Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 573,585
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Clay

United States

#412405 Dec 30, 2012
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
So tell us exactly which of my points are not correct? Ummm?
Be specific. Are you saying Jesus has no role in the election of His earthly vicar?
Obviously, you cannot refute a single fact I present, so you call names and claim I "don't understand," blah, blah.
It's simple. I say Jesus has standards. You say Jesus has none.
You say Jesus would have allowed a child-abuser to remain as an Apostle. I say that's absurd.
What is there to understand, besides your whining and denial?
you said, "so tell us exactly which of my points are not correct...be specific"

Then, 5 lines later you said "you say Jesus would have allowed a child abuser to remain an Apostle"

Um Free, now do you finally see why you're an idiot?
I respond to you to much as it is. And I'm sure other Catholics are annoyed that I feed the ideological troll.
So ...I'll leave on that note. Mercy Christmas. Happy New Year. and go Vikings.
marge

Ames, IA

#412406 Dec 30, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
yes... But where does it say its the only thing?
What was Paul saying when he said,'Hold steadfast to your teachings, WHETHER BY WORD OF MOUTH OR LETTER?
why did Jesus wait 1500 yrs to reveal sola scripture to us?
It says 'thoroughly furnished'.

what does thoroughly furnished mean to you?
marge

Ames, IA

#412407 Dec 30, 2012
StarC wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree!
I'm just saying, if it were not for the first Christians called Catholics you would not have a bible. Be thankful that the Catholic kept the WORD alive for all those years before bibles were in circulation.
It says the first followers of the Way(Jesus) were first called Christians at Antioch.

Nothing about 'catholics', and so sad you take credit for the Bible which you don't follow.
Free Mind

Pinellas Park, FL

#412408 Dec 30, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
you said, "so tell us exactly which of my points are not correct...be specific"
Then, 5 lines later you said "you say Jesus would have allowed a child abuser to remain an Apostle"
Um Free, now do you finally see why you're an idiot?
I respond to you to much as it is. And I'm sure other Catholics are annoyed that I feed the ideological troll.
So ...I'll leave on that note. Mercy Christmas. Happy New Year. and go Vikings.


Thank you for being specific.

Your church claims -- through its actions -- that Jesus had no problem with so many Apostolic Successors looking the other way as Priests in their diocese were accused of child sex abuse.

If this was guided by Jesus, then obviously -- you say Jesus would have allowed a child abuser to remain an Apostle.

You cannot claim to be Jesus' "one true and only guided church," yet not act the role.

If your church is guided by Jesus, then it does Jesus' Will.

Yes or no?
ReginaM

Jackson, NJ

#412409 Dec 30, 2012
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't that make you feel ashamed Regina, that Jethro knows the Holy Scripture and interprets it better then you and the other catholic's on here. You lay claim to the Bible being a catholic book yet are so illitate of the teachings of Jesus. Regina you are being taught by people who don't know either, or if they do they are hiding it from you.
To get a full understanding of who Jesus was and is you must read the Bible in full, cover to cover, and more then once.
Alternate readings for today, The Feast of the Holy Family:

1Sm 1:20-22, 24-28
In those days Hannah conceived, and at the end of her term bore a son
whom she called Samuel, since she had asked the LORD for him.
The next time her husband Elkanah was going up
with the rest of his household
to offer the customary sacrifice to the LORD and to fulfill his vows,
Hannah did not go, explaining to her husband,
"Once the child is weaned,
I will take him to appear before the LORD
and to remain there forever;
I will offer him as a perpetual nazirite."

Once Samuel was weaned, Hannah brought him up with her,
along with a three-year-old bull,
an ephah of flour, and a skin of wine,
and presented him at the temple of the LORD in Shiloh.
After the boy's father had sacrificed the young bull,
Hannah, his mother, approached Eli and said:
"Pardon, my lord!
As you live, my lord,
I am the woman who stood near you here, praying to the LORD.
I prayed for this child, and the LORD granted my request.
Now I, in turn, give him to the LORD;
as long as he lives, he shall be dedicated to the LORD."
Hannah left Samuel there.

Ps 84:2-3, 5-6, 9-10.
R.(cf. 5a) Blessed are they who dwell in your house, O Lord.
How lovely is your dwelling place, O LORD of hosts!
My soul yearns and pines for the courts of the LORD.
My heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.
R. Blessed are they who dwell in your house, O Lord.
Happy they who dwell in your house!
Continually they praise you.
Happy the men whose strength you are!
Their hearts are set upon the pilgrimage.
R. Blessed are they who dwell in your house, O Lord.
O LORD of hosts, hear our prayer;
hearken, O God of Jacob!
O God, behold our shield,
and look upon the face of your anointed.
R. Blessed are they who dwell in your house, O Lord.

1 Jn 3:1-2, 21-24
Beloved:
See what love the Father has bestowed on us
that we may be called the children of God.
And so we are.
THE REASON THE WORLD DOES NOT KNOW US
IS THAT IT DID NOT KNOW HIM.
Beloved, we are God's children now;
what we shall be has not yet been revealed.
We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him,
for we shall see him as he is.

Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us,
we have confidence in God and receive from him whatever we ask,
because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
And his commandment is this:
we should believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ,
and love one another just as he commanded us.
Those who keep his commandments remain in him, and he in them,
and the way we know that he remains in us
is from the Spirit he gave us.

The Gospel reading from Luke 2:41-52 remains the same.

I'd suggest you read and meditate upon them if someone can lend you a bible. 1 John 3:1 is particularly relevant to Catholics as we've always been reviled by the world.

And don't forget, Christmas does not end until after vespers on January 13! We'll be making King Cakes in honor of the visit of the Magi to the Baby Jesus on January 6!
Free Mind

Pinellas Park, FL

#412410 Dec 30, 2012
If as church claims to be guided by Jesus....

... then we can assume that that church's actions are the Will of Jesus.

If not, then the church's claim of guidance by Jesus is absurd.

Question: Why do Catholics whine and complain that this assumption is wrong?

Please explain why Jesus would guide His supposed church in a manner contrary to His own Will?
Free Mind

Pinellas Park, FL

#412411 Dec 30, 2012
1... FACT: Jesus did not guide any church into a decades-long cover-up of child sex-abuse.

2... Proof: Jesus does not guide the RCC.

3... To claim that Jesus guides the RCC is an attack on the character and morality of Jesus.
chuck

Sunbury, OH

#412412 Dec 30, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
yes... But where does it say its the only thing?
What was Paul saying when he said,'Hold steadfast to your teachings, WHETHER BY WORD OF MOUTH OR LETTER?
why did Jesus wait 1500 yrs to reveal sola scripture to us?


Instruction in RIGHTEOUSNESS Clay.....INSTRUCTION in RIGHTEOUSNESS...what else do Christians need?
ReginaM

Jackson, NJ

#412413 Dec 30, 2012
Commentary for the Readings in the Extraordinary Form:
Sunday in the Octave of the Nativity
"Behold, this Child is destined for the fall and for the rise of many in Israel" (Gospel).

This prophecy that Jesus is also "a sign that shall be contradicted," indicates what we, too, may expect as "sons of God"; yet it strengthens our hope, if we but place ourselves daily under Mary's care; then the last words of the Gospel may also be applied to us: "the Child grew and became strong...full of wisdom."

Yes, we are the "sons" and heirs" of God, Whom we can call "Father," because of "His Son, born of a woman," Mary (Epistle). Hence, Jesus, our Brother, actually "leapt down from heaven...with beauty...with strength" (Introit), to "direct our actions" in His "Name"(Prayer).

In the Gradual we offer our "good word" of gratitude for the final victory. Then we will realize that Antichrists "who sought the Child's life are dead" (Communion Verse).

Excerpted from My Sunday Missal, Confraternity of the Precious Blood

Since: Nov 08

usa

#412414 Dec 30, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait second...are you saying you have shown the CC is not the true Church through Apostolic succession?
How on Earth did you do that?
I'm going to guess you did it by slander, propaganda and ignorance. The three virtues of Protestantism.
i did it through catholic history,in order to have true devine apostolic succession a person must be chosen by holy people agree? well that's not how it was done in a few cases here's one. "POPE
Benedict IX, born Theophylactus of Tusculum, is known mainly for two things: 1) he held office on three separate occasions, and 2) he is the only pope who ever sold the papacy (to his own godfather, of all people).

Benedict became pontiff at a very young age, thanks to the political prowess of his father, who had managed to get the papacy reserved ahead of time for his son. With little actual training or preparation that qualified him to act as pontiff, Benedict led a highly immoral life, and was accused of various rapes, adulteries, and murders. According to St. Peter Damian, Benedict was “a demon from hell in the disguise of a priest,” and his carousing eventually caused him to be forcefully expelled from Rome.

Benedict managed to regain his throne, but then – surprise, surprise!– he was sidetracked by a prospective marriage (to his cousin) and sold the papal chair for a significant amount of money to his godfather, a priest who named himself Pope Gregory VI. His later repentance and attempt to resume his position created quite a controversy, forcing the German King Henry III to intervene. Benedict was subsequently excommunicated from the church.

“His life as a pope,” wrote Pope Victor III,“was so vile, so foul, so execrable, that I shudder to think of it.”

JETHRO:take note " his father, who had managed to get the papacy reserved ahead of time for his son." jethro: this suggests the chair was obviously bought for him,so how can you have true succession? it's a joke.
chuck

Sunbury, OH

#412415 Dec 30, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
yes... But where does it say its the only thing?
What was Paul saying when he said,'Hold steadfast to your teachings, WHETHER BY WORD OF MOUTH OR LETTER?
why did Jesus wait 1500 yrs to reveal sola scripture to us?
Righteous means free from guilt or sin which is given by God. The Bible says it can train us in RIGHTEOUSNESS and your argument is where does it say it's the only thing ....really Clay??

You are caught up in keeping your man made rules.....

Since: Nov 08

usa

#412416 Dec 30, 2012
Free Mind wrote:
1... FACT: Jesus did not guide any church into a decades-long cover-up of child sex-abuse. 2... Proof: Jesus does not guide the RCC. 3... To claim that Jesus guides the RCC is an attack on the character and morality of Jesus.
decades?? try centuries, Pope Julius III (1487 – 1555)had a child lover,he adopted him as his nephew to make it look good, but truth is he was his bed time boy.the boys name was
Innocenzo.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#412417 Dec 30, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll tell you what. You give me chapter and verse that says the books of the New Testament are all that's revealed about Jesus and His teaching.
fool.
Why don't you tell us what you know about Jesus and His teachings APART from the scriptures. And perhaps you might at least act like a christian and cease with the childish name calling.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#412418 Dec 30, 2012
The New Testament records the history of the church from approximately A.D. 30 to approximately A.D. 90. In the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries, history records several Roman Catholic doctrines and practices among early Christians. Is it not logical that the earliest Christians would be more likely to understand what the Apostles truly meant? Yes, it is logical, but there is one problem. Christians in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries were not the earliest Christians. Again, the New Testament records the doctrine and practice of the earliest Christians…and, the New Testament does not teach Roman Catholicism.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#412419 Dec 30, 2012
What is the explanation for why the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century church began to exhibit signs of Roman Catholicism?

The answer is simple – the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century (and following) church did not have the complete New Testament. Churches had portions of the New Testament, but the New Testament (and the full Bible) were not commonly available until after the invention of the printing press in A.D. 1440. The early church did its best in passing on the teachings of the apostles through oral tradition, and through extremely limited availability to the Word in written form. At the same time, it is easy to see how false doctrine could creep into a church that only had access to the Book of Galatians, for example. It is very interesting to note that the Protestant Reformation followed very closely after the invention of the printing press and the translation of the Bible into the common languages of the people. Once people began to study the Bible for themselves, it became very clear how far the Roman Catholic Church had departed from the church that is described in the New Testament.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#412420 Dec 30, 2012
Scripture never mentions using "which church came first" as the basis for determining which is the "true" church. What it does teach is that one is to use Scripture as the determining factor as to which church is preaching the truth and thus is true to the first church. It is especially important to compare Scripture with a church's teaching on such core issues as the full deity and humanity of Christ, the atonement for sin through His blood on Calvary, salvation from sin by grace through faith, and the infallibility of the Scriptures. The “first church” and “one true church” is recorded in the New Testament. That is the church that all churches are to follow, emulate, and model themselves after.
ReginaM

Jackson, NJ

#412421 Dec 30, 2012
Where does the New Testament claim for itself what you claim for it, that it is the only source of God’s word and the only authority binding on the souls of men?# Yes, it is binding, but where do you find in sola Scriptura that the Bible as we have it today, is the only binding authority? Doesn’t Jesus give the apostles binding authority in both Matthew 16:19 and 18:18. Does your fundamentalist tradition allow you to accept these verses? Or does your “grid” of private judgment and “Baptist” customs, filter out the Lord’s intent when He gave authority to His Church (the apostles as the foundation; Eph. 2:20) to bind and to loose?
truth

Perth, Australia

#412422 Dec 30, 2012
Don't use God name in vain.
Creator created you on own image.
Creator of everything..don't let down others with your story..he is creator of visible and not invisible.
For light for your human beneficiary you can used your natural ability..
svica=light =element lithium.
http://www.google.com.au/search...

imali ista u tim vasim glavama sadite tikve svaki dan pa vam se razbijaju od glavu..lijepo uzmes malo kamencica i zacrtaj..e evo mog mrginja odavde dovde..poslije ce biti skuplje nego zlato.
chuck

Ashburn, VA

#412423 Dec 30, 2012
2Tim 3:16

Teaching - scripture provides the comprehensive and complete body of divine truth necessary for life and godliness.

reproof - scripture exposes sin that can be dealt with through repentance.

training in RIGHTEOUSNESS- scripture provides positive training in godly behavior.

****Catholics say God Word is not enough for the Christian. What else is needed?
ReginaM

Jackson, NJ

#412424 Dec 30, 2012
Someone wrote a friend of mine asserting that 2 Timothy 3:16 proved that Scripture alone was all we needed. The famous passage reads,“All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

My friend responded:
No Catholic, of course, disagrees with these verses, or with any verses of Sacred Scripture. Of course Scripture is profitable! We Catholics see it as one of the three pillars of authority for the Christian (the other two being Sacred Tradition and the Magisterim — the teaching authority of the Church).

But Protestants unhappily, sometimes, reading into this text what they want to see, and more than it asserts.

Imagine you are a soldier and on your first day you are told:“The Army Teaching Manual is given by inspiration of the experts, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in the life of a soldier: That the soldier may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all a soldier needs to do.”

Would you understand that to mean that the soldier no longer needs ranked officers, a drill sergeant for training him, weaponry, ammunition, armour, communications equipment, etc.? Saying that X is profitable or necessary and that X helps one become thoroughly furnished for something doesn’t say at all that Y is therefore not profitable or necessary and that Y helps one become thoroughly furnished for something.

And how can Protestants square their reading of 2 Timothy 3:16-17 with Ephesians 4:11-12, which reads:

“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.”

According to these verses, what is needed for the perfecting of the saints are the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers! How could this possibly be if all we need is the “Bible alone”?

Furthermore we are informed by James … But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.. Would you suggest that patience is sufficient!(1:4).

Game, set, match …. I think. The Bible was never meant to stand alone. It was given by God, through the pens of men under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and it took hundreds of years before the Church discerned and determined which books belonged in the New Testament.

And it was not Scripture alone which was the principle of the early Christians as we can see from the Bible itself,“Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle”(2 Thess. 2:15).

Notice also 2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first,no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of Truth.
http://www.catholic-convert.com/2010/10/04/is...

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Pope Benedict XVI Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Was Obama right about the Crusades and Islamic ... 2 hr bmz 1,989
United House of Prayer for All People: Bishop's... (Apr '08) Thu Cultastic 8,909
Saudi effort to promote open society abroad in ... Feb 23 jinxi 3
9 Historical Events That Occurred on Christmas Day Feb 21 cupcake 1
Pope says Catholics must practice a responsible... Feb 20 amc 4
Episcopal parish to join Catholic Church (Jun '11) Feb 19 how g 4
What Divides Catholics and Protestants? (Apr '08) Feb 19 Jaimie 83,954
More from around the web