Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 673143 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

MICHAEL

Canada

#421295 Feb 10, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't mean to insult you by implying you're a member of a cult.
I don't have any doubt that you are a good person and trying to be the best Christian possible.
"If you can show me how I worship in a manner that is unscriptural, or how I follow and teach unscriptural things....."
By following the scripture alone, you are worshiping in a manner that is unscriptural. If you teach that everything about Christianity should be found in the Bible, that would be unscriptural"
As I stated a few posts above: The New Testament wasn't written in the yrs following Jesus Christ. Some writings weren't put down until 40-50 yrs after.
The earliest known book is from the Apostle Paul (Galatians or 1thess) written around 50 AD... www.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_testament
The Church functioned by Baptizing, Confession and the Holy Eucharist. The Holy Mass is talked about by Paul in 1Cor 11:23
"For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night He was betrayed took bread..."

Why did Paul not know Jesus? The earliest writer. All of Pauls writings NEVER mentions the MIRACULOUS VIRGIN BIRTH, or visitation by the Maji, no mention of any miracles what so ever, no mention of John Baptist or even the CRUCIFIXION.

Could it be these stories had not yet been invented until the writing of the gospels decades later? Can you verify who the actual writers of the gospels were? No you can't. Its all speculation. THATS NOT GOOD!

From the very beginning of the old testament right through jewish history, God claimed that the SABBATH was the 7th day. The men of the catholic church changed that to appease the pagans who worshipped the SUN-GOD, so it became SUN-GOD, SUN-DAY, SUNDAY WORSHIP...

There is not a JEWISH sabbath and a CHRISTIAN sabbath.....there is only one sabbath......the 7th day........BUSTED!

....something is terribly wrong CLAYPOOL!





Guest

Poplar Bluff, MO

#421296 Feb 10, 2013
Romans 12:2 (KJV)~ And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 5:26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
----------
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

John 3:5

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#421297 Feb 10, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't mean to insult you by implying you're a member of a cult.
I don't have any doubt that you are a good person and trying to be the best Christian possible.
"If you can show me how I worship in a manner that is unscriptural, or how I follow and teach unscriptural things....."
By following the scripture alone, you are worshiping in a manner that is unscriptural. If you teach that everything about Christianity should be found in the Bible, that would be unscriptural"
As I stated a few posts above: The New Testament wasn't written in the yrs following Jesus Christ. Some writings weren't put down until 40-50 yrs after.
The earliest known book is from the Apostle Paul (Galatians or 1thess) written around 50 AD... www.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_testament
The Church functioned by Baptizing, Confession and the Holy Eucharist. The Holy Mass is talked about by Paul in 1Cor 11:23
"For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night He was betrayed took bread..."
WOW! You actually said "By following the scripture alone, you are worshiping in a manner that is unscriptural. If you teach that everything about Christianity should be found in the Bible, that would be unscriptural"

Which scriptures say that following scripture alone is not sufficient? If there is such a scripture, why then should I believe it if you are correct in your teaching above? Why should I believe anything in the Bible if what you just said is true?

It is painfully obvious that the NT scriptures were not written for many years. Teachings were done with signs and miracles to confirm that the words spoken were from God. Yet, once the Word of God was complete those "childish things" were put away.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.asp...
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#421298 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Quoting from the following article that you should read:
"In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul argued that love is a more excellent attribute than miraculous gifts. After all, miraculous gifts (i.e., prophecy, tongue-speaking, supernatural knowledge, etc.) were going to fail, vanish, cease, and be done away (13:8). These gifts are identified in the text with the expression “in part”(13:9-10). The “in part,” or miraculous, would cease when the “perfect” had come. But to what does the “perfect” refer?"
"Paul offered a useful illustration to clarify his point. When the church possessed only small bits and pieces of God’s will, as revealed through scattered miraculous gifts and the gradual production, between approximately A.D. 57 and A.D. 95, of the written documents from the inspired writers of the New Testament, it could not achieve full spiritual maturity. It therefore was like a child (13:11). It lacked the necessary elements to reach spiritual adulthood. However, when the totality of God’s will, which became the New Testament, had been revealed, the church then had the means available to become “a man”(13:11). Once the church had access to all of God’s written Word, the means by which the Word was given (i.e., miraculous gifts) would be obsolete, useless, and therefore “put away”(13:11). Notice that Paul likened miracles to “childish things”(13:11). In other words, miracles were the spiritual equivalents of pacifiers that were necessary while the church was in a state of infancy. Since we now have access to “all truth”(John 16:13), the use of tongue-speaking and other miraculous enhancements in the church today would be comparable to an adult man or woman who continued to use a pacifier!"
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.asp...
Saban ; I do not need to see a miracle happen to know it happened, I do believe God is a miracle working God.
To see a person claim Jesus Christ as Lord and savior is a Miracle , a spiritual dead soul being re-born.
People are the Church, there are some people who stay an infant in the Lord because of lack of faith, and they are swayed by all kinds of teachings.(RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE).
THESE PEOPLE ARE BELIEVING EVERYTHING EVERYONE ELSE SAYS ; BUT THEY DON'T BELIEVE GOD AND WHAT HE SAYS.
The Church will never stop growning and maturing, till we reach Heaven and all the mysteries of the ages will be revealed.
I do believe the spiritual Fruits, and Gifts belong to the Holy Spirit, who He uses is His business not mine.
They are to impower, and edify the church.
When you see souls being changed and hearts break before the power of Almighty God. And Live completely transform by God.
What greater Miracle is there then this.
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#421299 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Have I ever said we could save ourselves through baptism? That is a strawman argument. We're it not for God's grace no one could be saved - we agree on that point.
Was Noah saved by God's grace?
Noah was saved by God's grace through His Faith, in a never failing God.
He believed God' His faith was counted as righteousness.
The same as Abraham,
Preston will beable to explain this better then me , Noah and his family in the ark when the world was flood was a form of baptism.
So was Moses and the children of Israel, when God parted the sea and they crossed on dry land.
The connection with the N.T. baptism is a spiritual one.
Clay

Denver, CO

#421300 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
WOW! You actually said "By following the scripture alone, you are worshiping in a manner that is unscriptural. If you teach that everything about Christianity should be found in the Bible, that would be unscriptural"
Which scriptures say that following scripture alone is not sufficient? If there is such a scripture, why then should I believe it if you are correct in your teaching above? Why should I believe anything in the Bible if what you just said is true?
It is painfully obvious that the NT scriptures were not written for many years. Teachings were done with signs and miracles to confirm that the words spoken were from God. Yet, once the Word of God was complete those "childish things" were put away.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.asp...
scripture alone is made up by a couple dudes- 1,600 after Christ. If you went back in time and mentioned sola scriptura to the Apostles, you'd get a long bank stare. Jesus established a Church not a set of Books. You can not show from scripture, that Jesus taught scripture alone. You can't show where any of The Apostles taught Scripture alone. So why do people believe this?

Btw, please don't ever think we don't acknowledge your relationship with Jesus Christ in its own right. I know so many righteous non Catholics...
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#421301 Feb 10, 2013
Guest wrote:
<quoted text>
1 Corinthians 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
Ezra 9:2 They have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, and have mingled the holy race with the peoples around them. And the leaders and officials have led the way in this unfaithfulness."
Malachi 2:15 Has not [the LORD] made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.
----------
1 Corinthians 7:13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him.
New International Version
Guest I owe you an apology, I am sorry for being insenitive.
I have no excuse, please forgive me.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#421302 Feb 10, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Saban ; I do not need to see a miracle happen to know it happened, I do believe God is a miracle working God.
To see a person claim Jesus Christ as Lord and savior is a Miracle , a spiritual dead soul being re-born.
People are the Church, there are some people who stay an infant in the Lord because of lack of faith, and they are swayed by all kinds of teachings.(RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE).
THESE PEOPLE ARE BELIEVING EVERYTHING EVERYONE ELSE SAYS ; BUT THEY DON'T BELIEVE GOD AND WHAT HE SAYS.
The Church will never stop growning and maturing, till we reach Heaven and all the mysteries of the ages will be revealed.
I do believe the spiritual Fruits, and Gifts belong to the Holy Spirit, who He uses is His business not mine.
They are to impower, and edify the church.
When you see souls being changed and hearts break before the power of Almighty God. And Live completely transform by God.
What greater Miracle is there then this.
I didn't intend to imply that you needed it. Those people in the first century did need it though. If they were following the Law of Moses and thought they were doing the correct things in the eyes of God, they needed a powerful message to show them otherwise. God provided a powerful message to them through the things His early disciples could perform.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#421303 Feb 10, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Noah was saved by God's grace through His Faith, in a never failing God.
He believed God' His faith was counted as righteousness.
The same as Abraham,
Preston will beable to explain this better then me , Noah and his family in the ark when the world was flood was a form of baptism.
So was Moses and the children of Israel, when God parted the sea and they crossed on dry land.
The connection with the N.T. baptism is a spiritual one.
Good. So we agree he was saved by God's grace just as we are. What would've happened if Noah had only relied on God's grace and he had not followed through with the commands he had been given. In short, was there something he had to do in order to accept the grace God offered?
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#421304 Feb 10, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
The Church of Christ is a cult in every way imaginable. Its not the real "Church of Christ".
They have a catchy name that seems to imply something, but its just not factual.
Christ started a Church that referred to themselves as Catholic from AT LEAST as early as 110 AD
Oh Jesus named you alright, He spoke very clearly about the Roman Catholic Church , the same pagan church that murdered all the apostles except John and crucified Christ.
The same Catholic Church that down through history, murdered and rapes and louted, using His Holy name.
You can read all about your church in revelations starting with Chapter 17.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#421305 Feb 10, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
scripture alone is made up by a couple dudes- 1,600 after Christ. If you went back in time and mentioned sola scriptura to the Apostles, you'd get a long bank stare. Jesus established a Church not a set of Books. You can not show from scripture, that Jesus taught scripture alone. You can't show where any of The Apostles taught Scripture alone. So why do people believe this?
Btw, please don't ever think we don't acknowledge your relationship with Jesus Christ in its own right. I know so many righteous non Catholics...
So God would not be capable of leaving His inspired Word with us once and for all in a medium that any person could use to know how to follow God's will?

We will just have to agree to disagree. I cannot imagine God leaving us the Bible if it were essentially worthless in meaning and if it was something ever-changing depending upon the man-made framework of the Catholic Church.

I'm curious, if you are correct in your thoughts about the Bible, how will we be able to know who the false teachers are? The NT warns us of false teachers! How will I be able to recognize them if the scripture that warns me of them is not a reliable basis for recognizing them?
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#421306 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't intend to imply that you needed it. Those people in the first century did need it though. If they were following the Law of Moses and thought they were doing the correct things in the eyes of God, they needed a powerful message to show them otherwise. God provided a powerful message to them through the things His early disciples could perform.
I do agree with you here Saban,:)
Its been wonderful debating with you on these issues.
Saban. I like you very much.
Sometimes I get a little carried away, with posting. LOL
I love the Lord Saban, I believe God speaks to us through the Holy Scriptures, sometimes He lays things on our heart people to pray for, or issues we are dealing with.
I don't belong to a denomination, like the catholic's like to say there is 42,000 of them. If I belonged to one of them are any of them right, in my opinion no .
I belong to Christ, completing sold out to Him.
marge

Leesburg, GA

#421307 Feb 10, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
scripture alone is made up by a couple dudes- 1,600 after Christ. If you went back in time and mentioned sola scriptura to the Apostles, you'd get a long bank stare. Jesus established a Church not a set of Books. You can not show from scripture, that Jesus taught scripture alone. You can't show where any of The Apostles taught Scripture alone. So why do people believe this?
Btw, please don't ever think we don't acknowledge your relationship with Jesus Christ in its own right. I know so many righteous non Catholics...
wrong, the bereans were considered more noble because they searched the Scriptures daily to see whether or not Paul was telling them the truth.

How else is one to know?
marge

Leesburg, GA

#421308 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Good. So we agree he was saved by God's grace just as we are. What would've happened if Noah had only relied on God's grace and he had not followed through with the commands he had been given. In short, was there something he had to do in order to accept the grace God offered?
"We are witnesses of these things and so is the Holy Spirit, who is given by God to those who obey him."
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#421309 Feb 10, 2013
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
"We are witnesses of these things and so is the Holy Spirit, who is given by God to those who obey him."
Marge, was there something essential for Noah to do in order to accept the grace God gave him?
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#421310 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Marge, was there something essential for Noah to do in order to accept the grace God gave him?
Obedience!
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#421311 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
So God would not be capable of leaving His inspired Word with us once and for all in a medium that any person could use to know how to follow God's will?
We will just have to agree to disagree. I cannot imagine God leaving us the Bible if it were essentially worthless in meaning and if it was something ever-changing depending upon the man-made framework of the Catholic Church.
I'm curious, if you are correct in your thoughts about the Bible, how will we be able to know who the false teachers are? The NT warns us of false teachers! How will I be able to recognize them if the scripture that warns me of them is not a reliable basis for recognizing them?
"test the spirits against the Word of God"
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#421312 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
WOW! You actually said "By following the scripture alone, you are worshiping in a manner that is unscriptural. If you teach that everything about Christianity should be found in the Bible, that would be unscriptural"
Which scriptures say that following scripture alone is not sufficient? If there is such a scripture, why then should I believe it if you are correct in your teaching above? Why should I believe anything in the Bible if what you just said is true?
It is painfully obvious that the NT scriptures were not written for many years. Teachings were done with signs and miracles to confirm that the words spoken were from God. Yet, once the Word of God was complete those "childish things" were put away.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.asp...
They cease to exist...
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#421313 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I still haven't been shown where my submission to baptism was a work. Why wouldn't faith be a "work"? You have to do something to have faith (hear and believe). To learn Covey's 7 Habits I would have to read and study his work - is this not work for me?
Romans 6:3-4 does a great job of showing what happens during baptism. We die to sin and we're buried. Our old life is in the grave. Just as Christ was raised from the grave leaving our sins behind, we are raised to walk in newness of life as new creatures, members of his body, "in" him, and members of His Kingdom or church.
Was Noah saved by Grace?
Was Noah saved by faith alone?
Was Noah saved by works?
God had given the Children of Israel the victory, but they had to have obedient faith to attain it. They had to go through the water (Red Sea-which is a great symbol of Jesus blood and baptism that would come later)
We have no issue with Verses like John 3:16. They're true! If we believe we will be saved - because if we believe we will (as Noah did) do as we're instructed to do.(Acts 2:38).
We are not justified by faith alone.
Baptism is a work....not of man...but the working of God....

Colossians 2:12

12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the [working of God,] who raised him from the dead.
Clay

Denver, CO

#421314 Feb 10, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
So God would not be capable of leaving His inspired Word with us once and for all in a medium that any person could use to know how to follow God's will?
We will just have to agree to disagree. I cannot imagine God leaving us the Bible if it were essentially worthless in meaning and if it was something ever-changing depending upon the man-made framework of the Catholic Church.
I'm curious, if you are correct in your thoughts about the Bible, how will we be able to know who the false teachers are? The NT warns us of false teachers! How will I be able to recognize them if the scripture that warns me of them is not a reliable basis for recognizing them?
The Bible is not worthless meaning to Catholics. I hope you don't think that. Its Sacred Scripture. And along with Sacred Traditions, they flow together in perfect harmony.
One of The 42,000 Christian sects would be the original. Therefore they'd have the authority. I'm sorry, but I just can't see how the current group that calls itself the "Church of Christ" could be the original. Who are their Apostolic fathers? Where are their other writings outside of The Bible? Who were some of their early leaders? The Catholic Church can show its the same body from the first century. Now, whether or not this group became corrupted under Constantine is a hot debate. But that would not be Biblical, because Christ promised the gates of hell wouldn't prevail against His Church. Therefore, a Roman Emperor surely would not either.

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