Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 548,951
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Pad

Rockford, IL

#412469 Dec 31, 2012
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly.
They claim that Jesus demands no accountability. None. Zero.
Silly -- the supposed teacher of "perfect morals" accepts zero accountability for itself.
The ONLY reason the Pope apologized to the world for the largest child sex abuse cover-up in history was NOT because it was right.
Nope, the Vatican was caught red-handed in its lies -- thanks to among other things -- a police raid on a Bishops Conference in Belgium.
How does anyone make sense of Jesus requiring a police raid before guiding his supposed church to tel the truth?
It makes no sense and Jesus comes out looking like a buffoon.
BUSTED....
"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Anytime,Christians sin we bring shame to the Cross of Christ,as we continue to rebel against His provision for us to His Victory over sin and death.I state this Free Mind,because many are the sins of all affiliations in Christianity,and you could say we all make Jesus look like a buffoon.

No doubt that child molestation is so grevious,and a physical assault on the most vulnerable should require incarceration,not just a slap on the hand,and or a transfer to another church or parish.

I have talked with Christians from many types of evangelical churches and asked them what they do when a pedophile is discovered in their midst.Very rarely is that person kept in the denomination or just transferred.Most of the time the police are allowed to enter into the situation,the person is arrested.That is how the authorities find out,from the church itself.Sad but the people realize that once a child is violated,there is no turning back or hiding the perpetrator from his being punished for his c r i m e.

We do not deny that pastors and other church workers have been predators in the various crimes of such,the pain and shame is so bad that we realize it is better to face the situation,and Let God be judge.No one wants to see a pastor or church worker arrested,tried and put in prison,but when they violate a child they deserve it.

I agree that a Cover up in any case is terrible,but I also understand the magnitude of trouble when one church system in particular has to deal with many perpetrators,not just a few.No doubt that a given Bishop knows that complaints are throughout his parish,not just one church,or one priest.Not of course that cover-up or transfer is an option.Many Bishops must feel that they must keep the pandora's box closed when dealing with one case at a time.

I understand your continuing to bring up the scandal,we all want to get Catholics to realize that the scandal is a deep flaw within the whole Catholic Church system.It is a chasm of an unfilled void in the Catholic Church that its people are not willing to confront head on.

The present pope is doing something which is better than nothing.But I believe that it is a deep flaw and something that speaks against the celibate hiearchy of the RCC.All through history the celibacy of the Roman Church has had pedophilia as a grave sin within their ranks.It is not just in this century!
Pad

Rockford, IL

#412470 Dec 31, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you just identify yourselves as "People of The Book"?
That's a heck of a title Pad.
I would advise you all to get together and come up with a unified understanding of The Book. This would be the responsible thing to do, right?
You guys don't venture deep enough into scripture to call yourselves that. You barely scratch the surface and pretty much ignore the Old Testament... because of that, you don't understand things like the Eucharist and the Passover; the sacrificial Lamb pertaining to the Lamb of God.
The Jews understood the importance of partaking in the sacrificial Lamb. They consumed it.
Christ is the Lamb of God.
Now do you see the importance of The Mass and partaking in the Eucharist? You see why The Old Testament and New, flow together?
Denying that Christ came in the flesh is antichrist.If we believe that Jesus came to earth as God,but did not have a totally human body inherited from his mother Mary.we missed the Incarnation,and than we truly believe in gnoticism.

Nevertheless we evangelicals along with most Christians believe in the Incarnation,and the power of the Divine and Humanity of our Lord.He now sits at the right hand of His Father in glory,in a resurrected Body that includes both the physical and spiritual,because of the Incarnation.

I believe wholeheartedly that Jesus is the Lamb of God.He gave His life in total humility,He could have called ten thousand angels to destroy and set Him free from the hands of angy evil men seeking to kill Him.

But He did not,He became as an innocent precious lamb instead,and obedient unto death.It is in the death of this precious MAN and GOD,we have our being,and the possible victory over sin and death.May God ever reveal through His Spirit even more the mystery of His Son who gave Himself so freely.Sin cannot be tolerated by us,even though we all sin,for Jesus did not die in vain.

BUT let us be real here Clay,Jesus is not a lamb is He,He is not an animal.although His total attitude and obedience was as totally submissive as a precious little lamb.Everytime I see movies where Jewish priests are sacrificing lambs as in Jesus of Nazareth,and pictures on the story of Mary and Joseph, it really hits me about the lamb brought to the slaughter.

But Jesus is no more a lamb(animal) than He is the Lion or (animal) of Judah.Jesus is not literally a lamb,or is He literally a Lion.But yet Jesus is called the Lamb of God,and the Lion of Judah.

We use these terms to deepen our understanding of the obedient servant our Lord was in the Lamb(submissive and precious,tender),and the opposite,as the ferocious ruler of victory,and Power,and Majesty as the LION of Judah.Jesus as Lion,is typified to the King of the Jungle as it were,the Lion,which is known by all of humaity as the most ferocious and powerful of the wild cats,and with that glorious mane around his head,is king of the jungle.

Jesus before His death became the submissive lamb to the slaughter although not a real animal or lamb,and after His death and resurrection He is the powerful King who sits on the throne,typified as a LION of Judah,although not a real lion or animal in the jungle.

Jesus offered His body and blood in the death He so willingly and submissively gave for us.We cannot physically which is rooted in sin appreciate the magnitude of that sacrifice,but spiritually with His Spirit we can,and it becomes that spiritual nourishment and oasis from our sinful flesh and nature.Continued;

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#412471 Dec 31, 2012
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>Nevertheless we evangelicals along with most Christians believe in the Incarnation,and the power of the Divine and Humanity of our Lord.He now sits at the right hand of His Father in glory,in a resurrected Body that includes both the physical and spiritual,because of the Incarnation.

He gave His life
You probably don't see the stupidity of statements above, so I will break it down for you.

What did jesus sacrifice, if he is still alive now? He stated that he was going to be sitting with his father, in heaven, right? So, he knew before hand that he was going to get his life back, right?

Hence, there was no sacrifice. To be a sacrifice, something has to be given up; gone forever. At least in the mind of the person making the sacrifice.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#412472 Dec 31, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
"I'll tell you what. You give me chapter and verse that says the books of the New Testament are all that's revealed about Jesus and His teaching.
fool."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Why don't you tell us what you know about Jesus and His teachings APART from the scriptures. And perhaps you might at least act like a christian and cease with the childish name calling.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#412473 Dec 31, 2012
Communion for us brings out the reality of what Jesus suffered as the L a m b,His submission.When we partake of bread and the juice(wine as in the Scriptures),we consider the humanity of Christ,His flesh and blood,first of all respecting totally His reality as the Incarnate Christ,who IS MAN through the Virgin Birth.

Jesus did not die on the Cross basically as God,but as Man,as a sacrifice replacing the Lamb(animal sacrifice).If we see Jesus dying as God,we fail to see the magnitude of His humanity,and becoming sin for us.The Lamb became the sin offering for the Jewish people,as a holy appeasement before the Living God.Nothing was more precious in the sight of God than the Jewish sacrifice of the Lamb every passover.God's whole and dignified wrath against a rebellious people was held back,by that innocent and precious lamb offered every year.

Jesus being that substitute for the L a m b,was really unknown to the Jewish people,that is they did not sacrifice Jesus with the knowledge of what He was before His Father.The Jews did not see the killing or crucifixion of Christ as a sacrifice.But in the sight of the Father HE was a holy and innocent and complete sacrifice,the FINAL one,never to be repeated again by Jesus,HE said "IT is Finished""It is accomplished" "It is Completed".

That mystery is first for the JEW,than the gentile.It is for the Jew to understand why God chose His only begotten Son to lay down His life freely for the most greatest detriment to human kind S I N. Continued:

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#412474 Dec 31, 2012
Pad wrote:
Communion for us brings out the reality of what Jesus suffered as the L a m b
OK, if you want to say that he suffered! That is totally different from sacrificing his life! You cannot sacrifice a life that cannot be taken, now can you?

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#412475 Dec 31, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>any FOOL can post Bible verses.
~~~

There are no substance that exist in the galaxy that is more powerful than the word' of God...

Faith is the foundational substance that activates God's word in out lives..

~~~

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

___

THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY HIS FAITH IN GOD'S WORD..

IT IS SAID OF ABRAHAM (the father of faith )

Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he/GOD had promised, he was able also to perform.

Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him/ABRAHAM for righteousness.

NOTE

Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

Rom 4:24 ==> But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;<==

Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

___

Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb_10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

___
GOD'S WORD is the FOUNDATION ....THAT FAITH IS BUILT UPON....

FAITH CAN ONLY BE FOUNDED IN GOD'S WORD...

WE HAVE CONFIDENCE IN SECULAR/EARTHLY THINGS,

BUT FAITH IS THE EPITOME OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION.

The Apostle Paul wrote

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Jesus said

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:

-->the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It is the fool that denies the word of God...

Psa_14:1 , A Psalm of David.

==>The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

~~~

To hate God's word is but to hate Jesus...

Jesus is the word of God made flesh...

Joh_1:14 -->And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#412476 Dec 31, 2012
As the mystery of our Lord's sacrifice is still hidden to the tr4aditional Jew,it is not hidden from those of us who by faith receive Him.We realize through the Spirit that Jesus died for all of humanity not just the Jews.But we have to realize as well that Jesus died for the Jews first in that He died i n the vicinity of Jerusalem the Capital of Jewish life.The place where the Temple stood of all Hebrew worship of the living God.

The Passover Lamb to the Jew was the only way for God to withold judgment on the whole of the Jewish nation for their sins.So Jesus first of all is crucified for the Jews,and through the preaching of the gospel we find that Jesus died for the whole world.Sin cannot be the desolate end for the Gentile world,because Jesus through His death is the Promise of God to the Gentiles of salvation.

The fact that many Christians observe communion without the belief of transubstantiation,is that Like Jesus is not a lamb,nor is He a lion,He is not a piece of bread nor is He a cup of wine.But in the Spirit there is life,and through His body and blood we have access to the spiritual life,in that what He did at Calvary gives us the ability to enter the presence of a HOLY HOLY HOLY God,not marred by the sin that so easily besets all of human kind.

In Jesus not a piece of bread or a cup of wine,we have eternal life.The bread and wine gives us the physical reality of what Jesus shared as His own body and blood,the Physical sacrifice,which by the way became sin for us,before a Holy and righteous God.Jesus became the appeasement rather as we use the word propitiation.

The bread and wine really is also significant of the fact that JESUS Himself was sin on that CROSS,suffering for our horrible sin natures.How can we fathom such? By when we partake of the elements of Communion we barely understand the magnitude of the mystery of Jesus being the only sacrifice that once and for all appeases the Father from destroying the whole world which is set on a course to Hell,not Heaven.

No longer can an animal sacrifice suffice,it is only through JESUS,and He knowing our limited scope of the vastness of His Father and the abomination of sin,shares His body and blood in the form of bread and wine.We barely touch the surface of what Jesus accomplished at Calvary .

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#412477 Dec 31, 2012
Pad wrote:
Communion for us brings out the reality of what Jesus suffered as the L a m b,His submission.When we partake of bread and the juice(wine as in the Scriptures),we consider the humanity of Christ,His flesh and blood,first of all respecting totally His reality as the Incarnate Christ,who IS MAN through the Virgin Birth.
Jesus did not die on the Cross basically as God,but as Man,as a sacrifice replacing the Lamb(animal sacrifice).If we see Jesus dying as God,we fail to see the magnitude of His humanity,and becoming sin for us.The Lamb became the sin offering for the Jewish people,as a holy appeasement before the Living God.Nothing was more precious in the sight of God than the Jewish sacrifice of the Lamb every passover.God's whole and dignified wrath against a rebellious people was held back,by that innocent and precious lamb offered every year.
Jesus being that substitute for the L a m b,was really unknown to the Jewish people,that is they did not sacrifice Jesus with the knowledge of what He was before His Father.The Jews did not see the killing or crucifixion of Christ as a sacrifice.But in the sight of the Father HE was a holy and innocent and complete sacrifice,the FINAL one,never to be repeated again by Jesus,HE said "IT is Finished""It is accomplished" "It is Completed".
That mystery is first for the JEW,than the gentile.It is for the Jew to understand why God chose His only begotten Son to lay down His life freely for the most greatest detriment to human kind S I N. Continued:
~~~

PAD

I always appreciate your post...

HAPPY NEW YEAR AND BLESSINGS TO YOU AND YOURS...

to me... COMMUNION STIRS A REMEMBRANCE IN MY OWN HEART....OF AN EVENT THAT

NO HUMAN BEING ...THAT EXIST CAN EVER RELATE TO OR ..COMPREHEND..OR PORTRAY

==>IT IS WHEN ...

Isa 53:6 ....==>THE LORD HATH LAID ON HIM/JESUS CHRIST..THE INIQUITY OF US ALL.

HE EXONERATED/FORGAVE/AND FORGETS....THE SINS...OF ALL ...BEFORE THEY

EVER MADE THE DECISION...

TO RECEIVE ...GOD'S FREE GIFT OF SALVATION .

AN ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS ....

Rom 10:9 That if thou/WE shalt confess with thy/OUR mouth/S the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine/OUR heart/S

that God hath raised him /JESUS from the dead, thou/WE ARE... shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#412478 Dec 31, 2012
Does the 'bread' of the eucharist look like bread, or does it look like flesh? Does the 'bread' of the
eucharist feel like bread, or does it feel like flesh? Does the 'bread' taste like bread or does it taste like flesh? If the bread of the eucharist were left out would it rot, or is it incorruptible?
What of the 'wine'? Does it look like wine, or does it chage appearence to look like blood? Does it still smell like wine? Does it taste like wine? Does it not taste like wine? If you were to consume to much would it intoxicate?
And yet you want to lay aside ALL evidence and reality to believe the unbiblical principle taught by your 'church'.
Never in all of the bible did Jesus perform a miracle in which there was not positive evidence that a miracle had taken place. Why does the RCC teach that this is an exception?
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck and feels like a duck and tastes like a duck, it is most assuredly a duck.
LTM

Sault Sainte Marie, Canada

#412479 Dec 31, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
There are no substance that exist in the galaxy that is more powerful than the word' of God...
Faith is the foundational substance that activates God's word in out lives..
~~~
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
___
THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY HIS FAITH IN GOD'S WORD..
IT IS SAID OF ABRAHAM (the father of faith )
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he/GOD had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him/ABRAHAM for righteousness.
NOTE
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 ==> But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;<==
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
___
Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Heb_10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
___
GOD'S WORD is the FOUNDATION ....THAT FAITH IS BUILT UPON....
FAITH CAN ONLY BE FOUNDED IN GOD'S WORD...
WE HAVE CONFIDENCE IN SECULAR/EARTHLY THINGS,
BUT FAITH IS THE EPITOME OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION.
The Apostle Paul wrote
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Jesus said
Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
-->the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
It is the fool that denies the word of God...
Psa_14:1 , A Psalm of David.
==>The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
~~~
To hate God's word is but to hate Jesus...
Jesus is the word of God made flesh...
Joh_1:14 -->And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Amen Amen Praise The Lord.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#412480 Dec 31, 2012
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, if you want to say that he suffered! That is totally different from sacrificing his life! You cannot sacrifice a life that cannot be taken, now can you?
Interesting response.Thank you!

Sacrifice is what God basically did,not that the Jews were doing as we know they were not aware of what Jesus was,let alone sacrifice Him for sin.

But we know that God the Father sacrificed His Son,instead of accepting the usual lamb in the yearly Passover.God wanted through His Son to END once and for all animal sacrifices for sin.Since sin is so intertwined in human life and development,God knew that the only way to finally deal a death blow to the outcome of the destructive elements of sin,was to literally enter the scene Himself in Christ.

It is apparent that sin is not gone,we have it more now than ever,and of course many who claim to know Christ s i n.But the whole point of Calvary and Jesus' death is that He ROSE from that final end for all humanity.He rose victorious over death,which is a penalty for sin as well as being the end of a physical life.Both the physical and spiritual life of humans can be rendered void because of sin,so God sent His Son to give every human being a chance to be resurrected unto life,not to be sentenced to death and destruction. Human beings need to know that the sin we all are subject to on this world does not have the final victory over us.

It is deeply ingrained in us.Think of how many movies are made that base their story around a rotten civilization and a HERO who comes to rescue many from slavery and so on to that civilization.The bad guy (villain) and the hero or good guy is depicted in every movie,it is so ingrained in us.Almost every modern day movie has the theme of corrupt individuals either enslaved by drugs,alcohol or just power make life miserable for so many,and a H E R O type comes and challenges the bad,and wins the victory in the end.

How many movies depict a person who wants to rule the whole world in complete slavery and evil,yet is finally defeated by a H E R O,or an individual who seeks tod estroy the world by some sort of weapon or chemical,and a H E R O saves the day.All this is human kind realizing that dark side to humanity and relying on a better side to overcome the worst,and life continues on.

The human desire is to live a peaceful life free to live prosperously and so on,but because of the pitfalls of life and the limitations we all face,that peace and prosperity is severly challenged.Everyone handles it differently,some submit to the daily grind of being challenged and trying to deal with,using their better side to overcome to survive,and SOME of course do the opposite,steal,murder,or try to take control as politicians are tempted to do.

The fiber of sin in all of human doings is so strong that often we are oblivious to its tentacles. God sees that and offers the only way for human beings to confront that dark side with real clarity,and an ultimate conquest to a righteous rather than a damnable end.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#412481 Dec 31, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
PAD
I always appreciate your post...
HAPPY NEW YEAR AND BLESSINGS TO YOU AND YOURS...
to me... COMMUNION STIRS A REMEMBRANCE IN MY OWN HEART....OF AN EVENT THAT
NO HUMAN BEING ...THAT EXIST CAN EVER RELATE TO OR ..COMPREHEND..OR PORTRAY
==>IT IS WHEN ...
Isa 53:6 ....==>THE LORD HATH LAID ON HIM/JESUS CHRIST..THE INIQUITY OF US ALL.
HE EXONERATED/FORGAVE/AND FORGETS....THE SINS...OF ALL ...BEFORE THEY
EVER MADE THE DECISION...
TO RECEIVE ...GOD'S FREE GIFT OF SALVATION .
AN ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS ....
Rom 10:9 That if thou/WE shalt confess with thy/OUR mouth/S the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine/OUR heart/S
that God hath raised him /JESUS from the dead, thou/WE ARE... shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
The Scriptures you use here are the reason why we must contend for the Word of God,it tells of a Savior,a reason for the Savior,and how to receive the Savior.God does not abandon us,we more than likely abandon Him,and to forsake Scripture especially is to abandon Him.No matter how much everyone contends to be the author of the Word,or giving it to others,the Word stands alone as to the only Testament of His Divine Will for human kind.

It is always the manner of any given party or persons to WRITE up a will and testament for the distribution of property and personal possessions to the loved ones that will be left when one departs from this life.

Jesus made sure that the whole of the human race would receive His Will and testament in His Blood,but that it was written as well so we could be assured even more so of His intent and purpose to Save us from ourselves and the destruction of sin.There can be no argument today of the reality of the Word,it stands as that document of truth the LORD shares with us all,as to His ultimate Will,and the future with Him which is beyond the vastness of even the skies that portray the universe,of which we only have a glimpse.
Clay

Chicago, IL

#412482 Dec 31, 2012
4GVN wrote:
Does the 'bread' of the eucharist look like bread, or does it look like flesh? Does the 'bread' of the
eucharist feel like bread, or does it feel like flesh? Does the 'bread' taste like bread or does it taste like flesh? If the bread of the eucharist were left out would it rot, or is it incorruptible?
What of the 'wine'? Does it look like wine, or does it chage appearence to look like blood? Does it still smell like wine? Does it taste like wine? Does it not taste like wine? If you were to consume to much would it intoxicate?
And yet you want to lay aside ALL evidence and reality to believe the unbiblical principle taught by your 'church'.
Never in all of the bible did Jesus perform a miracle in which there was not positive evidence that a miracle had taken place. Why does the RCC teach that this is an exception?
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck and feels like a duck and tastes like a duck, it is most assuredly a duck.
Its kinda weird that the Apostles taught opposite of you.
Your belief in the Eucharist as a symbol is not your sin .. because that's what you were taught.
Your sin is continuing to teach it after you been fairly and irrefutably proven wrong. Every child you steer away from Christs will is not good 4gtvn..
Clay

Chicago, IL

#412483 Dec 31, 2012
4GVN wrote:
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
"I'll tell you what. You give me chapter and verse that says the books of the New Testament are all that's revealed about Jesus and His teaching.
fool."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Why don't you tell us what you know about Jesus and His teachings APART from the scriptures. And perhaps you might at least act like a christian and cease with the childish name calling.
We get a glimpse of Marian dogma thru scriptures. But its not explicitly defined.
We get a glimpse of the Papacy thru scriptures too.
The Holy Mass with the Eucharist as the center and climax was practiced from the earliest possible moments of Christianity.
But the Mass is not explicitly spelled out from scripture. The Eucharist is.
So what, you deny it all anyway.
Clay

Chicago, IL

#412484 Dec 31, 2012
Pad wrote:
Communion for us brings out the reality of what Jesus suffered as the L a m b,His submission.When we partake of bread and the juice(wine as in the Scriptures),we consider the humanity of Christ,His flesh and blood,first of all respecting totally His reality as the Incarnate Christ,who IS MAN through the Virgin Birth.
Jesus did not die on the Cross basically as God,but as Man,as a sacrifice replacing the Lamb(animal sacrifice).If we see Jesus dying as God,we fail to see the magnitude of His humanity,and becoming sin for us.The Lamb became the sin offering for the Jewish people,as a holy appeasement before the Living God.Nothing was more precious in the sight of God than the Jewish sacrifice of the Lamb every passover.God's whole and dignified wrath against a rebellious people was held back,by that innocent and precious lamb offered every year.
Jesus being that substitute for the L a m b,was really unknown to the Jewish people,that is they did not sacrifice Jesus with the knowledge of what He was before His Father.The Jews did not see the killing or crucifixion of Christ as a sacrifice.But in the sight of the Father HE was a holy and innocent and complete sacrifice,the FINAL one,never to be repeated again by Jesus,HE said "IT is Finished""It is accomplished" "It is Completed".
That mystery is first for the JEW,than the gentile.It is for the Jew to understand why God chose His only begotten Son to lay down His life freely for the most greatest detriment to human kind S I N. Continued:
Why does the Apostle John call Jesus the Lamb of God?

Why did Jesus say "unless you eat the flesh of The Son of Man (the Lamb of God) you have no life in you"?

When people heard what Christ said, and walked away. Why didn't Jesus say "wait, its just a symbol".

Why did Jesus hold up the bread and say, "this IS my body"?

Why did Jesus say "for my flesh is real food indeed"?

Why did Ignatius of Antioch - disciple of the Apostle John say "Take note to those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ who has come to us.. see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God... they abstain from The Eucharist because they do not confess that it is the flesh of Our Lord Jesus Christ."

Did the Apostle John teach Ignatius wrong?

The problem with you guys, is you sound down right wicked going against the Apostles.
You know not what you do.
Clay

Chicago, IL

#412485 Dec 31, 2012
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Amen Amen Praise The Lord.
What does the Apostle Paul mean ..when he says to hold steadfast to the traditions you were taught by word of mouth?
What traditions? By word of mouth, not written down??
Don't you think LTM, you ought to find out what the Apostle Paul is commanding?

hint: The Holy Mass and the Eucharist.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#412486 Dec 31, 2012
4GVN wrote:
Does the 'bread' of the eucharist look like bread, or does it look like flesh? Does the 'bread' of the
eucharist feel like bread, or does it feel like flesh? Does the 'bread' taste like bread or does it taste like flesh? If the bread of the eucharist were left out would it rot, or is it incorruptible?
What of the 'wine'? Does it look like wine, or does it chage appearence to look like blood? Does it still smell like wine? Does it taste like wine? Does it not taste like wine? If you were to consume to much would it intoxicate?
And yet you want to lay aside ALL evidence and reality to believe the unbiblical principle taught by your 'church'.
Never in all of the bible did Jesus perform a miracle in which there was not positive evidence that a miracle had taken place. Why does the RCC teach that this is an exception?
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck and feels like a duck and tastes like a duck, it is most assuredly a duck.
As the L a m b is the most precious and simple,unassuming,delicate,and tender of God's creatures in the animal kingdom,so BREAD and WINE are the most basic,and natural of substances to the human body.With wine excess has to be the harming result to its usage,and if one eats too much bread they would want to vomit.

But as a simple partaking of both elements we find that bread and wine signify the most simple of ingredients to human life and consumption.

Jesus offered both to represent His body and blood,which was to be sacrificed in the company of cruel and vicious men.No words can describe the holiness of what God allowed in offering up His Son to the whole world in the presence of angry evil men.

It all centers on the PERSON of Jesus,who lived His life leading a small group of 12 men to show them the Kingdom of His Father.

It ends with the relgious system of the Jews partnering with their conquerers the Romans to destroy Jesus.

The Last Supper brings for us the simplicity of a group of righteous men gathering together to share a holy feast with the most simplest and basic of foods,nothing spectacular,no killed animal cooked with sauces and so on.But bitter erbs,spices,and the bread and the wine.

Jesus in the Communion He had with His Apostles that night,shared what would become the most vulnerable and tenderest of men Himself. Bread and wine in simplicity was shared to represent his body and blood,but the significance was to be placed in the Lamb slaughtered in Passover,and that JESUS Himself was that Lamb.No passover lamb would be acceptable that year.He died in place of the Lamb,although one was offered anyway by the traditional Jews.

It is almost impossible for any of us no matter the persuasion to comprehend how Jesus through offering His bread and wine to the Apostles used that as the substitute for His own body and blood. It is quite obvious that the Apostles did not know what He was doing.

But it took the Spirit of God to reveal such to them,and we need that same revelation today.4-gvn,I basically understand both our communion and that of the Transubstantiation of the RCC,but I also believe that we need to focus more on the Person who laid down His life.Physical and spiritual realities mean little if we do not appreciate why Christ offered Himself,and the Power of His Cross in our lives.

The whole church or body of Christ needs a Baptism in the Holy Spirit to understand and come to more realities about His Suffering,crucifixion,death and resurrection.But for now we have the most profound simplicity in the elements of bread and wine to bring us to the reality of His body and blood.
Free Mind

Pinellas Park, FL

#412487 Dec 31, 2012
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Anytime,Christians sin we bring shame to the Cross of Christ,as we continue to rebel against His provision for us to His Victory over sin and death.I state this Free Mind,because many are the sins of all affiliations in Christianity,and you could say we all make Jesus look like a buffoon.
No doubt that child molestation is so grevious,and a physical assault on the most vulnerable should require incarceration,not just a slap on the hand,and or a transfer to another church or parish.
I have talked with Christians from many types of evangelical churches and asked them what they do when a pedophile is discovered in their midst.Very rarely is that person kept in the denomination or just transferred.Most of the time the police are allowed to enter into the situation,the person is arrested.That is how the authorities find out,from the church itself.Sad but the people realize that once a child is violated,there is no turning back or hiding the perpetrator from his being punished for his c r i m e.
We do not deny that pastors and other church workers have been predators in the various crimes of such,the pain and shame is so bad that we realize it is better to face the situation,and Let God be judge.No one wants to see a pastor or church worker arrested,tried and put in prison,but when they violate a child they deserve it.
I agree that a Cover up in any case is terrible,but I also understand the magnitude of trouble when one church system in particular has to deal with many perpetrators,not just a few.No doubt that a given Bishop knows that complaints are throughout his parish,not just one church,or one priest.Not of course that cover-up or transfer is an option.Many Bishops must feel that they must keep the pandora's box closed when dealing with one case at a time.
I understand your continuing to bring up the scandal,we all want to get Catholics to realize that the scandal is a deep flaw within the whole Catholic Church system.It is a chasm of an unfilled void in the Catholic Church that its people are not willing to confront head on.
The present pope is doing something which is better than nothing.But I believe that it is a deep flaw and something that speaks against the celibate hiearchy of the RCC.All through history the celibacy of the Roman Church has had pedophilia as a grave sin within their ranks.It is not just in this century!
The long-term institutional cover-up is understandable..... because it confirms that Jesus does NOT GUIDE this church in any special manner as to morals.

The irony is that the institutional cover-up tells us more than the individual sins combined.
Free Mind

Pinellas Park, FL

#412488 Dec 31, 2012
The institutional cover-up tells us more about the RCC's one-true claim -- than the all the individual sins combined.

BUSTED!!!!!!!!!!

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