Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

[Dan]

New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:

<quoted text>
You do know the difference between stating a fact, versus stating a belief, right?
Do you have proof for your claim?
I didn't think so either.
Please stop misleading others with unfounded claims.

The "heaven" part,

I get it.

I'm operating on the assumption that no one on the board has been to haaven and come back to report.

I'll be clear henceforth.

[Full of Love]

Oxbow wrote:

<quoted text>
240 184
The first parallel verse to 1Ti 3:16 is: And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And is followed by: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Scripture that clearly shows Christ and God are not one and the same......Scripture erroneously interpreted that supposedly shows God and Christ as the same, makes the Bible infallible...which it is not.
What else is there to say?????

Nehemiah 9:6
Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee

Colossians 1:17
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Colossians 1:17
And he is before >>>all things,
and by him >>>all things consist.

[Dan]

New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:

<quoted text>
No you probably don't, but it doesn't stop you from thinking that those other religions won't get there for some odd reason.
There are other paths to salvation, whether you think there isn't or not.

I never said that non-Catholis can't get to heaven.

Ever.

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

Dan wrote:
Anyone can become a saint.
St. Paul was a non-believer at one time, and he was canonized.
St. Peter denied Christ thrice and was canonized.
All things are possible through Christ, are they not?

LTM wrote:

<quoted text>
Paul and Peter were saints long before they died,a person doesn't have to die to become a saint, all they need is to be born again.
the catholic church has no business declaring who is; or who isn't a saint Dan.
Neither does any other denomination; that is the job of the Holy Spirit.

You are both incorrect. The canonization of a person to sainthood is a man's process, not of the HS or another entity.

"St. Peter was not canonized. He was proclaimed a saint by early Christians because of his martyrdom. The canonization process did not come into existence until the 12th century. In the primitive Church, martyrs were immediately recognized as witnessing to the perfection of Christian life on earth, having shown the ultimate proof of their love for Christ by the offering of their lives. By the sacrifice of their lives for Christ, they attained Heaven in eternal glory and were indissolubly united to the Lord, the Head of the Mystical Body."

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_was_St._Peter_...

"The canonization process did not come into existence until the 12th century."

+ all pre-12th Century "saints" were decided upon by men and not "God".

+ this is a clear indication that any designation of "Saint" after the 12th C. is of man's doing, and not of "God".

[Full of Love]

Oxbow wrote:

<quoted text>
240 184
The first parallel verse to 1Ti 3:16 is: And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And is followed by: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Scripture that clearly shows Christ and God are not one and the same......Scripture erroneously interpreted that supposedly shows God and Christ as the same, makes the Bible infallible...which it is not.
What else is there to say?????

Hebrews 1:8-10
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful,
Counsellor,
>>>>The mighty God,
>>>>The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace

[Dan]

Full of Love wrote:

<quoted text>
Nehemiah 9:6
Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee
Colossians 1:17
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Colossians 1:17
And he is before >>>all things,
and by him >>>all things consist.

Here's a prime example of what we Catholics have been saying for what,a couple years now, on this thread.

Oxbow has read the Bible, interprets it himself and comes up with a post where he concludes triumphantly that God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate beings. Two Gods, in effect.

You, FOL, now are frantically trying to disabuse him of his notions by throwing your own interpretation of the Bible at him.

A Mexican standoff with no winner in sight.

Sola scriptura and private interpretation in practice. Utter chaos.

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

Chuck wrote:

<quoted text>
That's your problem
You listen to sinful men to teach you. I'm taught by God's Word.

DOH!!

"You listen to sinful men to teach you. I'm taught by God's Word."
- which was written by men.
- and then chosen by men of which texts to use.

You are clueless and dishonest with yourself.

[Dan]

New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:

Dan wrote:
Anyone can become a saint.
St. Paul was a non-believer at one time, and he was canonized.
St. Peter denied Christ thrice and was canonized.
All things are possible through Christ, are they not?
<quoted text>
You are both incorrect. The canonization of a person to sainthood is a man's process, not of the HS or another entity.
"St. Peter was not canonized. He was proclaimed a saint by early Christians because of his martyrdom. The canonization process did not come into existence until the 12th century. In the primitive Church, martyrs were immediately recognized as witnessing to the perfection of Christian life on earth, having shown the ultimate proof of their love for Christ by the offering of their lives. By the sacrifice of their lives for Christ, they attained Heaven in eternal glory and were indissolubly united to the Lord, the Head of the Mystical Body."
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_was_St._Peter_...
"The canonization process did not come into existence until the 12th century."
+ all pre-12th Century "saints" were decided upon by men and not "God".
+ this is a clear indication that any designation of "Saint" after the 12th C. is of man's doing, and not of "God".

Recall that my response to chuck here followed up a post whereupon he had questioned Pope John Paul II's ability to become a saint in the Catholic Church.

We were speaking of canonization.

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

LTM wrote:

<quoted text>
"born again" literally means "born from above." —a spiritual transformation. New birth, being born again, is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the person who believes (2 Corinthians 5:17; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-4, 18). John 1:12,13 indicates that "born again" also carries the idea "to become children of God" through trust in the name of Jesus Christ.
Before that we are spiritual dead, when we are born again, we pass from death into life, in a sense we go from the devils realm and enter in to Gods heavenly realm.

"Earth is the "Devil's realm"."

Why do you live in fear?

Have you ever seen this entity?

Is he in your neighborhood today?

Why doesn't the news media and social networks have information on this entity.

A: because this entity only exists in someone who is in fear.

Live in love, and you will never see any "bad guys".

[Full of Love]

Oxbow wrote:

<quoted text>
240 184
The first parallel verse to 1Ti 3:16 is: And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And is followed by: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Scripture that clearly shows Christ and God are not one and the same......Scripture erroneously interpreted that supposedly shows God and Christ as the same, makes the Bible infallible...which it is not.
What else is there to say?????

Jude 1:24-25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

>>>>To the only wise God >>>our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him,
>>>My Lord and >>>my God.

Can you not see it Oxbow?

I sure can.

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>
Name one "self-righteous" work he's accused of.

Claiming he cured someone of Parkinsons, which allowed him to be part of the beatification process.

Unless, he surgically removed the person's brain cells, and revamped them, then placed them back into the person's head.

http://rense.com/general8/park.htm

I doubt JP2 had any medical training at all, let alone brain surgery.

To claim such a feat, is bullshite.

[Full of Love]

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>
Here's a prime example of what we Catholics have been saying for what,a couple years now, on this thread.
Oxbow has read the Bible, interprets it himself and comes up with a post where he concludes triumphantly that God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate beings. Two Gods, in effect.
You, FOL, now are frantically trying to disabuse him of his notions by throwing your own interpretation of the Bible at him.
A Mexican standoff with no winner in sight.
Sola scriptura and private interpretation in practice. Utter chaos.

What I am trying to do out of love is show him that they are the same.

I care about Oxbow and everyone else.

Instead of saying what you just said,why not agree with me on the subject of the trinity?

You do believe they are the same right?

If so,then don't you think he needs to be shown proof in the scriptures?

The scriptures that I have posted are what the RCC uses to prove they are one.

I can read and see proof in God's Holy Word.

[Clay]

guest wrote:

<quoted text>
-
oh, I almost forgot ... FYI - there is no possible way Constantine could have waged war against Muslims, Clay, and your statement shows me you still have not read what I wrote.
-
Islam was not a religion until 300 years AFTER Constantine's death - can you understand that? can you understand what I am trying to get through to you?
-
For 300 years AFTER Constantine waged war in the Name of God - FOR the Roman Catholic Church - Muslims did not exist. There were, however, people native to the area that followers of Constantine continued to war with and persecute. They got tired of it. Their response was to fight back and Muhammad created Islam to *unite* the native people together....
...much like Constantine did when he started Wars for God to *unite* everyone under one religion and one government.
-
.... and we have been dealing with the sheer horror of that since!

That was my point silly. You said Muslims learned from Constantine how to wage war.

Now you're trying to make it seem like i am the one who lacks historical knowledge?

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

Truth wrote:

<quoted text>
The Lordship of Jesus Christ is built on this foundational truth: Jesus is God in which Christians BELIEVE.

....and yet Jesus never called himself such.

Why do you mislead others?

[Full of Love]

Oxbow wrote:

<quoted text>
240 184
The first parallel verse to 1Ti 3:16 is: And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And is followed by: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Scripture that clearly shows Christ and God are not one and the same......Scripture erroneously interpreted that supposedly shows God and Christ as the same, makes the Bible infallible...which it is not.
What else is there to say?????

Read this dear Oxbow;

1 Corinthians 12:3-6
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord,>>> but by the Holy Ghost.

Now there are diversities of gifts,
>>>but the same Spirit.

And there are differences of administrations,
>>>but the same Lord.

And there are diversities of operations,
>>> but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>
Done a few minutes ago for another poster.
The Church makes the decisions via the Magisterium, etc. No, they do not take a popular vote. What's the "conundrum"? A popular vote on doctrine assures an intrinsically "better" outcome?

Keep asking the questions you don't understand Dan.

Better yet - go research those questions.

Magisterium - originates with men

"Catholic theology divides the functions of the teaching office of the Church into two categories: the infallible sacred magisterium and the fallible ordinary magisterium. The infallible sacred magisterium includes the extraordinary declarations of the pope speaking ex cathedra and of ecumenical councils (traditionally expressed in conciliar creeds, canons, and decrees), as well as of the ordinary and universal magisterium. Despite its name, the "ordinary and universal magisterium" falls under the infallible sacred magisterium, and in fact is the usual manifestation of the infallibility of the Church, the decrees of popes and councils being "extraordinary". "

Dan, why do you think believe men over Jesus?

*lifts up a flaming hoop*

I betcha you can jump through this too, if you believe you can.

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>
Done a few minutes ago for another poster.
The Church makes the decisions via the Magisterium, etc. No, they do not take a popular vote. What's the "conundrum"? A popular vote on doctrine assures an intrinsically "better" outcome?

BTW - that isn't what I asked.

I asked you to provide an infallible teaching.

But again, you chose to divert.

You are good at that.

Runaway.

You and Oxbow have more in common than what you realize.

[Robert F]

New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:

<quoted text>
I disagree.
The number is not specific.
Please list the "at least three books" you think exist.
Please be specific.
Thanks!

NASL

REV 20:14

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Since there were "books" and "another book"...., that means there were at least 3 books.....It could have been more....

One of the books was called the book of life. The others, I wouldn't speculate on....

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>
Better question-
Why do you think that I'm subject to your interpretation of scripture?
Are you chuck?

Diversion. But you seem to do this with every poster.

Why?

You aren't subject to anyone, Dan. Those just shows you are using and itilizing your "Self" - something your supposed belief doesn't accept.

Welcome to my world "heretic".

Why don't you beleive Jesus?

Why do you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Jesus?

Why do you only accept less than six of the original 13 Apostles?

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, it is a process of recognition.
Should they abandon it?

Yes, because the title is only applicable here in this plane of existence.