Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

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Free MInd

United States

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#416302
Jan 17, 2013
 

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Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
First Annulment is not divorce as the site states and I clearly said, but the accusation is insisted that the church is selling divorces not annulments for $3,000 but it would have been many more thousands if he had not known someone amongst other allegations.
The site you posted for annulment a 6 month to 1 year proceeding with a free advocate is an independent person who helps with the proceedings of an annulment. Furthermore the site says IF THE Person is unable to pay for the proceeding the fee is reduced or eliminated. However the discussion is not about annulment but divorce so no need to run down your rabbit holes as that was gone over adnauseum.
Again take your focus factor and prove the teaching that the church today is selling indulgences and encouraging divorce for profit without deflecting. Thanks!
From the site you posted and unless you are talking about divorce this is another deflection so get over it.
It takes 6 months to 1 year to complete the annulment process.
An advocate is assigned to represent you free of charge by the Tribunal. You are not required to hire a Cannon Lawyer or anyone else to handle the annulment process for you.
You do not attend the hearing or appear in court.
You will not be 'cross-examined' or even see your ex-spouse.
The cost of an annulment varies depending on the filing party's income and ability to pay. Most Archdiocese have plans for payment of the fees in monthly installments.
For example, the following total costs are being reported:
NY, the cost ranged from $25 to a maximum of $225,
Madison, WI the cost averaged $190,
Chicago the a fee of $250 is requested, but waived in part or in whole if the filing party is unable to pay
Lafayette LA,$225
Lay people are also paid and there are costs for acquiring information.
Again however the accusation is not annulment but divorce. So provide proof of divorce not annullment deflection. Thanks!
1... The site in question talks about BOTH annulment and divorce and explains the difference.

2... The site makes money on the annulment process.

There is no way in Hell that the RCC "carefully investigates" 60,000 annulments per year in the USA.

It's all semantics, because if the RCC didn't play the easy annulment game, it would lose even more members.

In the real world, most people know Catholics who have paid for a "$250 annulment." For some reason, the ANNULMENTS of which I am aware cost much, much more.

You play the RCC semantics game. Others live in the real world. There is an obvious disconnect.

Kind of like the RCC uses diplomatic immunity for morally defensable reasons. LMAO.
preston

Waverly, OH

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#416303
Jan 17, 2013
 

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ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
That's only if you have connections, otherwise it's $40K. True story. I have friends in other countries. Ooops, they just moved. Hey, what do you know, it only costs $35K in their new country, and I hear they throw in an extra Hallelujah and canned vienna sausages at the basement reception afterward. This getting better and better. Stay tuned!
when you got to pay to be a minister, it is time to get out.lol

when you got sell things just to build a church, that church is built on sand, not the rock that is jesus.

Albert of Brandenburg (Hohenzollern) Germany (1490 -1545) became bishop of Magdeburg in 1513 and Archbishop of Mainz in 1514. In doing so, Albert unknowingly laid the groundwork for the Reformation. Albert at the time was only 24 years of age, way below the prescribed age for a bishop. A papal dispensation was required, along with a large payment, to acquire the high ecclesiastical offices.(This practice of selling a church office is called simony, and originates from Acts 8:18-24.){{But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity}}}
Needing 24,000 ducats to pay Pope Leo X in exchange for the title of Archbishop of Mainz, Albert borrowed the money from a south German banking house (The Fuggers), and then set about to pay back the loan. To raise the necessary funds, Archbishop Albert promoted the sale of indulgences for the rebuilding of St. Peter's in Rome. Half the collected funds went to Rome for the building of St. Peter's and half went into Albert's pocket. Johann Tetzel, a Dominican monk employed by Albert, sold these indulgences in Germany, prompting Martin Luther to write his disputation in 95 thesis which he posted to the door of Wittenberg Castle Church (a copy of which he also sent to Archbishop Albert), on the 31st of October 1517, thus sparking the Reformation.

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/instruc.htm
MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

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#416304
Jan 17, 2013
 

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Free MInd wrote:
<quoted text>
Many of those Catholics were killed by Allied troops, thankfully.
And remember why WW2 supposedly occurred. Read the Second Secret of Fatima.
Mary had most of them killed, if you believe the RCC.
I don't. Mary would never utter the words the RCC claims.
Sounds like Clay gets off on people being killed, and he wants to go out in a blaze of glory himself.

MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

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#416305
Jan 17, 2013
 
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
Back in '78 my annulment cost me $350. Not bad. They never told me what it was based on. I don't care, I got it.
NOW one reason for annulment is whether or not a person was psychologically "mature enough" at the time of the marriage. That is ridiculous, as I doubt anybody is ever fully psychologically mature.
I never did believe in the annulment process as I see it as a loophole, nothing more. I wasn't even going to apply for it, but I was an active Catholic at the time and the guilt and fear did me in. Powerful control mechanisms.
The really disgusting part is that the priest who got it for me turned out to be gay and having an affair with another man. How could he tell me getting an annulment was extremely important when he was doing something totally against what he preached? At least this affair was with an adult male and not an underaged kid. He's listed on, I forget what they call it, and it says he never came forward. He has since passed on. I really hope God forgave him. I'm not against gays at all, everybody knows that, but priests such as he really come down hard on them. This guy was one hell of a hypocrite.
Sherlayne says...... I was an active Catholic at the time and the guilt and fear did me in. Powerful control mechanisms.

The really disgusting part is that the priest who got it for me turned out to be gay and having an affair with another man. How could he tell me getting an annulment was extremely important when he was doing something totally against what he preached? At least this affair was with an adult male and not an underaged kid. He's listed on, I forget what they call it, and it says he never came forward. He has since passed on. I really hope God forgave him. I'm not against gays at all, everybody knows that, but priests such as he really come down hard on them. This guy was one hell of a hypocrite.

Michael says......Fear/Guilt is how they control everyone in the church. If catholics don't mind, then so be it.

..Catholic priest Father Andrew Greeley a socioligist too, claims there is a "HOMOSEXUAL UNDERGROUND" within the catholic clergy in america. They call it the LAVENDER MAFIA.

check out Father what Father Greeley states BELOW...

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/...

...Catholic priest Father Donald Cozzens claims that homosexual clergy are in much greater numbers than the general population, yet the church often speaks out against the grave sin of homosexual acts.

Do as we say not as we DO!!



MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

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#416306
Jan 17, 2013
 

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Free MInd wrote:
<quoted text>
Finally, Hojo gets it right. Thank you Hojo.
Now I will answer.
You claim the RCC is God's only TRUE church, uniquely guided to "perfection" in its teachings on faith and morals.
OK so far?
Now why would Jesus or any self-respecting God allow His ONLY -- ONE TRUE Church -- to become embroiled in the largest child sex-abuse COVER-UP in world history.
Why would Jesus allow His supposed "ONE-TRUE GUIDED" church to use diplomatic immunity as if Satan were guiding this church?
You claim Jesus guides all of this. I claim you are a fool to believe Jesus had a hand in any of this.
So Hojo, which is it?
Does Jesus approve, because Jesus uniquely guides this church?
Or does Jesus NOT approve, because Jesus does not guide any of this?
Remember -- no single man invokes diplomatic immunity. It is only invoked by THE CHURCH.
You sir have nowhere to run.
What would Jesus think about this?

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/...

This story was from 10 years ago but fits exactly as things have unfolded the past few years.

Catholics need to wake up and know whats really going on in their church.
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

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#416307
Jan 17, 2013
 

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Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
You also might be interested in the fact that the third Jewish Temple- as described in Ezekiel chapter 40 and 42 - will have graven images throughout.
What do you think of that LTM? Are the Jews Pagan too for obeying what God commanded?
I'm not trying to be a smart alic. We deserve an honest explanation.
I will have to check that out Clay, thanks for the scriptures.
Yes you do deserve an honest explaination.
Clay

Chicago, IL

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#416308
Jan 17, 2013
 

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Free MInd wrote:
<quoted text>
Many of those Catholics were killed by Allied troops, thankfully.
And remember why WW2 supposedly occurred. Read the Second Secret of Fatima.
Mary had most of them killed, if you believe the RCC.
I don't. Mary would never utter the words the RCC claims.
Free,

Words can't describe how big of an idiot you are.
I'm enjoying skipping over you and mikes post. You guys have lost all credibility man.
Of course, I happened to read your last post, so forgive me.
but trust me free of brain cells, I heard the first 2,500 times that you mentioned Mary and Fatima. You really don't need to repeat it every day....as if you're saying something fresh!
We heard it. We get it.
I explained how Catholics view Marys role. You decided to tell us what we believe her role is. Fine, who cares? You're nothing but a bigot. You and Mike will fade away one day and the Church will still be standing. There was Free Minds in every decade since Christ, like you, they failed to bring down the Church.
So cheer up, although you lost, we will forgive the daily slander from you. ;-)
Free MInd

United States

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#416309
Jan 17, 2013
 

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MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like Clay gets off on people being killed, and he wants to go out in a blaze of glory himself.
Agreed.

In that respect, Clay reminds us of what all crazed religious warriors were chanting as they slaughtered whole cities.

The Bible tells us- God loves his Holy Wars. Somehow, Jesus' one true church is not immune.

Catholics and Jews and Muslims, no one should never forget the injustices of God's enemies. Be it Catholic, Jew, Muslim, we are the REAL VICTIMS OF EVIL.

Thank you Clay.
MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

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#416310
Jan 17, 2013
 

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hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
FREE MIND.... I NEVER SAID that I approve of ANY sin--- IN or OUT of the Church...... You have become an "expert" at "making things up and distorting the truth" which is typical of most bible only Protestants..... You, like other, anti-Catholic (condemning and judgemental bible only "buffoons" will "twist, distort, misrepresent, exaggerate and SAY or DO ANTHING" (in order to keep your vengeance, deception, hate and hostility --"heated up" against the TRUTH of the TRUE FACTS, regarding Jesus Christ and His One True Apostolic Catholic Church......Spreading your Protestant (anti-catholic)(propaganda)ven om is about all that your "bible only (half-truth, half-heresy) Christian beliefs" are based upon.....You and others have proven, over and over and over again...that.NONE OF YOU Protestants on this forum, can exist--without attacking (OUR CATHOLIC FAITH, OUR CATHOLIC CHURCH (established by Jesus HIMSELF and the historical and biblical PROVEN TRUTH OF Our Lord Jesus Christs One True Apostolic Catholic Church(the Bride of Christ)
HOJO says......I NEVER SAID that I approve of ANY sin--- IN or OUT of the Church...... You have become an "expert" at "making things up and distorting the truth" which is typical of most bible only Protestants.

Michael says.....Its time you learned about the SINFUL UNDERGROUND Network of your own church leaders.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/...

Catholic bishops battle over "lavender Mafia"

http://culturecampaign.blogspot.ca/2010/11/us...

Read what this priest from Columbia says about the Lavender Mafia.

http://www.examiner.com/article/taking-on-the...

Isn't it time you stopped allowing yourself to be made a fool?

GOOGLE.....priests bishops lavender mafia......

LTM

Sudbury, Canada

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#416311
Jan 17, 2013
 

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preston wrote:
<quoted text>he is probably disagreeing with this statement of yours.
Once a person soul leaves the body they are either in heaven with the Lord or they are in Hell, and will remind there for all eternity.
I certainly agree with the first part of this statement. when my grandfather died and soon came back to life, he had been in the Presence of what he called the "greats in heaven". andd I certainly would neve disagree with him words and what he saw, and in 1982, as I asked God when i was going to do the job that He told me about, the Lord answered.
as far as hell is concerned, the Bible says that hell and the grave gave up the dead that are in them and they are cast into the lake of fire.
Yes it does say that my mistake.
Do you believe the the story of Lazarus and the rich man was a true or just a story.
Jesus told to show how things are going to be.
Because it is clear that Lazarus was in Heaven and the rich man was in hell.
Free MInd

United States

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#416312
Jan 17, 2013
 

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MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
What would Jesus think about this?
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/...
This story was from 10 years ago but fits exactly as things have unfolded the past few years.
Catholics need to wake up and know whats really going on in their church.
Shocker :o) Fundamentalist Religion is a means of sexual self-denial.

From your link (thank you);

"Like the gay underground in the British Foreign Office of the past where for scores of years the road to advancement was open only to homosexuals, the Lavender Mafia has been the gatekeeper determining who will be admitted to seminaries and ultimately to the Roman Catholic priesthood. In Goodbye! Good Men: How Catholic Seminaries Turned Away Two Generations of Vocations From the Priesthood," author Michael S. Rose quotes a former Mundelein seminarian, Joseph Kellenyi, as saying: "The issue was never one of my suitability for ordination. Rather it was that the gay clique had been given veto power over who got ordained."

You saw it, I saw it, 99% of movie and comedy club audiences saw it.

But no Catholic here did?

Ahhhh, the "perfect only-true" church thing. I get it.
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

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#416313
Jan 17, 2013
 
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
Back in '78 my annulment cost me $350. Not bad. They never told me what it was based on. I don't care, I got it.
NOW one reason for annulment is whether or not a person was psychologically "mature enough" at the time of the marriage. That is ridiculous, as I doubt anybody is ever fully psychologically mature.
I never did believe in the annulment process as I see it as a loophole, nothing more. I wasn't even going to apply for it, but I was an active Catholic at the time and the guilt and fear did me in. Powerful control mechanisms.
The really disgusting part is that the priest who got it for me turned out to be gay and having an affair with another man. How could he tell me getting an annulment was extremely important when he was doing something totally against what he preached? At least this affair was with an adult male and not an underaged kid. He's listed on, I forget what they call it, and it says he never came forward. He has since passed on. I really hope God forgave him. I'm not against gays at all, everybody knows that, but priests such as he really come down hard on them. This guy was one hell of a hypocrite.
Hi Sharlayne, It cost me $750.00 for a divorce but it was to a lawyer. Worth every penny.
But I was not allowed to remarry in a church of my choosing
preston

Waverly, OH

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#416314
Jan 17, 2013
 

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MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
HOJO says......I NEVER SAID that I approve of ANY sin--- IN or OUT of the Church...... You have become an "expert" at "making things up and distorting the truth" which is typical of most bible only Protestants.
Michael says.....Its time you learned about the SINFUL UNDERGROUND Network of your own church leaders.
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/...
Catholic bishops battle over "lavender Mafia"
http://culturecampaign.blogspot.ca/2010/11/us...
Read what this priest from Columbia says about the Lavender Mafia.
http://www.examiner.com/article/taking-on-the...
Isn't it time you stopped allowing yourself to be made a fool?
GOOGLE.....priests bishops lavender mafia......
I guess the next foolish thing that you will try and lay on us is that there is an Amish Mafia.

Since: Dec 06

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#416315
Jan 17, 2013
 
Free MInd wrote:
<quoted text>
Robert writes that -- "I present what appears to be a moral dilemma."
Not "appears to be" Robert good friend, it is a moral dilemma -- because what the RCC is doing with its power of diplomatic immunity is IMMORAL, plain and simple.
I have faith in a higher power, but nothing that forces me to make feeble excuses for such IMMORALITY.
I don't claim to have a source for the all the answers, as you claim. Making absurd claims of "perfection" paints your faith into a corner. So you are forced to defend the indefensible.
So of course you say I have a war in my mind that makes me weak.
If standing up for justice for sexually abused orphans -- against one of the richest and most powerful organizations on earth -- makes my mind weak, then you are confused Robert good friend.
Free Mind

You are confused. When seeking justice, one must be prudent and temperate.

By your logic. Everyone involved in a religion must pay for the crimes of a few. In a sense this is true. But then also, because there are crimes in the U.S., we must all be imprisoned and pay fines for every criminal. And the U.S. government must be responsible for its citizens, therefore the U.S. government must be dismantled.

What I am saying is that your justice is not prudent and temperate. It is driven by rage.

In the nature of government, it is rather inherent for its existence to protect the people it governs. The same is true for religion. Within each system, both are to work within moral laws for justice,and do so with prudence and temperance with courage.
Free MInd

United States

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#416316
Jan 17, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Free,
Words can't describe how big of an idiot you are.
I'm enjoying skipping over you and mikes post. You guys have lost all credibility man.
Of course, I happened to read your last post, so forgive me.
but trust me free of brain cells, I heard the first 2,500 times that you mentioned Mary and Fatima. You really don't need to repeat it every day....as if you're saying something fresh!
We heard it. We get it.
I explained how Catholics view Marys role. You decided to tell us what we believe her role is. Fine, who cares? You're nothing but a bigot. You and Mike will fade away one day and the Church will still be standing. There was Free Minds in every decade since Christ, like you, they failed to bring down the Church.
So cheer up, although you lost, we will forgive the daily slander from you. ;-)
Clay, you play the victim so well.

But posting exact RCC words is not slander. The ONLY ONE who is slandered is Mary -- by you.

1... You "explain how Catholics view Mary's role."

2... I post Mary's EXACT Words as reported by the RCC in 1941.

Why do FACTS bother you. Why is my posting Mary's exact words so horrible?

You are bothered because all reason tells you the RCC made up those absurd "3 Secrets." You hide through your victim-hood.

Forget what Clay "explains." Here again are Mary's exact Words, or a BIG ROMAN CATHOLIC LIE.

"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pope Pius XI. "

Yes... BUSTED
MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

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#416317
Jan 17, 2013
 
Free MInd wrote:
<quoted text>
Shocker :o) Fundamentalist Religion is a means of sexual self-denial.
From your link (thank you);
"Like the gay underground in the British Foreign Office of the past where for scores of years the road to advancement was open only to homosexuals, the Lavender Mafia has been the gatekeeper determining who will be admitted to seminaries and ultimately to the Roman Catholic priesthood. In Goodbye! Good Men: How Catholic Seminaries Turned Away Two Generations of Vocations From the Priesthood," author Michael S. Rose quotes a former Mundelein seminarian, Joseph Kellenyi, as saying: "The issue was never one of my suitability for ordination. Rather it was that the gay clique had been given veto power over who got ordained."
You saw it, I saw it, 99% of movie and comedy club audiences saw it.
But no Catholic here did?
Ahhhh, the "perfect only-true" church thing. I get it.
I do feel sorry for catholics. They know their faith and practice their belief, but have no idea whats going on in the "ENGINE ROOM" of mother church that many catholic seminaries across america often only accepted gay men to the seminary, and cliques were formed to keep straight men out.

The story I posted, includes dialogue from 6 roman catholic priests who tell their stories.

The most important entity in the church is TRUST. Lance Armstrong lost his trust to america, but is not even close to being compared to the mistrust of whats been going on behind the scenes in catholic seminaries across the nation and around the world.

Until catholics stand up and demand answers, mistrust will only grow more prevalent. Very sad indeed.
preston

Waverly, OH

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#416318
Jan 17, 2013
 

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LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes it does say that my mistake.
Do you believe the the story of Lazarus and the rich man was a true or just a story.
Jesus told to show how things are going to be.
Because it is clear that Lazarus was in Heaven and the rich man was in hell.
I beleive that what Jesus said was completly true. when He used the name of Lazarus, He made the story more convincing. imo.

many people will use Scripture verses to prove or try to prove the body and soul/spirit just sleeps unti the last resurrection, but I dont believe that at all.I have seen people that have cried out by a glimpse of Hell and the flames, while they were on their death bed. and vice versa of people that have experienced Heaven or a place where they felt great peace.

I think that 1 thing is clear. a person should live like there is a hell, and prepare themselves to avoid that place, by accepting Jesus as their Savior
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

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#416319
Jan 17, 2013
 
Free MInd wrote:
<quoted text>
1... The site in question talks about BOTH annulment and divorce and explains the difference.
2... The site makes money on the annulment process.
There is no way in Hell that the RCC "carefully investigates" 60,000 annulments per year in the USA.
It's all semantics, because if the RCC didn't play the easy annulment game, it would lose even more members.
In the real world, most people know Catholics who have paid for a "$250 annulment." For some reason, the ANNULMENTS of which I am aware cost much, much more.
You play the RCC semantics game. Others live in the real world. There is an obvious disconnect.
Kind of like the RCC uses diplomatic immunity for morally defensable reasons. LMAO.
.
The site you talk about (the one which mentions divorce and annulment both) is a mix of fact and error, and if it's sponsored by anyone officially connected with the Church, I'll eat my shoe.
.
The first link looks like a fellow who is offering to do the grunt work that would normally be done by a priest or deaco. Since the number of priest-less parishes is growing, we will probably have to have more laity helping in case prep in the future. How they would be paid for their work is anyone's guess. Could be via the tribunal, or they could be told to charge for their work, with a set fee from the bishop's office.
.
I *wish* I had someone to do this stuff ... I *hate* doing it. The endless questions, and gathering of documents, and the evasiveness of people when you try to do the interview. Ugh.
.
For the Catholics on the board, there is an excellent discussion of annulments and about the critics of the "high numbers" at this site:

http://www.canonlaw.info/a_annulments.htm

It does a pretty good job of explaining some of the criticisms, such as how DOF cases amount to nearly a third of cases, and should be granted at a rate of 100%, providing the Advocate has done his job properly, and why Ligamen cases should ALSO be granted at a rate of 100%.

I found it very interesting reading.(For one, I would like to know why defect-of-form cases were not being granted in high numbers a LOOOOONG time ago.)

Rob

Since: Dec 06

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#416320
Jan 17, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct - why fear anything?
I'll tell ya what.....when I die, I will stand tall for my life's work, and give the proper respect to whom I encounter as I do with all strangers I come in contact - even you.
I will speak as well as I can in respect of the moment and place.
All the while, I'll watch you, kneel before Jesus and me standing there in front of you. I'll nudge him, "Hey I know that guy, he's okay!" Then I'll nudge you and say, "Hey dude, get up and stand, there is no need for that here."
And then I'll give Jesus some high fives, and take him over to John and Jimi's cloud and we'll check out how they have been doing.
;o)
You are more than welcome to tag along if you so choose.
NASL

No thanks. I tore up my ticket on the Titanic. I didn't know John and Jimi were playing there. Listening....I thought you were dancing. My mistake.
MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

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#416321
Jan 17, 2013
 
preston wrote:
<quoted text>I guess the next foolish thing that you will try and lay on us is that there is an Amish Mafia.
You have seen the show! At least the Amish Mafia are not about gay men controlling the amish community.

Living in Ohio your just down the road. Have you got a black buggy and a couple horses? GIDDYUPP!

So you Preston are saying, the 6 roman catholic priests who wrote part of the article are liars?

__________

Read below what the bishops conference stated, and catholic theologens in 2010 about the lavender priest mafia in america.

http://culturecampaign.blogspot.ca/2010/11/us...

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