Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.
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Clay

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#415508
Jan 14, 2013
 

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4GVN wrote:
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth..........
.....
The instructions are explicitly clear, and those who love the Lord do NOT seek to find a reason to disregard such clear teaching.
You're purposely mis reading the commandment to make a case against the Catholic Church.

Why did God command the Jews to carve graven images of Angels in that very same book of Exodus?
Pat

Granby, CT

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#415509
Jan 14, 2013
 

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Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul wrote:
".....since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things which are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse."
Please, just one fact, that is all I ask. Just one small fact that shows how your god and an imaginary god differ in some way. Please.
4GVN

Cape Girardeau, MO

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#415510
Jan 14, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
On second thought, all US currency incorporates graven images; paper money employs engraved images of US presidents and other things used to print the notes.
So again, let us know how you and your fellows work around this issue.
Thanks
The commands of God are to those who follow the teachings of God(obviously). The commands were not given to secular government leaders. They were to the 'church'.
It would seem quite clear that the prohibition was on 'religious' icons used by those who adhere to the teachings of God.
Can money be an 'idol'? Yes it can. But it was not created with religious intent.
You are still seeking to find a way NOT to follow God's clear command. WHY? Because that is what you have been taught.
And if there is any doubt, why not error on God's side? Why risk it? Are icons and statues something that the RCC MUST HAVE?
If I am wrong, I am 'safely' wrong. On the other hand if you are wrong you are guilty of mortal sin. It is an easy choice for me. What is your priority?
Pat

Granby, CT

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#415511
Jan 14, 2013
 

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Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul wrote:
".....since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things which are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse."
So Paul too was a lair. Your point?
truth

Perth, Australia

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#415512
Jan 14, 2013
 
we explain satanic spirit too,,,yes they attacking..its shame..no no its not shame for you be very proud about that..why should be..
Jesus Christ words is perfect..he explain perfection..killers of Christians is always full of pride..pride is great sin.

life is preserve..where others can't come..
by
Clay

United States

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#415513
Jan 14, 2013
 
4GVN wrote:
Clay, can you explain to me exactly where is the line between veneration and worship? Do ANY catholics in all of the world EVER cross over that line? Is Mary ever 'worshipped' like God?
The literal Greek translation of the 2nd commandment does not say 'putting images in [lace of Him as deity'. The literal translation is 'Thou shalt have no other gods in My presence.'
Why do you think man's artistic ability in making images or icons somehow 'further glorifies Him.
If someone made a statue of Clay that looked nothing like Clay would you be pleased? Do you KNOW what Jesus looked like? And why do you feel that you need an image to 'hesp' you remember to worship God? Does He posses lso little of your heart and mind that you are always forgetting about Him?
And again you are ignoring the instructions regarding graven images. The scripture clearly says not to make unto thyself 'any graven images'. But why would you care what scripture says? You only care what the RCC says.
But someday you will give an account to God( not the magisterium) explaining why you chose to disregard His very detailed instructions.
How would I know if people worship Mary?

I would find that very very hard to believe that someone like a Catholic, would be so stupid to think Mary was a deity and worship her.
And I find it even more hard to believe that they would create a statue and worship THAT!

You have no argument unless you isolate a verse in the ten commandments and ignore what God said before and after... its you that will need to explain to God someday why you didn't use your brain. Or worse, why you used deliberate deceit to make your case.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#415514
Jan 14, 2013
 

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4GVN wrote:
The Catholic Church long ago began making allowances for the idolatrous use of images by the way they reference the Ten Commandments. In the Catholic catechism and in most official Catholic documents, the first and second commandments are combined and then summarized with “I am the Lord your God. You shall not have other gods beside Me.” Suspiciously absent is what comprises the second commandment in the Protestant numbering of the Ten Commandments:“You shall not make any graven images.”
While it is understandable for “you shall not make any graven images” to be considered an aspect of “you shall not have other gods beside me,” based on the history of idolatry involving graven images throughout biblical and extra-biblical history, it seems unwise to not include “you shall not make any graven images” in every listing of the Ten Commandments. The omission seems especially suspicious in light of the fact that the Roman Catholic Church has long been accused of the idolatrous use of graven images.
There are good reasons for not using images in worship. First of all, the use of physical images to “aid” worship violates the command to worship God “in spirit and in truth”(John 4:23-24). Also, no one knows what God looks like, and John 1:18 is clear concerning this truth:“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” And, because God is Spirit (John 4:24a), it is irreverent to delineate Him as an iconic representation. No one alive knows what Jesus Christ looked like in the flesh, and, since there were no cameras when He walked the earth, the only description of His appearance is found in Isaiah 53:2-3, which says that He had “no stately form or majesty.”
The commandment on graven imagery pertains to idolatry.

Period.

Whoever's the author of this paste-up isn't licensed to add that line to every commandment, regardless of whoever has accused the Catholic Church of idolatry.

Again, as you doubtless use graven images (money and/or a cross) in your daily life, you acknowledge this reality.
truth

Perth, Australia

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#415515
Jan 14, 2013
 
From reverse one peace of your hair..life can start..
its your conciseness where is not conciseness on your way of thinking.
byyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Clay

United States

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#415516
Jan 14, 2013
 

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4GVN wrote:
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth..........
.....
The instructions are explicitly clear, and those who love the Lord do NOT seek to find a reason to disregard such clear teaching.
Please explain why Jewish temples are being unearthed today that have graven images in them?

One, just recently, was revealed to have a statue of a hand - a symbol to the Jews as the hand of God.
It also had graven images of Angels.

Bottom line, God forbids worship of statues - like the golden calf as another deity in place of God.
Hence the reason he'd be jealous.

You don't have your head screwed on right, if you believe God can be jealous of a carving of His Son!

You should be concerned with violating another Commandment about bearing false witness. But that is the only way you evangelicals seem to function.

Since: Dec 06

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#415517
Jan 14, 2013
 

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atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>if you cringe because i told you the truth, that is your problem. you said that mary tok jesus to save him from herod, I said that you are wrong and i PROVED IT
yOU;The beginning of the Church in Acts..., Mary was there.
NOW YOU SAY THAT BUT AT FIRST YOU INFERRED THAT MARY WAS EVE at the beginning of the church. i proved you wrong by saying that the apostles and the 70 were the charter members not Mary, and also to bolster my stand, I pointed out that Mary was outside with her other children while Jesus was already preaching to the other beleivers. so she was not at the beginning of the church, which means that she was not a charter member. I will concede that many people beleive that that chapter is about the church, but that doesnt mean that they are right.
so even if it is the church, mary is in heaven, she couldnt lead anyone into the wilderness. so you are wrong on that point too. and since you dont know me at all, and just because i disagree with you over Scripture doesnt give you a reason to disrespect me just because you have traveled through "red neck" country.
I place Mary exactly where she belongs, she was Born, she accepted jesus as her savior, she died and is in heaven. that is praise of the Highest, to make her more is lying and does disrespect her and her Son.
preston

lol...,so be it.

You write, "I place Mary exactly where she belongs...."

Sounds like you have a God-complex.

I Cor 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

Well who is the last Adam?
Who is the mother of the last Adam?

Think, think, think. Put it together, faith and reason. I know you can do it. Just try....Its not written in the Bible who is the mother of the last Adam....That doesn't mean the last Adam did not have a mother....Come on....

And you still don't refute your chauvinism, especially towards women....At least it is so, by your writings. And it is by them that your thoughts are revealed. You fail to see that your thoughts reveal what you think, and what you think is connected to your heart, and it is out of your heart that comes the words you speak and write....(Very biblical, by the way.)

I don't like writing about the Blessed Mary with you, as it exposes her to your abuse. And so I pray for you instead.

And I don't like writing about scripture with you as your knowledge is excellent, but it is linear. Visions, dreams, prophecy, parables, indeed a great deal of the Bible has these, so discussing them is like a bird that flies, trying to make a rock fly....Yes you are solid in your faith and knowledge, but by your writings, don't take flight without reason, and so are earthbound.

In the end, it all depends upon God's Grace for our salvation, and our acceptance of Jesus as the sacrifice acceptable for expiation of our sins. No one knows the heart but God, so your assumption that I am not saved is like making a stone fly.

Don't believe that you are so special, thinking that God gave you some special mission, and not everyone else.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#415518
Jan 14, 2013
 

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4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>The commands of God are to those who follow the teachings of God(obviously). The commands were not given to secular government leaders. They were to the 'church'.
It would seem quite clear that the prohibition was on 'religious' icons used by those who adhere to the teachings of God.
Can money be an 'idol'? Yes it can. But it was not created with religious intent.
You are still seeking to find a way NOT to follow God's clear command. WHY? Because that is what you have been taught.
And if there is any doubt, why not error on God's side? Why risk it? Are icons and statues something that the RCC MUST HAVE?
If I am wrong, I am 'safely' wrong. On the other hand if you are wrong you are guilty of mortal sin. It is an easy choice for me. What is your priority?
You use graven images. Money is comprised of graven images. It says "God" right on every coin and reserve note.

Why?

You said those who love the Lord are expressly forbidden to do so. You were abundantly clear. You made no distinction.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#415519
Jan 14, 2013
 
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>The commands of God are to those who follow the teachings of God(obviously). The commands were not given to secular government leaders. They were to the 'church'.
It would seem quite clear that the prohibition was on 'religious' icons used by those who adhere to the teachings of God.
Can money be an 'idol'? Yes it can. But it was not created with religious intent.
You are still seeking to find a way NOT to follow God's clear command. WHY? Because that is what you have been taught.
And if there is any doubt, why not error on God's side? Why risk it? Are icons and statues something that the RCC MUST HAVE?
If I am wrong, I am 'safely' wrong. On the other hand if you are wrong you are guilty of mortal sin. It is an easy choice for me. What is your priority?
Statuary isn't required in the RCC, no.
Fun Facts

Midland, MI

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#415520
Jan 14, 2013
 

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4GVN wrote:
Clay, can you explain to me exactly where is the line between veneration and worship? Do ANY catholics in all of the world EVER cross over that line? Is Mary ever 'worshipped' like God?
The literal Greek translation of the 2nd commandment does not say 'putting images in [lace of Him as deity'. The literal translation is 'Thou shalt have no other gods in My presence.'
Why do you think man's artistic ability in making images or icons somehow 'further glorifies Him.
If someone made a statue of Clay that looked nothing like Clay would you be pleased? Do you KNOW what Jesus looked like? And why do you feel that you need an image to 'hesp' you remember to worship God? Does He posses lso little of your heart and mind that you are always forgetting about Him?
And again you are ignoring the instructions regarding graven images. The scripture clearly says not to make unto thyself 'any graven images'. But why would you care what scripture says? You only care what the RCC says.
But someday you will give an account to God( not the magisterium) explaining why you chose to disregard His very detailed instructions.
A Consult explanation may help...
http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/arti...

Questions?
http://avemariaradio.net/catholic-online-radi...
truth

Perth, Australia

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#415521
Jan 14, 2013
 
very funny..you don't have your head..o well i explain to you..you can have stupid head so what?..its mean you not compete to anyone for big pride chair..after all why should be.
Are you for sure Jesus sit in first chair?
Scripture explain perfect..o you scribe Pharisee this and that..where they are ..they are first..klap klap klap to smart people.
ookkkkkkk
now
what a about that
who is last will be first..
is that stupid for you..how can be so stupid be last oj oj oj..

Put one tiny hair in your water then what..its start as new life tiny cell start swim..stupid simple diploma is good..very weak..o you don't need bigger as well not fast history of evolution.

Since: Dec 06

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#415522
Jan 14, 2013
 

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LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Where was Mary before God ?? to be His Mother she would be His creator.
You forgot Abraham, Moses, and King David, are they not part of God's Church.
In Acts the Church was impowered by the Holy Spirit, He said he had to go away but would send a comforter who would teach us all things (Who Is the comforter It is God the Holy Spirit).
Mary has no Power, She is not Queen Of Heaven, She can not hear your Prayers neither other dead people can dead people.
Regina told me once no one knows who will go to heaven till they get there, so if people don't know who is in heaven its a good chance you could be praying to someone who is in Hell.
As satan can hear you pray its a good chance you could be
conjuring up demons like King Saul did.
He got a medium to bring Samuel back from the dead : He losts his life and so did His son Jonathon.
You will bring a curse on yourself and your family.
God said we are not to pray to the dead. weather they are in heaven or hell.
And there is no purgatory, that was made up to lout people pockets.
Catholic's plainly ignore what God says 'THOU SHALL NOT DO".
DO YOU THINK YOU ARE EXEMPT FROM THE WREATH THAT IS TO COME,
AGAINST ALL THOSE WHO THINK THEY CAN ADD AND SUBTRACT FROM GOD'S HOLY SCRIPTURE OR CHANGE THEM TO SUIT YOURSELF.
I WONDER HOW THE CATHOLIC'S ARE GOING TO EXPLAIN ALL THAT, ON JUDGEMENT DAY. WELL I AM NOT TO BOTHER MYSELF WITH THAT IT ISN'T MY BUSINESS. I HAVE TO WORK OUT MY OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.
LTM good friend

Did Jesus take James, Peter, and John up a mountain and discussed with two dead people something?

So your prejudice is that your faith lacks understanding, that the living can be in the presence of the dead, and can know who they are....

And where Jesus is the Church living and dead are in His Presence, and things are discussed and revealed, this is possible for all believers. It is just that some deny by faith and do not understand.
Pat

Granby, CT

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#415523
Jan 14, 2013
 
truth wrote:
its so simple
You are created on his image..do you liked that..i don't know..simple i am not to much care or i am going judge you about that..you have free will what you want from yourself up to you.
Please don't force anyone about love what others like or not.
We are deference in many aspect.
Are you for sure your God presented on your Altar in your temple?
noooooooooooooooooo
Simple is right. God loves stupid.

Only the very ignorant are perfectly satisfied that they know. To the common man the great problems are easy. He has no trouble in accounting for the universe. He can tell you the origin and destiny of man and the why and wherefore of things.
-- Robert Green Ingersoll, "Liberty In Literature" (1890)
Pat

Granby, CT

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#415524
Jan 14, 2013
 

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Christianity has such a contemptible opinion of human nature that it does not believe a man can tell the truth unless frightened by a belief in God. No lower opinion of the human race has ever been expressed.
-- Robert Green Ingersoll
truth

Perth, Australia

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#415525
Jan 14, 2013
 
you are not honest
you asked
where is conciseness within not conciseness..
before you explain about ribs and creation from ribs its my last bone from that i will created woman and give as gift to man..are you for sure man don't love belonging of his rib..then how can be woman is wrong or ribs is wrong..

now i explain to you so tiny simple hair..
hair from what?
cat dog horse or what..

Did angels have hair?
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#415526
Jan 14, 2013
 
Pat wrote:
Christianity has such a contemptible opinion of human nature that it does not believe a man can tell the truth unless frightened by a belief in God. No lower opinion of the human race has ever been expressed.
-- Robert Green Ingersoll
Pat-

You can believe as you wish, but how can you simply dismiss St. Paul as a "liar" while simultaneously exhorting all of us to take Robert Green Ingersoll at face?

A bit contradictory, yes?
disciple

Temecula, CA

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#415527
Jan 14, 2013
 

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Pat wrote:
Christianity has such a contemptible opinion of human nature that it does not believe a man can tell the truth unless frightened by a belief in God. No lower opinion of the human race has ever been expressed.
-- Robert Green Ingersoll
It looks like you found your god.

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