Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

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The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#421382 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure you intended to say Christian. I've never known or studied Campbell, but I belong to Christ's church and can defend that point biblically.
nope. I meant to say that Hank is a campbellite, a real nice guy but nonetheless a campbellite, and on some things we have agreed to disagree but when he says that miracles and gifts of the spirit are now gone, then I am not going to stand for that.

oh, I am certain that you can defend your church and its false doctrine. all of you can but fortunately, i have heard it for 20 years or so.lol
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#421383 Feb 10, 2013
StarC wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus himself appointed the apostles. Who
appointed gif and you to interpret the Bible, Who? Sister Aimee the founder of the Pentecostal
church?? That’s a joke she was an adulteress and
drug addicted. Hey, lets call it Aimee-nism!!!!
LOL
FYI>
“In the years that followed, Sister Aimee
continued her preaching and international tours,
but her love affair with the press had ended, and
rumors persistently followed her. She MARRIED A
THIRD TIME in 1931, then divorced in 1934. She
died in 1944 from an OVERDOSE of barbituates. She
is buried at Forest Lawn Cemetery in Glendale,
California. The Angelus Temple still is a church
for the Foursquare Gospel, which today claims over
two million members worldwide.”
http://www.usc.edu/libraries/archives/la/scan...
[non-Catholic sources]- from USC]
Canadian born Aimee Semple McPherson,
In 1922 she founded the Foursquare Gospel, a
Pentecostal mission
We do not take credit for what Jesus taught the Apostles…all the credit goes to them.
You should pray that our Lord opens your mind and heart, so you too can follow HIS true teachings in THE ONE TRUE CHURCH!!!.
This is sister aimee… 20th century church [lol]
http://openmikey.blogspot.com/2012/03/jesus-i...
BTW, Jesus did call Paul on his way to Damascus.. So yes, JESUS did hand pick him too.
Study, study, study for the real truth.
StarC, we are chosen by God (called) if God chooses us surely He will teach us His Holy Scriptures.
How?? by the Holy Spirit, who Jesus said would lead us to all truths.
Or do you not believe God; or do you not understand what is written in the Bible the book catholic's like to take credit for giving the world.
Truth is the catholic church tried to keep it from the world , so they burned the different translations of it.
Anyone who did translate it was killed. so the catholic churches lies won't be exposed.
Luther was a catholic, and understood the lies that were being told and by the Grace of God refused to go along with the lies.
No wonder cathoic's hate him he humiliated them in public and nail it to the church doors ,LOL



John 14:25-27

King James Version (KJV)


25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

<<

>

>>
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#421384 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Each congregation would have Elders (Bishops) and Deacons - that's ALL. Each congregation answered to God and God alone. No boards, no overseers, no hierarchy. Only the Word as a guide. No one from the outside made decisions for them or told them who their preacher would be etc. They didn't practice infant baptism. Being in Christ, they could go directly to God with their petitions. Who went to a confessional in the first century church? Each member of the church was a priest. They practiced the Lord's Supper on the first day of the week and they did not use 'music' in thier worship with the exception of their God given voices singing hymns together.
Wouldn't that be completely different from the experience at a typical Catholic Church this morning?
Are you against music being played in church Saban.
What about the children of Israel, did they not play the tamborine, didn't King David play a harp and sing to God.

The Psalms

33

Praise to the Creator and Preserver



1

Rejoice in the LORD, O ye righteous:




for praise is comely for the upright.



2

Praise the LORD with harp:




sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.



3

Sing unto him a new song;




play skilfully with a loud noise.



4

For the word of the LORD is right;




and all his works are done in truth.



5

He loveth righteousness and judgment:




the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.



6

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made;




and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.



7

He gathereth the waters of the sea together as a heap:




he layeth up the depth in storehouses.



8

Let all the earth fear the LORD:




let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.



9

For he spake, and it was done;




he commanded, and it stood fast.



10

The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought:




he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.



11

The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever,




the thoughts of his heart to all generations.



12

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD;




and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.



13

The LORD looketh from heaven;




he beholdeth all the sons of men.



14

From the place of his habitation he looketh




upon all the inhabitants of the earth.



15

He fashioneth their hearts alike;




he considereth all their works.



16

There is no king saved by the multitude of a host:




a mighty man is not delivered by much strength.



17

A horse is a vain thing for safety:




neither shall he deliver any by his great strength.



18

Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him,




upon them that hope in his mercy;



19

to deliver their soul from death,




and to keep them alive in famine.



20

Our soul waiteth for the LORD:




he is our help and our shield.



21

For our heart shall rejoice in him,




because we have trusted in his holy name.



22

Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us,




according as we hope in thee.

Clay

United States

#421385 Feb 10, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>be careful?lol
infant baptism is a waste of time and all it does is make the baby cry, the baby is safe as far as Heaven is concerned and I would hate to think that a good man like you clay, would say that a baby would go to hell if it was not baptised.
I am glad that I know better. my baby died at the age of 15 days.Iahd him home only two days before he died. On athursday night, i did take him to church with me and we took him to the altar and dedicated him to the Lord(no baptism).
and later after he died, God showed me in a vision that Jerrod was safe in the "cleft of a large moutain".I hope to see him some day in heaven with my parents and those who have went on before me.
until then, my mom is rocking him and singing good ole Gospel songs to him.
Its not about the baby only. Its about the two parents bringing forth their child and Baptizing them into Christianity. Its the covenant of the family that Jesus wishes to initiate. Later in life, that baby will have the ability to confirm their Baptismal vows made by their parents before God. This is the Sacrament of Confirmation that Catholic, Orthodox and some Protestants go through at an age of maturity.

And please cut with your stories of visions and mystical encounters with God. It didn't happen.
Do you know how I know? Because your demeanor to your fellow man is not becoming of someone who saw Christ face to face or was given a vision by God..
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#421386 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Each congregation would have Elders (Bishops) and Deacons - that's ALL. Each congregation answered to God and God alone. No boards, no overseers, no hierarchy. Only the Word as a guide. No one from the outside made decisions for them or told them who their preacher would be etc. They didn't practice infant baptism. Being in Christ, they could go directly to God with their petitions. Who went to a confessional in the first century church? Each member of the church was a priest. They practiced the Lord's Supper on the first day of the week and they did not use 'music' in thier worship with the exception of their God given voices singing hymns together.
Wouldn't that be completely different from the experience at a typical Catholic Church this morning?
I guess you forgot about the Children of Israel, who sang song of Worship and Praise .

Psalm 33

New King James Version (NKJV)


The Sovereignty of the Lord in Creation and History

Psalm 33
1 Rejoice in the Lord, O you righteous!
For praise from the upright is beautiful.
2 Praise the Lord with the harp;
Make melody to Him with an instrument of ten strings.
3 Sing to Him a new song;
Play skillfully with a shout of joy.

4 For the word of the Lord is right,
And all His work is done in truth.
5 He loves righteousness and justice;
The earth is full of the goodness of the Lord.

6 By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
7 He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap;[a]
He lays up the deep in storehouses.

8 Let all the earth fear the Lord;
Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.
9 For He spoke, and it was done;
He commanded, and it stood fast.

10 The Lord brings the counsel of the nations to nothing;
He makes the plans of the peoples of no effect.
11 The counsel of the Lord stands forever,
The plans of His heart to all generations.
12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord,
The people He has chosen as His own inheritance.

13 The Lord looks from heaven;
He sees all the sons of men.
14 From the place of His dwelling He looks
On all the inhabitants of the earth;
15 He fashions their hearts individually;
He considers all their works.

16 No king is saved by the multitude of an army;
A mighty man is not delivered by great strength.
17 A horse is a vain hope for safety;
Neither shall it deliver any by its great strength.

18 Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him,
On those who hope in His mercy,
19 To deliver their soul from death,
And to keep them alive in famine.

20 Our soul waits for the Lord;
He is our help and our shield.
21 For our heart shall rejoice in Him,
Because we have trusted in His holy name.
22 Let Your mercy, O Lord, be upon us,
Just as we hope in You.
Clay

United States

#421387 Feb 10, 2013
This is a cage match. lol. we've got Pentecostals, some Baptist guy, another Baptist guy....a Church of Christ man, a evangelical and SDA dude.

All using the Catholic Bible to duke it out. All claiming sola scriptura. All claiming the Holy Spirit reveals the Biblical truths to them!!
The only thing they have in common, is they hate the Catholic Church.
wow
concerned in Eygpt

Aberdeen, UK

#421388 Feb 10, 2013
StarC wrote:
<quoted text>
You and I both know the RC is Bible based.
Well of course, since your church has only been in existence since 1922. lol
Too bad we can’t check the record of the Pentecostal church 2000 years from now.
[if its still around]
Still doing the same here, gif attacks we defend. Be sure to call your brother gif on his insults of the One True Church.
Some things never change.
Regarding the posts visit … I will surly post pics here to keep you updated..
“ Pope Benedict XVI visit to Brazil in 2007, Pope Benedict XVI presided over the ..... for Catholic youth, where he addressed some 25,000 young people in attendance.”
Its no joke when 25,000 attend mass.
Take care.
There is only one Church and it has existed since the time of Jesus he founded it the Gospel is the Cornerstone.

YOUR institution called the RCC is a sect that has biblical doctrine and non biblical doctrine like Mary worship and prayers to the dead among many others.
The List is extensive.

I trace my spiritual heritage through the Spirit of God and am United through him to the Body of Christ Past Present and Future.
I do not need an earthly membership card his seal is on my heart.

I need not belong to your heretical sect no more than I need belong to the Lutheran Sect to be in the fullness of God.

What is plain to those who are truly indwelt with the HOLY Spirit the comforter who was sent by Jesus is the RCC has become exactly what the Pharisees were in the NT church.

HYPOCRITES
just as you try to point out four square leadership issues in the past their splinters, you ignore the Board in your RCC's eye.

StarC you walk in Pride.

You love to be able to say I belong to thee one I am in you are out I have you don't.

Never once accepting historical facts
Never once accepting Biblical facts

That are in direct contradiction to your assertions.

God Bless you do have much compassion I have sensed in your posts in the past
concerned in Eygpt

Aberdeen, UK

#421389 Feb 10, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text> I only used geography when talking about China. Not the CC.
you seem like a nice guy, but you're failing miserably to convince me of your theology. Your conspiracy Christianity works on some Brazilians I suppose..
I only used geography about china your write LOL

so I apply my rules to everything but myself is what your saying.

LOL

BTW I am not trying to convince you of anything, for those who are seeking and reading along you are but a means to end to show the you as a Roman Catholic have'nt a clue to that which you claim to know.

Thanks for that.
concerned in Eygpt

Aberdeen, UK

#421390 Feb 10, 2013
Clay wrote:
This is a cage match. lol. we've got Pentecostals, some Baptist guy, another Baptist guy....a Church of Christ man, a evangelical and SDA dude.
All using the Catholic Bible to duke it out. All claiming sola scriptura. All claiming the Holy Spirit reveals the Biblical truths to them!!
The only thing they have in common, is they hate the Catholic Church.
wow
Again you did not think before you posted your Absurd post.

If we are all using the same bible, if we all claim Sola Scriptoria, and we all claim the Holy Spirit reveals Biblical Truth as you just posted then we have lots in Common not just your presupposition that we hate the RCC. Your own post contradicts your conclusion we only have one thing in common.

Clearly uneducated.

Wake up you are digging a grave that 20 feet deep already.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#421391 Feb 10, 2013
jethro8 wrote:
two days no power,got 26" of snow,anyone else get wacked by this storm? have i missed anything? did hojo,regina or anothony answer my question yet? or are they still stone walling?
Hi Jethro, My son was hit with 3 feet of snow, he spent all day plowing himself out, and the guy next to him who is on holidays.
My son is a Canadian, He remembers our winters, we already have 120cm on the ground up here . We didn't need anymore snow but its coming our way. LOL
One winter we had snow on the ground already we got one snow storm that dumped 60cm of snow, and we got hit with one that dumped another 225cm in one shot .
A couple of days later we got a down pour of rain so bad that the snow was coming down the street like Icebergs.
It lasted 2 days like that, the rain stopped and it turned bitter cold for about a week it was glare ice every where.
I have never seen weather so changeable in such a short period of time.
Tiger Lily

New Zealand

#421392 Feb 10, 2013
"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh." Catholic National July 1895.
"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty" ...Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894,
"For thou art the shepherd, thou art the physician, thou art the director, thou art the husbandman, finally thou art another God on earth." Labbe and Cossart's "History of the Councils." Vol. XIV, col. 109

The title "Lord God the Pope" is found within a gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, title 14, chapter 4, In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words, "Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam" (Our Lord God the Pope) can be found in column 153. In a Paris edition, they are found in column 140.

"The pope is the supreme judge of the law of the land ... He is the vicegerent of Christ, and is not only a priest forever, but also King of kings and Lord of lords"--La Civilta Cattolica, March 18, 1871.

"It seems that Pope John Paul II now presides over the universal Church from his place upon Christ's cross," said Bishop Dunn, who traveled with seven other prelates to Rome. Taken from an article entitled, "Auckland Bishop Says Pope Presides From the Cross" AUCKLAND, New Zealand, SEPT. 20, 2004 -Zenit.org (Article # ZE04092001)

"The Pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ. The Pope has authority and has often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." - Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap.

"...the church is above the Bible, and the transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact" Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923.

"The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed...the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority." Canon and Tradition, p. 263
(82) As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "DOES NOT derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. BOTH SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION MUST BE ACCEPTED AND HONORED WITH EQUAL SENTIMENTS OF DEVOTION AND REVERENCE. Catechism of Catholic Doctrine Page 31

"The Scriptures indeed is a divine book but it is a dead letter, which has to be explained, and cannot exercise the action which the preacher can obtain." -Our Priesthood, p. 155
They also state that the Bible is a…
"...A dead and speechless book." -Roman Catholic booklet entitled “Question Box”, p. 67
"The doctrines of the Catholic Church are entirely independent of Holy Scripture." -Familiar Explanation of Catholic Doctrine, Rev. M. Muller, p.151.

The doctrine and practice of indulgences in the Church are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Penance. What is an indulgence? "An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints." "An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin." Indulgences may be applied to the living or the dead.
Clay

United States

#421393 Feb 10, 2013
concerned in Eygpt wrote:
<quoted text>
There is only one Church and it has existed since the time of Jesus he founded it the Gospel is the Cornerstone.
YOUR institution called the RCC is a sect that has biblical doctrine and non biblical doctrine like Mary worship and prayers to the dead among many others.
The List is extensive.
I trace my spiritual heritage through the Spirit of God and am United through him to the Body of Christ Past Present and Future.
I do not need an earthly membership card his seal is on my heart.
I need not belong to your heretical sect no more than I need belong to the Lutheran Sect to be in the fullness of God.
What is plain to those who are truly indwelt with the HOLY Spirit the comforter who was sent by Jesus is the RCC has become exactly what the Pharisees were in the NT church.
HYPOCRITES
just as you try to point out four square leadership issues in the past their splinters, you ignore the Board in your RCC's eye.
StarC you walk in Pride.
You love to be able to say I belong to thee one I am in you are out I have you don't.
Never once accepting historical facts
Never once accepting Biblical facts
That are in direct contradiction to your assertions.
God Bless you do have much compassion I have sensed in your posts in the past
"the RCC is a sect that has biblical doctrine and non biblical doctrine, like Mary Worship.."
Then you said: "I trace my spiritual heritage through the spirit of God and am united through him to the body of Christ"
Here is the problem: the first quote above is a lie. No matter how many gazillion times you guys accuse us of worshiping Mary, its still a lie- just like the first time you uttered it.
So am I to believe you are united to Christ when you spread lies about Catholics?
Is that how you're successful in Brazil? By using deceit to get them away from the Catholic Church?
Clay

United States

#421394 Feb 10, 2013
concerned in Eygpt wrote:
<quoted text>
Again you did not think before you posted your Absurd post.
If we are all using the same bible, if we all claim Sola Scriptoria, and we all claim the Holy Spirit reveals Biblical Truth as you just posted then we have lots in Common not just your presupposition that we hate the RCC. Your own post contradicts your conclusion we only have one thing in common.
Clearly uneducated.
Wake up you are digging a grave that 20 feet deep already.
You seem rather smug. We're all just 'uneducated'!!
Preston says I would be getting in over my head with you. lol
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#421395 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Good. So we agree he was saved by God's grace just as we are. What would've happened if Noah had only relied on God's grace and he had not followed through with the commands he had been given. In short, was there something he had to do in order to accept the grace God offered?
Once again God give us all a measure of Faith , we didn't work for it. It was God Given

God has given everyone a measure a faith, specific enough for each circumstance and situation we face. Believe it and start using it! Believing isn’t the same as having faith, just like walking isn’t the same as having legs. Faith means using your legs for something. Faith means being bold and courageous to launch out and take on every challenge that comes your way!
We need to exercise our faith , like our muscles to develope it and help it grow.
So what we may fail a number of times, but we can't quite.
a baby falls many times before he finally walks .
When God created us, He made us with a body, soul and spirit. He gave us individual talents and a personal measure of faith, designed to conquer our own challenges and circumstances. No one can ever say that they can’t get out of any circumstance, because ever since the Father made us, He also gave us the Faith, the will and the capacity to overcome every situation in life.
If we are going to please God , its got to be through the faith God gaves us.

Habakkuk 2:2-4 says:“Then the Lord answered me and said: "Write the vision and make it plain on tablets, that he may run who reads it. For the vision is yet for an appointed time; But at the end it will speak, and it will not lie. Though it tarries, wait for it because it will surely come. It will not tarry. "Behold the proud, His soul is not upright in him; But the just shall live by his faith.

Romans 12

King James Version (KJV)


12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#421396 Feb 10, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>yeah, I have seen you campbellites say that your church was there at the beginning. but we know that you are a liar when you say that.if any church can make that claim, it would be the baptsit church, but to Christians, we all know that it is the Born Again church that was first and only church.
so go ahead and shake the dust off of your feet. just shows how dirty that you are. not spiritual.
Where does the baptsit church get its name?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#421397 Feb 10, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>nope. I meant to say that Hank is a campbellite, a real nice guy but nonetheless a campbellite, and on some things we have agreed to disagree but when he says that miracles and gifts of the spirit are now gone, then I am not going to stand for that.
oh, I am certain that you can defend your church and its false doctrine. all of you can but fortunately, i have heard it for 20 years or so.lol
How does one follow Campbell?
socci

El Dorado Springs, MO

#421398 Feb 10, 2013
no, the Bible is not catholic. it was in use long before the 4th.

and just because there are baptists or sda who disagree about the day of worship does not then make the catholic right. only they like the catholic reject what is written.

the catholic and baptist both worship the same day. the catholic says their church is the authority and knows better. the baptist does not want to break with the denomination thus continues in error same as catholics.

sda have other errors but on this one they are right!
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#421399 Feb 10, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>doesnt mean that I called him a campbellite, does it. Hank is on here too.lol
saban and hank, that makes two and two is plural.
when are you going to leave that hatred behind and get saved?
Which of the three of us is being hateful? Me, you, or Truth?
socci

El Dorado Springs, MO

#421400 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
Where does the baptsit church get its name?

their famous breakfast donuts?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#421401 Feb 10, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you against music being played in church Saban.
What about the children of Israel, did they not play the tamborine, didn't King David play a harp and sing to God.
The Psalms
33
Praise to the Creator and Preserver
1
Rejoice in the LORD, O ye righteous:
for praise is comely for the upright.
2
Praise the LORD with harp:
sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.
3
Sing unto him a new song;
play skilfully with a loud noise.
4
For the word of the LORD is right;
and all his works are done in truth.
5
He loveth righteousness and judgment:
the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.
6
By the word of the LORD were the heavens made;
and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
7
He gathereth the waters of the sea together as a heap:
he layeth up the depth in storehouses.
8
Let all the earth fear the LORD:
let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
9
For he spake, and it was done;
he commanded, and it stood fast.
10
The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought:
he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.
11
The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever,
the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
12
Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD;
and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
13
The LORD looketh from heaven;
he beholdeth all the sons of men.
14
From the place of his habitation he looketh
upon all the inhabitants of the earth.
15
He fashioneth their hearts alike;
he considereth all their works.
16
There is no king saved by the multitude of a host:
a mighty man is not delivered by much strength.
17
A horse is a vain thing for safety:
neither shall he deliver any by his great strength.
18
Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him,
upon them that hope in his mercy;
19
to deliver their soul from death,
and to keep them alive in famine.
20
Our soul waiteth for the LORD:
he is our help and our shield.
21
For our heart shall rejoice in him,
because we have trusted in his holy name.
22
Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us,
according as we hope in thee.
Good question, but these examples were under the Old Law. There are several practices followed under the Old Covenant that we don't find being practiced in the NT church.

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