Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

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The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#408793 Dec 12, 2012
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>==========
I have examined the issue of whether esus and th Apostles quoted from the APOCRYPHA/DEUTEROCANONICAL BOOKS.My conclusion is that the argument used to prove they quoted from these books is not a solid one.While Certain quotes from Matthew, Mark, etc can paralell to ome extent those books:1. you are corrct nthat these are not direct quotes 2.references can be drawn fronm these quotes to other Canonical Old Testament books.
An argument can be made either way.However the argument that my Churc or the Catholic Church would make for the Deutercanonical books, if it was based strictly on these referencs would not be a strong argument.
Herme good friend

The N.T. quotes of O.T., is not a basis of accepting the Deuterocanonical books....

If it were, then we would need to throw out, "Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon", since they are not quoted in the N.T....

Jesus, went to the Feast of the Dedication....what we now called Hannukah..., this was the defeat of Greco-Assyrian by the Maccabees....Fortunately, the Deuterocanonicals has I and II Maccabees. They of course have history and theology in them, and is the great final and solid statement by Jesus in the Temple, to the authorities that he is the Son of God.

It is a pity that Protestantism through out the Books of the Maccabees, they lost much of the linkage between Jesus and the latter part of Israel's history, and prophecy, that "the Gentiles will see the Savior of Israel...."(I Macc 4:11), and the continuation of the Hannukah....

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#408794 Dec 12, 2012
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>how about you chilling out. Hermi has just went thru a life threatening experience and we all are glad to have him back with us.
so for awhile keep your smart alec remarks to your self.
you wanna pick on someone try me.
Pick On? What are you, 12? So many keyboard tough guys Here!
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#408795 Dec 12, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>sHOW ME WHERE SCRIPTURE MAKES THAT DISTINCTION. And show me where in the scripture works are differentiated. Is salvation by works or by grace? What does the scripture say?
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; Eph. 2:8-9 - many Protestants err in their understanding of what Paul means by "works of the law” in his teaching on justification. Paul’s teaching that we are not justified by “works of the law” refer to the law of Moses or to any legal system that makes God our debtor. They do not refer to good works done in grace with faith in Christ. This makes sense when we remember that Paul's mission was to teach that salvation was also for the Gentiles who were not subject to the "works of the law." Here is the proof:

James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to Gal. 2:16 –“a man is not justified by works of the law,” and Rom. 3:20,28 –“no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.” James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself. This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works”(e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law”(which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:

Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 - Paul's phrase for "works of the law" in the Greek is "ergon nomou" which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent ("hrvt ysm") meaning "deeds of the law," or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use "ergon nomou." He uses "ergois agathois." Therefore, Paul’s "works of the law" and James' "works" are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.

Rom. 3:29 - Paul confirms that works of the law in this case refer to the Mosaic law by rhetorically asking "Or is God the God of the Jews only?" It does not mean "good works."

Rom. 4:9-17 - Paul provides further discussion that righteousness God seeks in us does not come from Mosaic law, but through faith. But notice that Paul also never says “faith alone.”

Rom. 9:31-32 - righteousness is pursued through faith, not works of the law. Again, "works of law" does not mean "good works."

Rom. 11:6,11 - justification is no longer based on "works" of the law, but on the grace of Christ. Why? Because salvation is also for the Gentiles.

Rom. 15:9-12 - Paul explains that Christ also saves the Gentiles. Therefore, "works of law" are no longer required.

More here; http://www.scripturecatholic.com/justificatio...
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#408796 Dec 12, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Well Hello POLLY. lol
Yes--and the TRUTH needs to be "parroted" over and over again, to bible only heretics like you, 4GVN who (are forever) trying and feed your "molded crackers" of "distorted and false interpretation of the bible" to Catholics on this forum--(who "know the TRUTH" of the Word of God and TRUE Church History.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#408797 Dec 12, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text> The bible does say that by faith(that is the word used. The word is alone, or by itself.) That is what is meant by faith alone. Not that the word alone is used. Any one who half way seeks to understand the biblical position would be able to understand this point. And I hav pointed it out many times before. My salvation was BOUGHT by the FINISHED (WORD) of Jesus at Calvery. BUT, you go ahead and keep trying to WORK your way to heaven. Good luck. Let me know when you have done enough to attain salvation.
James tells us that faith is faith and works are works. They are two separate entities, and must be coupled together to achieve salvation. Faith (a mental process) and works (an action) are required for salvation.

When James asks “Can his faith save him?,” the answer is a resounding NO. James is talking about salvation. The answer to the question is NO because we must add works to our faith. Works just don't flow automatically out of true believers. The Bible never says anything about false faith or saving faith. Faith may truly exist, but it is not enough to save us. Even the demons believe in Jesus and tremble. Remember, James was talking to "saved Christians" in his epistle. Yet James continues to warn them to avoid sin and do good, or they will lose their salvation. That is because their faith was not enough to save them.

Abraham is a perfect example. Even though he was justified in Genesis 15, God still required him to sacrifice his son (a "work") which justified him in Genesis 22. If Abraham would not have added this work to his faith, he would have fallen out of favor with God. Thus, James says that Abraham was justified by his works.

Faith and works are required for salvation. God accepts them when done in a system of grace. This means we don't view God as a debtor who owes us, but as a loving Father who will reward us out of His goodness. Neither our faith nor our works can please God outside of grace. The key distinction is law versus grace. We are saved by God's grace through faith and works, and not faith alone.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/justificatio...

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#408798 Dec 12, 2012
4GVN wrote:
The Roman Catholic Church decided that 'SOME' of the books of the Apocrypha belonged in the bible shortly after the beginning of the Protestant Reformation. In fact, the Catholic Council of Trent(A.D.1545-1563)canonized these books some 1500 years AFTER they were writen, largly as a reaction against the Protestant Reformation.
4GVN good friend

Protestant Bibles in English overall do not have the Deuterocanonicals. Though the KJV originally did have them.
Protestant Bibles in German today, do have Deuterocanonicals.

I remember as a child the KJV still had the Deuterocanonicals....

So when did the English decide to take them out, and when did they finally get them out?
Why do the Germans still keep them in?

By your logic, Protestants are even more messed up than the RCC about cannonization of the Bible to this day....
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#408799 Dec 12, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
News Item:
Despite 'war on Catholics,' faculty and staff at Catholic universities gave overwhelmingly to Obama
About ninety percent of faculty and administrators from America's top Catholic universities who contributed to presidential campaigns in 2012 gave to President Obama, a Campus Reform investigation has revealed.
KM
Stirring up trouble again Kay?

A leopard can never change her spots.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#408800 Dec 12, 2012
4GVN wrote:
When Jesus comes to indwell us, He says that He will NEVER leave us nor forsake us. But you believe you can make Him a liar and make Him leave? I don't think so. I will believe the bible. You make up what ever you want to.
You don't believe the bible because the bible says we can leave Him.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#408801 Dec 12, 2012
4GVN wrote:
No Apocryphal book was written by a true prophet or apostle of God. And no apocryphal book was confirmed by divine miracles--- something that happened often with the prophets in the Old Testament and apostles in the New Testament.
4GVN good friend

You have been reading lies....
You are reading some very deceitful material.

An example....

The Feast of the Dedication, which Jesus went to and celebrated in His time, and is today known as Hannukah is about the cleansing of the Temple after the abomination by the Gentiles....One day of oil burned in the Temple for 8 days....That is why the Mennorah is 8 days long, with 9 lights in it....It is considered a miracle....Recorded in the Book of the Maccabees....
Pad

Rockford, IL

#408802 Dec 12, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
All do respect Pad, you didn't answer any of my questions...at all.
How can I leave the Catholic Church when no one can provide one shred of evidence that the Church is not who they say they are?
If you say some of our beliefs are not 'explicitly found in scripture'. Then you MUST provide scripture, that says scripture is the only thing Christ established. You can't just give me a nice testimonial about how you view the Bible!
I'll answer your other post to me as well.WHO is asking you to leave the Catholic Church? Not me Clay,no matter what I say or do about the Catholic Church that has nothing to do with you.Stay,grow where you are planted,enjoy your church,and most of all be used of God.It is the LORD you will see face to face someday.

There is no doubt in my mind Clay that the Lord Jesus Christ in His Infinite,love,mercy and wisdom has each and every believer accounted for,and is using them for His glory.On a daily basis Clay I see people at work,and some are Catholics,there are two in particular I talk to almost every day.

Jim is very involved in his parish and we are basically friends,he is conservative,but yet is not too fond of the Catholics in his church who are ardant and strongly dedicated to the Lord,on the other hand Ginny is and when I talk to her I feel very connected with her spirit as she believes strongly in being born of the Spirit.Ginny loves her church but you can see such a love for Jesus and she is open to every believer.

Nevertheless Clay,I could care less what building of Christian endeavor they attend,for they both share with me what they believe and love about God and faith,and so on. I have my concerns about Catholicism,but basically it is too big for me to topple with some personal gripes.I have long ago learnded to love the brethren,and that is all inclusive to every affiliation.

Authority is Christ's alone,He is the ONE who has the authority in His People world-wide. That is a general statement,but think of this Clay.Since Jesus is ALL in all,and His Spirit is no respecter of persons,He gives liberally,and blesses with wonderful blessings and graces to all who come to Him by faith."COME unto me who labor and are heavy laden ,and I will give you rest........" Jesus calls us to Himself,there is enough of Him to go around,because of the Holy Spirit,that is why the Holy Spirit was sent to give Jesus to everyone who believes and repents.

The 40,000 expressions of church government and whatever you see it as,may seem at odds with each other over minor issues,but the truth is Christ is still worshiped and glorified,and He through the Holy Spirit directs and guides.When you take the time to realize that each and every sect,and affiliation in Christ all rely on the Spirit for direction and truth,it becomes apparent to you that Christ is ALL in all. Those 40,000 different sects of which I do not believe there is even close to that many,all believe in faith,preach the gospel,teach new believers,have part in taking care of the POOR and needy,and all rely on the Bible for confirmation in the BIG things:Prayer and supplication,Obedience to Him,rejecting sin,living Moral lives in righteousness.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#408803 Dec 12, 2012
MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Bottom line! I don't care what you believe.
Yes--Michael---"YOU DO CARE" what I believe, just like you care what Clay, Anthony, or any other Catholic on this forum "believe"!! The fact is that you and your other agnostic, atheists or bible only Protestant "heretics" wouldn't be on this Catholic Forum, OTHERWISE--- condemning, judging and attacking our Catholic-Christian Faith, AND Jesus Christ HIMSELF ---as well as --the One True Catholic Church that he formed, established and authenticated!!
In other words,(if you didn't care what we believe) you would just go away and continue living in the "bondage of hate, hostility, vengeance and animosity that has "festered and infected" your heart, mind and soul--all these years!!! But we as Catholics ALL KNOW that you can't and won't do that because you would rather live your life in the "same old condemning" anti-catholic revenge in which your distorted "personal judgmental opinion" is the "final authority!! Until you come to "true Salvation" in Jesus Christ, in and through His One True Catholic Church, you, Michael will continue to remain "on the outside of the TRUTH" ---always looking in!!!!!
Pad

Rockford, IL

#408804 Dec 12, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Herme good friend
The N.T. quotes of O.T., is not a basis of accepting the Deuterocanonical books....
If it were, then we would need to throw out, "Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon", since they are not quoted in the N.T....
Jesus, went to the Feast of the Dedication....what we now called Hannukah..., this was the defeat of Greco-Assyrian by the Maccabees....Fortunately, the Deuterocanonicals has I and II Maccabees. They of course have history and theology in them, and is the great final and solid statement by Jesus in the Temple, to the authorities that he is the Son of God.
It is a pity that Protestantism through out the Books of the Maccabees, they lost much of the linkage between Jesus and the latter part of Israel's history, and prophecy, that "the Gentiles will see the Savior of Israel...."(I Macc 4:11), and the continuation of the Hannukah....
But than again my good friend,if any person wants to read Maccabees,they can get a hold of a Catholic Bible and read it for themselves.We have two Catholic Bibles in this house and both contain the Books,the Protestant Bible do not have.

By the Way how are you doing? Keeping up with everything? With the holidays and so on,work,and feeling like you are coming down with something,life is at times a challenge.But nothing compared to those who have had tornadoes of recent,and the whole upper East Coast and what they face.I can't complain!

The news is always a challenge to watch,after awile you want to just watch a good movie,and forget about all that is happening in this world.

The people here in Illinois have many challenges,we are faced with a full House of Democrats who are using everything in their disposal to make waste of anything good we have in this state.Long forgotten is the bi-partisanship that was so a century ago.Now we have the liberal slicing away of our pensions,and everything else.Many people I know have left the state,even some of the relatives I love who are staunch liberals have left and are living in states that are mostly Republican.

Aside from Politics,hope you and your family are doing fine,and the Christmas season will be a blessing to you as never before! In Christ!
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#408805 Dec 12, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>What is your definition of believe?
Believing that the moon circles the earth is really a passive thing. We see it, we know the science behind it, we accept and admit it as fact, it doesn't require anything of us, but it happens nonetheless. Biblical "belief" is to not only acknowledge and accept, but also to obey. Remember, even the demons believe. St. James clearly combines the need for faith and obedience to Christ's commands in the definition of "belief".

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#408806 Dec 12, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
James tells us that faith is faith and works are works. They are two separate entities, and must be coupled together to achieve salvation. Faith (a mental process) and works (an action) are required for salvation.
When James asks “Can his faith save him?,” the answer is a resounding NO. James is talking about salvation. The answer to the question is NO because we must add works to our faith. Works just don't flow automatically out of true believers. The Bible never says anything about false faith or saving faith. Faith may truly exist, but it is not enough to save us. Even the demons believe in Jesus and tremble. Remember, James was talking to "saved Christians" in his epistle. Yet James continues to warn them to avoid sin and do good, or they will lose their salvation. That is because their faith was not enough to save them.
Abraham is a perfect example. Even though he was justified in Genesis 15, God still required him to sacrifice his son (a "work") which justified him in Genesis 22. If Abraham would not have added this work to his faith, he would have fallen out of favor with God. Thus, James says that Abraham was justified by his works.
Faith and works are required for salvation. God accepts them when done in a system of grace. This means we don't view God as a debtor who owes us, but as a loving Father who will reward us out of His goodness. Neither our faith nor our works can please God outside of grace. The key distinction is law versus grace. We are saved by God's grace through faith and works, and not faith alone.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/justificatio...
~~~

Works do not determine our destiny... they determine our rewards.

READ WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT WORKS...

1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master builder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest:

for the day shall declare it,

because it shall be revealed by fire; and

THE FIRE SHALL TRY EVERY MAN'S WORKS of what sort it is.

1Co 3:14 IF THE MAN'S WORKS ABIDE,

which he hath built thereupon,

HE SHALL RECEIVE A REWARD.

1Co 3:15 IF ANY MAN'S WORK SHALL BE BURNED he shall suffer loss:

BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#408807 Dec 12, 2012
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>you know me as Preston. I used this nick when I first came on here and I reverted back to it.
wanted to show people that I am a happily married man with a wonderful wife,
like you.
Just noticed the picture preston, you're a nice looking couple.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408808 Dec 12, 2012
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes--and the TRUTH needs to be "parroted" over and over again, to bible only heretics like you, 4GVN who (are forever) trying and feed your "molded crackers" of "distorted and false interpretation of the bible" to Catholics on this forum--(who "know the TRUTH" of the Word of God and TRUE Church History.
Nasty little 'bird brain' aren't you. lol
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

#408809 Dec 12, 2012
Bible Verse Of the Day

16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 6:16-19 (KJV)

www.Christ.com

LTM

Sudbury, Canada

#408810 Dec 12, 2012
Personality
Dec122012December 12, 2012
... that they may be one just as We are one ...—John 17:22

Personality is the unique, limitless part of our life that makes us distinct from everyone else. It is too vast for us even to comprehend. An island in the sea may be just the top of a large mountain, and our personality is like that island. We don’t know the great depths of our being, therefore we cannot measure ourselves. We start out thinking we can, but soon realize that there is really only one Being who fully understands us, and that is our Creator.

Personality is the characteristic mark of the inner, spiritual man, just as individuality is the characteristic of the outer, natural man. Our Lord can never be described in terms of individuality and independence, but only in terms of His total Person—“I and My Father are one”(John 10:30). Personality merges, and you only reach your true identity once you are merged with another person. When love or the Spirit of God come upon a person, he is transformed. He will then no longer insist on maintaining his individuality. Our Lord never referred to a person’s individuality or his isolated position, but spoke in terms of the total person—“... that they may be one just as We are one ....” Once your rights to yourself are surrendered to God, your true personal nature begins responding to God immediately. Jesus Christ brings freedom to your total person, and even your individuality is transformed. The transformation is brought about by love— personal devotion to Jesus. Love is the overflowing result of one person in true fellowship with another.

Bible in One Year: Hosea 9-11; Revelation 3
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408811 Dec 12, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Remember, James was talking to "saved Christians" in his epistle.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/justificatio...
What does that mean, Anthony? Obviously the term means something very different to us. Are there any other kind of Christians? Are all 'saved' persons, Christians? What do YOU mean by "saved Christians'?
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#408812 Dec 12, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
That's just not truthful 4gvn. You need to stop with that, if you want to be a Christian. If your theology can stand on its own merits, you don't need to say thing like "the Roman Catholic Church decided at the council of Trent that some books needed to be in the Bible"
The Catholic Church felt the need to publicly state things due to heretics preaching falsehoods. In the case at the Council of Trent, Luther and his victims were running around telling everyone the Church added scripture to the Hebrew canon. In fact, they were saying many falsehoods about scripture to get people to leave the the Church- Luther was participating in Satans finest hour.
The official Jewish Canon did not get established until 70 yrs after Christ died and rose. The Jews did this in response to the growing Christians and left out the 7 books Christians were using -in order to distance themselves from them.
So the Roman Catholic Church stood up at the Council of Trent to address the issue because Luther conveniently left out the truth of Biblical history in order to win people away from Catholicism. Who could question what he was saying? They certainly couldn't Google anything to cross check him!
I pray you don't just plug your ears at this.
Sorry to again disagree, Clay, but I believe it is quite truthful. Surprisedyou can't see it.

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