Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 559,250
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Dan

Omaha, NE

#415486 Jan 14, 2013
4GVN wrote:
Clay, can you explain to me exactly where is the line between veneration and worship? Do ANY catholics in all of the world EVER cross over that line? Is Mary ever 'worshipped' like God?
The literal Greek translation of the 2nd commandment does not say 'putting images in [lace of Him as deity'. The literal translation is 'Thou shalt have no other gods in My presence.'
Why do you think man's artistic ability in making images or icons somehow 'further glorifies Him.
If someone made a statue of Clay that looked nothing like Clay would you be pleased? Do you KNOW what Jesus looked like? And why do you feel that you need an image to 'hesp' you remember to worship God? Does He posses lso little of your heart and mind that you are always forgetting about Him?
And again you are ignoring the instructions regarding graven images. The scripture clearly says not to make unto thyself 'any graven images'. But why would you care what scripture says? You only care what the RCC says.
But someday you will give an account to God( not the magisterium) explaining why you chose to disregard His very detailed instructions.
How on Earth would Clay or anyone know if anyone actually worships Mary?

Statuary or artwork is not more "idolatry" than a protestant church or person festooned with a cross.

The Bible doesn't forbid statuary anyway. You say so yourself:

"The literal Greek translation of the 2nd commandment does not say 'putting images in [lace of Him as deity'. The literal translation is 'Thou shalt have no other gods in My presence.'"

Put the tract down and think.
4GVN

Scott City, MO

#415487 Jan 14, 2013
The Catholic Church long ago began making allowances for the idolatrous use of images by the way they reference the Ten Commandments. In the Catholic catechism and in most official Catholic documents, the first and second commandments are combined and then summarized with “I am the Lord your God. You shall not have other gods beside Me.” Suspiciously absent is what comprises the second commandment in the Protestant numbering of the Ten Commandments:“You shall not make any graven images.”

While it is understandable for “you shall not make any graven images” to be considered an aspect of “you shall not have other gods beside me,” based on the history of idolatry involving graven images throughout biblical and extra-biblical history, it seems unwise to not include “you shall not make any graven images” in every listing of the Ten Commandments. The omission seems especially suspicious in light of the fact that the Roman Catholic Church has long been accused of the idolatrous use of graven images.

There are good reasons for not using images in worship. First of all, the use of physical images to “aid” worship violates the command to worship God “in spirit and in truth”(John 4:23-24). Also, no one knows what God looks like, and John 1:18 is clear concerning this truth:“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” And, because God is Spirit (John 4:24a), it is irreverent to delineate Him as an iconic representation. No one alive knows what Jesus Christ looked like in the flesh, and, since there were no cameras when He walked the earth, the only description of His appearance is found in Isaiah 53:2-3, which says that He had “no stately form or majesty.”
4GVN

Scott City, MO

#415488 Jan 14, 2013
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth..........
.....
The instructions are explicitly clear, and those who love the Lord do NOT seek to find a reason to disregard such clear teaching.
Pat

Granby, CT

#415489 Jan 14, 2013
God is a dunce cap worn by dishoenst death deniers.
disciple

Temecula, CA

#415490 Jan 14, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, I think that I know that answer.
guest and the jw may not think so, but i think I know.
I think that I know where the "true church" will be and also where the cc wil be, But I dont think that they are one and the same.imo.so how could I tell him and still be civil about it?
or can a person be civil and truthful at the same time? it does present a problem, but one that God could work out
You are a smart man.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#415491 Jan 14, 2013
Full of Love wrote:
<quoted text>
Robert,just so you know,I am not condemning her.
Just trying get her to understand.
that God has more than one name and that her insisting that we should call our Lord a certain name is not right.
Only God know's her heart.
Full of Love good friend

I can see by your writing, that you are not hostile towards Aviela and her understanding.

It is very difficult, perhaps impossible to change another person's understanding. A friendly discussion will yield a better end...

Since God is outside of Creation, God is before and after all Creation, and beyond infinity in time, the name we use as God is of little importance. Language is going to be long forgotten before Creation ends....

God's Name is beyond our language.(We cannot capture God in our concepts, and hold Him captive in our thoughts by a name we give to God. This is idolatry.) And if a person depends upon their salvation on knowing God's Name, then their salvation is beyond(based in concepts of language) as well, rather than on God....
Dan

Omaha, NE

#415492 Jan 14, 2013
4GVN wrote:
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth..........
.....
The instructions are explicitly clear, and those who love the Lord do NOT seek to find a reason to disregard such clear teaching.
As you insist on pushing the total ban on statuary for those "who love the Lord", please tell the board what you and your fellows use instead of coins for currency. Coins contain the engraved relief images of US presidents and other things, and are thus unworthy of you.

Anxious to hear what work-around solution you've found for this.

Thanks in advance.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#415493 Jan 14, 2013
4GVN wrote:
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth..........
.....
The instructions are explicitly clear, and those who love the Lord do NOT seek to find a reason to disregard such clear teaching.
On second thought, all US currency incorporates graven images; paper money employs engraved images of US presidents and other things used to print the notes.

So again, let us know how you and your fellows work around this issue.

Thanks
MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

#415494 Jan 14, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
The difference is that we (Catholics anyway) do not claim that God can be scientifically proven in a lab- nor has the Church ever claimed God to be anything other than the mysterious, supernatural creator of all things.
Its you guys that turn and and demand us to prove God in a science lab - when that is not even our claim.
When science proves something to be true or false they have to back it up with evidence and facts. I am sure you are aware of this. As you know we could not exist today as we are, without ongoing medical science.

..... What would a God do about that? What would a God do about asteroids that will AGAIN one day crash into our planet destroying everything as we know it, and the cycle will start all over again as it has in the past.

There is no physical evidence that there is a God. That is why it is called a belief, and science is called a work in progress that brings us truths about ourselves that we can all verify with certainty.

Since the beginning of makind people have believed in their own Gods. Thousands of them. Single Gods, double headed gods, triple headed gods/goddesses, 3 persons in one God etc. In 2013 you just happen to be in a time in our history that you believe in the God of your choice, and as time progresses Gods will disappear and other Gods will take their place, as long as people have FEAR. Fear is the main contributor of why there are Gods.

Today science will provide you clean drinking water, food, your computer, tv, automobiles, your heat and your light.

What will your God do for you today?
Pat

Granby, CT

#415495 Jan 14, 2013
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Full of Love good friend
I can see by your writing, that you are not hostile towards Aviela and her understanding.
It is very difficult, perhaps impossible to change another person's understanding. A friendly discussion will yield a better end...
Since God is outside of Creation, God is before and after all Creation, and beyond infinity in time, the name we use as God is of little importance. Language is going to be long forgotten before Creation ends....
God's Name is beyond our language.(We cannot capture God in our concepts, and hold Him captive in our thoughts by a name we give to God. This is idolatry.) And if a person depends upon their salvation on knowing God's Name, then their salvation is beyond(based in concepts of language) as well, rather than on God....
God this, god that... You like all others have no knowledge of any god, whether he exists, what he does, wants, thinks or is. This proves you to be a typical theist, an amoral liar.
MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

#415496 Jan 14, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
As you insist on pushing the total ban on statuary for those "who love the Lord", please tell the board what you and your fellows use instead of coins for currency. Coins contain the engraved relief images of US presidents and other things, and are thus unworthy of you.
Anxious to hear what work-around solution you've found for this.
Thanks in advance.
Dan says..........Coins contain the engraved relief images of US presidents and other things.

Michael says......that is true, and we know when we look at these images they are very close resemblances of the people they depict.

.....statues/pictures of Mary or Jesus are just made up images that have been purposely engrained into your mind so you belief in your mind when you see one of these icons, that you believe you are looking Jesus or Mary.

If I showed you a statue of a man that was short, balding, with a hunchback and said to you Dan, this is Jesus, you would retrieve the image engrained in your mind and shout "this is not Jesus"

You have been brainwashed into believing that certain images, depict the real person. That is wrong, and the coins and dollar bills we have today and those that go back thousands of years, depict actual people and places that actually existed.

The church has conditioned your mind to expect Jesus and Mary to physically appear a certain way, just as we have been conditioned that Santa Claus is ALWAYS BIG, JOLLY with a white beard and red suit,......... no other substitute will do.

Its all in your mind....and the catholic church has planted it there.
truth

Perth, Australia

#415497 Jan 14, 2013
its so simple
You are created on his image..do you liked that..i don't know..simple i am not to much care or i am going judge you about that..you have free will what you want from yourself up to you.
Please don't force anyone about love what others like or not.
We are deference in many aspect.
Are you for sure your God presented on your Altar in your temple?
noooooooooooooooooo
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#415498 Jan 14, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Morality are the rules of human group co-operation. They exist in us because they are a benefit to our survival. Civilization could not occur without these rules of co-operation. They evolved in us through natural selection like any other useful trait.
Can consciousness come from unconsciousness?
marge

Ames, IA

#415499 Jan 14, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
How on Earth would Clay or anyone know if anyone actually worships Mary?
Statuary or artwork is not more "idolatry" than a protestant church or person festooned with a cross.
The Bible doesn't forbid statuary anyway. You say so yourself:
"The literal Greek translation of the 2nd commandment does not say 'putting images in [lace of Him as deity'. The literal translation is 'Thou shalt have no other gods in My presence.'"
Put the tract down and think.
Hey Dan it's been awhile, how are you?

You don't think praying to or bowing to Mary is a act of worship?
truth

Perth, Australia

#415500 Jan 14, 2013
perhaps not micle..
Your science is less then half in entire known universe.

Are you pro-life or pro-death?
deference between weed seed and life of tree..
you can explain deference to your science if you
can't see other side..then become silence.
Are you for sure i am wrong?
We can be crazy as well lazy.
Depend crazy of your sience mama farma ceut deut ceutic..Are you for sure i am wrong?
As well lazy..depend how you look on other side..spiritual life..its can be spiritual life but not holy as every spirit is not holy..no.
any effect about that..yes to be lazy its perfect answer..keep you as prisoner.
I am ok.
be good micle
MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

#415501 Jan 14, 2013
4GVN wrote:
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth..........
.....
The instructions are explicitly clear, and those who love the Lord do NOT seek to find a reason to disregard such clear teaching.

...The bible writings are crystal clear. No graven images! How can catholics dipute these writings, especially! when THEIR OWN CATHOLIC FATHERS WROTE AND RECORDED THESE WRITINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

makes no common sense!

BUSTED!



Truth

Leesburg, VA

#415502 Jan 14, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Ever hear of sex?
Do me a favor?

What if you should disassemble a watch, place all the parts into a box (no parts missing,) close the box, tape all sides so no parts can fall out, and begin shaking, I mean shake it up good.

How long before the watch will be fully assembled again?
marge

Ames, IA

#415503 Jan 14, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
As you insist on pushing the total ban on statuary for those "who love the Lord", please tell the board what you and your fellows use instead of coins for currency. Coins contain the engraved relief images of US presidents and other things, and are thus unworthy of you.
Anxious to hear what work-around solution you've found for this.
Thanks in advance.
Huh? The love of money is the root of all evil, not money itself.
Pat

Granby, CT

#415504 Jan 14, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Can consciousness come from unconsciousness?
Yes, many boxers will wake up after being knocked out. Whya re you so stupid? Was god unwilling or unable to give you a decent IQ?
MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

#415505 Jan 14, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
God this, god that... You like all others have no knowledge of any god, whether he exists, what he does, wants, thinks or is. This proves you to be a typical theist, an amoral liar.
Its all based on FEAR.

........ Religious people worry more about the so called next life than they do about the life they should be enjoying here on earth right now. That clearly shows they are not happy in the current life they live.

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