Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.
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truth

Perth, Australia

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#414433
Jan 10, 2013
 
ants belong to termite..de=termite
creation determination recreation
its act as action

in name of Jesus Christ
who how where when..how much smaller bigger this or that..
koga je molit
nije ga srdit
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#414435
Jan 10, 2013
 
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
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I hear you Free Mind ...
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<quoted text>
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Pythagoras aside ...
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FIRST AND FOREMOST ..one must listen to the Teacher!
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But - what if the teacher is wrong? THAT is what Free Mind is saying.
If the teacher is WRONG he can't possibly teach the truth.
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JESUS CHRIST IS THE GOOD TEACHER. Nobody else.
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Jesus SAID, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
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Jesus SAID, "Call NO MAN your FATHER!"
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Jesus said, "Love your neighbor as yourself."
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Catholic Church said, "Call priests and pope your father."
Catholic Church said, "Torture heretics."
We get Catholicism as a result.
Inquisition.
Pedophile protection ring - worldwide.
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Muhammad said - There is no God but Allah.
We get Islam and Jihad.
Bloody war in the name of God.
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The teacher HAS to be a GOOD TEACHER, and the teacher HAS to tell the truth. Otherwise the "lesson learned" is a lie.
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IF YOU IGNORE WHAT THE GOOD TEACHER, JESUS CHRIST TAUGHT - you don't just blow a math test.
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You blow everlasting life.
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Right out of the starting gate, Catholics ignore what Jesus taught.
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"Call no man your Father."
And it only goes downhill from there.
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Now all you Catholics (when trying to dismiss the pedophilia) say that nobody is perfect so, "therefore", it is to be expected when priests screw up ---- but you keep listening to the teachings of the church, which is imperfect.
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and you DON'T listen to Jesus Christ who WAS perfect.
"Call no man your Father."
Jesus Christ said that for a reason.
Well, my post said "If a teaching is correct.........."
Free MInd

United States

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#414436
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll put it differently. You missed it.
Ford Motor Company made some cars that weren't reliable sold by salesmen who were less than candid about the car's reliability.
That being said, are you affirming that Ford Motor Company is a blighted institution for this fact? Bad from the top down?
Simple...

Ford Motor Co does not claim to be appointed or uniquely guided by God.

Ford does not claim to make "perfect" cars.

But if Ford did claim all those things, don't you think we should judge them by a higher standard?

If Ford claimed their cars were superior because of God's -- yet over many years, their cars proved no more reliable than any other car -- would you believe them?

BOTTOM LINE -- if a company or a church makes such a claim, then it shouldn't it be evident in some manner?

Otherwise, what's the point?

The RCC is a church. They claim to be a morally superior to all other churches, due to divine guidance.

But after 1600 years, NOTHING. They fudge their worldwide membership numbers. They lie about their deeds. They are secretive and promote censorship.

They claim diplomatic immunity to avoid inspection and accountability.

No "one-true" church would have so much to hide.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#414437
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Free MInd wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple...
Ford Motor Co does not claim to be appointed or uniquely guided by God.
Ford does not claim to make "perfect" cars.
But if Ford did claim all those things, don't you think we should judge them by a higher standard?
If Ford claimed their cars were superior because of God's -- yet over many years, their cars proved no more reliable than any other car -- would you believe them?
BOTTOM LINE -- if a company or a church makes such a claim, then it shouldn't it be evident in some manner?
Otherwise, what's the point?
The RCC is a church. They claim to be a morally superior to all other churches, due to divine guidance.
But after 1600 years, NOTHING. They fudge their worldwide membership numbers. They lie about their deeds. They are secretive and promote censorship.
They claim diplomatic immunity to avoid inspection and accountability.
No "one-true" church would have so much to hide.
No one claims that people in the Church are perfect, but the Church cannot teach error. They don't claim it-Christ established the Church to teach, thus it cannot teach error.

Please cite the membership totals YOU think correct, them "lying" about their deeds(?) and cite any context for your diplomatic immunity fixation.

Hurry up, before NASL calls me a blasphemer and a liar again.
Free MInd

United States

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#414438
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
No one claims that people in the Church are perfect, but the Church cannot teach error. They don't claim it-Christ established the Church to teach, thus it cannot teach error.
Please cite the membership totals YOU think correct, them "lying" about their deeds(?) and cite any context for your diplomatic immunity fixation.
Hurry up, before NASL calls me a blasphemer and a liar again.
I will give you a direct answer. I request same.

Inflated Membership totals...

I am still considered part of the RCC, counted in the 1.13 billion, or whatever the number is.

If anyone does not want to be counted, they must pay a fee to go through a formal de-baptism process.

If people are counted as members, yet they don't go to church, when do they stop being members. Many Euro countries still show as 80% catholic, yet the pew are nearly empty.

The numbers are there for anyone who cares. Links to polls by Pew Research and by Catholic polling organization have been posted here many times. You could easily find if you truly wanted to know.

Lying about deeds....

Please see why Ireland temporarily broke off diplomatic relations with the Vatican last year.

Please see why the government of Belgium raided a Bishop's Conference a few years ago.

More Lying? Either the Vatican's version of the Second Secret of Fatima is a lie, or Mary punished mankind with WW2 for no good reason.

Lying? Why invoke diplomatic immunity if you don't have anything to hide? Context? Numerous court requests for documents.

It's really pointless, because you will filter out anything that goes against your faith. Most people do that.

They call it "faith," not fact? You seem to get confused.

Dan writes: "They don't claim it-Christ established the Church."

That's one interpretation. There are others. But it's only faith, because you have no proof, nothing that would remotely begin to hold up in a court of law.

With no proof, we can only look at real world history and results. After 1600 years, where's the beef.

One question for Dan.

If the church cannot teach error, then what do you call it when the church reverses a previous teaching -- if not error?

Oh I forgot, teachings never "change," they are adjusted as more is revealed.



MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

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#414439
Jan 10, 2013
 
Free MInd wrote:
<quoted text>
I will give you a direct answer. I request same.
Inflated Membership totals...
I am still considered part of the RCC, counted in the 1.13 billion, or whatever the number is.
If anyone does not want to be counted, they must pay a fee to go through a formal de-baptism process.
If people are counted as members, yet they don't go to church, when do they stop being members. Many Euro countries still show as 80% catholic, yet the pew are nearly empty.
The numbers are there for anyone who cares. Links to polls by Pew Research and by Catholic polling organization have been posted here many times. You could easily find if you truly wanted to know.
Lying about deeds....
Please see why Ireland temporarily broke off diplomatic relations with the Vatican last year.
Please see why the government of Belgium raided a Bishop's Conference a few years ago.
More Lying? Either the Vatican's version of the Second Secret of Fatima is a lie, or Mary punished mankind with WW2 for no good reason.
Lying? Why invoke diplomatic immunity if you don't have anything to hide? Context? Numerous court requests for documents.
It's really pointless, because you will filter out anything that goes against your faith. Most people do that.
They call it "faith," not fact? You seem to get confused.
Dan writes: "They don't claim it-Christ established the Church."
That's one interpretation. There are others. But it's only faith, because you have no proof, nothing that would remotely begin to hold up in a court of law.
With no proof, we can only look at real world history and results. After 1600 years, where's the beef.
One question for Dan.
If the church cannot teach error, then what do you call it when the church reverses a previous teaching -- if not error?
Oh I forgot, teachings never "change," they are adjusted as more is revealed.
According to CARA and the PEW research centre, about 25% of roman catholics attend mandatory sunday mass weekly. 40 years ago those numbers were reversed.

Imagine if only 25% of workers at the FORD MOTOR COMPANY came to work when required?

No wonder they are making bad cars!
Free MInd

United States

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#414440
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
No one claims that people in the Church are perfect, but the Church cannot teach error. They don't claim it-Christ established the Church to teach, thus it cannot teach error.
Please cite the membership totals YOU think correct, them "lying" about their deeds(?) and cite any context for your diplomatic immunity fixation.
Hurry up, before NASL calls me a blasphemer and a liar again.
Dan, I can see you are replying with good intentions. But like so many, you confuse faith with fact. You have no proof or solid evidence -- which is why it's called faith.

Never has anyone here claimed that people in the RCC should be perfect. That statement is called "deflection."

The ONLY entity that claims any sort of "perfection" is the RCC.

Back to your original analogy....

1... If Ford claimed to make perfect cars, don't you think we should judge them by a higher standard than any other car company?

2... If Ford claimed to make perfect cars, but their cars broke down at the same rate as other car companies, wouldn't you be skeptical of their claim?

If Ford claimed to make perfect cars and offered as "proof" a statement from their own Corporate Mission Statement, would you accept that as proof?

Of course not.

The same holds true for the RCC.

Shouldn't we hold the RCC to a higher standard?

After 1600 years, shouldn't there be some real evidence that the RCC is morally special and unique in many ways?

After 1600 years, shouldn't it be so evident that by now, the Church would be embraced by a majority of mankind?

If Jesus died on the Cross to save mankind, after 1600 years, do you really think that only %5-10% of humanity is all Jesus had in mind?

With "perfect teachings" on morals, shouldn't Catholic-majority societies have much lower crime rates, and better systems of justice? Look at the Americas. What do you see?

In the past 500 years, has the RCC been a leader or a follower with respect to human rights such as equal justice and trial before peers?

Is the Bill of Rights somehow immoral? If not, why would the RCC have been against for so long?

Please tell us -- where's the beef?
truth

Perth, Australia

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#414441
Jan 10, 2013
 

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rich people not died..cemetry not exist for them..why is l;ike that?

Rich car never see any mechanic..did they are better then others and how much..no no no mechanic diploma not exist,..why is like that?

o well cheap as chips labour..as well robotic organization..but not for so long no..
byyyyyyyyyyyyy
Did people who past away need car?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#414442
Jan 10, 2013
 

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MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
If you ever question the catholic church or Jesus and you are not shelling out to the collection plate, you are a social catholic to them even if you were formerly baptized. That is 2 notches down from an acceptable catholic.
That is why they can call you LIAR!....sorry! thats how it works (lol)
ANTHONY would never call REGINA, CLAY, HOJO, GENED, PRESTON, CATHOLIC MOM... LIARS, and they would never call each other LIARS , even if they were. That is how it works.
Its like the secret society, the FREE MASONS...except there is no secret handshake........but I could be wrong.(lol)
In a nutshell - the honesty they say they have is shielded by religion.

IMO - if they were, in the slightest bit honest with themselves or others - they would not be part of Christianity.

I wonder why they refuse their Self.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#414443
Jan 10, 2013
 
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course not. I'm sure you are a reasonable, intelligent person.
But when it comes to your faith -- you like other will spin, deny, and deflect -- all in ways you would never do when dealing with real world matters.
The problem is that there is no evidence, no visible, real-world manifestation of the benefits of the RCC's supposed spiritual superiority.
Do Catholic-majority countries have less crime. Better systems of justice maybe?
Was it the "teacher of perfect morals" that first spoke up against slavery?
Did the Bill of Rights,-- with trial by jury of peers, the right to speedy justice, etc.-- come from that "perfect teacher of morals?
Is it possible that any "perfect teacher" was actually against so many rights that we both view as "moral" today?
In short, where's the beef?
"Where's the beef"
A: Self

It really isn't that hard to understand.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#414444
Jan 10, 2013
 

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MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
How could an offending priest/bishop hear my confession, and give me advice, if they aren't doing it themselves.
Truth, and honesty is the best policy. Its obvious church offenders didn't live by those virtues..........but they tell you to!
This is the crux of this forum.

Brilliant.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#414445
Jan 10, 2013
 

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LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
We must not participate in any practice in God's service unless we find it taught in the gospel. If God's word says to do a thing, we must do it just as He says and not change it.
What does that say, go back and read the whole post.
Uhm - sure.

Is this why you believe men over Jesus?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#414446
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Western civilization and the freedom of mankind, yours included, can be demonstrably credited to the Catholic Church. A thank you would be nice.
*watches Anthony pat himself on the back*

Citation please - namely for your statement concerning the CC that you proclaim to be fact.
Free MInd

United States

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#414447
Jan 10, 2013
 
MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
According to CARA and the PEW research centre, about 25% of roman catholics attend mandatory sunday mass weekly. 40 years ago those numbers were reversed.
Imagine if only 25% of workers at the FORD MOTOR COMPANY came to work when required?
No wonder they are making bad cars!
If the RCC's own polls are correct, then there are are fewer than 300 million practicing Catholics, not 1.13 billion.

Assuming a world population of 7 billion, then the question is:

How effective has Jesus' one-true church been in saving souls?

So far, dying on the cross and appointing the RCC as the "only true church," Jesus' supposed set-up has claimed less than 5% of the world's population.

Conclusion.......

Either the RCC's claim is absurd, or...

Jesus' ultimate sacrifice and church appointment was a bungled job, with a 95% failure rate.

I don't believe any self-respecting God would go through what Jesus did and be satisfied with a 5% success rate.

According to all reason and logic, and according to everything history teaches, I conclude that the RCC's claim is absurd.

Unless someone is born into the RCC, history and reality tell us there's almost no chance of being saved today -- because over 85% of RCC Catholics are born into the faith. Relatively speaking, very few humans born outside the Church somehow "find it" and convert.

I don't believe God is so arbitrary and callous, as to be so concerned about where and into what faith someone is born.

The RCC's claim is absurd on many levels.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#414448
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Free MInd wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple...
Ford Motor Co does not claim to be appointed or uniquely guided by God.
Ford does not claim to make "perfect" cars.
But if Ford did claim all those things, don't you think we should judge them by a higher standard?
If Ford claimed their cars were superior because of God's -- yet over many years, their cars proved no more reliable than any other car -- would you believe them?
BOTTOM LINE -- if a company or a church makes such a claim, then it shouldn't it be evident in some manner?
Otherwise, what's the point?
The RCC is a church. They claim to be a morally superior to all other churches, due to divine guidance.
But after 1600 years, NOTHING. They fudge their worldwide membership numbers. They lie about their deeds. They are secretive and promote censorship.
They claim diplomatic immunity to avoid inspection and accountability.
No "one-true" church would have so much to hide.
...but they will try to spin you away from all these facts, huh?
Free MInd

United States

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#414449
Jan 10, 2013
 

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New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the crux of this forum.
Brilliant.
Exactly.

No honest, "one true" Church would ever think of using diplomatic immunity to avoid the truth being revealed.

Interesting too, this state power of immunity was bestowed upon God's supposed "only church" by Bonito Mussolini.

Therefore, Catholics are saying that Jesus used Mussolini in ways that make no sense - for any righteous and just God.

And so it goes.
Free MInd

United States

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#414450
Jan 10, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
...but they will try to spin you away from all these facts, huh?
Of course, because they have made claims which are not supportable in the real world.

In fact, the exact opposite is true.
truth

Perth, Australia

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#414451
Jan 10, 2013
 

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god is not bird
did mussulini have two wings on head

o well
byyyyyyyyyy
why poor people exist
Free MInd

United States

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#414452
Jan 10, 2013
 
Many people in many church commit sins.

However, all the Priestly sinners in the RCC put together could NOT pull off a decades-long, worldwide cover-up of child abuse.

Something like that takes the organizational skills and power of the church itself.

If this were not true, then the church would not use HOLY DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY to keep from turning over relevant documents.

This is all obvious to all but those with blind faith.

It's become so absurd that the RCC is a comedy club staple.

In fact, the RCC was a comedy club joke even before it admitted a "problem."

So according to Catholics, the entire world somehow knew before the RCC itself?

Yet another absurdity.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

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#414453
Jan 10, 2013
 

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New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
*watches Anthony pat himself on the back*
Citation please - namely for your statement concerning the CC that you proclaim to be fact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_the_Cath...

You should but this book;

http://www.tomwoods.com/books/how-the-catholi...

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