Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Jul 10, 2007 Read more: CBC News 582,404
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Read more

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#419051 Jan 30, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Only saints are in heaven.
Making things up again Anthony?

But of course, you don't have any proof, but will announce it from the mountaintops it is true anyhow.

Self.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#419052 Jan 30, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. Jesus is the one who decides who is a saint.
Sounds like all saints, or so-called, that became such after Jesus died, aren't really saints after all then, huh?

....but only in the eyes of men they are.

DOH!!

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#419053 Jan 30, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is the body???
He hadn't died on the cross yet???
We (Christians) are to proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.
Gospel = the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ....
We cannot have communion with Christ until we are in union with Christ.
a. Hold first finger out by iteslf in front of closed mouth.

b. Place side of finger next to lips.

c. In an up and down motion, move your finger over your lips.

This is how I see you and your "explanation".

You look like a top spinning. The finger just adds to the delusion.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#419054 Jan 30, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not the authority, regardless of any personal revelations you say you received, to declare the truth or non-truth of Catholic teaching.
Well considering "Catholic teaching" is so unfounded, your religion has no authority at all.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#419055 Jan 30, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Rob, every day when I sit down to supper, and say grace over the food, I remember Jesus. I remember He is the son of God , I remember Jesus died for this sinner, and I am so grateful for what He did.
When I lay on my bed at night and Pray, and give God thanks for everything, I remember Jesus is my Redeemer.
I have Bibles through out the house, if one chooses to read one.
Yes even a catholic Bible Rob.
I have believed in a God since I was 3, I don't have pictures suppositly of mary or Jesus , nor any plaster statues to remind me that there is a God.
I have gone periods not reading the Bible, then slowing I get a longing to read the word, a hunger is more like it.
There isn't one person who has truly been born again, forgets God and the gift of Grace and Mercy in their life.
We are God's we belong to Him, His spirit persues us , He never leaves nor forsakens us.
A picture or statue how little you think of God if you need them to remember Him. And to make Him so small, you think He is in a wafer because the catholic church says so.
'MY GOD IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD OF ISRAEL THE GREAT I AM'
HE REMINDS ME; WHO HE IS,
THE HEAVENS DECLARE THE GLORY OF THE LORD.
LTM

Those seeking God, generally have dry periods in their spiritual life. I see it as not so much a test, but as a reminder of a faith that is strengthened by the Grace of God.

The obligation of the servant, or creature of God is not paid or repaid. The debt of sin remains even in the smallest forgetting of humanity upon its Creator and Sustainer. And is only accepted by God through Jesus Christ.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#419056 Jan 30, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Today's protestants are not the recipients of the letters written by St. Paul. Much as you all want to put yourselves in their place, it cannot be done because you have seperated yourselves from the Church. He would not have considered you part of this or any other Christian community to whom he was preaching and teaching.
No - you are incorrect.

Many Protestants are part of the so-called "Church".

Since you don't get to decide who is and who isn't, you may want to stop saying that you do or what happened to an individual.

Fact - the so-called "Church" has only been defined by men - not "God" or Jesus - and especially not "Anthony".

But your arrogance always seems to get the best of you on this topic, huh?

Self.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#419057 Jan 30, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
No it's not.
Concern yourself with learning protestantism and quit telling Catholics what we are taught and believe.
Why should anyone do as you say/ask?

You do the same to them.
- i.e. "since you separated from the Church...." / "you believe in OSAS" / etc...etc....etc....

SOunds like the apple didn't fall too far fromt he tree after all, huh?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#419058 Jan 30, 2013
ReginaM wrote:

These have got to be the most ridiculous people I've ever encountered. They're lunatics who are actually informing their faith from the INTERNET of all places!!! Two of them are recommending in on this page alone! LOL!!!
They blatantly admit it, with no shame whatsoever....absolutely 100 percent, whacked out, absurd! And we're arguing with that stupidity??!! Ignorance of that kind can never be penetrated...never, ever, never. No wonder most of us just sit back and laugh at them anymore!

New Agbe writes:

I say the same thing everyday about Catholics. Huh, imagine that - Protestants and Catholics and their inability to follow Jesus, but will follow any Tom, Dick or Harry who some other man said was "good to read".

*sighs*

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#419060 Jan 30, 2013
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
And now I agree with you, Robert. This is pretty much my thinking on the matter also. Pride, envy, a need to justify and rationalize what they believe based solely on the destruction of what they know to be the truth but are too proud to admit (there's that pride again), and of course the abject ignorance. If I'm not mistaken, this is the recipe for bigotry.
I know I've been grossly unkind lately, and that's something I have to work on, but more than anything I detest their lies. It's too unconscionable. We are called to defend the faith and the Church because they are of God, but you're correct in that nothing will change especially after all this time. It does keep one on their toes though, lol! And it's certainly been an eye-opener at the audacity of some people to call themselves Christians. I had no idea protestants were such hateful people!!
Their behavior here is causing me to feel some prejudice toward all protestants now, and that's not good. I wonder if these people are proud of their witness at turning people off?
ReginaM
Peace

I think there is a need for reflection on our own shortcomings here. After all no one is perfect in their knowledge and understanding.

There hasn't been much of a dialogue here on the virtues....So I think the opposite happens...,the vices come out. lol At least in this way, we can keep on our toes....

What is interesting to me is the mantra of the same argument by the same people. It seems the more they say it, the more they believe it. There is no way to break the concrete, using reason and faith....Anyway it is the fallacy of repetition. It would be interesting if a "new" angle to their argument could at least add some legetimacy to it....(Or at least some real facts.)

The one I laugh at the most is "millions and millions"...., I just wonder when it will be trillions and trillions....

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#419061 Jan 30, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>LTM, Robert is not the ROB who is a priest. Robert is a shake and bake catholic. today he is a catholic, tomorrow who knows?
many times the catholics on here welcome him back into their fold. as he comes and he goes. he has no foundation to become a Christian so he stays a luke warm catholic.
robert just likes to argue.
preston

No. I like a resolution to differences, but greater still I prefer being a peacemaker.

I bring things up to you in a rather direct manner, not as a belligerent, rather that it might give you pause and insight.

At your service..., as a part of the shared common priesthood.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#419062 Jan 30, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>i am not the least surprised because you are offended. you, clay and anthony have been given BIBLE VERSES to read and ponder on.
[And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.]
it is a shame that catholics are offended by the Word of God.
but sad to say, when I defend the Word of God(NOT MY CHURCH), you catholics turn on me like vultures.
and I am not interested in what Robert says.matthew 13:21 fits robert to a tee.
preston

I know....

I Cor 13:

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#419063 Jan 30, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>LTM, Robert is not the ROB who is a priest. Robert is a shake and bake catholic. today he is a catholic, tomorrow who knows?
many times the catholics on here welcome him back into their fold. as he comes and he goes. he has no foundation to become a Christian so he stays a luke warm catholic.
robert just likes to argue.
preston

Here is the problem. I directly challenge your authority using scripture and reason. And you have no fall-back position. This makes me someone "superfluous" in your site. In that way you can dismiss me.... My Christian calling came in 1972.

lol...Luke warm....As if I didn't see what you were trying to do....That was a rather indirect low blow....Hmmm. Just to obvious for me to let it pass.

If I speak of encounters with Jesus, then there is an equation in which you see yourself with God, and speak for God. I am not against this. Rather I question you when you are wrong, and go astray.

If you are an adept speaker and can "read" the crowd in your worship space, this does not make you a speaker for God. It means that you understand some things on human nature. And you have understanding of some things in the Bible(being at it for so long), yet this does not make you correct in either case.

There is no proof you can offer except that of being led by the Spirit, and even that can be counterfeited.

You talk a rather proudful game, and ask to debate your scriptural interpretations. And when I do you dismiss them....It is part of the inherent weakness of your position now....

I am quite zealous.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#419064 Jan 30, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
No surprise here Robert!.....Protestants are "ingrainly stuck" on the same anti-catholic judgmental questions-(-that have been refuted, proven erroneous, and scripturally validated (or disproved (depending on the their ridiculous assertions) over and over again!!!! i.e Infant Baptism, the eucharist, Jesus' visible Church, confession, Church tradition, Bible Only, True Sacred Church History, biblical interpretation, Apostolic Succession, Matthew 16, Primacy of Peter (Petros vs lithos), Mary, the Rosary, Salvation (faith & works) Early Church Fathers, Sin, Abuse, and on and on and on......When one subject after another is refuted by the TRUTH of the bible, the TRUE teachings of the Church or by TRUE Church History (they start all over again, with the same old "merry-go-round" (distorted trash comments) attacking the historical and biblical TRUTH of Jesus Christs One True Catholic, with the same "heretical" Protestant propaganda. Like I have told you before (as an ex-protestant---discussion, arguments, deliberation, or debate, is a "total waste of time". There is "not one" bible only protestant, that is on this forum to learn ANYTHING regarding the TRUTH of what the Catholic Church actually believes and teaches from the Bible, Church tradition, the True Words of Jesus (himself) or the TRUE teachings of the Church.
There only purpose here is to ATTACK the TRUTH of the bible, Jesus Christ and His One True Catholic Church.----I just speak the Truth--let is go at that and pray for their hostile, vengeful, bitter anti-catholic hearts, minds and souls........ Continue to remain strong and committed in the Biblical and historical TRUTH of your Catholic-Christian Faith Robert F.--Gods Blessing!
hojo
peace

I think there is a two point approach to the hostility.

First the older denominations have embedded in them every non-Catholic interpretation which can be imagined within their doctrines. For the most part these denominations have lost so many people, and doctrines watered down over the last couple of centuries, that they have little left except their opposition to the RCC....More or less they are on a permanent decline now....

Secondly, these have passed on to the newer reformed and evangelical movements their opposition to the RCC. But these have a problem. They are so "end-times" oriented, that they will last only a couple of generations before they lose steam, or they will have to reiorient their doctrine. In so doing. The RCC will not be the "Beast"..., and all their doctrine.

Most of the non-Catholic Christians on here fall into this second movement. And you know they are fanatical, and are getting mad at God for not having the "end-times" already. So this only furthers their fury at the RCC, as it rides out this man-made prophecy....The solution is to inform them little by little. They just can't take the whole truth at one time....
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#419065 Jan 30, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Read 'em, many times. The bible doesn't belong to you, it belongs to the Church. You may possess a copy and think it applies to you, but it doesn't. It was written, copied, translated and preversed FOR the Church and those IN the Church. Sorry to be so blunt with the truth, but you're one of the reasons protestants are so unlearned and unstable and twist the scriptures to your own destruction.
The Bible belongs to the Church.

Of course you are talking about the catholic church, and not The True Church of God.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#419066 Jan 30, 2013
It doesn’t take an elder, preacher or teacher to examine truth but an open heart.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#419067 Jan 30, 2013
Pope Sergius III obtained the papal office by murder. He lived openly with a woman who bore him several illegitimate children. His reign began a period known as "the rule of the harlots".


Pope John XII was an immoral man and whose palace was likened to a brothel. The bishop of Cremona, Luitprand said, "No honest lady dared to show herself in public, for Pope John had no respect either for single girls, married women, or widows – they were sure to be defiled by him, even on the tombs of the holy apostles, Peter and Paul."


Pope Boniface VIII maintained his position through lavish distribution of stolen money. He was quoted saying, "to enjoy oneself and lie carnally with women or with boys is no more a sin than rubbing one's hands together."


Pope John XXII was said to have seduced and violated three hundred nuns. He must have had a strong and insatiable libido for he kept a harem of no less than two hundred girls. He was called "the most depraved criminal who ever sat on the papal throne." A Vatican record says this about him, "His lordship, Pope John, committed perversity with the wife of his brother, incest with holy nuns, intercourse with virgins, adultery with the married, and all sorts of sex crimes... wholly given to sleep and other carnal desires, totally adverse to the life and teaching of Christ... he was publicly called the Devil incarnate."
7th Day Catholic Rocks

Poplar Bluff, MO

#419068 Jan 30, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
"Transubstantiation is when the priest is given power by the Holy Spirit to change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ."
1. The priest isn't given the "power" to change the bread and wine. He's not "doing" it.
2. Transubstantiation describes what takes place with the elements, the conversion of them into His body and blood. It is not describing the "power", the priest, the Holy Spirit, the Sacrifice, etc.
3. Transubstantiation is essentially the description of that moment, the before and after, when the change occurs. Nothing more.
4. Transubstantiation is a part of the doctrine of the Eucharist, it is not the doctrine itself.
You are describig something the Bibe never say's.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#419069 Jan 30, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
if anything, "Paul" or "God" isn't demanding anyone to read it, but you sure are.
Prove to the forum that "God" said for us to read the Bible.
You do have a specific statement from "God" to Moses, right?
Or are you going to make things up, like your co-patriots, and go into some wild-eyed tangent? Please don't.
Just post the citation to where "God" is saying to all of mankind to read the Bible.
I'll wait.
I never demanded anyone to read it I said God wants us to read it and he does want anthony to read it.
Why else would God give us the Holy Scripture.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#419070 Jan 30, 2013
What is sola scriptura?"
Answer: The phrase sola scriptura is from the Latin: sola having the idea of “alone,”“ground,”“base,” and the word scriptura meaning “writings”—referring to the Scriptures. Sola scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true.“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”(2 Timothy 3:16).
Sola scriptura was the rallying cry of the Protestant Reformation. For centuries the Roman Catholic Church had made its traditions superior in authority to the Bible. This resulted in many practices that were in fact contradictory to the Bible. Some examples are prayer to saints and/or Mary, the immaculate conception, transubstantiation, infant baptism, indulgences, and papal authority. Martin Luther, the founder of the Lutheran Church and father of the Protestant Reformation, was publicly rebuking the Catholic Church for its unbiblical teachings. The Catholic Church threatened Martin Luther with excommunication (and death) if he did not recant. Martin Luther's reply was,“Unless therefore I am convinced by the testimony of Scripture, or by the clearest reasoning, unless I am persuaded by means of the passages I have quoted, and unless they thus render my conscience bound by the Word of God, I cannot and will not retract, for it is unsafe for a Christian to speak against his conscience. Here I stand, I can do no other; may God help me! Amen!”
cont
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#419071 Jan 30, 2013
cont
The primary Catholic argument against sola scriptura is that the Bible does not explicitly teach sola scriptura. Catholics argue that the Bible nowhere states that it is the only authoritative guide for faith and practice. While this is true, they fail to recognize a crucially important issue. We know that the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible declares itself to be God-breathed, inerrant, and authoritative. We also know that God does not change His mind or contradict Himself. So, while the Bible itself may not explicitly argue for sola scriptura, it most definitely does not allow for traditions that contradict its message. Sola scriptura is not as much of an argument against tradition as it is an argument against unbiblical, extra-biblical and/or anti-biblical doctrines. The only way to know for sure what God expects of us is to stay true to what we know He has revealed—the Bible. We can know, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that Scripture is true, authoritative, and reliable. The same cannot be said of tradition.
The Word of God is the only authority for the Christian faith. Traditions are valid only when they are based on Scripture and are in full agreement with Scripture. Traditions that contradict the Bible are not of God and are not a valid aspect of the Christian faith. Sola scriptura is the only way to avoid subjectivity and keep personal opinion from taking priority over the teachings of the Bible. The essence of sola scriptura is basing your spiritual life on the Bible alone and rejecting any tradition or teaching that is not in full agreement with the Bible. Second Timothy 2:15 declares,“Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.”
Sola scriptura does not nullify the concept of church traditions. Rather, sola scriptura gives us a solid foundation on which to base church traditions. There are many practices, in both Catholic and Protestant churches, that are the result of traditions, not the explicit teaching of Scripture. It is good, and even necessary, for the church to have traditions. Traditions play an important role in clarifying and organizing Christian practice. At the same time, in order for these traditions to be valid, they must not be in disagreement with God’s Word. They must be based on the solid foundation of the teaching of Scripture. The problem with the Roman Catholic Church, and many other churches, is that they base traditions on traditions which are based on traditions which are based on traditions, often with the initial tradition not being in full harmony with the Scriptures. That is why Christians must always go back to sola scriptura, the authoritative Word of God, as the only solid basis for faith and practice.
On a practical matter, a frequent objection to the concept of sola scriptura is the fact that the canon of the Bible was not officially agreed upon for at least 250 years after the church was founded. Further, the Scriptures were not available to the masses for over 1500 years after the church was founded. How, then, were early Christians to use sola scriptura, when they did not even have the full Scriptures? And how were Christians who lived before the invention of the printing press supposed to base their faith and practice on Scripture alone if there was no way for them to have a complete copy of the Scriptures?
cont.

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