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#420603 Feb 7, 2013
Michael the Prince
Michael is mentioned more in Daniel than in any other book in Scripture.(See Daniel 10:13; 10:21; 12:1.) In all three references, He is called a prince—your prince and the great prince. Isaiah's prophecy about the Messiah (Isaiah 9:6) reveals oneof the key names he says that would apply to the Messiah is "Prince of Peace."
There is another verse in Daniel 8:25 where the "Prince of princes" is mentioned. Again, the cosmic conflict is being played out with Christ on one side and the devil on the other, with humanity serving as the battlefield. "Prince of princes" is actually the same term that is translated "prince of the host" in verse 11. This is similar to "Lord of lords" (Psalm 136:3), "God of gods" (Deuteronomy 10:17), and "King of kings" (Revelation 19:16). All these are titles of deity. He is even referred to as "Messiah the Prince" (Daniel 9:25).
Who is this being that the angels call the Great Prince? Let's let the Bible tell us.
Isaiah 9:6: "And his name shall be called …The Prince of Peace."
Acts 3:14, 15: "But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and … killed the Prince of life."
Acts 5:30, 31: "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and
hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour."
Revelations 1:5: "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth."
These verses clearly echo with three verses in Daniel in which Michael is called a "prince."
Is Michael Only One of Many?
Daniel 10:13 is probably the most difficult verse regarding Michael: "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me." It appears at first glance that Michael is only "one of" the chief princes. This is an unfortunate translation in the King James. The word "one" comes from the Hebrew word "echad," which is also frequently translated as "first," as in the president's wife being called "first lady." (See Genesis 1:5; 8:13.) This changes the whole meaning of the verse to Michael being first of, greatest or highest of, to the chief of princes—again a reference to Jesus. The prince of the kingdom of Persia who withstood the angel was no doubt the devil who frequently appears working in the shadow of earthly monarchs such as the king of Babylon, the king of Tyre, and the Roman power (Isaiah 14:4, Ezekiel 28:2, Revelation 12:4). And remember that Jesus calls Satan "the prince of this world" (John 12:31).
Daniel 10:21 says, "But I will show thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince." Notice here that the angel refers to Michael as your Prince. Who was Daniel’s prince? In the previous chapter, we see the answer. In Daniel 9:25, Daniel’s Messiah is called the prince, which is another clear indication of Michael’s identity! So Gabriel is saying that Michael the archangel is Jesus, who knows all the truth of Scripture. Michael Stands Up
The final reference to Michael in Daniel is in chapter 12: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people." Notice here that Michael is not called a great prince but "the great prince." Is there any prince greater then Jesus? He is also identified as the one who "standeth for the children of thy people." This means that He intercedes, defends and even stands as a substitute. Who could this be other then Jesus?
#420604 Feb 7, 2013
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:6 (KJV)
#420605 Feb 7, 2013
Wonderful! Then please do share with us the chapter and verse that calls the Blessed Virgin Mary the mother of anyone but Jesus.
I'm afraid just saying "yes there is" isn't quite enough, Marge. The Catholics have been asking this question for years and none of you has yet to produce said scripture. After all, you are sola scriptura aren't you?
#420606 Feb 7, 2013
Heavenly host refers to an army (Luk.2:13; Rev.19:19) of good angels mentioned in the Bible. It is led either by the Archangel Michael, Jesus, or by God Himself. Most descriptions of angels in the Bible describe them in military terms, such as encampment (Gen.32:1-2), command structure (Ps.91:11-12; Matt.13:41; Rev.7:2), and combat (Jdg.5:20; Job 19:12; Rev.12:7). Its specific hierarchy differs slightly from the Hierarchy of Angels as it surrounds more military services, whereas the Hierarchy of angels is a division of angels into non-military services to God. The heavenly host participate in the War in Heaven and, according to some interpretations, will battle Satan and Satan's own army at the End of Days and be victorious.
In the Book of Joshua 5:13-15, Joshua encounters a "captain of the host of the Lord" in the early days of his campaigns in the Promised Land. This unnamed heavenly messenger (traditionally said to have been the Archangel Michael) is of supernatural and holy origin, likely sent by God:
Once when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing before him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went to him and said to him,‘Are you one of us, or one of our adversaries?’ He replied,‘Neither; but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.’ And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshipped, and he said to him,‘What do you command your servant, my Lord?’ The commander of the army of the Lord said to Joshua,‘Remove the sandals from your feet, for the place where you stand is holy.’ And Joshua did so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavenly_host —Joshua 5:13-15 (NRSV)
1 Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And suddenly there was with the angel,.... That brought the tidings of Christ's birth to the shepherds: a multitude of the heavenly host: who being caused to fly swiftly, were at once with him, by his side, and about him; and which was a further confirmation of the truth of his message to them: these were angels who were called an host, or army, the militia of heaven, the ministers of God, that wait upon him, and do his pleasure; and are sent forth to minister to his people, and encamp about them, preserve, and defend them; see Genesis 32:1 These are styled an heavenly host, because they dwell in heaven; and to distinguish them from hosts and armies on earth; and said to be
multitude, for the angels are innumerable; there are thousands, ten thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand of them: it may be rendered "the multitude", and may intend the whole company of angels, who were all of them together to sing the praises of God, and glorify him at the birth of the incarnate Saviour, as well as to adore him; since it is said, "when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, and let all the angels of God worship him", Hebrews 1:6, and these were
praising God; on account of the birth of Christ, and the redemption that was to be obtained by him, for elect men; which shows their friendly disposition to them, and how much they rejoice at their spiritual and eternal welfare; see Luke 15:10; And thus, as at the laying of the foundation of the earth, these "morning stars sang together, and all these sons of God shouted for joy", Job 38:7 they did the same when the foundation of man's salvation was laid in the incarnation of the Son of God,
#420607 Feb 7, 2013
Jacob Prepares to Meet Esau
1And Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him.
2And when Jacob saw them, he said, This is God's host: and he called the name of that place Mahanaim.
2 Kings 6:16"Don't be afraid," the prophet answered. "Those who are with us are more than those who are with them."
2 Kings 6:17And Elisha prayed, "O LORD, open his eyes so he may see." Then the LORD opened the servant's eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
Psalm 34:7The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them.
Interesting in Egypt the Pharoah's Eldest son was the Crowned Prince and Commander and Chief of Pharoah's Army that kept the Laws of the Land etc.
God's only begotten son is also the Crowned Prince, Commander and Chief of God's Army and keeper of his Royal Law. Jesus Christ fulfilled that law and at his second coming he is coming back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
“What are you looking at?”
Since: Jan 08
#420608 Feb 7, 2013
Sounds like you should be accepting knowledge when it is presented.
Why don't you believe Jesus?
#420609 Feb 7, 2013
Figure this out.
Devout Jews do NOT believe in the trinity or sons of God.
Jesus and Mary were known as devout Jews. Why would Mary practice the jewish faith, if sons of God were forbidden in that belief? Wouldn't God have known that too?
The christian ONLY story of Jesus born into a Jewish belief. The story claims Jesus practiced his faith as a devout Jew. The scriptures say so. The miracle stories were when he was a devout Jew, his baptism while he was a devout Jew, the last supper while he was a devout Jew, died on the cross as a devout Jew, buried in Jewish custom/tradition....his whole life according to christian scriptures was Jesus as a devout Jew, yet jews do not believe in sons of God???
........3 days later without warning Jesus is no longer a devout jew but takes a complete 180 degree turn in starting a new belief system, that has no trained leader, no plan of operation, no rules, and no regulations. Who does that?(lol)
... For the next 300 years dozens of different christian groups spring up all claiming to be the right one and most not even believing that their leader never existed as a human being but a spirit only.
...... makes no common sense. Stop the confusion!
“What are you looking at?”
Since: Jan 08
#420610 Feb 7, 2013
Okay - good point - so why do you reject many of his teachings.
Your hypocracy is beginning to show.
#420611 Feb 7, 2013
The Angel of the Covenant
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
The messenger of the covenant spoken of here in Malachi is clearly a reference to Jesus Christ, and His first and second coming. The word translated as messenger in Mal 3:1 is the same word [H4397, mal'ak] used in the previous passages of the old testament where we saw the phrase angel of the Lord. So this would also be a proper translation:
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
In fact, this is how the Catholic Douay Rheims Bible translates this verse:
#420612 Feb 7, 2013
#420613 Feb 7, 2013
...God gave the world the Catholic Church, who's teaching Magistrium is infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit when teaching on faith and morals.
MICHAEL says.....excuse me!! You say morals??
Your church right this minute is going through the biggest IMMORAL scandal since reformation 500 years ago, and you know it.
Sorry the pain and truth might hurt, but the story must be told.
morals he says........UNBELIEVABLE!
#420614 Feb 7, 2013
I need not address anything I'll let scripture do it for me. The following you may deny but Scripture tells the TRUTH.
<quoted text>the Lord Himself comes down from heaven with the voice
of the Archangel it means the Lord comes with the voice of the
this verse in thess, is meaning that an archangel is[accompaning]
Jesus, along with Gods trumpet. using your reasoning that Jesus is an
archangel, we could assume that Jesus is also a trumpet.lol
Below is 3 testamnets to your lie.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, <<< with
the voice of the archangel >>>, and with the trump of God: and the
dead in Christ shall rise first:
King James Version (KJV)
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and
they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end
of heaven to the other.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when
the dead shall hear the <<< voice of the Son of God >>>: and they that
hear shall live.
Where 2 or 3 are gathered AMEN !!!!
#420615 Feb 7, 2013
Christ shall come to his temple, and purify the priesthood. They that continue in their evil ways shall be punished: but true penitents shall receive a blessing.
Mal 3:1 Behold* I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.
* Matt. 11:10; Mark 1:2; Luke 1:17; and 7:27.
The first angel or messenger mentioned in the verse alludes to John the Baptist, who preceded Jesus Christ and prepared the way for Him, but the angel of the testament / covenant who comes to His temple is clearly Jesus Christ. So Jesus is described in scripture as the *angel or messenger of the covenant*. That covenant likely being the one made to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:15, that a redeemer would come to rescue a fallen humanity, or in addition, as we have previously noted, it was Jesus who appeared to Moses on Mount Sinai in the burning bush, and He also gave the Ten Commandments to Moses on tables of stone, which were placed in the container known as the ark of the covenant.
Therefore, in Malachi both John the Baptist and Jesus Christ are referred to as angels, or messengers, in the broadest sense of the meaning of the word. An angel in scripture can simply be a messenger, without meaning the created heavenly winged-being that most associate with the term. This is the key point to be made, Jesus can be referred to as an angel (messenger) without detracting from His deity in any way at all.
The apostle Paul also refers to himself as an angel, meaning messenger:
Gal 4:12 (KJV) 12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.
Gal 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
So now, what of Michael the archangel? Is it so difficult to believe that he may actually be Jesus Christ? Let's look at each instance he is mentioned in the Bible and see-
ARCHANGEL / MICHAEL TEXT #1
1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the *archangel*, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Who raises the dead with His voice? Not a created angel, indeed not even a created archangel. The shout is given with the voice of the *archangel*, the LORD Jesus Christ Himself:
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
It is the voice of Jesus Christ (the Son of man) that raises the dead. Just as 1 Th 4:16 says, the Lord Jesus shall descend from heaven and shout with the voice of the Archangel, because He is the Archangel. With that shout, the righteous dead will be raised from their graves!
#420616 Feb 7, 2013
What about the NEANDRATHAL PEOPLE and the HOMO ERECTUS before Homo SAPIENS?
Were Adam and Eve HOMO ERECTUS? or were they HOMO SAPIENS?
---or is the ADAM and EVE story just another allegory....that makes no common sense?
#420617 Feb 7, 2013
Matt 1:24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, 25 but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.
**Does this passage prove other kids no but does prove she wasn't a virgin.
#420618 Feb 7, 2013
Church Fathers and Catholic Sources on Christophanies
Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons: Against Heresies book III, chapter 6:
2. Wherefore, as I have already stated, no other is named as God, or is called Lord, except Him who is God and Lord of all, who also said to Moses, "I AM THAT I AM. And thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: He who is, hath sent me unto you;" and His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who makes those that believe in His name the sons of God. And again, when the Son speaks to Moses, He says, "I am come down to deliver this people." For it is He who descended and ascended for the salvation of men.
Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons: Against Heresies book IV, chapter 10:
1.... "For if ye had believed Moses, ye would also have believed Me; for he wrote of Me;" [saying this,] no doubt, because the Son of God is implanted everywhere throughout his writings: at one time, indeed, speaking with Abraham, when about to eat with him; at another time with Noah, giving to him the dimensions [of the ark]; at another; inquiring after Adam; at another, bringing down judgment upon the Sodomites; and again, when He becomes visible, and directs Jacob on his journey, and speaks with Moses from the bush.
ST. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA also says it was the Saviour who spoke from the burning bush:
"The Saviour has many tones of voice, and many methods for the salvation of men; by threatening He admonishes, by upbraiding He converts, by bewailing He pities, by the voice of song He cheers. He spake by the burning bush, for the men of that day needed signs and wonders."
THE FIRST APOLOGY OF JUSTIN MARTYR.
Chapter LXIII.- How God Appeared to Moses.
And all the Jews even now teach that the nameless God spake to Moses; whence the Spirit of prophecy, accusing them by Isaiah the prophet mentioned above, said "The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib; but Israel doth not know Me, and My people do not understand."131 And Jesus the Christ, because the Jews knew not what the Father was, and what the Son, in like manner accused them; and Himself said, "No one knoweth the Father, but the Son; nor the Son, but the Father, and they to whom the Son revealeth Him."132 Now the Word of God is His Son, as we have before said. And He is called Angel and Apostle; for He declares whatever we ought to know, and is sent forth to declare whatever is revealed; as our Lord Himself says, "He that heareth Me, heareth Him that sent Me."133 From the writings of Moses also this will be manifest; for thus it is written in them, "And the Angel of God spake to Moses, in a flame of fire out of the bush, and said, I am that I am, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of thy fathers; go down into Egypt, and bring forth My people."134 And if you wish to learn what follows, you can do so from the same writings; for it is impossible to relate the whole here. But so much is written for the sake of proving that Jesus the Christ is the Son of God and His Apostle, being of old the Word, and appearing sometimes in the form of fire, and sometimes in the likeness of angels; but now, by the will of God, having become man for the human race, He endured all the sufferings which the devils instigated the senseless Jews to inflict upon Him; who, though they have it expressly affirmed in the writings of Moses, "And the angel of God spake to Moses in a flame of fire in a bush, and said, I am that I am, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob," yet maintain that He who said this was the Father and Creator of the universe.
several catholic links at the bottom of the page on this url
#420619 Feb 7, 2013
You know so much about Jesus and the bible, and what was said and believed, then was ADAM and EVE Homo Erectus or Homo Sapiens?
.....as you know Humans are primates of the family Hominidae.
I asked you Clay because you are brimming with knowledge.
I am so excited waiting for your reply!
#420620 Feb 7, 2013
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, chapter 113:
" ... I have proved that it was Jesus who appeared to and conversed with Moses, and Abraham, and all the other patriarchs without exception,..."
Entry on Angels, Catholic Encyclopedia online:
As an instance of how convinced some of the Fathers were in holding the opposite view, we may note Theodoret's words (In Exod.): "The whole passage (Exodus 3) shows that it was God who appeared to him. But (Moses) called Him an angel in order to let us know that it was not God the Father whom he saw -- for whose angel could the Father be?-- but the Only-begotten Son, the Angel of great Counsel" (cf. Eusebius, Hist. Eccles., I, ii, 7; St. Irenaeus, Haer., iii, 6).
Eusebius Pamphili, Bishop of Cï¿½sarea in Palestine, Hist. Eccles., I, ii, 7
Chapter 2. Summary view of the pre-existence and divinity of our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ.
... You will perceive also from the same words that this was no other than he [Jesus] who talked with Moses. For the Scripture says in the same words and with reference to the same one, "When the Lord saw that he drew near to see, the Lord called to him out of the bush and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, What is it? And he said, Draw not nigh hither; loose thy shoe from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. And he said unto him, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob."
TERTULLIAN, AN ANSWER TO THE JEWS,(Adversus Iudaeos)
TRANSLATED BY THE REV. S. THELWALL.
CHAP. IX.-- OF THE PROPHECIES OF THE BIRTH AND ACHIEVEMENTS OF CHRIST
... For He who ever spake to Moses was the Son of God Himself; who, too, was always seen.169 For God the Father none ever saw, and lived.170 And accordingly it is agreed that the Son of God Himself spake to Moses, and said to the people, "Behold, I send mine angel before thy" - that is, the people's - "face, to guard thee on the march, and to introduce thee into the land which I have prepared thee: attend to him, and be not disobedient to him; for he hath not escaped171 thy notice, since my name is upon him."172 For Joshua was to introduce the people into the land of promise, not Moses. Now He called him an "angel," on account of the magnitude of the mighty deeds which he was to achieve (which mighty deeds Joshua the son of Nun did, and you yourselves read), and on account of his office of prophet announcing (to wit) the divine will; just as withal the Spirit, speaking in the person of the Father, calls the forerunner of Christ, John, a future "angel," through the prophet: "Behold, I send mine angel before Thy" - that is, Christ's - "face, who shall prepare Thy way before Thee."173 Nor is it a novel practice to the Holy Spirit to call those "angels" whom God has appointed as ministers of His power. For the same John is called not merely an "angel" of Christ, but withal a "lamp" shining before Christ: for David predicts, "I have prepared the lamp for my Christ;"174 and him Christ Himself, coming "to fulfil the prophets,"175 called so to the Jews. "He was," He says, "the burning and shining lamp;"176 as being he who not merely "prepared His ways in the desert,"177 but withal, by pointing out "the Lamb of God,"178 illumined the minds of men by his heralding, so that they understood Him to be that Lamb whom Moses was wont to announce as destined to suffer. Thus, too,(was the son of Nun called) Joshua, on account of the future mystery179 of his name: for that name (He who spake with Moses) confirmed as His own which Himself had conferred on him, because He had bidden him thenceforth be called, not "angel" nor "Oshea," but "Joshua." Thus, therefore, each name is appropriate to the Christ of God-that He should be called Jesus as well (as Christ).
#420621 Feb 7, 2013
....Wonderful! Then please do share with us the chapter and verse that calls the Blessed Virgin Mary the mother of anyone but Jesus.
I'm afraid just saying "yes there is" isn't quite enough, Marge. The Catholics have been asking this question for years and none of you has yet to produce said scripture. After all, you are sola scriptura aren't you?
Michael says....below, no less than 30 scriptures that refer to Jesus BROTHERS and sons of Mary.
Remember it was your own christian fathers who wrote all this stuff.(lol) and you disagree with them.
Why would the scriptures in every instance use brother instead of cousin? Who would keep referrring to their cousins?(lol)
#420622 Feb 7, 2013
No it doesn't. The use of the word "until" doesn't mean that it occured afterwards.
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