950 is accurate to pre-100 CE?

Do you?

I doubt it. Thus the doctrine was still within the "litigation" of men.

Really Dan? You didn't knwo this?

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Wars-Patriarchs-E...
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#422114
Feb 12, 2013
 
Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeh.
This is actually on-topic for the thread, believe it or not.
It involves the use of the word "church," as it was used in the papal statement that was misused to start this particular hydra.
A "church" in this usage would be an "ecclesial coomunity presided over by someone with authority from Jesus."
In the earliest churches, that would be apostles.
After the apostles, that cam to be known as episkopos - "guardian," "overseer," "bishop."
All the churches referred to in the verse would have had someone appointed by the apostles, or appointed by someone appointed by the apostles, etc.
They were "true churches," just as the pope referred to in the document.
Other communities would not be "true churches," (not meaning "false churches," but rather, something not best described by the term "church." They were faith communities, and they may have had the fullness of apostolic faith and doctrine, but if they lacked a bishop, they were not, strictly speaking, a church.
Perhaps better than "The Baptist church is not a true church" would ge "The Baptist church is not actually a diocese in any sense of the word, and thus not, strictly speaking, a "church," but a "faith community."
The same would be said of "The Franciscan Order," or "The Knights of Columbus." These are not true churches, even though they might ahow many elements that would also be found in a church community. But they do not have a bishop in line with the apostles, and so are not truly "churches."
In no way does the verse refer to denominations, with people all disagreeing with each other over doctrine, andelevatingthemselves to levels of authority (a la The Tower of Babel), but faith coomunities united to the faith of the apostles, and under apostlic leadership and teaching.
They were, and are the true "Church of Christ," and had nothing to do with the American counterfeit one which has presumed to take this for its institutional formal name.
Rob
Explain how it can be counterfeit.

It it governed and worships in the same manner as the church at Ephesus or Galatia. We adhere to Paul's teaching at that time and we follow his instructions in ignoring anything anyone teaches us that would be contrary to what he and the apostles taught about the church.

I'm waiting....
Clay

United States

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#422115
Feb 12, 2013
 
concerned in Eygpt wrote:
<quoted text>

Your Sect practices Idol worship, teaches a gospel contrary to the NT, indulgences Not Biblical, Purgatory Not Biblical.
"your sect practices idol worship... "

Yeah yeah yeah. I know what you say we do.

I'll tell you something, there is a set of statues of the three little children from Fatima, kneeling before a statue of the Blessed Mother. So not only do Catholics get to worship statues, are STATUES get to worship statues too!!
Lol (I stole that one from Patrick Madrid)

You teach that we worship statues. I say that's ridiculous and shown you from the official Catholic teachings who we Worship.
So I'll leave it at that.

We'll both stand before God someday and only one of us will be right. Good luck.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#422116
Feb 12, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
All the "Churches of Christ" were later called Universal or Catholic. The earliest known document is from 110 AD. And the title was used so casual then, that one could imply that it was a title already in use before that.
Key word - LATER.

Doesn't take long for men to de-rail a church.

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