Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

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The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Chuck

Dublin, OH

#419210 Jan 31, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
2 Tim. 3:14 - Protestants usually use 2 Tim. 3:16-17 to prove that the Bible is the sole authority of God's word. But examining these texts disproves their claim. Here, Paul appeals to apostolic tradition right before the Protestants' often quoted verse 2 Tim. 3:16-17. Thus, there is an appeal to tradition before there is an appeal to the Scriptures, and Protestants generally ignore this fact.
2 Tim. 3:15 - Paul then appeals to the sacred writings of Scripture referring to the Old Testament Scriptures with which Timothy was raised (not the New Testament which was not even compiled at the time of Paul's teaching). This verse also proves -that one can come to faith in Jesus Christ without the New Testament.
2 Tim. 3:16 - this verse says that Scripture is "profitable" for every good work, but not exclusive. The word "profitable" is "ophelimos" in Greek. "Ophelimos" only means useful, which underscores that Scripture is not mandatory or exclusive. Protestants unbiblically argue that profitable means exclusive.
2 Tim. 3:16 - further, the verse "all Scripture" uses the words "pasa graphe" which actually means every (not all) Scripture. This means every passage of Scripture is useful. Thus, the erroneous Protestant reading of "pasa graphe" would mean every single passage of Scripture is exclusive. This would mean Christians could not only use "sola Matthew," or "sola Mark," but could rely on one single verse from a Gospel as the exclusive authority of God's word. This, of course, is not true and even Protestants would agree. Also, "pasa graphe" cannot mean "all of Scripture" because there was no New Testament canon to which Paul could have been referring, unless Protestants argue that the New Testament is not being included by Paul.
2 Tim. 3:16 - also, these inspired Old Testament Scriptures Paul is referring to included the deuterocanonical books which the Protestants removed from the Bible 1,500 years later.
2 Tim. 3:17 - Paul's reference to the "man of God" who may be complete refers to a clergyman, not a layman. It is an instruction to a bishop of the Church. So, although Protestants use it to prove their case, the passage is not even relevant to most of the faithful.
2 Tim. 3:17 - further, Paul's use of the word "complete" for every good work is "artios" which simply means the clergy is "suitable" or "fit." Also, artios does not describe the Scriptures, it describes the clergyman. So, Protestants cannot use this verse to argue the Scriptures are complete.
2 Tim 2:21- purity is also profitable for "any good work" ("pan ergon agathon"). This wording is the same as 2 Tim. 3:17, which shows that the Scriptures are not exclusive, and that other things (good deeds and purity) are also profitable to men.
2 Tim. 3:16-17 - Finally, if these verses really mean that Paul was teaching sola Scriptura to the early Church, then why in 1 Thess. 2:13 does Paul teach that he is giving Revelation from God orally? Either Paul is contradicting his own teaching on sola Scriptura, or Paul was not teaching sola Scriptura in 2 Tim. 3:16-17. This is a critical point which Protestants cannot reconcile with their sola Scriptura position.
I get it Tony. If catholics don't believe the bible is the only/final authority, their popes can make up doctrines so catholics can be under their authority.

-assumption of Mary and my new favorite...all who follow her Son are her offspring.
ReginaM

Middletown, NJ

#419211 Jan 31, 2013
*[11:27–28] The beatitude in Lk 11:28 should not be interpreted as a rebuke of the mother of Jesus; see note on Lk 8:21. Rather, it emphasizes (like Lk 2:35) that attentiveness to God’s word is more important than biological relationship to Jesus.
http://www.usccb.org/bible/luke/11/

Amen! Now THAT is biblical exegesis! Not the silly nonsense that protestant put forth because they haven't got anything else.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#419212 Jan 31, 2013
Chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't do any of the 3.
Luke 11:27 As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him,“Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” 28 But he said,“Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
***Why didn't Jesus say to the woman in the crowd what you folks say about Mary?
Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - finally, to argue that Jesus rebuked Mary is to argue that Jesus violated the Torah, here, the 4th commandment. This argument is blasphemous because it essentially says that God committed sin by dishonoring His Mother.

Luke 11:28 - when Jesus says, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it," some Protestants also call this a rebuke of Mary. Again, to the contrary, Jesus is exalting Mary by emphasizing her obedience to God's word as being more critical than her biological role of mother. This affirms Luke 1:48.

Luke 11:28 - also, the Greek word for "rather" is "menounge." Menounge really means "Yes, but in addition," or "Further." Thus, Jesus is saying, yes my mother is blessed indeed, but further blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. Jesus is encouraging others to follow Mary's example in order to build up His kingdom.

Luke 11:27-28 - finally, Jesus is the one being complimented, not Mary. Therefore, Jesus is refocusing the attention from Him to others who obey the word of God. If He is refocusing the attention away from Him to others, His comment cannot be a rebuke of Mary His mother.

We call her the Blessed Virgin Mary because she is called blessed, she was a virgin and her name was Mary. We call her the Blessed Mother because she was called blessed and she is the mother of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who is God the Son.

You want to use this verse to belittle and demean her role, yet do you think Jesus would have broken the commandment by not honoring His mother? Why won't you honor His mother?
Chuck

Dublin, OH

#419213 Jan 31, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the woman in Revelation always only Israel?
Tony...we have a thing going here. Remember it's your turn. Please interpret for me if the Woman is Mary. thanks

Rev 12:6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#419215 Jan 31, 2013
Chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said I can prove from scripture it was the sole authority. I said if God's Word it good for training in righteousness, why use anything else?
I guess you would if you were catholic.
Most protestants adhere to sola scriptura. I guess you're an exception.

Why 'use' anything else? Because the gospel was preached orally for a decade or more before a single passage of the NT was written. The oral preaching of the Word of God by the same men who wrote the NT is no less valuable than the written Word of God. That's why.
Chuck

Dublin, OH

#419216 Jan 31, 2013
ReginaM wrote:
Sill protestants, tricks are for kids.
28 But he said,“Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
Yes, the Virgin Mary is blessed, but even more so because she heard the word of God and kept it, she did God's will.
The woman from the crowd said something about His mother and Jesus replied without saying a word about His mother and actually uses the word RATHER.

It's not there Regina...stop fishing for it.

All christians are blessed and I never said she didn't do God's will.
Chuck

Dublin, OH

#419217 Jan 31, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - finally, to argue that Jesus rebuked Mary is to argue that Jesus violated the Torah, here, the 4th commandment. This argument is blasphemous because it essentially says that God committed sin by dishonoring His Mother.
Luke 11:28 - when Jesus says, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it," some Protestants also call this a rebuke of Mary. Again, to the contrary, Jesus is exalting Mary by emphasizing her obedience to God's word as being more critical than her biological role of mother. This affirms Luke 1:48.
Luke 11:28 - also, the Greek word for "rather" is "menounge." Menounge really means "Yes, but in addition," or "Further." Thus, Jesus is saying, yes my mother is blessed indeed, but further blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. Jesus is encouraging others to follow Mary's example in order to build up His kingdom.
Luke 11:27-28 - finally, Jesus is the one being complimented, not Mary. Therefore, Jesus is refocusing the attention from Him to others who obey the word of God. If He is refocusing the attention away from Him to others, His comment cannot be a rebuke of Mary His mother.
We call her the Blessed Virgin Mary because she is called blessed, she was a virgin and her name was Mary. We call her the Blessed Mother because she was called blessed and she is the mother of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who is God the Son.
You want to use this verse to belittle and demean her role, yet do you think Jesus would have broken the commandment by not honoring His mother? Why won't you honor His mother?
Cut and paste from catholic answers???
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#419218 Jan 31, 2013
Chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
Tony...we have a thing going here. Remember it's your turn. Please interpret for me if the Woman is Mary. thanks
Rev 12:6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.
I've never claimed to be an authority on interpreting scripture, especially Revelation. That's a protestant thing. What I can tell you is that protestants, even the ones who claim to infallibly interpret scripture, don't agree that the woman in Revelation always references Israel. Again, you seem to be the exception. lol.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#419219 Jan 31, 2013
Chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
The woman from the crowd said something about His mother and Jesus replied without saying a word about His mother and actually uses the word RATHER.
It's not there Regina...stop fishing for it.
All christians are blessed and I never said she didn't do God's will.
Luke 11:28 - also, the Greek word for "rather" is "menounge." Menounge really means "Yes, but in addition," or "Further." Thus, Jesus is saying, yes my mother is blessed indeed, but further blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. Jesus is encouraging others to follow Mary's example in order to build up His kingdom.
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

#419220 Jan 31, 2013
ReginaM wrote:
*[11:27–28] The beatitude in Lk 11:28 should not be interpreted as a rebuke of the mother of Jesus; see note on Lk 8:21. Rather, it emphasizes (like Lk 2:35) that attentiveness to God’s word is more important than biological relationship to Jesus.
http://www.usccb.org/bible/luke/11/
Amen! Now THAT is biblical exegesis! Not the silly nonsense that protestant put forth because they haven't got anything else.
The Beatitudes; Jesus' Sermon on the Mountian is in Matthew 5 Regina not Luke
Chuck

Dublin, OH

#419221 Jan 31, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never claimed to be an authority on interpreting scripture, especially Revelation. That's a protestant thing. What I can tell you is that protestants, even the ones who claim to infallibly interpret scripture, don't agree that the woman in Revelation always references Israel. Again, you seem to be the exception. lol.
I never said it did either.

I said the Woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.
truth

Perth, Australia

#419222 Jan 31, 2013
ReginaM

Middletown, NJ

#419223 Jan 31, 2013
Chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
The woman from the crowd said something about His mother and Jesus replied without saying a word about His mother and actually uses the word RATHER.
It's not there Regina...stop fishing for it.
All christians are blessed and I never said she didn't do God's will.
The Greek word for "rather" is "menounge." Menounge really means "Yes, but in addition," or "Further." Thus, Jesus is saying, yes my mother is blessed indeed, but further blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. Jesus is encouraging others to follow Mary's example in order to build up His kingdom.

Silly wabbit! Take your pole out of the water, you're catching nothing but weeds!

All Christians are not blessed unless they DO the will of God. Not doing very well for someone who claims to follow scripture alone, Charles. It might help if you actually knew what Scripture was saying.
ReginaM

Middletown, NJ

#419224 Jan 31, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
The Beatitudes; Jesus' Sermon on the Mountian is in Matthew 5 Regina not Luke
LOL, please stop, you're killing me. I've got a stitch in my side from laughing so hard!

If you insist on calling yourself a Christian, get an education in the faith....please!!
Chuck

Dublin, OH

#419225 Jan 31, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never claimed to be an authority on interpreting scripture, especially Revelation. That's a protestant thing. What I can tell you is that protestants, even the ones who claim to infallibly interpret scripture, don't agree that the woman in Revelation always references Israel. Again, you seem to be the exception. lol.
This was your verse to prove the assumption of Mary:

Revelation 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

and then 4 verses down you believe it's still Mary and your arguement now is you are no an authority on interpreting scripture.

**huh**
marge

Ames, IA

#419226 Jan 31, 2013
Chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
I get it Tony. If catholics don't believe the bible is the only/final authority, their popes can make up doctrines so catholics can be under their authority.
-assumption of Mary and my new favorite...all who follow her Son are her offspring.
hee hee
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

#419227 Jan 31, 2013
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
The Greek word for "rather" is "menounge." Menounge really means "Yes, but in addition," or "Further." Thus, Jesus is saying, yes my mother is blessed indeed, but further blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. Jesus is encouraging others to follow Mary's example in order to build up His kingdom.
Silly wabbit! Take your pole out of the water, you're catching nothing but weeds!
All Christians are not blessed unless they DO the will of God. Not doing very well for someone who claims to follow scripture alone, Charles. It might help if you actually knew what Scripture was saying.
This is too funny to comment on.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#419228 Jan 31, 2013
Chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said it did either.
I said the Woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.
You said? Other sola scriptura protestants say you're wrong.
Clay

Chicago, IL

#419229 Jan 31, 2013
Chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
I get it Tony. If catholics don't believe the bible is the only/final authority, their popes can make up doctrines so catholics can be under their authority.
-assumption of Mary and my new favorite...all who follow her Son are her offspring.
Mary is our spiritual Mother. We approach her the way Jesus did. We try and imitate Christ by honoring His Mother. This isn't new.

"Woman, behold your son. Then He said to the disciple, son, behold your Mother. And from that hour he took Mary into his home"
John 19: 26-27

BTW, on a side note: if Mary had all these other children .. Why would Jesus entrust someone other than His siblings to take their Mom in?
ReginaM

Middletown, NJ

#419230 Jan 31, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
The Beatitudes; Jesus' Sermon on the Mountian is in Matthew 5 Regina not Luke
Alright, I've stopped laughing (for the time being).

Do you know what the word 'beatitude' means? Do you know that it is a proper noun, as in the Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mount, but is also just a 'plain old noun' and is used in Christian theology as such, and has been for 2,000 years?

III. CHRISTIAN BEATITUDE

1720 The New Testament uses several expressions to characterize the beatitude to which God calls man:

- the coming of the Kingdom of God;16 - the vision of God: "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God"17

- entering into the joy of the Lord;18

- entering into God's rest:19

There we shall rest and see, we shall see and love, we shall love and praise. Behold what will be at the end without end. For what other end do we have, if not to reach the kingdom which has no end?20

1721 God put us in the world to know, to love, and to serve him, and so to come to paradise. Beatitude makes us "partakers of the divine nature" and of eternal life.21 With beatitude, man enters into the glory of Christ22 and into the joy of the Trinitarian life.

1722 Such beatitude surpasses the understanding and powers of man. It comes from an entirely free gift of God: whence it is called supernatural, as is the grace that disposes man to enter into the divine joy.

"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God." It is true, because of the greatness and inexpressible glory of God, that "man shall not see me and live," for the Father cannot be grasped. But because of God's love and goodness toward us, and because he can do all things, he goes so far as to grant those who love him the privilege of seeing him.... For "what is impossible for men is possible for God."23

1723 The beatitude we are promised confronts us with decisive moral choices. It invites us to purify our hearts of bad instincts and to seek the love of God above all else. It teaches us that true happiness is not found in riches or well-being, in human fame or power, or in any human achievement - however beneficial it may be - such as science, technology, and art, or indeed in any creature, but in God alone, the source of every good and of all love:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive...

One example of the use of the word 'beatitude'.

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