Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

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concerned in Eygpt

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#421222
Feb 9, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
actually, you need to study some Church history. And lose the conspiracy Christianity.
The Council of Trent was needed to clarify many rumors that the reformers were spreading. One of which is the the canon of Scripture. The books used in the Christian Bible included the 7 from the OT. Luther removed them. He deceived everyone into thinking the Jews never used those books. The fact is, the Jews never had a canon of scripture until AFTER Christianity.
Some sects had more then others. In about 100 AD, the Jews collectively decided on a canon. And this canon did NOT include Tobit, Kings and the other 5 books used by Christians.(precisely why the Jews left them out... to further separate themselves from the growing Christian religion)
In a nut shell, Concerned in Egypt, Luther sided with the Jews of 100 AD instead of The Apostles of 33 AD.
He had no authority to dabble in Scripture re configuration.
The Council of Trent is used by many Ideologue Christians against the Church, because the CC held it to publicly confirm centuries old Christians teachings. you guys point to it and say "see, they just made it up!" lol.
Sorry, again you just make up as you go.

Luther sided with the first 1600 years of Christianity.

The Apocrypha was never considered scripture by the Early Church.

You also now are out and out lying as the council of TRENT did not clarify but CANONIZED Apocrypha books that previously had never been Canonized by any Council previously.

By the way I was confirmed as a Lutheran. The Lutheran Bible never removed them Luther's Bible included them as did my conformation bible and they were considered as in the day of the early church valuable and useful for study in many ways but never considered equal to the other books as the inerrant word of God to be used for teaching Doctrine or Theology you know the study of God.

From http://carm.org/apocrypha-it-scripture
to save time.

Church Fathers

Did the Church fathers recognized the Apocrypha as being Scripture? Roman Catholics strongly appeal to Church history but we don't find a unanimous consensus on the Apocrypha. Jerome (340-420) who translated the Latin Vulgate which is used by the RC church, rejected the Apocrypha since he believed that the Jews recognized and established the proper canon of the Old Testament. Remember, the Christian Church built upon that recognition. Also, Josephus the famous Jewish historian of the First Century never mentioned the Apocrypha as being part of the canon either. In addition, "Early church fathers like Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, Athanasius, and the great Roman Catholic translator Jerome spoke out against the Apocrypha."2 So, we should not conclude that the Church fathers unanimously affirmed the Apocrypha. They didn't.

So Luther shared the same view as the translator of the Latin Vulgate.

He is in good company.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#421223
Feb 9, 2013
 
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
the only reason a person asks to be baptised is because he is a believer and is saved.
Water Baptism is not salvation it is a outward sign of an inward change that can only be caused by the Holy Spirit.
Your friend was saved , his desire to be baptised in water was the evidence of that.
God knew the good intentions of his heart.
Why did Peter instruct the people at Pentecost to be baptised for the remission of sins when they asked what they should do to be saved? You make a strong statement in your second sentance but you do not give the chapter and verse. I give you Acts 2:38. What do you give me?

Does what the ible says matter to your doctorine?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#421224
Feb 9, 2013
 
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#421225
Feb 9, 2013
 
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

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#421226
Feb 9, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The apostles were baptized in a manner unlike the "one" baptism Paul speaks of in Eph. 4. It should be obvious that after the tongues as of fire came down upon them they could do things that you and I could not do after our baptism. They were the foundation and they needed to be able to work wonders to prove their message was from God so people would believe what they said. Today we have the Word which should be sufficient. Remember they "put away childish things" (i.e. miracle working).
What is faith Saban Fan , to believe God .
John 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

Our faith or lack of it prevents us from doing what the apostles did in the name of Jesus.
People believe that the apostles who were with Jesus were the only ones who had these gifts that is not true.
If people believe that then they have no reason to believe that God answers prayers today either.
cont
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

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#421227
Feb 9, 2013
 
Cont
Hebrews 11
King James Version (KJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
cont
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

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#421228
Feb 9, 2013
 
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
marge

Ames, IA

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#421229
Feb 9, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The question was:
Exactly what about this verse
Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.
would lead one to believe that Paul's sins were forgiven before his baptism?
Because water baptism is a picture of Holy Spirit Baptism, a teaching tool about a new birth in Christ Jesus, by getting water baptized Paul was showing he believed in and received Jesus as his Saviour.
truth

Perth, Australia

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#421230
Feb 9, 2013
 
for others is foolish preach CROSS
who believe will be save
what i see
they sleep=i walk and talk with that man..o shime is that you..is that you jesus..are you for sure
preserve=you will be with me in paradise

they sleep=i walk i talk i return as alive walking trough earth i wrote to you now
then
where is sini sunce=where is shiny sun

not yet

i say to you CROSS

now
ljutnja=anger
when we pray
your anger
why you angry over me
hide me in wounds of your heart
what you see in your heart
21=around 11.30 i been stub in heart toward 22 in morning up to 4.may..day by day night by night
2.5 months tempted according your law..which i say your law is not my law..
i been in constant prayers
i see i know all that symbols
as well who they are..
now
Did you say hide me in your wounds?

YOU ARE NOT ON PLACE WHICH BELONG TO YOU.
WHO SEEK MY LIFE MUST DIED.
marge

Ames, IA

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#421231
Feb 9, 2013
 
2 Peter 1:19 And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Praise God!
Clay

United States

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#421232
Feb 9, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

concerned in Eygpt wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, again you just make up as you go.
Luther sided with the first 1600 years of Christianity.
The Apocrypha was never considered scripture by the Early Church.
You also now are out and out lying as the council of TRENT did not clarify but CANONIZED Apocrypha books that previously had never been Canonized by any Council previously.
By the way I was confirmed as a Lutheran. The Lutheran Bible never removed them Luther's Bible included them as did my conformation bible and they were considered as in the day of the early church valuable and useful for study in many ways but never considered equal to the other books as the inerrant word of God to be used for teaching Doctrine or Theology you know the study of God.
From http://carm.org/apocrypha-it-scripture
to save time.
Church Fathers
Did the Church fathers recognized the Apocrypha as being Scripture? Roman Catholics strongly appeal to Church history but we don't find a unanimous consensus on the Apocrypha. Jerome (340-420) who translated the Latin Vulgate which is used by the RC church, rejected the Apocrypha since he believed that the Jews recognized and established the proper canon of the Old Testament. Remember, the Christian Church built upon that recognition. Also, Josephus the famous Jewish historian of the First Century never mentioned the Apocrypha as being part of the canon either. In addition, "Early church fathers like Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, Athanasius, and the great Roman Catholic translator Jerome spoke out against the Apocrypha."2 So, we should not conclude that the Church fathers unanimously affirmed the Apocrypha. They didn't.
So Luther shared the same view as the translator of the Latin Vulgate.
He is in good company.
yes I'm already aware of the historical scenario you been taught. Is it factual? Nope.

The Council of Tent did NOT determine CC canon.
Those books were already used as inspired texts.
The Council CLARIFIED Sacred texts.
You think Luther had the authority to determine The New Testament? ha, that's nuts.

Read up on the Dead Sea Scrolls. What did those 'turn of the millennium Jews' have in their possession? The book of Tobit among others.

The official Jewish canon did NOT happen until after Christianity. Luther left that part out when he deceive y'all.

Since: Jun 10

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#421233
Feb 9, 2013
 
231
marge wrote:
2 Peter 1:19 And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Praise God!
What message to you see in the Scripture quoted that prompted "Praise God"????
concerned in Eygpt

UK

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#421234
Feb 9, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't confuse the early Christians with modern day Evangelicals.
The Bible (to them) was the Hebrew books. Not the various letters and memoirs of The Apostles. Those did not yet become part of The Bible.
The Apostles were convinced Christ was coming back in their lifetime. They would never have thought to compile their writings into a Bible.
The Roman Catholic Church decided to do just that in the 4th and 5th century.
Your Man made RCC argument is quite flawed.

If we are to carry your man made logic to its logical conclusion they never would of wrote anything down if they thought Jesus was coming back (second coming) in there life time. But there is no Biblical or early Church evidence to believe that they did believe the second coming was going to happen in their life times.

YOU see unlike you the Apostles Knew the OT inside and out.

They knew Apocalyptic writings sayings when they read or heard them.

You see the NT and the Apostles taught of the Coming of the Lord and the Second coming of the Messsiah.

If you knew the difference you would not make the error you just posted.

They believed the Coming of the Lord was imminent as Jesus taught in Matt 23 and John in Revelation.

AS in the OT the coming of the LORD was God's wrath and Judgement and it came in their generation in 70 AD when Israel was sacked and God allowed the Romans to lay Siege to Jerusalem for 3 !/2 years and when it was finished not one stone of the temple stood on another.

The coming of the Lord and the Second Coming are two different events, back to bible school for Clay.

You would do well to stop spewing your indoctrination brain washed teachings of the RCC now and go study the Bible.

Truth Matters
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

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#421235
Feb 9, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
The short of it Saban we are saved by faith not of works less anyone should boost.

Nothing we do even getting baptized in water saves us.
It is a works we do, we are saved by the works of Jesus Christ, on the cross for the remission of our sins
If we could save our selfs by being baptized in water Jesus would not have had to die on the cross.

When does a person repent?? an unsaved person won't repent and an unsaved person would not get baptized.

Repent and be baptized for the remission of sin , Remission is used to translate the Greek word of the Scriptures, pronounced af-es-is, which means freedom, particularly after a pardon.

repentance and remission of sins"

The remission of sins is made possible only by and through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God
Peter preached repentance for the remission of sins:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38 KJV)
truth

Perth, Australia

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#421236
Feb 9, 2013
 
SHUT UP..pool yourself for ear 3x 7x 77x 144x..every words is not coming from God.

log is not mother Mary milk=pool yourself for your trepavice 3x 7x 77x 777x 144 x

how many lord you have
how many gods you have..

''love''

don't have another God
love your god with your heart
truth

Perth, Australia

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#421237
Feb 9, 2013
 
Are you for sure silver gold and wood not burning?

I stay upon sun and look big fire ball..no..who told you its hot..nooooo liars..i don't fill hot or burn

i walk its frozen they sleep many many bags..
but i don't fill cold not at all
i return..they sleep..me no i talk and walk but i am alive and return..

Why is like that?
truth

Perth, Australia

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#421238
Feb 9, 2013
 
izmisljotino izmisljotino izmisljotino prodi me se..
Where is that izmisljotina..innovation ''in''?

''n''
an en in on un..

imisljotina say on 3x ''in''oh dear oh dear oh dear
in dia ..''r'' separate..
where is your intellect in tell lect
tell ctel=lesct
tell= c tell

ha ha ha ha ha
from nothing something=izmisljotina
concerned in Eygpt

UK

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#421239
Feb 9, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
yes I'm already aware of the historical scenario you been taught. Is it factual? Nope.
The Council of Tent did NOT determine CC canon.
Those books were already used as inspired texts.
The Council CLARIFIED Sacred texts.
You think Luther had the authority to determine The New Testament? ha, that's nuts.
Read up on the Dead Sea Scrolls. What did those 'turn of the millennium Jews' have in their possession? The book of Tobit among others.
The official Jewish canon did NOT happen until after Christianity. Luther left that part out when he deceive y'all.
Let me show you how I now you are dis-indigenous and sooner make up straw men then debate in good faith and Honor.

I never said Luther had any Authority to determine the Canon as I posted to you he affirmed 1600 years of Christian History and he shared the View of so many Greats even the Man that gave us the Vulgate, Luther Shared the same Belief as Jerome.

I do not believe the OT of the Jews but of Jesus.
for sake of time

from again http://carm.org/apocrypha-it-scripture

Jesus' references the Old Testament: from Abel to Zechariah

Jesus referenced the Jewish Old Testament canon from the beginning to the end and did not include the Apocrypha in his reference. "From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation," (Luke 11:51).

"The traditional Jewish canon was divided into three sections (Law, Prophets, Writings), and an unusual feature of the last section was the listing of Chronicles out of historical order, placing it after Ezra-Nehemiah and making it the last book of the canon. In light of this, the words of Jesus in Luke 11:50-51 reflect the settled character of the Jewish canon (with its peculiar order) already in his day. Christ uses the expression "from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah," which appears troublesome since Zechariah was not chronologically the last martyr mentioned in the Bible (cf. Jer. 26:20-23). However, Zechariah is the last martyr of which we read in the Old Testament according to Jewish canonical order (cf. II Chron. 24:20-22), which was apparently recognized by Jesus and his hearers."1
This means that the same Old Testament canon, according to the Jewish tradition, is arranged differently than how we have it in the Protestant Bible today. This was the arrangement to which Jesus was referring when he referenced Abel and Zechariah, the first and last people to have their blood shed -- as listed in the Old Testament Jewish canon. Obviously, Jesus knew of the Apocrypha and was not including it in his reference.

Jesus references the Old Testament: The Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms

Catholics sometimes respond by saying that the Old Testament is referred to in three parts: the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. It is these writings that are sometimes said to include the Apocrypha. But this designation is not found in the Bible. On the contrary, Jesus referenced the Old Testament and designated its three parts as the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms, not as the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings.

"Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled," (Luke 24:44).
So we see that the designation offered by the Roman Catholics is not the same designation found in the Bible and their argument is invalid as their argument is incorrect. Nevertheless, even if it did say "writings" it would not include the Apocrypha for the above-mentioned reasons.
truth

Perth, Australia

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#421240
Feb 9, 2013
 
now you liked eat me..don't you
smuch smach smech smich shmoc smuch
s much
s=c co 13
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...
$ much=how much
Pad

Rockford, IL

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#421241
Feb 9, 2013
 
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
The Article says:
Suppose you could survey the people who live in the hundred homes nearest to your own house on the subject of Christian baptism. What kind of answer would you get in response to this question: "How should a person be baptized in order to meet the Bible requirements of salvation?"
It is likely that you would get a dozen different answers, and possibly even a hundred. Some would say that they don't believe it is necessary to be baptized at all to be saved. Others would answer that true baptism is to go forward three times completely under the water. Some would contend that a few drops of sprinkled water on the head would constitute a valid baptism, while others would insist on pouring the water over the candidate. A few would strongly hold that a proper baptism consists of a single immersion backwards into the water.
Somehow the subject of baptism has spawned a plethora of ideas on how it should be administered, and to whom. Yet, all believe that their method is based on the one book of authority - the Bible. How could this confusion of conviction result from reading the same book?"
Then Joe Schmo gives his infallible opinion. lol Protestants are all over the place and here is another with the real deal. It never ends with them. The Spam from LTM who presents her infallible author from gotquestions It never ends with Protestants each with their own personal truth.
And the epitome of a distorted view of baptism is Infant baptism plain and simple.It is ridiculous,and it serves no purpose to sprinkle water on the head of an infant as in an initiation.Baptism is NOT an initiation,it is what believers do after repentance.READ the Bible,Oh I forgot Dust Storm,Tradition comes first doesn't it?

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