Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

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The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#413441 Jan 5, 2013
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>If in fact that your family had to use alcoholic beverages to aid in the bearing of Pain,who am I preston to argue with you? It is not for me to condemn anyone who uses alcohol and for whatever reason.Your statement points a finger at me as that I would condemn you somehow,or your family.Don't even go there.
If you know the proper use,and your family has been able to use the alochol beverages to alleviate some sort of suffering,I would be the last person to claim you folks were wrong to do so.I reject any notion from you that places me in a judging manner toward especially those who suffer!
it was not the pain per se, it was the withdrawal from the beer to go with it,

and you know me well enough to know that If I want to say something to you, I would. it was more that I would not want it to happen to you, in any way shape of form.

imagine him dying, as we saw it, and in pain that drugs cant alleviate, and we knew that, a woman who had loved her man and saw him sufferring and him wanting a beer(or more). so she broke her cardinal rule and relented.

that and that alone was the only point that I was wanting to make.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#413442 Jan 5, 2013
Why would Roman Catholic priests have to form a UNION if there wasn't issues between them and their superiors?

To date nearly 1,000 roman catholic priests have joined the ranks of forming an association in the USA. Modeled after the Priest Associations in Ireland, Germany, and Austria with more to come.

...They want a greater voice in the church and they indicate there appears to be a BRICK WALL between them and the hirearchy when it comes to dialouge.

..They indicate there are 3 distinct groups of priests with different agendas in the church.

So much for one big happy family!

http://fathernormsnotebook.blogspot.ca/2012/0...
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#413443 Jan 5, 2013
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
Remember Anthony the bulk of clergy caught committed the crimes years before when the victims were children. Today 20-25 years later the victims now have to courage to come forward and accuse the perpitrators for the crimes they committed in the 1980s or 90s.
You don't believe that there are many more who have never been caught?
Have you received a speeding ticket EVERY time you went over the speed limit? NO! Did you get a ticket everytime you coasted slowly through a stop sign without a complete stop? NO!
..... You don't believe that a large number of victims WOULD NEVER come forward out of embarassement and shame and many of their parents would fear in never accusing a clergy member of such wrong doing.
I would bet there are many.
In 2011 there were 7 credible accusations. That's 0.000175% of the priest population. If you multiply that by 100 it's 0.0175%. That's less than any other large organization on the planet. It's still terrible and the guilty should go to prison, but the Church is making tremendous improvement. That's being accountable.
Clay

Chicago, IL

#413444 Jan 5, 2013
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
Try this link. 276 catholic clerics (boston)
They wouldn't list the names if credible information wasn't available.
Know any of these priests?
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ma_bosto...
Wait a sec .. you just got caught deceitfully quoting something that wasn't even in the link you provided..
NOW you post a link with hundreds of ACCUSED Priests- many of whom have been cleared.

Boy, you're on a roll today.

Clay says Michael is as sick as any guilty clergy for using child sex abuse as a platform for his vendetta against Catholicism.
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#413445 Jan 5, 2013
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
What a bunch of baloney!
So what you are saying is if 30 years ago someone witnessed a man raping a child he would call a psychiatrist instead of calling the police?
I remember 30, 40, 50 years ago if a man raped a woman THE POLICE WERE CALLED, not a psychiatrist.
What about the lies Anthony anytime a parishioner would ask why is Father Smith being moved? The answer from the rest of the clergy would be, he is needed elsewhere. THE TRUTH WAS NEVER TOLD, because the church didn't want the truth to be told.
If you witnessed a young boy being abused 30 years ago, would you call a psychiatrist or 9-1-1!
I rest my case!
You should just give it a rest.

"In this respect, the Church was far from alone. When the Church was sending accused priests to psychological treatment, "the criminal justice system was doing the very same thing with convicted offenders sending them to treatment instead of prison."

"From the 1950's to the 1980's, these treatment-based interventions for sexual criminals were not only enormously prevalent in the United States, but surveys of ordinary citizens showed that they were enormously popular

"[T]he science of human sexuality and sexual offending is extraordinarily young. Virtually all of the information we utilize today regarding the treatment and supervision of sexual offenders has been discovered since 1985."
Dr. Monica Applewhite, Ph.D.

"No one would hold a brain surgeon to today's standard of care for professional decisions he made in 1970. Yet the decisions made in 1970 by Catholic bishops, who routinely consulted with mental health professionals about sick priests, are being judged by today's standards. Today, the confidence of the mental health community about the likelihood of curing sexual disorders is far less than it was in 1970."
L. Martin Nussbaum, "Changing the Rules" (America magazine, 2006)

http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#413446 Jan 5, 2013
Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the argument he is making is that legislation against an offense proves knowledge that the offense is taking place, or has taken place in the past.
.
This argument has some merit.
.
Where I think it falls apart is what the anti-Catholics think it means.
.
When there is a directive against disclosures regading abuse committed during the sacrament of confession, the anti-Catholic folks call that a cover-up.
.
And it COULD have been ... but there is a quite reasonable explanation of it.
.
If Suzy comes to me and tells me that Fr. Smith sexually abused her when she went to him for confession, I cannot repeat that with breaking the seal, nor can I grant Fr. Smith the right to confront his accuser.
.
It would be much simpler if Suzy would just go th the Civil Authority and report. If she won't do that, there is very little I can do, except under the utmost secrecy.
.
This is not to protect the accused ( well, except that he REALLY should be able to confront his accuser, but I don't know that this is an absolute in Canon Law. Should be, but may not be), but rather to protect the right of the accuser, who has a right to secrecy over the fact that she went to confession.
.
I *never* have the right to divulge that fact, any more than I could divulge what she confessed.
.
The directive from the pope that all accusations regarding an offense committed DURING THE SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION be held in a diocese's "secret archives" (roughly equivalent to "personnel files" for any group or corporation, as these are considered "confidential documents") was an attempt to address the confidentiality of the matte, to not break the seal of the confessional.
.
Our directive is that we are to make IMMEDIATE report of any allegation of sexual abuse of a minor to DHS. I have never seen a directive as to what to do if someone tells me in the contexts of the confessional. I would push such a person to make the report themselves.
.
If someone told me that Fr. Smith had commited sexual abuse (and they are telling ME this outside of the confessional), my response would be to call DHS, and tell them Suzy had made an accusation against Fr. Smith. "When?" Why, she just told me. "No,*when* does she say this occurred?" I forget. You have your job. Go ASK the peson who made the accusation.
.
Rob
Rob:

Over the years there have been thousands of instances that clergy have abused children. A mortal sin each time.

These very clergy who taught me as a child that I could NEVER receive the Eucharist with such a sin on MY SOUL without confession/repentance, yet these men so holy gave themselves the eucharist every mass they said without confession/repentance first and often carried on dozens of times committing the same sin over and over.

Any priest/bishop who was aware of another clergy member who had abused a child, how could those other priests allow the molesting priest to hear someone else's confession when he has worse sins on his own soul and how could the good priests allow this molesting priest to give himself holy communion during mass when the good priest knew damn well this priest was sinning?

Do as we say, not as we do......
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#413447 Jan 5, 2013
Michael wrote:
Why would Roman Catholic priests have to form a UNION if there wasn't issues between them and their superiors?
To date nearly 1,000 roman catholic priests have joined the ranks of forming an association in the USA. Modeled after the Priest Associations in Ireland, Germany, and Austria with more to come.
...They want a greater voice in the church and they indicate there appears to be a BRICK WALL between them and the hirearchy when it comes to dialouge.
..They indicate there are 3 distinct groups of priests with different agendas in the church.
So much for one big happy family!
http://fathernormsnotebook.blogspot.ca/2012/0...
The new union is being led in part by Rembert Weakland, retired Archbishop of Milwaukee, an admitted homosexual with one of the worst records of protecting victims from predator priests.

Do you really think we should support this group?
Clay

Chicago, IL

#413448 Jan 5, 2013
Michael wrote:
ANTHONY this might be easier. Pick out your state of Minnesota, then pick your, diocese out of the 6 in Minnesota and see if you recognize any of these names?
http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/Pri...
I read MPLS/saint Paul.. I saw two priest out of 30 on your link that were guilty since 1950.

The rest weren't convicted of anything. Yet, you posted their names anyway. I pray for their poor parents.
This is called slander Michel. You're one of the most sick vile human beings I've ever come across.

Thousands upon thousands of the names you posted did nothing wrong. Does that make you feel good about yourself?
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#413449 Jan 5, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
In 2011 there were 7 credible accusations. That's 0.000175% of the priest population. If you multiply that by 100 it's 0.0175%. That's less than any other large organization on the planet. It's still terrible and the guilty should go to prison, but the Church is making tremendous improvement. That's being accountable.
Agreed!

What is troubling Anthony is the history of the church leaders, who opted to create rules that allowed victims to suffer, primarily to protect the church, and in essence protects the criminal.

makes no common sense!

...If one of your daughters was molested when she was young and the perpitrator went to a priest for confession and the priest knew about it, wouldn't it pain you to know that the church has created rules, to protect the criminal and not your daughter as no one would ever be caught for the crime committed?

I know how I would respond!

Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#413450 Jan 5, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I read MPLS/saint Paul.. I saw two priest out of 30 on your link that were guilty since 1950.
The rest weren't convicted of anything. Yet, you posted their names anyway. I pray for their poor parents.
This is called slander Michel. You're one of the most sick vile human beings I've ever come across.
Thousands upon thousands of the names you posted did nothing wrong. Does that make you feel good about yourself?
What do you mean they did nothing wrong?

If that was slander that website would have been taken down 2 years ago. Its been up since then and still available.

The arch diocese of Boston paid out nearly $600,000,000 in lawsuits. Do you think that was the result of a handful of priests?

$200,000,000 lawsuits paid out in San Diego California.

$600 MILLION paid out in another california diocese in 2002. Los Angeles.

Thats nearly $1 Billion just in California alone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/08/us/08church...

something is wrong Clay! Wake up!

Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#413451 Jan 5, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a sec .. you just got caught deceitfully quoting something that wasn't even in the link you provided..
NOW you post a link with hundreds of ACCUSED Priests- many of whom have been cleared.
Boy, you're on a roll today.
Clay says Michael is as sick as any guilty clergy for using child sex abuse as a platform for his vendetta against Catholicism.
The church would have fought the lawsuits in California if they didn't believe they were true. Who writes checks for bogus claims?

The bishops of both in SanDiego and LosAngeles apologized to the victims. The bishops admitted guilt.

$860,000,000 MILLION dollars in California and hundreds of victims.

HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?

....and for some wacko reason you still want to blame me......

YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON IN YOUR CHURCH.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#413452 Jan 5, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I read MPLS/saint Paul.. I saw two priest out of 30 on your link that were guilty since 1950.
The rest weren't convicted of anything. Yet, you posted their names anyway. I pray for their poor parents.
This is called slander Michel. You're one of the most sick vile human beings I've ever come across.
Thousands upon thousands of the names you posted did nothing wrong. Does that make you feel good about yourself?
CLAY says........

..I read MPLS/saint Paul.. I saw two priest out of 30 on your link that were guilty since 1950.

MICHAEL says......So! the church just decided to write checks to everyone. How much do you need? We can match that!(lol)

you are not fooling anyone Clay with your denial of facts.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#413453 Jan 5, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said "no big deal" you jackass, I said it's part of the human condition. Sin will never be eradicated as long as the human race exists. And there are tons of official documents produced over the centuries and 99.99% of them DON'T deal with sexual abuse, so you have no point.
Mike, there were 7 credible accusations in 2011. That's 0.000175% of the priest population.
That IS being accountable.
0.000175 is pretty small...each offended one must have gotten millions of dollars from the courts.

The human condition of sin is why Jesus came to set us free. IF people are born again, they can be completely free.

Putting numbers of young men together, and denying them their natural use, is a guarantee for failure.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#413454 Jan 5, 2013
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Greetings disciple old friend
I think one needs to prioritize....First is God's Law, then God's Revealed Law, Natural Law, then civil law.
Here in the U.S. we have deviated our civil law from Natural Law(as in the case of abortion).
Thus the moral nature of our country makes it on a course for desolation.
From the founding of the colonies to the declaration of the Supreme Court, America's heritage is built up on the principles of the Christian religion. And yet the secularists are dismantling this foundation brick by brick, attempting to deny the very core of our national life.

You weigh the evidence. Consider the following facts which are being systematically erased from our nation's memory:
In 1892, the Supreme Court of the United States declared, "This is a Christian nation."
During the War for Independence, Congress resolved to import 20,000 volumes of the Bible because "the use of the Bible is so universal, and its importance so great."
The New England Confederation stated that the purpose of the colonies was "to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ and to enjoy the liberties of the gospel in purity with peace."
Harvard College required that each student believe that "the main end of his life and studies is to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternal life."
John Adams wrote, "The Christian religion is...the Religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and humanity."
Engraved on the metal cap on the top of the Washington Monument are the words "Praise be to God."
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#413455 Jan 5, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Point taken father, yet I'm certain Mike doesn't care one whit about what it does mean.
It means that there are rules for some and rules for others. Kind of sad when MORALITY means nothing, and Anthony agrees. If the chips are ever down and bad karma bites you in the butt and the only person who knows is a priest, God help you.

Off topic:

A couple days ago you made light of the priests that had joined/formed their Association/Union in america.

..... You made it sound like I siding with them. No Anthony they are priests in your church, who distribute the sacraments, and I am sure some of YOUR collection money goes to pay for their salaries, and benefits. Much like the 47,000 nuns in america that you also refer to as RADICAL FEMINISTS. You again Anthony pay a big chunk of the upkeep of their hundreds of convents, and the 47,000 monthly salaries and benefits THEY receive.

Can't have it both ways. Bad mouth some of the clergy and nuns yet you financially support them.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, but don't slam the ones you feed.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#413456 Jan 5, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
0.000175 is pretty small...each offended one must have gotten millions of dollars from the courts.
The human condition of sin is why Jesus came to set us free. IF people are born again, they can be completely free.
Putting numbers of young men together, and denying them their natural use, is a guarantee for failure.
508 victims just in Los Angeles just a few years ago. One CITY!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/08/us/08church...

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#413457 Jan 5, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Try clicking on Michaels link and tell me if his quote is found in it.
I did and couldn't see it. Its not in there.
His goal is to slander the CC for his own pathetic agenda. He succeeded.
Maybe you should have your eyes checked?
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#413458 Jan 5, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a sec .. you just got caught deceitfully quoting something that wasn't even in the link you provided..
NOW you post a link with hundreds of ACCUSED Priests- many of whom have been cleared.
Boy, you're on a roll today.
Clay says Michael is as sick as any guilty clergy for using child sex abuse as a platform for his vendetta against Catholicism.
Clay, why would you slam me for exposing sinful acts committed by people who should know better?

Clay if you look again at that website on the far right in blue, are the sources of information from the many news publications that reported on these cases. These were newspapers that probably came to your door back in the day. They are public knowledge and can be found in any library.

http://bishop-accountability.org/member/psear...
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#413459 Jan 5, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
0.000175 is pretty small...each offended one must have gotten millions of dollars from the courts.
The human condition of sin is why Jesus came to set us free. IF people are born again, they can be completely free.
Putting numbers of young men together, and denying them their natural use, is a guarantee for failure.
Thanks for your opinion Kay.

No one denies them anything. They spend years discerning the calling.

Was St. Paul wrong for denying his natural use?
Clay

Chicago, IL

#413460 Jan 5, 2013
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
Clay, why would you slam me for exposing sinful acts committed by people who should know better?
Clay if you look again at that website on the far right in blue, are the sources of information from the many news publications that reported on these cases. These were newspapers that probably came to your door back in the day. They are public knowledge and can be found in any library.
http://bishop-accountability.org/member/psear...
You're posting a link that has mostly accused Priests on it. You got caught. Don't you care about the innocents you just trashed? Are your parents proud of what their son has become?
If I knew my son was going around doing this crap id be disgusted. Of course, you enjoy the anonymity of the internet....for now.

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