Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 20 comments on the Jul 10, 2007, CBC News story titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#421191 Feb 9, 2013
LTM wrote:
Those who hold baptism to be required for salvation point to “born of water” as evidence. As one person has put it,“Jesus describes it and tells him plainly how—by being born of water and the Spirit. This is a perfect description of baptism! Jesus could not have given a more detailed and accurate explanation of baptism.” However, had Jesus actually wanted to say that one must be baptized to be saved, He clearly could have simply stated,“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).
Looking at your first line, I see a strawman. I don't require you to try to make my points for me. Which baptism examples didn't involve water?
We should also not lose sight of the fact that when Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus, the ordinance of Christian baptism was not yet in effect. This important inconsistency in interpreting Scripture is seen when one asks those who believe baptism is required for salvation why the thief on the cross did not need to be baptized to be saved. A common reply to that question is:“The thief on the cross was still under the Old Covenant and therefore not subject to this baptism. He was saved just like anyone else under the Old Covenant.” So, in essence, the same people who say the thief did not need to be baptized because he was “under the Old Covenant” will use John 3:5 as “proof” that baptism is necessary for salvation. They insist that Jesus is telling Nicodemus that he must be baptized to be saved, even though he too was under the Old Covenant. If the thief on the cross was saved without being baptized (because he was under the Old Covenant), why would Jesus tell Nicodemus (who was also under the Old Covenant) that he needed to be baptized?
If “being born of water and the Spirit” is not referring to baptism, then what does it mean? Traditionally, there have been two interpretations of this phrase. The first is that being “born of water” is being used by Jesus to refer to natural birth (with water referring to the amniotic fluid that surrounds the baby in the womb) and that being born of the “Spirit” indicates spiritual birth. While that is certainly a possible interpretation of the term “born of water” and would seem to fit the context of Nicodemus’ question about how a man could be born “when he is old,” it is not the best interpretation given the context of this passage. After all, Jesus was not talking about the difference between natural birth and spiritual birth. What He was doing was explaining to Nicodemus his need to be “born from above” or “born again.”
cont
That is a strawman in your very first line. How many examples of baptism didn't involve water? And, if the baptism didn't involve water was the person able to do instant miracles? Did this happen with your baptism?
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#421192 Feb 9, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never read the part where it says baptism is a work. I hear folks say that all the time but no one has ever been able to point that out to me. Can you?
Salvation came from God by Grace it was a gift,
A works is something we do like getting baptized in water.
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is something God does to us, that is what equips us to do the works God has predestined before time.

If water baptism saved us , the man on the cross wouldn't have gone to Heaven with Jesus .
Jesus would not make an exception for anyone, the theif on the cross eyes were opened, He said to Jesus remember me when you come into your Kingdom He believe Jesus was the savior of his soul.
Jesus said you will be with me in Paradise this day.
He was baptised by the Holy Spirit to beable to have the truth in His heart.
Jesus said that to Peter , who do you say I am Peter stated you are the son of the true living God.
Jesus told Peter only the Holy Spirit could reveal that truth to him.
ON the Spirit of Truth Jesus is building His Spirit filled Spirit Lead Holy Church.
One soul at a time, Jesus isn't through building when He is He will come again.
marge

Ames, IA

#421193 Feb 9, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
You begin with Acts 22:16. Exactly what is there about this verse that would convince someone that Paul's sins had been forgiven before his baptism?
Because God drew Paul to believe in Jesus as his Lord, that means Paul believed Jesus paid the price for his sins.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#421194 Feb 9, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a strawman in your very first line. How many examples of baptism didn't involve water? And, if the baptism didn't involve water was the person able to do instant miracles? Did this happen with your baptism?
No Strawman bibical.

What is the baptism of/by/with fire?"

John the Baptist came preaching repentance and baptizing in the wilderness of Judea, and he was sent as a herald to announce the arrival of Jesus, the Son of God (Matthew 3:1-12). He announced,“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”(Matthew 3:11).

After Jesus had risen from the dead, He instructed His apostles to “…wait for the Promise of the Father which you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now”(Acts 1:4-5). This promise was first fulfilled on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), and the baptism of the Spirit joins every believer to the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). But what about the baptism with fire?

Some interpret the baptism of fire as referring to the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was sent from heaven.“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them”(Acts 2:2-3). It is important to note that these were tongues as of fire, not literal fire.

Some believe that the baptism with fire refers to the Holy Spirit’s office as the energizer of the believer’s service, and the purifier of evil within, because of the exhortation “Do not quench the Spirit” found in 1Thessalonians 5:19. The command to the believer is to not put out the Spirit’s fire by suppressing His ministry.

A third and more likely interpretation is that the baptism of fire refers to judgment. In all four Gospel passages mentioned above, Mark and John speak of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but only Matthew and Luke mention the baptism with fire. The immediate context of Matthew and Luke is judgment (Matthew 3:7-12; Luke 3: 7-17). The context of Mark and John is not (Mark 1:1-8; John 1:29-34). We know that the Lord Jesus is coming in flaming fire to judge those who do not know God (2 Thessalonians 1:3-10; John 5:21-23; Revelation 20:11-15), but praise be to God that He will save all that will come and put their trust in Him (John 3:16)!
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#421195 Feb 9, 2013
The simplest answer to this question is found in the meaning of the word “baptize.” It comes from a Greek word which means “to submerge in water.” Therefore, baptism by sprinkling or by pouring is an oxymoron, something that self-contradictory. Baptism by sprinkling would mean “submerging someone in water by sprinkling water on them.” Baptism, by its inherent definition, must be an act of immersion in water.

Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection.“Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life”(Romans 6:3-4). The action of being immersed in the water pictures dying and being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water illustrates Christ’s resurrection. As a result, baptism by immersion is the only method of baptism which illustrates being buried with Christ and being raised with Him. Baptism by sprinkling and/or pouring came into practice as a result of the unbiblical practice of infant baptism.

Baptism by immersion, while it is the most biblical mode of identifying with Christ, is not (as some believe) a prerequisite for salvation. It is rather an act of obedience, a public proclamation of faith in Christ and identification with Him. Baptism is a picture of our leaving our old life and becoming a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). Baptism by immersion is the only mode that fully illustrates this radical change.
concerned in Eygpt

Aberdeen, UK

#421196 Feb 9, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
The Roman Catholic Church determined the New Testament canon in the 4th and 5th century. Most of those Books are in your Bible.(Luther removed 7 from the OT)
Is there really any more argument? Your opinion on what the Bible is, is flawed from the get go. Its made up by men, 1500 yrs after Jesus. Do you understand that?
Sorry you clearly have not studied early Christianity.

It was not tell the Council of Trent that the books you claim Luther removed were Canonized it took the RCC almost 1600 years to make them equal with the rest of the books.

Again you need to go study some early church history that has not been spoon feed to you from Catholic answers and your local Priest.

Trying being a Good Brennan and test you Sects teachings independently of the RCC, Paul praised the Brennans in Corthinians for doing such and they did it to his very own teachings.

They were of more Noble blood for doing so.

Truth Matters the RCC did not give us the Bible the HOLY SPIRIT DID
truth

Perth, Australia

#421197 Feb 9, 2013
How you know you will be save?
As it is in heaven its will be on Earth.
I explain myself..my good poor mother..its been Sunday.
We have horse..and my mother take care about him.
Before dark come, its suddenly some darkness thunder rain..explained from nowhere..my good mother allredy go broth him home from tiny property of grandfather.
When wild dark rain start my father run home..he in panic say where is your mother..she gone pick up horse..then he start run toward her..because of darkness and wild weather..but he return after 15 minutes..he say ..only God can save your mother..my Father is been in complete panic..he told me just there i n tiny street on edge of open field..its dark
its front of that darkness going everything under ewall tree..everything..but your mother catch horse in last moment..horse start run..not in right direction home in open fild..your mother desapier with him..toward him i try hold her but i can't
darkness spread everywhere tree and wall going down i can't cross..
nooooooooooooooooooo i replay
i start run..as i could

How much you love your mother?
i cry but not for so long..jesus lead me..
''kako bilo tako pocelo''=how bigin its will be finish..my mother pray every our father..
i follow that words..
i follow what priest say to
reci rijec i ozdravit ce dudsa moja..yes ..i run where horse stay..have to be..i step on that roock..i call deeply from my heart..mummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
follow my voice..as angels trough desert wind going
spread toward my mother..
you are not aloneeeeeeeeeeeee
follow my voice=word from my heart=reci rijec i ozdravit ce dusa
i love youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Did i been scare?
noooooooooo
rain stop wild weather stop..my mother and horse going altogether step by step toward me..

Where is light darkness can't win!
Guest

Poplar Bluff, MO

#421198 Feb 9, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Salvation came from God by Grace it was a gift,
A works is something we do like getting baptized in water.
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is something God does to us, that is what equips us to do the works God has predestined before time.
If water baptism saved us , the man on the cross wouldn't have gone to Heaven with Jesus .
Jesus would not make an exception for anyone, the theif on the cross eyes were opened, He said to Jesus remember me when you come into your Kingdom He believe Jesus was the savior of his soul.
Jesus said you will be with me in Paradise this day.
He was baptised by the Holy Spirit to beable to have the truth in His heart.
Jesus said that to Peter , who do you say I am Peter stated you are the son of the true living God.
Jesus told Peter only the Holy Spirit could reveal that truth to him.
ON the Spirit of Truth Jesus is building His Spirit filled Spirit Lead Holy Church.
One soul at a time, Jesus isn't through building when He is He will come again.
It's true that we have no record of the thief being baptized, for he certainly had no opportunity to do so after accepting Jesus as his Lord and Saviour. He could not come down from the cross where he was being executed by the Roman authorities. Had he been able to descend from that cross, he would have done many things. He would have turned from his life of crime, made restitution for all he had stolen, and walked in full conformity to truth he now understood. But since it was physically impossible to do any of those things, the obedient life of Jesus was imputed to him. That is why God could accept him and Jesus could give him such a glorious assurance of salvation. The baptism of Jesus was credited to him - an act that would have been required of the thief had he been able to fulfill it.

By the way, the same transaction would take place today if the circumstances were similar. Suppose a man should approach me this very day, requesting baptism. His desire is so urgent and compelling that he begs me to do it immediately. We get in my car to drive to a nearby lake where there is a convenient place to conduct the service. But on the way to the lake there is a terrible accident. My passenger is killed in that accident. Would he be lost because he had not yet been immersed with his Lord? Of course not. He had made the decision and was in the process of obeying the Lord when he died. God never requires the impossible from anyone. But on the basis of what we have learned from the lips of Jesus, one can confidently conclude that if a person has the opportunity to be baptized and refuses to be, that man cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

http://abc.eznettools.net/mobxpozd/baptism.ht...
truth

Perth, Australia

#421199 Feb 9, 2013
Who is light Paul or Jesus?
Guest

Poplar Bluff, MO

#421200 Feb 9, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Salvation came from God by Grace it was a gift,
A works is something we do like getting baptized in water.
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is something God does to us, that is what equips us to do the works God has predestined before time.
If water baptism saved us , the man on the cross wouldn't have gone to Heaven with Jesus .
Jesus would not make an exception for anyone, the theif on the cross eyes were opened, He said to Jesus remember me when you come into your Kingdom He believe Jesus was the savior of his soul.
Jesus said you will be with me in Paradise this day.
He was baptised by the Holy Spirit to beable to have the truth in His heart.
Jesus said that to Peter , who do you say I am Peter stated you are the son of the true living God.
Jesus told Peter only the Holy Spirit could reveal that truth to him.
ON the Spirit of Truth Jesus is building His Spirit filled Spirit Lead Holy Church.
One soul at a time, Jesus isn't through building when He is He will come again.
14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized by you, and come you to me?

15And Jesus answering said unto him, Permit it to be so now:........(for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.......... Then he permitted him.
marge

Ames, IA

#421201 Feb 9, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Salvation came from God by Grace it was a gift,
A works is something we do like getting baptized in water.
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is something God does to us, that is what equips us to do the works God has predestined before time.
If water baptism saved us , the man on the cross wouldn't have gone to Heaven with Jesus .
Jesus would not make an exception for anyone, the theif on the cross eyes were opened, He said to Jesus remember me when you come into your Kingdom He believe Jesus was the savior of his soul.
Jesus said you will be with me in Paradise this day.
He was baptised by the Holy Spirit to beable to have the truth in His heart.
Jesus said that to Peter , who do you say I am Peter stated you are the son of the true living God.
Jesus told Peter only the Holy Spirit could reveal that truth to him.
ON the Spirit of Truth Jesus is building His Spirit filled Spirit Lead Holy Church.
One soul at a time, Jesus isn't through building when He is He will come again.
Amen sister
concerned in Eygpt

Aberdeen, UK

#421202 Feb 9, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
"you make allot of presumptions in your post that are flat out false"
Oh? The last and most severe persecution of Christians happened 10 yrs before the Edict of Milan legalized Christianity.
Emperor Diocletian on February 23, 303 AD, ordered the newly built Christian Church at Nicodemia be destroyed, and its scriptures burned. The next day (February 24th) he issued an edict ordering the destruction of all Christian scriptures, Liturgical books and places of worship across the entire Roman Empire.
Wikipedia.org/wiki/diocletian_persecution
So lets see.... Christian scriptures were probably important to the faithful in 303 AD. No? It could have been in a real sense, part of their Bible. No?
The conspiracy Christian will make themselves believe that the books that did survive, were all that God wanted - so He could later reveal its meanings to the Evangelicals 1500 yrs later I suppose.
If you again had studied Christian history you would have studied how the trade of scribes worked in the Early Church.

Due to persecution no one location held the only copy of any letter book of what we call the NT.

Scribes would literally make hundreds of copies painstakingly and they would be sent every where so that they would not be lost.

Even early church fathers when they penned a new letter would have their scribes make numerous copies and have them sent east west north and south before even revealing them.

Thus it was statistically impossible for the word of God to be Lost and know doubt God's Angels followed lead and protected them.

We have found books of the NT dated with in 200 years of them being written in the far east they traveled that far and that fast.

God is way bigger and more powerful than any man or spiritual being.

Ro 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
Ro 8:39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Mt 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Lk 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
Clay

United States

#421203 Feb 9, 2013
concerned in Eygpt wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry you clearly have not studied early Christianity.
It was not tell the Council of Trent that the books you claim Luther removed were Canonized it took the RCC almost 1600 years to make them equal with the rest of the books.
Again you need to go study some early church history that has not been spoon feed to you from Catholic answers and your local Priest.
Trying being a Good Brennan and test you Sects teachings independently of the RCC, Paul praised the Brennans in Corthinians for doing such and they did it to his very own teachings.
They were of more Noble blood for doing so.
Truth Matters the RCC did not give us the Bible the HOLY SPIRIT DID
actually, you need to study some Church history. And lose the conspiracy Christianity.
The Council of Trent was needed to clarify many rumors that the reformers were spreading. One of which is the the canon of Scripture. The books used in the Christian Bible included the 7 from the OT. Luther removed them. He deceived everyone into thinking the Jews never used those books. The fact is, the Jews never had a canon of scripture until AFTER Christianity.
Some sects had more then others. In about 100 AD, the Jews collectively decided on a canon. And this canon did NOT include Tobit, Kings and the other 5 books used by Christians.(precisely why the Jews left them out... to further separate themselves from the growing Christian religion)

In a nut shell, Concerned in Egypt, Luther sided with the Jews of 100 AD instead of The Apostles of 33 AD.
He had no authority to dabble in Scripture re configuration.

The Council of Trent is used by many Ideologue Christians against the Church, because the CC held it to publicly confirm centuries old Christians teachings. you guys point to it and say "see, they just made it up!" lol.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#421204 Feb 9, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
You begin with Acts 22:16. Exactly what is there about this verse that would convince someone that Paul's sins had been forgiven before his baptism?
When we ask Jesus into our heats the Holy Spirit ,(comes to live in the Believers heart.) you will see a great change in a person who is born again. Their love for Christ will not allow them to continue in their sinful life. The fruits of the Holy Spirit , love, joy, peace, etc. there are nine
Some people are Baptized with the Holy Spirit before their Baptism in water some aren't
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit , is when the Holy Spirit impowers the believer with Gifts to Teach , Preach, Heal, etc. there are also nine .

Jesus met Saul on the road to Damascus, His name was changed to Paul.
Yeah Of course his sins were forgiven did he not call Jesus Lord ??

The events that happened on the road to Damascus relate not only to the Apostle Paul, whose dramatic conversion occurred there, but they also provide a clear picture of the conversion of all people. While some have an extraordinarily dramatic conversion known as a “Damascus Road experience,” the conversion of all believers follows a similar pattern of Paul’s experience on the road to Damascus, described in Paul’s own words in Acts 9:1-9, Acts 22:6-11, Acts 26:9-20.

Putting the three accounts together, the details of this amazing experience come together. Paul, whose name at that time was Saul, was on his way to Damascus with a letter from the high priest of the Temple in Jerusalem giving him authority to arrest any who belonged to “the Way,” meaning those who followed Christ. So intent was he on “opposing the name of Jesus of Nazareth”(Acts 26:9) that in “raging fury,” he breathed “threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord.” Here was a man who truly hated Christ and all who were associated with Him.

Suddenly a bright light shone on Saul, causing his entire party to fall to the ground. Then Jesus spoke to Saul, asking him “why are you persecuting me?” in a voice understood only by him. Saul recognized that this was a deity of some sort because he called Him “Lord” and asked who He was. When Jesus identified Himself as the very One Saul had been persecuting, one can only imagine the terror that filled Saul’s heart. Saul was speechless, no doubt thinking to himself,“I’m a dead man.” The Acts 22 version of the story indicates that Saul’s response was to ask what Jesus wanted him to do. The Acts 9 and Acts 22 retellings of the story have Saul saying Jesus told him to rise and go to Damascus where he would be told what to do.
marge

Ames, IA

#421205 Feb 9, 2013
(QUOTE)

[[Baptism by immersion, while it is the most biblical mode of identifying with Christ, is not (as some believe) a prerequisite for salvation. It is rather an act of obedience, a public proclamation of faith in Christ and identification with Him. Baptism is a picture of our leaving our old life and becoming a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). Baptism by immersion is the only mode that fully illustrates this radical change.]](QUOTE)

YEP!!!
truth

Perth, Australia

#421206 Feb 9, 2013
You are not born thief remember that.
Wicket satanic world will or try transform you into beast not only thief..Are you for sure i am wrong..did you know story of conspiracy and thief?
i know they read..they do and they will do..as they do conspiracy is satanic followers as well wicket world..plenty around us..Why they are holy?

byyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
accusers
Clay

United States

#421207 Feb 9, 2013
concerned in Eygpt wrote:
<quoted text>
If you again had studied Christian history you would have studied how the trade of scribes worked in the Early Church.
Due to persecution no one location held the only copy of any letter book of what we call the NT.
Scribes would literally make hundreds of copies painstakingly and they would be sent every where so that they would not be lost.
Even early church fathers when they penned a new letter would have their scribes make numerous copies and have them sent east west north and south before even revealing them.
Thus it was statistically impossible for the word of God to be Lost and know doubt God's Angels followed lead and protected them.
We have found books of the NT dated with in 200 years of them being written in the far east they traveled that far and that fast.
God is way bigger and more powerful than any man or spiritual being.
Ro 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
Ro 8:39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Mt 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Lk 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
Don't confuse the early Christians with modern day Evangelicals.
The Bible (to them) was the Hebrew books. Not the various letters and memoirs of The Apostles. Those did not yet become part of The Bible.

The Apostles were convinced Christ was coming back in their lifetime. They would never have thought to compile their writings into a Bible.
The Roman Catholic Church decided to do just that in the 4th and 5th century.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#421208 Feb 9, 2013
207
marge wrote:
(QUOTE)
[[Baptism by immersion, while it is the most biblical mode of identifying with Christ, is not (as some believe) a prerequisite for salvation. It is rather an act of obedience, a public proclamation of faith in Christ and identification with Him. Baptism is a picture of our leaving our old life and becoming a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). Baptism by immersion is the only mode that fully illustrates this radical change.]](QUOTE)
YEP!!!
Double yep!!!!!
marge

Ames, IA

#421209 Feb 9, 2013
truth wrote:
Who is light Paul or Jesus?
Always through Jesus;

"Your word is a lamp to guide my feet and a light for my path."
truth

Perth, Australia

#421210 Feb 9, 2013
rog nije bog
horn is not god

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