Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.
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403,801 - 403,820 of 538,994 Comments Last updated 1 hr ago

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#419063 Jan 30, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>LTM, Robert is not the ROB who is a priest. Robert is a shake and bake catholic. today he is a catholic, tomorrow who knows?
many times the catholics on here welcome him back into their fold. as he comes and he goes. he has no foundation to become a Christian so he stays a luke warm catholic.
robert just likes to argue.
preston

Here is the problem. I directly challenge your authority using scripture and reason. And you have no fall-back position. This makes me someone "superfluous" in your site. In that way you can dismiss me.... My Christian calling came in 1972.

lol...Luke warm....As if I didn't see what you were trying to do....That was a rather indirect low blow....Hmmm. Just to obvious for me to let it pass.

If I speak of encounters with Jesus, then there is an equation in which you see yourself with God, and speak for God. I am not against this. Rather I question you when you are wrong, and go astray.

If you are an adept speaker and can "read" the crowd in your worship space, this does not make you a speaker for God. It means that you understand some things on human nature. And you have understanding of some things in the Bible(being at it for so long), yet this does not make you correct in either case.

There is no proof you can offer except that of being led by the Spirit, and even that can be counterfeited.

You talk a rather proudful game, and ask to debate your scriptural interpretations. And when I do you dismiss them....It is part of the inherent weakness of your position now....

I am quite zealous.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#419064 Jan 30, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
No surprise here Robert!.....Protestants are "ingrainly stuck" on the same anti-catholic judgmental questions-(-that have been refuted, proven erroneous, and scripturally validated (or disproved (depending on the their ridiculous assertions) over and over again!!!! i.e Infant Baptism, the eucharist, Jesus' visible Church, confession, Church tradition, Bible Only, True Sacred Church History, biblical interpretation, Apostolic Succession, Matthew 16, Primacy of Peter (Petros vs lithos), Mary, the Rosary, Salvation (faith & works) Early Church Fathers, Sin, Abuse, and on and on and on......When one subject after another is refuted by the TRUTH of the bible, the TRUE teachings of the Church or by TRUE Church History (they start all over again, with the same old "merry-go-round" (distorted trash comments) attacking the historical and biblical TRUTH of Jesus Christs One True Catholic, with the same "heretical" Protestant propaganda. Like I have told you before (as an ex-protestant---discussion, arguments, deliberation, or debate, is a "total waste of time". There is "not one" bible only protestant, that is on this forum to learn ANYTHING regarding the TRUTH of what the Catholic Church actually believes and teaches from the Bible, Church tradition, the True Words of Jesus (himself) or the TRUE teachings of the Church.
There only purpose here is to ATTACK the TRUTH of the bible, Jesus Christ and His One True Catholic Church.----I just speak the Truth--let is go at that and pray for their hostile, vengeful, bitter anti-catholic hearts, minds and souls........ Continue to remain strong and committed in the Biblical and historical TRUTH of your Catholic-Christian Faith Robert F.--Gods Blessing!
hojo
peace

I think there is a two point approach to the hostility.

First the older denominations have embedded in them every non-Catholic interpretation which can be imagined within their doctrines. For the most part these denominations have lost so many people, and doctrines watered down over the last couple of centuries, that they have little left except their opposition to the RCC....More or less they are on a permanent decline now....

Secondly, these have passed on to the newer reformed and evangelical movements their opposition to the RCC. But these have a problem. They are so "end-times" oriented, that they will last only a couple of generations before they lose steam, or they will have to reiorient their doctrine. In so doing. The RCC will not be the "Beast"..., and all their doctrine.

Most of the non-Catholic Christians on here fall into this second movement. And you know they are fanatical, and are getting mad at God for not having the "end-times" already. So this only furthers their fury at the RCC, as it rides out this man-made prophecy....The solution is to inform them little by little. They just can't take the whole truth at one time....
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#419065 Jan 30, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Read 'em, many times. The bible doesn't belong to you, it belongs to the Church. You may possess a copy and think it applies to you, but it doesn't. It was written, copied, translated and preversed FOR the Church and those IN the Church. Sorry to be so blunt with the truth, but you're one of the reasons protestants are so unlearned and unstable and twist the scriptures to your own destruction.
The Bible belongs to the Church.

Of course you are talking about the catholic church, and not The True Church of God.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#419066 Jan 30, 2013
It doesn’t take an elder, preacher or teacher to examine truth but an open heart.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#419067 Jan 30, 2013
Pope Sergius III obtained the papal office by murder. He lived openly with a woman who bore him several illegitimate children. His reign began a period known as "the rule of the harlots".


Pope John XII was an immoral man and whose palace was likened to a brothel. The bishop of Cremona, Luitprand said, "No honest lady dared to show herself in public, for Pope John had no respect either for single girls, married women, or widows – they were sure to be defiled by him, even on the tombs of the holy apostles, Peter and Paul."


Pope Boniface VIII maintained his position through lavish distribution of stolen money. He was quoted saying, "to enjoy oneself and lie carnally with women or with boys is no more a sin than rubbing one's hands together."


Pope John XXII was said to have seduced and violated three hundred nuns. He must have had a strong and insatiable libido for he kept a harem of no less than two hundred girls. He was called "the most depraved criminal who ever sat on the papal throne." A Vatican record says this about him, "His lordship, Pope John, committed perversity with the wife of his brother, incest with holy nuns, intercourse with virgins, adultery with the married, and all sorts of sex crimes... wholly given to sleep and other carnal desires, totally adverse to the life and teaching of Christ... he was publicly called the Devil incarnate."
7th Day Catholic Rocks

Poplar Bluff, MO

#419068 Jan 30, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
"Transubstantiation is when the priest is given power by the Holy Spirit to change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ."
1. The priest isn't given the "power" to change the bread and wine. He's not "doing" it.
2. Transubstantiation describes what takes place with the elements, the conversion of them into His body and blood. It is not describing the "power", the priest, the Holy Spirit, the Sacrifice, etc.
3. Transubstantiation is essentially the description of that moment, the before and after, when the change occurs. Nothing more.
4. Transubstantiation is a part of the doctrine of the Eucharist, it is not the doctrine itself.
You are describig something the Bibe never say's.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#419069 Jan 30, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
if anything, "Paul" or "God" isn't demanding anyone to read it, but you sure are.
Prove to the forum that "God" said for us to read the Bible.
You do have a specific statement from "God" to Moses, right?
Or are you going to make things up, like your co-patriots, and go into some wild-eyed tangent? Please don't.
Just post the citation to where "God" is saying to all of mankind to read the Bible.
I'll wait.
I never demanded anyone to read it I said God wants us to read it and he does want anthony to read it.
Why else would God give us the Holy Scripture.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#419070 Jan 30, 2013
What is sola scriptura?"
Answer: The phrase sola scriptura is from the Latin: sola having the idea of “alone,”“ground,”“base,” and the word scriptura meaning “writings”—referring to the Scriptures. Sola scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true.“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”(2 Timothy 3:16).
Sola scriptura was the rallying cry of the Protestant Reformation. For centuries the Roman Catholic Church had made its traditions superior in authority to the Bible. This resulted in many practices that were in fact contradictory to the Bible. Some examples are prayer to saints and/or Mary, the immaculate conception, transubstantiation, infant baptism, indulgences, and papal authority. Martin Luther, the founder of the Lutheran Church and father of the Protestant Reformation, was publicly rebuking the Catholic Church for its unbiblical teachings. The Catholic Church threatened Martin Luther with excommunication (and death) if he did not recant. Martin Luther's reply was,“Unless therefore I am convinced by the testimony of Scripture, or by the clearest reasoning, unless I am persuaded by means of the passages I have quoted, and unless they thus render my conscience bound by the Word of God, I cannot and will not retract, for it is unsafe for a Christian to speak against his conscience. Here I stand, I can do no other; may God help me! Amen!”
cont
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#419071 Jan 30, 2013
cont
The primary Catholic argument against sola scriptura is that the Bible does not explicitly teach sola scriptura. Catholics argue that the Bible nowhere states that it is the only authoritative guide for faith and practice. While this is true, they fail to recognize a crucially important issue. We know that the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible declares itself to be God-breathed, inerrant, and authoritative. We also know that God does not change His mind or contradict Himself. So, while the Bible itself may not explicitly argue for sola scriptura, it most definitely does not allow for traditions that contradict its message. Sola scriptura is not as much of an argument against tradition as it is an argument against unbiblical, extra-biblical and/or anti-biblical doctrines. The only way to know for sure what God expects of us is to stay true to what we know He has revealed—the Bible. We can know, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that Scripture is true, authoritative, and reliable. The same cannot be said of tradition.
The Word of God is the only authority for the Christian faith. Traditions are valid only when they are based on Scripture and are in full agreement with Scripture. Traditions that contradict the Bible are not of God and are not a valid aspect of the Christian faith. Sola scriptura is the only way to avoid subjectivity and keep personal opinion from taking priority over the teachings of the Bible. The essence of sola scriptura is basing your spiritual life on the Bible alone and rejecting any tradition or teaching that is not in full agreement with the Bible. Second Timothy 2:15 declares,“Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.”
Sola scriptura does not nullify the concept of church traditions. Rather, sola scriptura gives us a solid foundation on which to base church traditions. There are many practices, in both Catholic and Protestant churches, that are the result of traditions, not the explicit teaching of Scripture. It is good, and even necessary, for the church to have traditions. Traditions play an important role in clarifying and organizing Christian practice. At the same time, in order for these traditions to be valid, they must not be in disagreement with God’s Word. They must be based on the solid foundation of the teaching of Scripture. The problem with the Roman Catholic Church, and many other churches, is that they base traditions on traditions which are based on traditions which are based on traditions, often with the initial tradition not being in full harmony with the Scriptures. That is why Christians must always go back to sola scriptura, the authoritative Word of God, as the only solid basis for faith and practice.
On a practical matter, a frequent objection to the concept of sola scriptura is the fact that the canon of the Bible was not officially agreed upon for at least 250 years after the church was founded. Further, the Scriptures were not available to the masses for over 1500 years after the church was founded. How, then, were early Christians to use sola scriptura, when they did not even have the full Scriptures? And how were Christians who lived before the invention of the printing press supposed to base their faith and practice on Scripture alone if there was no way for them to have a complete copy of the Scriptures?
cont.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#419072 Jan 30, 2013
contThis issue is further compounded by the very high rates of illiteracy throughout history. How does the concept of sola scriptura handle these issues?
The problem with this argument is that it essentially says that Scripture’s authority is based on its availability. This is not the case. Scripture’s authority is universal; because it is God’s Word, it is His authority. The fact that Scripture was not readily available, or that people could not read it, does not change the fact that Scripture is God’s Word. Further, rather than this being an argument against sola scriptura, it is actually an argument for what the church should have done, instead of what it did. The early church should have made producing copies of the Scriptures a high priority. While it was unrealistic for every Christian to possess a complete copy of the Bible, it was possible that every church could have some, most, or all of the Scriptures available to it. Early church leaders should have made studying the Scriptures their highest priority so they could accurately teach it. Even if the Scriptures could not be made available to the masses, at least church leaders could be well-trained in the Word of God. Instead of building traditions upon traditions and passing them on from generation to generation, the church should have copied the Scriptures and taught the Scriptures (2 Timothy 4:2).
Again, traditions are not the problem. Unbiblical traditions are the problem. The availability of the Scriptures throughout the centuries is not the determining factor. The Scriptures themselves are the determining factor. We now have the Scriptures readily available to us. Through the careful study of God’s Word, it is clear that many church traditions which have developed over the centuries are in fact contradictory to the Word of God. This is where sola scriptura applies. Traditions that are based on, and in agreement with, God’s Word can be maintained. Traditions that are not based on, and/or disagree with, God’s Word must be rejected. Sola scriptura points us back to what God has revealed to us in His Word. Sola scriptura ultimately points us back to the God who always speaks the truth, never contradicts Himself, and always proves Himself to be dependable.
gotqustions.ca
7th Day Catholic Rocks

Poplar Bluff, MO

#419073 Jan 30, 2013
Lost churches of the east coast
When hurricane Sandy struck the East Coast, even houses of worship were not spared. A local television station interviewed a Catholic Black Woman from New Jersey and asked how the loss of churches in the area would affect their lives.
Without hesitation, the woman replied, "I don't know 'bout all those other people, but we ain't gone to Churches in years. We gets our chicken from Popeye's."
The look on the interviewer's face was priceless.
They live among us and they vote.
Now you understand how we got our president.
Clay

Chicago, IL

#419074 Jan 30, 2013
7th Day Catholic Rocks wrote:
Lost churches of the east coast
When hurricane Sandy struck the East Coast, even houses of worship were not spared. A local television station interviewed a Catholic Black Woman from New Jersey and asked how the loss of churches in the area would affect their lives.
Without hesitation, the woman replied, "I don't know 'bout all those other people, but we ain't gone to Churches in years. We gets our chicken from Popeye's."
The look on the interviewer's face was priceless.
They live among us and they vote.
Now you understand how we got our president.
A bit of a racist are you?
Clay

Chicago, IL

#419075 Jan 30, 2013
LTM wrote:
What is sola scriptura?"
Answer: The phrase sola scriptura is from the Latin: sola having the idea of “alone,”“ground,”“base,” and the word scriptura meaning “writings”—referring to the Scriptures. Sola scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true.“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”(2 Timothy 3:16).
Sola scriptura was the rallying cry of the Protestant Reformation. For centuries the Roman Catholic Church had made its traditions superior in authority to the Bible. This resulted in many practices that were in fact contradictory to the Bible. Some examples are prayer to saints and/or Mary, the immaculate conception, transubstantiation, infant baptism, indulgences, and papal authority. Martin Luther, the founder of the Lutheran Church and father of the Protestant Reformation, was publicly rebuking the Catholic Church for its unbiblical teachings. The Catholic Church threatened Martin Luther with excommunication (and death) if he did not recant. Martin Luther's reply was,“Unless therefore I am convinced by the testimony of Scripture, or by the clearest reasoning, unless I am persuaded by means of the passages I have quoted, and unless they thus render my conscience bound by the Word of God, I cannot and will not retract, for it is unsafe for a Christian to speak against his conscience. Here I stand, I can do no other; may God help me! Amen!”
cont
Gosh LTM, I really wish you'd stop posting lies.
The Catholic Church has never said their traditions are superior in authority to the Bible.
Your piece above is silly. It greatly lacks logic.
Historical fact:
The Church functioned WITH SACRED TRADITIONS for 30-40 yrs before much of the New Testament was written. And another 350 yrs before anything was officially declared as scripture.
None the less, sacred scripture and sacred tradition does not contradict each other.
Clay

Chicago, IL

#419076 Jan 30, 2013
Does any Protestant agree that the New Testament did not come labeled for us?
Didn't it take an Earthly people to determine if its scriptural or not?
I mean, make some sense y'all.
At least acknowledge that the Catholic Church at Rome compiled the letters, memoirs and Books they thought were inspired by God- in the 4th and 5th Century (60 yrs after Constantine)
Then, if you want, you could say that they fell away from those teachings.
Of course the problem with that would be: Jesus Christ really didn't promise to be with them til the end of the world. And the gates of Hell prevailed against His Church..

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#419077 Jan 30, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
You Confrinting, can continue to "deviously" manipulate and distort the true meaning of bible verses to "neatly fit into" your anti-catholic "cracker box" bible only Christianity, making these verses mean ONLY what "you want them to mean",----however- the fact remains that--the TRUTH of TRUE Church History and the TRUE interpretation of the bible, from the Early Church Fathers in 382, 393 and 397 AD---"WILL NEVER" change the TRUTH of the Gospel, that Jesus established and initiated His One True Apostolic Catholic Church. Again I repeat to you:
My Salvation, as well ANY and ALL OTHER Catholics Salvation, who are on this forum AND the other 1.168 Billion Catholics throughout the world, are NOT DEPENDENT upon your Protestant "bogus and distorted "personal opinionated" judgments and condemning obstinate preaching!!!....... I'll (continue) to put my faith, trust and hope in Jesus Christ, at Daily Mass, HIS OWN STATED AND EXPRESSED WORDS (in the Gospel) and in His "true body and true blood" (daily) in the Eucharist, along with the TRUTH of the TRUE teachings that Our Lord left for us. over 2000 years ago, manifested in and through His One True Catholic. Church....... God is NOT, NOR EVER will be, the author of your bible only "(judgmental and condemning) half-truth, half-heresy ministry.
God does NOT call "divisive" Christian ministers to do "Satans (judgmental) dirty work"!!
~~~

You wrote

God does NOT call "divisive" Christian ministers to do "Satans (judgmental) dirty work"!!

YOU AS A ROMAN CATHOLIC HAVE JUDGE EVERY CHRISTIAN GROUP ON EARTH AS

SUBSERVIENT TO YOUR PAGAN CHURCH IS ROME...

AND YOU CALL ME JUDGMENTAL...

THERE IS NO religious ORGANIZATION UPON ON EARTH THAT IS MORE DIVISIVE

THAN your Constantin Catholic (so called) Church.
Tiger Lily

New Zealand

#419078 Jan 30, 2013
ReginaM wrote:
They are alive and well in Heaven! They are the Church Triumphant.
Thanks for being exactly how I just described you to another poster.
It's good to be right!:)
In HEAVEN? yet you make great doctrine that MARY was assumed into Heaven as if it was not the usual to go to Heaven at death!
Jesus will come to Earth to RESSURECT the dead in Christ to take them to Heaven.
THAT'S WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS!

Or are you speakng form a POST Second coming perspective?

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#419079 Jan 30, 2013
Clay wrote:
Does any Protestant agree that the New Testament did not come labeled for us?
Didn't it take an Earthly people to determine if its scriptural or not?
I mean, make some sense y'all.
At least acknowledge that the Catholic Church at Rome compiled the letters, memoirs and Books they thought were inspired by God- in the 4th and 5th Century (60 yrs after Constantine)
Then, if you want, you could say that they fell away from those teachings.
Of course the problem with that would be: Jesus Christ really didn't promise to be with them til the end of the world. And the gates of Hell prevailed against His Church..
~~~

you wrote

"Of course the problem with that would be: Jesus Christ really didn't promise to be with them til the end of the world. And the gates of Hell prevailed against His Church.."

YOU HAVE YET TO PROVE THAT YOUR CONSTANTINE BRAND OF RELIGION IS

SCRIPTURAL....AND THAT YOUR RELIGIOUS SOCIETY IS THE TRUE CHURCH...

YOU CANNOT PROVE IT IS...

ALL YOU CAN GIVE IS THE TRACK RECORD OF YOUR CONSTANTINE CATHOLIC CHURCH ..

WHICH PROVES IT TO BE GUILTY....OF SOME OF THE MOST UNGODLY CRIMES

THAT WERE EVER COMMITTED

AGAINST HUMANITY. IN THE NAME OF YOUR god Constantine

THE INQUISITION ALONE LASTED 650 YEARS...
Clay

Chicago, IL

#419080 Jan 30, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
You wrote
God does NOT call "divisive" Christian ministers to do "Satans (judgmental) dirty work"!!
YOU AS A ROMAN CATHOLIC HAVE JUDGE EVERY CHRISTIAN GROUP ON EARTH AS
SUBSERVIENT TO YOUR PAGAN CHURCH IS ROME...
AND YOU CALL ME JUDGMENTAL...
THERE IS NO religious ORGANIZATION UPON ON EARTH THAT IS MORE DIVISIVE
THAN your Constantin Catholic (so called) Church.
Now, you keep sayin "Constantine catholic'.
But the only thing I see post Constantine is a New Testament canon.
Plus I don't see where he altered sacred teaching to be pagan as you claim. Even the most radical of radicals websites do not connect the dots with anything that makes sense with supposed Constantines dictating of the Church. I just don't see it...

Conclusion:
Catholicism pre Constantine is remarkably similar to Catholicism post Constantine.
How do you explain that Confrint?
Clay

Chicago, IL

#419081 Jan 30, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
you wrote
"Of course the problem with that would be: Jesus Christ really didn't promise to be with them til the end of the world. And the gates of Hell prevailed against His Church.."
YOU HAVE YET TO PROVE THAT YOUR CONSTANTINE BRAND OF RELIGION IS
SCRIPTURAL....AND THAT YOUR RELIGIOUS SOCIETY IS THE TRUE CHURCH...
YOU CANNOT PROVE IT IS...
ALL YOU CAN GIVE IS THE TRACK RECORD OF YOUR CONSTANTINE CATHOLIC CHURCH ..
WHICH PROVES IT TO BE GUILTY....OF SOME OF THE MOST UNGODLY CRIMES
THAT WERE EVER COMMITTED
AGAINST HUMANITY. IN THE NAME OF YOUR god Constantine
THE INQUISITION ALONE LASTED 650 YEARS...
Ok...if the New Testament; the 27 books you apparently agree are scriptural, came 50 yrs after Constantine...how do you explain the evil wicked Catholic Church determining the books you now hold in your hand?
Are you saying the devil determined sacred scripture??
Clay

Chicago, IL

#419082 Jan 30, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
In HEAVEN? yet you make great doctrine that MARY was assumed into Heaven as if it was not the usual to go to Heaven at death!
Jesus will come to Earth to RESSURECT the dead in Christ to take them to Heaven.
THAT'S WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS!
Or are you speakng form a POST Second coming perspective?
Who's scripture are you basing this on?

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