Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

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#418254
Jan 26, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
No Preston, its on you guys to prove sola scripture. Protestants added this teaching a few hundred yrs ago. It wasn't taught prior in all of Christianity since 33 AD.
When Jesus said to "live by every word that proceeded from his mouth" this would include things not written down.
for some reason, Luke the Author of Two of the Gospels doesnt agree with you and false theology.

Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning,[[[to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught." Luke 1:1-4]]].

to write it out for you.

so you may know the exact truth.

not one mention of you ,clay ,to need anything else but what is written so YOU may know the exact truth.

but I really dont beleive that you will accept that for one simple reason.

IT IS SOLA SCRIPTURE AND STANDS ON ITS OWN, UNLIKE WHAT YOUR CHURCH WISHES TO DISCLAIM.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

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#418255
Jan 26, 2013
 

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atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>sorry, but you are really mistaken. the Bible is our ONLY authority, not me, nor anyone else.
however when I make a point(unlike clay) i reinforce my opine with what is written in the Bible.
then when a person disagees, they are disagreeeing with God, not me.
No. The bible is an authority, but it cannot be the ONLY authority because we MUST get it right. And if two people who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit have contradictory 'biblical' positions, we MUST be able to tell who's right. If Clay uses the bible only and you use the bible only, it's a stalemate.

Jesus NEVER intended for us to be left in a stalemate. He founded a Church with authority (keys, bind and loose, etc.).
Clay

United States

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#418256
Jan 26, 2013
 
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>lol.
If you really want to know what I think on this, then look up what the Catholic Church authoritatively teaches on it.
THAT IS LIKE SOME BROWBEATEN POOR EXCUSE FOR A HUSBAND TO SAY.
YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT I THINK? ASK MY WIFE!!!!
sorry to all wives, but as soon as I read his reply, that came to mind.lol.
but hey, dont worry about it clay, Dust Storm will come on and tell us what you think.
wow, talk about hypocrisy!
Aren't you the fella who claims Jesus spoke to him and told you to preach the Gospel? Your Grandpa died; spoke to God and came back to Earth with a message for you... You said you had a unique experience, therefore we all should listen to YOU?

You want people to consider you an authority on sacred scripture, so don't mock me for seeking what I consider the authority: The teaching Magistrium of the Holy Catholic Church.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

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#418257
Jan 26, 2013
 

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atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>for some reason, Luke the Author of Two of the Gospels doesnt agree with you and false theology.
Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning,[[[to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught." Luke 1:1-4]]].
to write it out for you.
so you may know the exact truth.
not one mention of you ,clay ,to need anything else but what is written so YOU may know the exact truth.
but I really dont beleive that you will accept that for one simple reason.
IT IS SOLA SCRIPTURE AND STANDS ON ITS OWN, UNLIKE WHAT YOUR CHURCH WISHES TO DISCLAIM.
Douay
"...that you may know the verity of those words in which you have been instructed."

"Official" KJV

"...That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed."

There is NO word "exact".

Since: Jan 08

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#418258
Jan 26, 2013
 
Matthew 4:1-11. Three times Jesus was tempted by the Devil and each time Jesus replied exactly the same three dangerous words that defeated the Devil: "IT IS WRITTEN" Read it for yourself!

AND AT NO TIME DID jESUS STOP AND SAY TO THE devil, LET ME GO BACK AND READ WHAT THE RCC SAYS ABOUT THIS[AS CLAY JUST DID] SO I CAN USE SOME ORAL TRADITION AGAINST YOU.

No, he said; it is written;
Clay

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#418259
Jan 26, 2013
 
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>for some reason, Luke the Author of Two of the Gospels doesnt agree with you and false theology.
Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning,[[[to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught." Luke 1:1-4]]].
to write it out for you.
so you may know the exact truth.
not one mention of you ,clay ,to need anything else but what is written so YOU may know the exact truth.
but I really dont beleive that you will accept that for one simple reason.
IT IS SOLA SCRIPTURE AND STANDS ON ITS OWN, UNLIKE WHAT YOUR CHURCH WISHES TO DISCLAIM.
Well, my personal testimony is, I wasn't led to Christ because I read something.
Put me in the group of billions that were led to Christ WITHOUT a Bible.(or I should say,'without a personal printed family Bible)

In fact, the Catholic Church is unique from all of you, because they didn't read about Jesus, then form a Church. They didn't read Matthew 16:18, then establish a Pope. They didn't read the Gospel of John and 1Cor and establish the Eucharist..
These things were in place for hundreds of yrs, THEN they put together a Bible.
I know you know this. But if you still want to argue it...could you please tell me how you think the Bible came to be? Why were the books put into the Bible and by whom and when??
Pad

Rockford, IL

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#418260
Jan 26, 2013
 
Regina, the Audacity of the Pope: continued.........The Apostle Peter writes in his first epistle chapter 2:
verse2"As newborn babes d e s i r e the sincere Milk of the w o r d, that you may grow thereby:
3 "If so be you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 "To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men,but chosen of God and precious.
5 "You also, as lively S T O N E S, are built up a Spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."
verse 8 "AND a s t o n e of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 "BUT you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a PECULIAR, people; that you should s h o w forth the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvellous light." 1Peter 2

VERSE 10"WHICH in time p a s t were not a people, but are now the people of God; which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11"Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul:"

It is a constant reminder that the Church no matter what age or time period struggled with the flesh and the spirit,it was in the individuals and it was in the church corporately.Those things determined the outcome of how believers survived to either continu the existance of the Body or congregation,or to lose it.Persecution was bad enough to contend with,but infighting always threatened the unity of the believers.

Jesus was that stone of stumbling for the House of Israel,and He in effect is the same to all humanbeings,even though we may be believers.Our unity only is in the Perfect life of Christ,in and when He is manifested through the Holy Spirit who guides us,and is in us.

we are a peculiar people,I mean every believer no matter what the affiliation.We all base our faith on Christ,and what He did,in both His life and DEATH,and the Father raised Him from the grave,Later He ascended into heaven,and we all long for His Return.

How basic and unified are we when we trust in those truths that include the very life,teachings,sufferings,cruc ifixion,death,Resurrection and Soon coming of our Lord?For one day is as a thousand years to the Lord.

PECULIAR- distincly strange or unusual, belonging exclusively to some p e r s o n, group or thing. Distinguished in nature or character from others.
Synonyms-bizzare,eccentric,odd , u n i q u e.).

Do I agree that we need unity? of course,but only in the Spirit.He alone knows what is of Christ in us and what is not.It is true individually,and corporately.

I have learned as a believer to live in this walk without the things you Catholics so treasure.I think you know what I mean,it really does not pay to expound on those things all the time.Statues-beads,the veneration of Mary,liturgy,the titles of Holy Father for the Pope,the politics of the RCC,past and present.

All of these things have no contribution to my faith in Christ,and to Know Him is to Love Him.Those things I mentioned have no bearing on the life I have learned to live from the Scriptures,and that never tires,it is sometimes as fresh as when it all first began in my life.

We are cultivating even as we post here,the fruit of the Spirit has to overcome those fruits of darkness that we so long harbored in our lives,even before we MEET with Christ,and allow His change in us.

It is sad that we all are divided,but all yet claim to be from the same Lord Jesus Christ.But what is more important that we main steadfast in loving Him,no matter that we as brothers and sisters strongly disagree on how to worship,and serve Him best.

Those things which divide us also are stumbling blocks,but we can still care and love one another,that is the main ingredient to serving Christ that we love one another. You say it is hate that consumes many of us:cont.

Since: Jan 08

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#418261
Jan 26, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
wow, talk about hypocrisy!
Aren't you the fella who claims Jesus spoke to him and told you to preach the Gospel? Your Grandpa died; spoke to God and came back to Earth with a message for you... You said you had a unique experience, therefore we all should listen to YOU?
You want people to consider you an authority on sacred scripture, so don't mock me for seeking what I consider the authority: The teaching Magistrium of the Holy Catholic Church.
No, clay, the hypocrisy came from YOU.

I havent ever asked you to believe me in anything, which is why I use the Bible to prove my point. which you didnt when you said you had an opinion, yet you couldnt give it.

If I have an opinion, I dont need to go back to some magazine nor some church doctrine and theology to give it to you. I do realize that I am more astute than many on here when it comes to what the Bible says and what it teaches.and my experiences [validate] my calling, just as Paul gave his experiences, when he first came into a new place to preach the Gospel, therefore validating his Calling.

and I do realize that as people mocked Paul, people will mock me, goes with the territory, but that doesnt take away from the gospel Message
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

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#418262
Jan 26, 2013
 

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atemcowboy wrote:
Matthew 4:1-11. Three times Jesus was tempted by the Devil and each time Jesus replied exactly the same three dangerous words that defeated the Devil: "IT IS WRITTEN" Read it for yourself!
AND AT NO TIME DID jESUS STOP AND SAY TO THE devil, LET ME GO BACK AND READ WHAT THE RCC SAYS ABOUT THIS[AS CLAY JUST DID] SO I CAN USE SOME ORAL TRADITION AGAINST YOU.
No, he said; it is written;
Jesus relied on oral tradition as well, not just written.
Clay

United States

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#418263
Jan 26, 2013
 

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I never bother Protestants who wish to live by Scripture alone and try to be the best Christian possible. Do I think they are missing out? Yeah. They are looking at the menu without partaking in the meal. But that is their choice.

However, when they step up and claim to be an authority on these Books and tell me I'm not saved and going to hell, I will matter -of -factly tell them their errors. Go in your room; read the Bible and pray.
And remember, those verses you ponder were already infallibly taught once. They were revealed. You will not offer a new revelation on Sacred Scriptures.
Clay

United States

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#418264
Jan 26, 2013
 
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>No, clay, the hypocrisy came from YOU.
I havent ever asked you to believe me in anything, which is why I use the Bible to prove my point. which you didnt when you said you had an opinion, yet you couldnt give it.
If I have an opinion, I dont need to go back to some magazine nor some church doctrine and theology to give it to you. I do realize that I am more astute than many on here when it comes to what the Bible says and what it teaches.and my experiences [validate] my calling, just as Paul gave his experiences, when he first came into a new place to preach the Gospel, therefore validating his Calling.
and I do realize that as people mocked Paul, people will mock me, goes with the territory, but that doesnt take away from the gospel Message
I'm not mocking you. I'm defending my faith.
You consider me not saved. I'm going to hell by my own choosing to stay in the Catholic Church. Right?
Well, I will kindly point out your false assumptions about Catholicism to the best of my ability.
Pad

Rockford, IL

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#418265
Jan 26, 2013
 
Regina continued:I see many things about Roman Catholicism that continues to divide the Body.It is very hard for evangelicals especially to forsake the original commandments by forcing a unity with Roman Catholicism,in regards to the houses of worship and the use of images and so on.Those protestants who seek to be RC may have no problem with certain things,but eventually will have problems with the lack of real fellowship,that creates a greater bond with individual believers.

I do not personally have a problem with the RC Liturgy,and of course I respect it.But to me than that is all there is,because you have to seek out those who have been converted as you say.

We who are not RC receive the truth of the Liturgy through the preaching of the Word,and I will not argue whether or not that is the case in your estimation,although you can comment on that if you want. But truth and the exposition of such in preaching and teaching brings out the Liturgy of what you hear at Mass. Of course I know that Communion is different.

What you think we may lack,is what many fail to see in the very act of being present to HEAR and receive of what is true,noble,of good report,and holy in the Body of Christ.

Spiritual life is strong in our circles,and we know that we must receive first in order to be nurtured to a positive end.IT takes much time to cultivate,and we all as followers of Christ must be first confronted with the awesomeness of the WORD itself,before the Spirit of life can effectively give to us the understanding we need to believe,live and later to die for Him as well.

Serving Christ is part of every aspect of becoming believers.That is the DOERS of the Word,as James teaches,not just hearers.

That uniqueness in Christ that we all have does set apart all who follow Him.We grow in that grace and knowledge of what sets us apart. We are not of this w o r l d,and that has to be seen in how we deal with sin,not how we look.

Unity can only be a spiritual understanding of what connects us to begin with.If we look at our ways of conducting services,or the mass,we will rebel from the notion that we are ONE in Christ.But if we see Him in us,than in fact we are ONE in Christ,and the truth of His Word and Prayer to His Father is fulfilled.

Many may see that we have to be under one title of Christian faith,but if we really open our eyes of understanding,we realize that our UNITY is spiritually motivated by the Spirit in Christ.

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#418266
Jan 26, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
No Preston, its on you guys to prove sola scripture. Protestants added this teaching a few hundred yrs ago. It wasn't taught prior in all of Christianity since 33 AD.
When Jesus said to "live by every word that proceeded from his mouth" this would include things not written down.
sorry but clay, you got things backwards, the early church always taught [sola scripture] and your church disagreed with [sola scripture] in the 16th century and they brought forth their own false thelogy equating oral traditon on a par with the bible.

Part of the reason for this is based on the findings of the Council of Trent that was held in the mid 16th Century. The Catholic Encyclopedia reports:

The Council, as is evident, held that there are Divine traditions not contained in Holy Scripture, revelations made to the Apostles either orally by Jesus Christ or by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost and transmitted by the Apostles to the Church. Holy Scripture is therefore not the only theological source of the Revelation made by God to His Church. Side by side with Scripture there is tradition, side by side with the written revelation there is the oral revelation.
http://www.cogwriter.com/tradition.htm

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#418267
Jan 26, 2013
 

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Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not mocking you. I'm defending my faith.
You consider me not saved. I'm going to hell by my own choosing to stay in the Catholic Church. Right?
Well, I will kindly point out your false assumptions about Catholicism to the best of my ability.
clay, you took part of my quoting a Bible verse to come to this conclusion, and that verse was this.

except ye all repent, you will not see heaven(paraphasing, of course).

and I stand on that verse. unless you, me or anyone else doesnt become a Born again Christian, we are not going to heaven.

Jesus said that, I believe that, and that settles that!

that New Birth is the only deciding factor as to a person going to Heaven, not my opinion nor anothers
Clay

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#418268
Jan 26, 2013
 
atemcowboy wrote:
Matthew 4:1-11. Three times Jesus was tempted by the Devil and each time Jesus replied exactly the same three dangerous words that defeated the Devil: "IT IS WRITTEN" Read it for yourself!
AND AT NO TIME DID jESUS STOP AND SAY TO THE devil, LET ME GO BACK AND READ WHAT THE RCC SAYS ABOUT THIS[AS CLAY JUST DID] SO I CAN USE SOME ORAL TRADITION AGAINST YOU.
No, he said; it is written;
Question:
Since Christ obviously spoke of the Hebrew books when He said "it is written", therefore the OT would be sola scripture?
The Apostle Paul obviously spoke of those same OT books in 2Tim 3:16 when he said 'all scripture is useful....'
1. Was Jesus and Paul, also speaking of 1 & 2 Macabees, Tobit, Sirach, Wisdom, Judith as well as parts of Daniel and Esther that are mysteriously missing from the KJV Bible?
2. But what about the 27 other books of the NT that were included in the Bible later on. Was Jesus and Paul also referring to these?
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

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#418269
Jan 26, 2013
 

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atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>excuse me clay, but let me interject into this convdersation.
your church says that "sola scripture" is invalid, so lets see you and/or them PROVE IT!
Jesus tells us to live by of every Word that Proceeded out of His Mouth.
OK, then why won't you do that, instead of speaking out of the "side of your mouth"!!
JESUS SAID----In Matthew 16:13-21 Jesus formed, initiated and authenticated His (One and ONLY Universal Church) and that Histoically7 "proven" Church was Catholic for over 2000 years. It is the same Church that Jesus' Apostles started after Pentecost in Antioch.(Acts 2) It is the same "Universal-Catholic" Church that is visible, heirarchical and authoritative (which was translated from the Greek word "ecclesia" It is the same Church that has Bishops, elders, priests and deacons (again Acts2)
JESUS ALSO SAID---in John 6:47-59. "For unless you eat my body (which is real food) and drink my blood (which is real drink) you CANNOT --have ETERNAL LIFE
PAUL "confirms the words of Jesus--regarding HIS Church, in 1Timothy 3:15 when he calls the CHURCH (not the bible) the pillar, pinnacle and foundation of the TRUTH!
No one "ever" said that sola scriptura is invalid (not any Catholic on this forum, and particularly not the Catholic Church. You "made this up" which is "nothing new" when it comes to bible only Protestant heresy, hypocricy and just plain "dishonest truth".
What we as Catholic "have said" is that the bible is not the only source of truth, that God chose to transmit His infallible words. The bible teaches that Scripture is the word of God, but it also teaches that the apostolic tradition is Gods word as well--2 Thessalonians 2:15 teaches that we are to obey the Tradition, whether it be by word of mouth or the letter. The Apostolic Traditions are different than the traditions of men, which Jesus Condemned. Paul instructs us to obey Apostolic Tradition and "reject" human traditions that void Gods word. The Apostolic Tradition is the oral teaching of Jesus Christ that He handed on to His Apostles that was given and dictated to them by the Holy Spirit.
For someone who "claims to follow" the bible, word for word and each verse, especially the words of Jesus, this only shows how "bogus, distorted, and heretical" bible only believer "really are" in their anti-catholic condemnation and judgmental "half-truth" Christianity!!
7th Day Catholics Rock

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#418270
Jan 26, 2013
 

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Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
No. The bible is an authority, but it cannot be the ONLY authority because we MUST get it right. And if two people who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit have contradictory 'biblical' positions, we MUST be able to tell who's right. If Clay uses the bible only and you use the bible only, it's a stalemate.
Jesus NEVER intended for us to be left in a stalemate. He founded a Church with authority (keys, bind and loose, etc.).
Those who deny the Authoritive Word of God he is Anti-Christ. The RCC is a great example of denial of the Gods written word.
7th Day Catholics Rock

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Jan 26, 2013
 

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Happy Sabbath !!!!

Since: Jun 10

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#418272
Jan 26, 2013
 
For the love of money!!!!!

Canon City, Colorado (CNN)-- Life begins at conception, according to the Catholic Church, but in a wrongful death suit in Colorado, a Catholic health care company has argued just the opposite.

A fetus is not legally a person until it is born, the hospital's lawyers have claimed in its defense. And now it may be up to the state's Supreme Court to decide.

Lori Stodghill was 28 weeks pregnant when she went to the emergency room of St. Thomas More Hospital in Canon City vomiting and short of breath, according to a court document.
Anthony MN

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#418273
Jan 26, 2013
 

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7th Day Catholics Rock wrote:
<quoted text>Those who deny the Authoritive Word of God he is Anti-Christ. The RCC is a great example of denial of the Gods written word.
The Catholic Church has never denied the authority of scripture or God's written word.

We simply deny that every protestant (and SDA cultist) who declares themselves guided by the Holy Spirit is therefore a paper pope and has the authority to use their own personal judgement on the meaning of scripture.

Happy Sabbath!

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