Religions have a completely different belief system that does not originate from God to begin with,but man's search for God.Christianity is God's Hand reaching out to human kind,along with Judaism.The world sees Christianity as religion,and labels it as such,but God reaching down to Man is the faith In Christ and trusting in His Salvation,and Believing on His Name. Each prot denomination is not a seaparate religion,but all part of Chriatianity,along with Catholicism.I am a Christian because I follow Christ,you the same,your church affiliation and mine can easily stear us away from Christ,and we could very well become religious,rather than born of His Spirit. If you want religion that is your choice,I'll choose Christ as my Savior,thank you!If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.
If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.
If you are a member of the Churches of Christ your church began near the beginning of the 19th century in New England. Abner Jones, Barton Stone and Alexander Campbell were some of the most well known originators of your religion.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as "Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.
If you are a Seventh Day Adventist, Mrs. Ellen Gould White inaugurated your group in 1860.
If you are a believer at the Vineyard Chrstian Fellowship, your denomination was started by Ken Guillickson and Keith Green in Santa Monica, California in 1974.
If you are a member of Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith began your congregation in Costa Mesa, California in 1975.
If you are Catholic, you know that your church was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.
#412450 Dec 30, 2012
#412451 Dec 30, 2012
However we must be thankful that the Bible was compiled and distributed even though with much resistance.The Bible is not a book of affiliation,but God's inspiredW o r d,and it is spiritually discerned.No group has claim to it,but we all can benefit with humility from its great history and its Divine Roots.When I read the Word,I do not consider the Book to be Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox,but a WORD from the Living God,Inspired into Jewish Men,including one Gentile(Luke).
There is nothing denominational or that of an organization religious system.We are all subject to its Content not vice versa!
#412452 Dec 30, 2012
Than why is the RCC so different from the Believers who were in Rome at the time of Paul?
#412453 Dec 30, 2012
Your last sentence shows how ignorant Catholics think we all are.The RCC ruled over Europe with an IRON Fist,it stands to reason that any public individuals were being controled by the RC clergy who delegated the proceedings of any given Inquisitional court in those times.No public peoples living in those times completely acted on their own outside of the Church to exercise Inquisitional court on thsoe deemed heretics.
#412454 Dec 31, 2012
Why don't you list them one by one? It must be put in writing,so we can see it for ourselves as People of the Book,it is important that we know our changes we made from generation to generation.In other words Clay,be specific!
#412455 Dec 31, 2012
I think you know its not the only thing. I'm not sure why you guys continue on with this false teaching, when its clear from scripture itself its not the only thing.
How do you explain that Pauls letter was written at a time when the New Testament wasn't even written? hmmm.
If scripture is the only thing, why did Christ wait for 400 yrs for His followers to have a clear set? hmmm
#412456 Dec 31, 2012
The Apostle Paul says there is something more. TRADITIONS by word of mouth.
You say 'sorry Paul, there is no traditions by word of mouth. We have the Bible that's enough'
And now look what you all have done! Do we need anyone data to show how sola scripture is false?
#412457 Dec 31, 2012
Get real Pad. We cover these changes everyday.
Start with the Holy Eucharist...
The first Protestants denied Christ in the Eucharist.. this was clearly taught by the Apostles and their disciples
Then they added the word 'alone' to Rom 3:28 to invent 'faith alone'.
They removed 7 books from the old testament.. thus siding with the Jews of 100 AD and not Christians of 33 AD.
Then they added Sola scripture, which was unheard of before then. In fact, no evidence shows it was ever taught by Christ nor His Apostles.
But these first Protesters understood the sacred teachings of things like, Mary's ever virginity, water Baptism.
And things used for worship... like statues, paintings and other artwork.
A couple generations after the first Protesters, things really took off. Born agains removed water baptism; said Mary had a bunch of children; said Mary is sleeping in the ground; and everything keeps evolving Pad. It won't stop because you guys don't recognize an authority to stop you!
Your grandkids will practice an entirely different Christianity than you!
When one looks at the chronology of Protestantism, you can easily recognize a military type attack by Satan and his minions. He started with a carefully laid out plan that is still in the works. We can see the hatred forming in so-called Christians on here. We can see the slander and lies they rely on just to teach their faith. It all reeks
of the devil.
#412458 Dec 31, 2012
Scary stuff here..........Can we all agree on the 10 Commandments? Instead of studying the Bible and getting so many different interpretations, maybe if we focused on these.......and studied them...maybe ......give a person some hope and peace of mind???
Probably not.........that would be too simple.
Since: Jul 09
#412459 Dec 31, 2012
I am confused. When I quote from the OT, I am told that those laws of god's are no longer enforced, but the 10C's are in the OT!
Also, not many christians follow the 10C's! They don't even try. Oh sure, they may not go out and kill anyone, but they have no problem eating a few grapes in the grocery store. They have no problem fudging their taxes.
When is the sabbath and how should it be kept? Not too many christians follow that one!
Number 2: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Do you have any pictures or statues in your house or church?
Once you christians start taking the 10C seriously, maybe the rest of us would... No, not really.
#412460 Dec 31, 2012
Why do you ignore our ACTUAL beliefs?
You're not allowed to define Apostolic succession for us. Its our belief. We get to define it.
The teachings went thru 265 Popes so far.
But the Popes themselves were ALL SINNERS. Every single one of them.
Our Lord protected the doctrine and dogma from error and the teachings Magistrium of the Church will always be without error in teachings because of this.
#412461 Dec 31, 2012
Did you just identify yourselves as "People of The Book"?
That's a heck of a title Pad.
I would advise you all to get together and come up with a unified understanding of The Book. This would be the responsible thing to do, right?
You guys don't venture deep enough into scripture to call yourselves that. You barely scratch the surface and pretty much ignore the Old Testament... because of that, you don't understand things like the Eucharist and the Passover; the sacrificial Lamb pertaining to the Lamb of God.
The Jews understood the importance of partaking in the sacrificial Lamb. They consumed it.
Christ is the Lamb of God.
Now do you see the importance of The Mass and partaking in the Eucharist? You see why The Old Testament and New, flow together?
#412462 Dec 31, 2012
They claim that Jesus demands no accountability. None. Zero.
Silly -- the supposed teacher of "perfect morals" accepts zero accountability for itself.
The ONLY reason the Pope apologized to the world for the largest child sex abuse cover-up in history was NOT because it was right.
Nope, the Vatican was caught red-handed in its lies -- thanks to among other things -- a police raid on a Bishops Conference in Belgium.
How does anyone make sense of Jesus requiring a police raid before guiding his supposed church to tel the truth?
It makes no sense and Jesus comes out looking like a buffoon.
#412464 Dec 31, 2012
How would Jesus guide His one-true church during the decades long child sex-abuse scandal?
1... Would Jesus have His Church confront the issue head-on once the first evidence emerged and His earthly vicar (the Pope) first became aware -- thus saving the souls of countless children?
2.... Would Jesus guide His church to cover-up the child abuse for decades longer, guide His church to use diplomatic immunity in order to avoid giving evidence and answering questions, and only have His church admit the truth after a police raid in Belgium seized many boxes of secret documents?
OK kids -- how much do you know about Jesus?
Reality 101 -- sorry Catholics-in-denial -- Jesus is not OK with child rape.
Sorry Catholics, but Jesus would not honor any Apostle who facilitated HUNDREDS of such crimes.
(Catholics respond; "Cardinal Law good -- the nuns are the problem, the nuns are the problem.")
#412465 Dec 31, 2012
1... The RCC wants us to judge them by their words.
2... Jesus wants us to judge them by their deeds.
Question: Whose advice is correct?
Since: Jul 09
#412466 Dec 31, 2012
Here's how that works!
Rule 1: Trust what god says.
Rule 2: Unless you like what jesus said better.
Rule 3: If you like what paul said better than the other two, then follow paul.
Rule 4: You can switch between the three anytime you like, even in mid sentence.
Of course, everyone wants to be judged by words! They are easy to produce!
#412467 Dec 31, 2012
FIRST of all thank you for responding,and giving a list,all things that have been haggled over and over,and you were specific,I commend you for that.
I read your other post.Again Clay thank you.I hope you have a good New Year,it is really something we made it to 2013.I noticed hojo has not been here for awhile,it seems he probably needs to take a rest from it all,as I am sure he was quite exhausted from continuing his never ending proclamation of the ONE TRUE APOSTOLIC CHURCH ,that Jesus Christ started,the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
All Evangelicals with the exception of those who are Roman Catholic and some in the Orthodox adhere to this list:
1. The Bible is the inerrant Word of God,the Confirmation of Faith,Hope and Love.
2. The Bible is the Book that written today stops grave heresies in their track.
3. To worship God is to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth,that is we are to be born of His Spirit,and the Truth is Jesus Christ(The Way,The Truth,and the Life).
4. We trust in the Cross of our Lord Jesus who defeated sin and death through His terrible crucifixion,death and Resurrection.We can apply what Jesus DID to our own struggle with the rudiments and power of Sin in the individual and corporate membership of His Body.
5. In discovering the Word as being Spiritually discerned Evangelicals know that walking with Christ unravels the power of Satan in our lives,and awakens us to the Risen and Victorious Savior who is our EXAMPLE.The Apocrypha by the way does not add to the Christ,as the New Testament is sufficient in expounding on Christ. Sirach and Wisdom are noble writings,and we can enrich our own souls with such.Sirach has lengthy segments on useless statues of deities and the like.The Old Testament is of course the greatest source in comparing the Hebrews to our believers today,and their journey t o the Kingdom of the Father.
6.We have Communion,and it is not just some quick fast food mindset,but a time of deep comtemplation into the DEATH
of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7.Baptism has not changed one iota from the first century Church, we baptize new converts to Christ,following the Biblical pattern,Infant baptism is not biblical,baptizing men and women who repent of their sin and enter the community of Christ are baptized,Biblical to the CORE.
8. Our clergy is mentioned in the New Testament,ministers,pastors,de acons or elders,our services are the simple form you see in Corinthians as organized by the Apostle Paul himself.We have teachers,and those who trust the Lord for healing and miracles,as the Scripture by the way states in the list of clergy and the practices of.All in the Epistles.Some Evangelicals have apostles, and some have bishops.I agree with you that it does not follow the Biblical pattern not to have bishops,of course many evangelcals use the word Superintendant rather than Bishop.No doubt a move to not identify with the Catholic office of Bishop.
9. Although we have beautiful artwork,and there are pictures of Christ in many churches,we generally and unanomously abhor the use of statues.
10. We abhor the formation of a celibate clergy,because the Lord never instituted such.
#412468 Dec 31, 2012
All Christians and Jews are the People of the Book, Clay,so don't panic over the title,we all deserve it because we all adhere to it,the Catholic Church adheres to the Bible as well,don't you consider yourself under that same banner?People of the Book.
#412469 Dec 31, 2012
"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Anytime,Christians sin we bring shame to the Cross of Christ,as we continue to rebel against His provision for us to His Victory over sin and death.I state this Free Mind,because many are the sins of all affiliations in Christianity,and you could say we all make Jesus look like a buffoon.
No doubt that child molestation is so grevious,and a physical assault on the most vulnerable should require incarceration,not just a slap on the hand,and or a transfer to another church or parish.
I have talked with Christians from many types of evangelical churches and asked them what they do when a pedophile is discovered in their midst.Very rarely is that person kept in the denomination or just transferred.Most of the time the police are allowed to enter into the situation,the person is arrested.That is how the authorities find out,from the church itself.Sad but the people realize that once a child is violated,there is no turning back or hiding the perpetrator from his being punished for his c r i m e.
We do not deny that pastors and other church workers have been predators in the various crimes of such,the pain and shame is so bad that we realize it is better to face the situation,and Let God be judge.No one wants to see a pastor or church worker arrested,tried and put in prison,but when they violate a child they deserve it.
I agree that a Cover up in any case is terrible,but I also understand the magnitude of trouble when one church system in particular has to deal with many perpetrators,not just a few.No doubt that a given Bishop knows that complaints are throughout his parish,not just one church,or one priest.Not of course that cover-up or transfer is an option.Many Bishops must feel that they must keep the pandora's box closed when dealing with one case at a time.
I understand your continuing to bring up the scandal,we all want to get Catholics to realize that the scandal is a deep flaw within the whole Catholic Church system.It is a chasm of an unfilled void in the Catholic Church that its people are not willing to confront head on.
The present pope is doing something which is better than nothing.But I believe that it is a deep flaw and something that speaks against the celibate hiearchy of the RCC.All through history the celibacy of the Roman Church has had pedophilia as a grave sin within their ranks.It is not just in this century!
#412470 Dec 31, 2012
Denying that Christ came in the flesh is antichrist.If we believe that Jesus came to earth as God,but did not have a totally human body inherited from his mother Mary.we missed the Incarnation,and than we truly believe in gnoticism.
Nevertheless we evangelicals along with most Christians believe in the Incarnation,and the power of the Divine and Humanity of our Lord.He now sits at the right hand of His Father in glory,in a resurrected Body that includes both the physical and spiritual,because of the Incarnation.
I believe wholeheartedly that Jesus is the Lamb of God.He gave His life in total humility,He could have called ten thousand angels to destroy and set Him free from the hands of angy evil men seeking to kill Him.
But He did not,He became as an innocent precious lamb instead,and obedient unto death.It is in the death of this precious MAN and GOD,we have our being,and the possible victory over sin and death.May God ever reveal through His Spirit even more the mystery of His Son who gave Himself so freely.Sin cannot be tolerated by us,even though we all sin,for Jesus did not die in vain.
BUT let us be real here Clay,Jesus is not a lamb is He,He is not an animal.although His total attitude and obedience was as totally submissive as a precious little lamb.Everytime I see movies where Jewish priests are sacrificing lambs as in Jesus of Nazareth,and pictures on the story of Mary and Joseph, it really hits me about the lamb brought to the slaughter.
But Jesus is no more a lamb(animal) than He is the Lion or (animal) of Judah.Jesus is not literally a lamb,or is He literally a Lion.But yet Jesus is called the Lamb of God,and the Lion of Judah.
We use these terms to deepen our understanding of the obedient servant our Lord was in the Lamb(submissive and precious,tender),and the opposite,as the ferocious ruler of victory,and Power,and Majesty as the LION of Judah.Jesus as Lion,is typified to the King of the Jungle as it were,the Lion,which is known by all of humaity as the most ferocious and powerful of the wild cats,and with that glorious mane around his head,is king of the jungle.
Jesus before His death became the submissive lamb to the slaughter although not a real animal or lamb,and after His death and resurrection He is the powerful King who sits on the throne,typified as a LION of Judah,although not a real lion or animal in the jungle.
Jesus offered His body and blood in the death He so willingly and submissively gave for us.We cannot physically which is rooted in sin appreciate the magnitude of that sacrifice,but spiritually with His Spirit we can,and it becomes that spiritual nourishment and oasis from our sinful flesh and nature.Continued;
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