Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

[Chuck]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
No. None of the protestants I know up here presume to make that judgement about another Christian. And yes, the protestants I know consider Catholics as fellow Christians.

Also, James does not judge anyone one either. He says faith without works is dead. If your lifestyle doesn't reflect your faith you are spiritually dead. You do not have the faith that saves because your lifestyle shows you don't.

James is not adding works to salvation. He is saying if you claim to have faith, it should be apparent in your lifestyle because we both know it is Christ that works through Christians.

[Michael]

New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:

<quoted text>
Man, you seem to have the future account all wrapped up.
How did you find out this information?
I think you are making things up.

They all make stuff up. Some say Jesus talks to them. Others claim Mary is helping them with other problems in their lives. Too bad for everyone else in our world who doesn't get this personal attention. What a shame!

[Anthony MN]

Chuck wrote:

<quoted text>
So if you claim to have faith in Christ and your lifestyle reflects the complete opposite no one would question your faith?

Yes, they would question my faith.

[Chuck]

Truth wrote:

<quoted text>
When Christians do good deeds, it says...
"Let the beauty of Jesus be SEEN in you!"

Paul:

Romans 15:18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed, 19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God

**Do we accomplish good works or does Christ work through us to accomplish good works? HUGE difference

[Michael]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
Would you say that pasting salacious stories about Catholics on this board is an example of 'good deeds/works'?

Anthony says.....

...Would you say that pasting salacious stories about Catholics on this board.

Michael says......Salacious stories!! The catholic church leaders themselves have become "FAMOUS" at HIDING salcious stories..........until they got caught!

APOSTOLIC SECRECY, and salacious hidden stories are core values of catholicism.

You know that Anthony.

[confrinting with the word]

who="Anthony MN"
Would you say that pasting salacious stories about Catholics on this board is an example of 'good deeds/works'?

**********

Thanks. I needed to look that word up, anyway. It comes from the same 'root' as 'salt'...which happens to be healing, cleansing, and brings out the flavor of truth, as well as food.

I haven't posted anything but the truth.
KayMarie

[Chuck]

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me,‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me,‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them,‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

***no different than what James says. These folks do not have faith that saves.

[Anthony MN]

Chuck wrote:

<quoted text>
Also, James does not judge anyone one either. He says faith without works is dead. If your lifestyle doesn't reflect your faith you are spiritually dead. You do not have the faith that saves because your lifestyle shows you don't.
James is not adding works to salvation. He is saying if you claim to have faith, it should be apparent in your lifestyle because we both know it is Christ that works through Christians.

Actually St. James doesn't say 'lifestyle', although one could make the case that living in an adulterous relationship by divorcing and re-marrying is in fact a chosen 'lifestyle'. He says 'works'. Doing good deeds...helping the poor, feeding the hungry, etc.

Yes, St. James is 'adding' works. He asks rhetorically "What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he has faith, but has not works? Shall faith be able to save him?" The answer is of course no.

[Truth]

confrinting with the word wrote:

who="Truth"
God has NOT stopped making DISCIPLES NOT apostles....
No one today qualifies to be an apostle....KayMarie...
**********
That is like saying that our students will stay in elementary/middle school forever. We don't make graduates any more.
KayMarie

You do know the differences/qualifications between apostles and disciples???

[Chuck]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, they would question my faith.

Is that any different to what James says?

[Truth]

confrinting with the word wrote:

who="Truth"
God has NOT stopped making DISCIPLES NOT apostles....
No one today qualifies to be an apostle....KayMarie...
**********
That is like saying that our students will stay in elementary/middle school forever. We don't make graduates any more.
KayMarie

In other words, KayMarie, as an apostle,(if you believe you are an apostle or think they exist today) do you/anyone else have the POWER to raise the dead???

As an apostle, do you/anyone else have the POWER to heal the sick???

[confrinting with the word]

confrinting with the word wrote:

who="Truth"
God has NOT stopped making DISCIPLES NOT apostles....
No one today qualifies to be an apostle....KayMarie...
**********
That is like saying that our students will stay in elementary/middle school forever. We don't make graduates any more.
KayMarie

~~~

To qualify the fact that there are apostles today from/n the Bible

Go to ...and read...

King James Translation

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Eph 4:11 ===> And he gave some,==< apostles;<== and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

________

Douay..Translation

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended above all the heavens: that he might fill all things.

Eph 4:11 ---> And he gave some -->apostles,<--- and some prophets, and other some evangelists, and other some pastors and doctors:

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the word of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Eph 4:13 Until we all meet into the unity of faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the age of the fulness of Christ:

Eph 4:14 That henceforth we be no more children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the wickedness of men, by cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive.

Eph 4:15 But doing the truth in charity, we may in all things grow up in him who is the head, even Christ:

Compare them

[Michael]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, they would question my faith.

You aren't even following how Jesus lived or what he expected.

.....Jesus never claimed or allowed absolute obedience to the law to trump the pastoral needs of the person standing before him.

.. Jesus as you were taught defied religious ritual for the sake of healing the suffering. As you were taught, He called everyone ..... rich man, tax collector, woman, drunkard, prostitute -- to his table, no loyalty tests, no good deeds,no good works, or confessions were required.

Are you going off into a different direction than what the core values of what you believe this man was really all about?

[Chuck]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually St. James doesn't say 'lifestyle', although one could make the case that living in an adulterous relationship by divorcing and re-marrying is in fact a chosen 'lifestyle'. He says 'works'. Doing good deeds...helping the poor, feeding the hungry, etc.
Yes, St. James is 'adding' works. He asks rhetorically "What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he has faith, but has not works? Shall faith be able to save him?" The answer is of course no.

"if a man say he has faith, but has not works? Shall faith be able to save him?"

***If a man says he has faith in Christ and he really doesn't, won't it eventually be apparent to the folks around him. He's not truly saved. No different than waht Jesus said," I never knew you"..

[Michael]

The Roman Catholic Church is fast becoming a refuge for those who are afraid of the world. The church that, 50 years ago, called itself to be immersed in the modern world is instead shrinking away from society, refusing to engage in a meaningful, pastoral way with the human struggles and needs of our day.

50 years ago THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH called itself to be immersed into the modern world. Throw out the old, start anew. Today instead of following that path they set, this church administration is shrinking away from society, refusing to engage in meaningful, human struggles and needs of our day.

Is the catholic church in chaos? Nearly 1,000 priests in america, over 47,000 nuns in america are totally confused because they have no clear direction the church is going in. These brothers and sisters of the church were all taught the VATICAN II way, now this Pope wants to throw it all out the window because of his "hardassed theology" that the church is losing control.

50 years ago the church was a breath of fresh air, today the leaders have cowered away from what they have accomplished in the past half century.

A church in total confusion!

[Hermeneutics Smutics]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
Brad! I mean Herme.....says..
.........I agree that there is no empirical evidence for the existence of God.
Michael says......If you honestly believe their is no empirical evidence for the existance of God, then why not explore your reasoning for saying so, instead of you blindly believing their is a God?
If you have no evidence in what you believe, then why do you believe it? Because of Family tradition?
Is that a good reason? I wouldn't think so.

Great question there,Cowboy Bob.Sounds like I am a blowhard but I truly have read through the philosophers from Socrates to Sartre.I have read the pro and con arguments re God.I then moved to theology.(Remember this is over a lifetime) I read theologians of various denominations. I concluded that faith is just as strong an instrument to know God and reason is an instrumenty to know philosophical Truth.This was not based on emotion.It is analytical thinking. Reason is a poor poor instrument to know God. So is Science. Science cannot explore the spiritual dimension.This is the best way can explain it.A long time ago a dude named Justin Martyr said philosophers have part of the Truth but to fully know the Truth you have to turn to Christianity.The Cappadocians saw it the same way.So does little ole me.

[Truth]

Chuck wrote:

<quoted text>
Paul:
Romans 15:18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed, 19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God
**Do we accomplish good works or does Christ work through us to accomplish good works? HUGE difference

"Let The Beauty of Jesus Be Seen In Me."

By my....what???

pure life....

pure speech....

living sacrifice....and,

charitable deeds.(works)

Did Jesus go out and do good things to and for others???

Galatians 6:10

10 Therefore, as we have opportunity,~~~~~let us do good to all people,~~~~~*especially* to those who belong to the family of believers.(Christians)

Hebrews 13:16

16 And [do not forget to do good and to share with others,[ for with ~~~~~such sacrifices God is pleased.~~~~~

Let the beauty of Jesus be seen in me,
All His wonderful passion and purity.
May His Spirit divine all my being refine
Let the beauty of Jesus be seen in me.

When your burden is heavy and hard to bear
When your neighbors refuse all your load to share
When you're feeling so blue, Don't know just what to do
Let the beauty of Jesus be seen in you.

When somebody has been so unkind to you,
Some word spoken that pierces you through and through.
Think how He was beguiled, spat upon and reviled,
Let the beauty of Jesus be seen in you

[[[From the dawn of the morning till close of day,]]]
~~~In example in deeds and in all you say,~~~
***Lay your gifts at His feet, ever strive to keep sweet***
Let the beauty of Jesus be seen in you.

[confrinting with the word]

who="Chuck"
Paul:
Romans 15:18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed, 19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God
**Do we accomplish good works or does Christ work through us to accomplish good works? HUGE difference

**********
Apples and Apples, my friend. Yes, Christ works through us BY FAITH.

If He was not in us, we could not do any of the things that He did.

KayMarie

[Atemcowboy]

Truth wrote:

<quoted text>
God has NOT stopped making DISCIPLES NOT apostles....
No one today qualifies to be an apostle....KayMarie...

tell me Hank, acccording you to and your church(since you follow it and that is where your beleifs come from)what are your qualifications?
so while you are looking, I fouund this link, most of it I am in disagreement wirth since he like you ,is trying to disprove the Word of God.
Special Qualifications: The qualifications of the apostles are given in Acts 1:21-22 [21] Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,[22] Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
See All.... They must have been with Jesus during His earthly ministry (v.21), been baptized by John the Baptist (v.22), and been eyewitnesses of the resurrected Christ (v.22).
Paul was given an exemption on the first requirements but greatly emphasized his having been an eyewitness of the resurrected Christ –“And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time”(1Corinthians 15:8And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
"last of all he was seen of me"(SEE THAT)
a necessary qualification, you have to have seen Chrsit as Resurrected. I fit that description and my testimony is True(weather it is beleive or not is none of my concern).
also that person has to have been chosen(paul was called a"chosen vessel") at the age of 12, the greats in heaven sent my grandfather back to tell me that God had a job for me to do(THAT IS CHOSEN)AND IS UNIQUE in that ministers to Preach are "called "every day, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN(WHIHC IS THE CORRECT INTREPRETATION NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE LIKE MARGE THINKS.
YOU SAY THAT THEY HAVE must have power to lay hands on people and they receive the Holy Ghost. well Hank ,that occurs all of the time if YOU are in the right churches.(AND THAT IS ONE OF THE FEW THINGS THAT GIF AND I COULD AGREE ON).
NOW YOU CAN PROVIDE YOUR ARGUMENTS , LOL

[confrinting with the word]

who="Truth"
You do know the differences/qualifications between apostles and disciples???

**********

I know.

KayMarie