Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 549,035
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408813 Dec 12, 2012
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Acting like a child again...
IGNORED.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408814 Dec 12, 2012
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
And, we don't even have to look too closely to see your childish behavior....
Ignored.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408815 Dec 12, 2012
7th Day Catholics Rock wrote:
<quoted text>4gvn I read this passage last night befor ebed time.
II Timothy Ch: 2 V: 3-7
Sorry 7th, not sure I understand the correlation.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#408816 Dec 12, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
Works do not determine our destiny... they determine our rewards.
READ WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT WORKS...
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master builder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest:
for the day shall declare it,
because it shall be revealed by fire; and
THE FIRE SHALL TRY EVERY MAN'S WORKS of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 IF THE MAN'S WORKS ABIDE,
which he hath built thereupon,
HE SHALL RECEIVE A REWARD.
1Co 3:15 IF ANY MAN'S WORK SHALL BE BURNED he shall suffer loss:
BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE.
"Go also to 1 Cor 3:11-17. This is another section that is squarely opposed to your view about rewards v. salvation. In this section, using metaphors, Paul explains that those who do good will be saved, and those who do evil will be condemned (the metaphors Paul uses are gold, silver v. wood, hay). There is a clear polarity between doing good which leads to salvation (v.14) and doing bad which leads to damnation (v.17). This is not about "less rewards."

Verse 15 poses another problem for you. Paul says that those who built with both materials will suffer loss but will still receive their reward. In order to receive the reward, the person must pass through fire. This fire purges the person of the defects which led to the bad works in the first place. The Greek for "suffer loss" refers to a punishment through expiation. In your theology, there is no place for a post-death punishment by fire process before a person is saved. This isn't about receiving "less rewards" because the person STILL receives the reward (which is salvation). Yet the saved person first receives a fiery expiation for their sins after their death.

Jesus also never teaches that "faith alone" leads to salvation. He always focuses on works, not as the basis of more rewards, but to obtain salvation. In fact, Jesus even says "by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned" (Matt 12:37). So you see, Rick, there is nothing about receiving salvation by "faith alone." The Bible is clear that we must add works to our faith to obtain salvation. As James says, we must be doers of the law, and not hearers only, deceiving ourselves. This is the teaching of the Fathers and the 2,000 year-old Catholic Church."

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/justificatio...

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#408817 Dec 12, 2012
LTM wrote:
Bible Verse Of the Day
16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Proverbs 6:16-19 (KJV)
www.Christ.com
YOU WERE SO QUICK TO JUMP ON ME OVER MY ALLEDGED ATTACKS ON ORVILLE THAT NEVER TOOK PLACE, WHY ARE YOU SO SILENT ON THIS PEVERT (4BDN)WHO JUST TALKS SO FILTHY TO HOJO ?

CAPS SO u CAN READ THEM WITH YOUR SUPPOSEDLY POOR EYESIGHT.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#408818 Dec 12, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text> What does that mean, Anthony? Obviously the term means something very different to us. Are there any other kind of Christians? Are all 'saved' persons, Christians? What do YOU mean by "saved Christians'?
OSAS is a false and dangerous doctrine. Not all who claim to be Christians will be saved.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408819 Dec 12, 2012
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>I was going to type a really biting insult but I will restrain myself. It is impossible to dialogue with you. t is impossible to debate with you. I have only so much time in this life and am sorry but cannot engage in a dialogue that is not a dialogue. I tried. I learn from dialogue with others here.I leaern from more study.Many of the questions you raise are answered by theology.I am sorry but there is no need to convince you.I wish you well.
Many times I have started to post something and the Holy Spirit has whispered in my ear,'don't do that'.
The Oracle

UK

#408820 Dec 12, 2012
JLDWolfe wrote:
Arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a chicken. No matter how good one is at chess, the chicken will simply knock all the pieces over, crap on the board, and strut around like it won.
This entire conversation is a bunch of chickens clucking over a fairy tail.
I know that pisses you off, so FORGIVE me ;)

Occasionally in life one comes across a quotation which makes one think "I wish I had said that". The foregoing is such a quotation. It is a positively brilliant observation.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408821 Dec 12, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; Eph. 2:8-9 - many Protestants err in their understanding of what Paul means by "works of the law” in his teaching on justification. Paul’s teaching that we are not justified by “works of the law” refer to the law of Moses or to any legal system that makes God our debtor. They do not refer to good works done in grace with faith in Christ. This makes sense when we remember that Paul's mission was to teach that salvation was also for the Gentiles who were not subject to the "works of the law." Here is the proof:
James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to Gal. 2:16 –“a man is not justified by works of the law,” and Rom. 3:20,28 –“no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.” James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself. This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works”(e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law”(which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 - Paul's phrase for "works of the law" in the Greek is "ergon nomou" which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent ("hrvt ysm") meaning "deeds of the law," or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use "ergon nomou." He uses "ergois agathois." Therefore, Paul’s "works of the law" and James' "works" are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.
Rom. 3:29 - Paul confirms that works of the law in this case refer to the Mosaic law by rhetorically asking "Or is God the God of the Jews only?" It does not mean "good works."
Rom. 4:9-17 - Paul provides further discussion that righteousness God seeks in us does not come from Mosaic law, but through faith. But notice that Paul also never says “faith alone.”
Rom. 9:31-32 - righteousness is pursued through faith, not works of the law. Again, "works of law" does not mean "good works."
Rom. 11:6,11 - justification is no longer based on "works" of the law, but on the grace of Christ. Why? Because salvation is also for the Gentiles.
Rom. 15:9-12 - Paul explains that Christ also saves the Gentiles. Therefore, "works of law" are no longer required.
More here; http://www.scripturecatholic.com/justificatio...
SO much for the 'FREE GIFT'. Yours ,you have to work,work, work for. And you have no idea,"How much work is enough"? You should be out beating the bushes trying to 'secure' your salvation. not here wasteing time. How are you doing so far? Are you on track this far? Have you done 'enough' good works for heaven 'for today'? And most importantly 'How do you know what (enough) is? No wonder you need to have a PURGATORY to fall back on.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#408822 Dec 12, 2012
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>you know me as Preston. I used this nick when I first came on here and I reverted back to it.
wanted to show people that I am a happily married man with a wonderful wife,
like you.
ATTEMCOWBOY says..... you know me as Preston!

....attemcowboy, Preston, who cares!!

You look just like LARRY KING!

marge

Ames, IA

#408823 Dec 12, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
"Go also to 1 Cor 3:11-17. This is another section that is squarely opposed to your view about rewards v. salvation. In this section, using metaphors, Paul explains that those who do good will be saved, and those who do evil will be condemned (the metaphors Paul uses are gold, silver v. wood, hay). There is a clear polarity between doing good which leads to salvation (v.14) and doing bad which leads to damnation (v.17). This is not about "less rewards."
Verse 15 poses another problem for you. Paul says that those who built with both materials will suffer loss but will still receive their reward. In order to receive the reward, the person must pass through fire. This fire purges the person of the defects which led to the bad works in the first place. The Greek for "suffer loss" refers to a punishment through expiation. In your theology, there is no place for a post-death punishment by fire process before a person is saved. This isn't about receiving "less rewards" because the person STILL receives the reward (which is salvation). Yet the saved person first receives a fiery expiation for their sins after their death.
Jesus also never teaches that "faith alone" leads to salvation. He always focuses on works, not as the basis of more rewards, but to obtain salvation. In fact, Jesus even says "by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned" (Matt 12:37). So you see, Rick, there is nothing about receiving salvation by "faith alone." The Bible is clear that we must add works to our faith to obtain salvation. As James says, we must be doers of the law, and not hearers only, deceiving ourselves. This is the teaching of the Fathers and the 2,000 year-old Catholic Church."
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/justificatio...
'for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

words, not works.

May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written, "THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS, AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED."

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#408824 Dec 12, 2012
who="Anthony MN"
Stirring up trouble again Kay?
A leopard can never change her spots.

**********
You can call me names, and accuse me of stirring up trouble...
But if I report a news item, I have stirred up trouble???
What is wrong with the truth?

:)
KayMarie
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408825 Dec 12, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; Eph. 2:8-9 - many Protestants err in their understanding of what Paul means by "works of the law” in his teaching on justification. Paul’s teaching that we are not justified by “works of the law” refer to the law of Moses or to any legal system that makes God our debtor. They do not refer to good works done in grace with faith in Christ. This makes sense when we remember that Paul's mission was to teach that salvation was also for the Gentiles who were not subject to the "works of the law." Here is the proof:
James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to Gal. 2:16 –“a man is not justified by works of the law,” and Rom. 3:20,28 –“no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.” James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself. This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works”(e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law”(which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 - Paul's phrase for "works of the law" in the Greek is "ergon nomou" which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent ("hrvt ysm") meaning "deeds of the law," or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use "ergon nomou." He uses "ergois agathois." Therefore, Paul’s "works of the law" and James' "works" are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.
Rom. 3:29 - Paul confirms that works of the law in this case refer to the Mosaic law by rhetorically asking "Or is God the God of the Jews only?" It does not mean "good works."
Rom. 4:9-17 - Paul provides further discussion that righteousness God seeks in us does not come from Mosaic law, but through faith. But notice that Paul also never says “faith alone.”
Rom. 9:31-32 - righteousness is pursued through faith, not works of the law. Again, "works of law" does not mean "good works."
Rom. 11:6,11 - justification is no longer based on "works" of the law, but on the grace of Christ. Why? Because salvation is also for the Gentiles.
Rom. 15:9-12 - Paul explains that Christ also saves the Gentiles. Therefore, "works of law" are no longer required.
More here; http://www.scripturecatholic.com/justificatio...
As has been stated repeatedly, if you believe this you are forced to be lieve that each 'good work' you do somehow contributes to the 'FINISHED' WORK OF JESUS ON THE CROSS. wHICH IS TO BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING LACKING in what Jesus did. We must somehow 'add to' that finished work. WE must 'earn' by OUR 'good works' what scripture says is Paid in Full. I truely feel sorry for anyone who believes this. It is not the GOSPEL of grace but 'another Gospel'.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408826 Dec 12, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Stirring up trouble again Kay?
A leopard can never change her spots.
Is her point not a legitimate one, Anthony? Should those types of facts be addressed and discussed? You seem to be implying that we should ignor any negative facts. Is that what you believe?
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#408827 Dec 12, 2012
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>if anyone notices my right hand, they can see the crooked fingers that I have mentioned before
atemcowboy...alias/AKA as PRESTON.....LARRY KING look-a-like.......says..

...if anyone notices my right hand, they can see the crooked fingers that I have mentioned before.

Michael says....

I guess you can't go 10 pin bowling, because you would never get your fingers lined up straight to fit into the holes. BUMMER!

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#408828 Dec 12, 2012
Mitt Romney's claim in a campaign ad that President Barack Obama "sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China" earned PolitiFact's "Lie of the Year," the site announced on Wednesday.

"The Jeep ad was brazenly false," Angie Drobnic Holan wrote in her analysis.

The Romney campaign ran the ad in the final weeks of the campaign, drawing sharp rebukes from the automakers and public condemnation from the Obama campaign.

Romney first claimed Jeep was moving to China in a late October campaign speech in Ohio, citing "reports," which he later identified in his ad as a story by Bloomberg News.

But Chrysler immediately rejected the claim, saying the company was reviewing adding production in China, not moving production out of the United States. Chrysler also noted that the Bloomberg story was misinterpreted.

It appeared that the false interpretation was initially made by the Washington Examiner's Paul Bedard, who wrote about the Bloomberg story Oct. 25. Bedard's claim was then circulated by the Drudge Report.

Democrats, including the Obama campaign, used Romney's decision to stand by the false claim against him, attacking Romney's honesty.

"After Romney's false claim of Jeep outsourcing to China, Chrysler itself has refuted Romney's lie," an announcer read in an Obama campaign ad that painted Romney as "wrong on Ohio jobs."

PolitiFact suggested Wednesday that the ad was partly responsible for Romney's loss.

"People often say that politicians don't pay a price for deception, but this time was different: A flood of negative press coverage rained down on the Romney campaign, and he failed to turn the tide in Ohio, the most important state in the presidential election," Holan wrote.

...

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#408829 Dec 12, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Many times I have started to post something and the Holy Spirit has whispered in my ear,'don't do that'.
so did He tell you to issue Jiohn a perverted invitation. I think not.

the bible is clear that the Holy Ghost will not live in an unclean vessel sucha r you are.

you arent fooling any person on her includidng yourself.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408830 Dec 12, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
James tells us that faith is faith and works are works. They are two separate entities, and must be coupled together to achieve salvation. Faith (a mental process) and works (an action) are required for salvation.
When James asks “Can his faith save him?,” the answer is a resounding NO. James is talking about salvation. The answer to the question is NO because we must add works to our faith. Works just don't flow automatically out of true believers. The Bible never says anything about false faith or saving faith. Faith may truly exist, but it is not enough to save us. Even the demons believe in Jesus and tremble. Remember, James was talking to "saved Christians" in his epistle. Yet James continues to warn them to avoid sin and do good, or they will lose their salvation. That is because their faith was not enough to save them.
Abraham is a perfect example. Even though he was justified in Genesis 15, God still required him to sacrifice his son (a "work") which justified him in Genesis 22. If Abraham would not have added this work to his faith, he would have fallen out of favor with God. Thus, James says that Abraham was justified by his works.
Faith and works are required for salvation. God accepts them when done in a system of grace. This means we don't view God as a debtor who owes us, but as a loving Father who will reward us out of His goodness. Neither our faith nor our works can please God outside of grace. The key distinction is law versus grace. We are saved by God's grace through faith and works, and not faith alone.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/justificatio...
But the fact is that 'ABRAHAM DID NOT SACRIFICE HIS SON', so the 'work' was not done. So the salvation was 'by FAITH'.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408831 Dec 12, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't believe the bible because the bible says we can leave Him.
Show me.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408832 Dec 12, 2012
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>YOU WERE SO QUICK TO JUMP ON ME OVER MY ALLEDGED ATTACKS ON ORVILLE THAT NEVER TOOK PLACE, WHY ARE YOU SO SILENT ON THIS PEVERT (4BDN)WHO JUST TALKS SO FILTHY TO HOJO ?
CAPS SO u CAN READ THEM WITH YOUR SUPPOSEDLY POOR EYESIGHT.
PERCY,PERCY, PERCY. Why do you continue with your lies? If you are not lying, show where I have talked 'filthy' to HOHO. I have never, and would never ask "May God find him a place in hell." No christian would. But you did with Billy Grahm.

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