Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

[4GVN]

marge wrote:

<quoted text>
Yet we have these promises;
Heb 10:10,14
10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Phil 1:6
6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Amen Marge! Well done.

[Anthony MN]

marge wrote:

<quoted text>
Yet we have these promises;
Heb 10:10,14
10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Phil 1:6
6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Right. But you didn't answer my question; If the Holy Spirit is guiding you and it is impossible for you to fail to repent, how can the Holy Spirit also be guiding you to sin in the first place?

[TheBlackSheep]

Robert F wrote:

<quoted text>
TBS
I like it too....
In a sense for the same reason you do.

Really?!? You really think that I liked it? Murdering a girl because she lost their virginity? Are you nuts?

Why only the girls? Men are in control, so they can screw around as much as they want, but women can't? That's not f'ed up at all!

Robert F wrote:

<quoted text>I think it better to hold those responsible for their actions, than murdering human beings in the womb..., don't you?

Murder is murder, is it not? Murdering a 16yo girl, not the boys, just the girls, for having sex before marriage is just as evil and any other excuse to murder.

[Michael]

ReginaM wrote:

In the United States, about 50% of men arrested for pedophilia are married.
http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia...
I guess marriage is a curse.

ReginaM. says.......

...In the United States, about 50% of men arrested for pedophilia are married.

Michael says....

...Up until just a few years ago, 100% of the Bishops who knew of priests committing sexual crimes, LIED, DECEIVED, and COVERED up these most heinous sins, from "YOU" and all other catholics.

You OK with that?

[TheBlackSheep]

confrinting with the word wrote:

<quoted text>
~~~
MORE DANCING AROUND...
MY SOUL IS SECURE FOR I AM SIMPLY STANDING ON THE PROMISES OF GOD...
JESUS SAID
I DON'T NEED YOUR RITUALS AND EXERCISES..
~~~~
WHERE IS THE PROMISE.. SECURITY...OF YOUR HOPE OF ETERNAL..LIFE
IS IT IN YOU CATECHISM?
IS IT IN MARY?...
IS IT IN YOU ICONS?..IDOLS..STATUES...
IS IT IN YOUR SAINTS?...
IS IT IN YOUR ROSARY?...
IS IT IN YOU POPE?...
IS IT IN YOU CHURCH?...
IS IT IN YOUR EUCHARIST?
AND ALL THE REST OF THOSE UNESSARY CALTHESENTICS THAT HAS BEEN ADDED TO GOD'S ETERNAL PLAN OF SALVATION

Posting in all caps makes your posts harder to read and is discouraged.

WHY ARE YOU YELLING?

[Michael]

ReginaM wrote:

In the United States, about 50% of men arrested for pedophilia are married.
http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia...
I guess marriage is a curse.

...Put "ALL" guilty, sexual predators, married or single in prison, including all! those that protected, and covered up for any predators........AGREED?

[Anthony MN]

4GVN wrote:

<quoted text>There is NO CHOICE if the requirements are mandated by the church. One cannot CHOOSE to get married and be a priest. The choice is legislated by the church. Christ never mandated such a restriction. Should we go beond what Christ required? And would there have been all of the pedifilia in the church if this requirement had not been mandated? Did the mandate produce a blessing or a curse?

Yes, they have a choice. They can CHOOSE to be married or they can CHOOSE to be a priest.

"Should we go beond what Christ required?"

Jesus (and St. Paul for that matter) clearly said that it is better, for the kingdom of heaven, for those who can handle it, to be unmarried.

"And would there have been all of the pedifilia in the church if this requirement had not been mandated?"

That's a low blow. The vast majority of guilty priests were homosexuals who preyed on post-pubescent adolescents.

"Did the mandate produce a blessing or a curse?"

A blessing without question. Absolutely. The Church's history is filled with Godly, blessed, holy, loving, caring, life sacrifying saints who were almost ALL celibate. They did it for the Kingdom of Heaven.

How many protestant pastors do you know that would give up sex in order to completely dedicate their lives to God?

[Fun Facts]

marge wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, but you said they choose not to repent of future sins, do we agree then that that is impossible, with the Holy Spirit guiding the person to not be lead to repentance?

you may have overlooked...

http://bible.cc/hebrews/6-6.htm

Questions?
http://avemariaradio.net/catholic-online-radi...

[Free Mind]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
ReginaM. says.......
...In the United States, about 50% of men arrested for pedophilia are married.
Michael says....
...Up until just a few years ago, 100% of the Bishops who knew of priests committing sexual crimes, LIED, DECEIVED, and COVERED up these most heinous sins, from "YOU" and all other catholics.
You OK with that?

So what?

100% of the RCC Bishops responded to abuse claims the same way.

That was just an amazing coincidence ...... or PROOF that RCC Bishops worldwide (e.g. Apostolic Successors) were led by the Holy Spirit/Jesus/God the Father ....... and that's it, because we are told the Popes in Rome knew nothing.

The odds of a coincidence is too great.

Thus, the Holy Spirit obviously is behind the largest child-sex-abuse COVER-UP in world history.

There is one other possibility.

It is possible that these folks are not guided -- "perfectly" or otherwise -- in matters of morals by any Holy Spirit/Jesus/God.

That certainly seems to be a possibility in light of WORLDWIDE EVENTS and REVELATIONS.

PS - Jesus says that being "no worse than the Southern Baptist" is no defense.

[4GVN]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, they have a choice. They can CHOOSE to be married or they can CHOOSE to be a priest.
"Should we go beond what Christ required?"
Jesus (and St. Paul for that matter) clearly said that it is better, for the kingdom of heaven, for those who can handle it, to be unmarried.
"And would there have been all of the pedifilia in the church if this requirement had not been mandated?"
That's a low blow. The vast majority of guilty priests were homosexuals who preyed on post-pubescent adolescents.
"Did the mandate produce a blessing or a curse?"
A blessing without question. Absolutely. The Church's history is filled with Godly, blessed, holy, loving, caring, life sacrifying saints who were almost ALL celibate. They did it for the Kingdom of Heaven.
How many protestant pastors do you know that would give up sex in order to completely dedicate their lives to God?

You did not address the fact that Christ nor any of the apostles 'mandated' such a requirement. In fact the RCC didn't do so for the first thousand yrs. So were they right for the first thousand, or were they wrong? No one has a right to make requirements for the man of God(pastors, or any other) that God himself did not require. That falls into the area of adding to or takeing away from what is written. How can man place a requirement on GOD"S servent, when GOD Himself did not do so. It is wrong.
And the cold hard fact is that the requirement created a hideout for homosexuals who somehow appeared normal in thier non-married roles.
You say a blessing 'without question'. Hundreds of thousands of children and thier families who have been devastateded by the sexual abuse would surely disagree with you. So there is a verry real 'question'.

[4GVN]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, they have a choice. They can CHOOSE to be married or they can CHOOSE to be a priest.
"Should we go beond what Christ required?"
Jesus (and St. Paul for that matter) clearly said that it is better, for the kingdom of heaven, for those who can handle it, to be unmarried.
"And would there have been all of the pedifilia in the church if this requirement had not been mandated?"
That's a low blow. The vast majority of guilty priests were homosexuals who preyed on post-pubescent adolescents.
"Did the mandate produce a blessing or a curse?"
A blessing without question. Absolutely. The Church's history is filled with Godly, blessed, holy, loving, caring, life sacrifying saints who were almost ALL celibate. They did it for the Kingdom of Heaven.
How many protestant pastors do you know that would give up sex in order to completely dedicate their lives to God?

The passages that you are referring to by Paul were for a specific time, because the church was under such great persecution. Paul spells this out in his writings in the context of those verses.

[4GVN]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
I always read your articles, all of them, no matter how long and tedious. I don't think they're a waste of time because I sincerely want to know what you're taught. I wish you felt the same way.

Really, I thought you thought of me as a 'clown'.

[Dust Storm]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
I always read your articles, all of them, no matter how long and tedious. I don't think they're a waste of time because I sincerely want to know what you're taught. I wish you felt the same way.

A good summation. Just put 4bdn for Engwer.

http://www.catholicintl.com/index.php/protest...

[Free Mind]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
...Put "ALL" guilty, sexual predators, married or single in prison, including all! those that protected, and covered up for any predators........AGREED?

You cannot put all RCC Apostolic Successors in jail.

Who would give us perfect teachings on morals?

Who would keep an eye on the nuns?

[Free Mind]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
...Put "ALL" guilty, sexual predators, married or single in prison, including all! those that protected, and covered up for any predators........AGREED?

OK, put all RCC Bishops in jail, but with a liberal work-release program. Or perhaps house arrest.

[Hermeneutics Smutics]

Pad wrote:

Free Mind :Tapestry of the Christian Religion.
For all who cannot imagine a Living organism of faith in Christ which is His and His alone,than in another aspect we can see that all the affiliations of Christian endeavor are really ONE in Him and used by Him for His glory.
If we look at the opposite side of a beautiful tapestry,it is many bulges and confusing jabs of material,zig zags and not at all visibly comprehendable.BUT when you turn it over to the right side,you see a beautiful picture of something that keeps your eyes fasted to its message to continuity and truth.
Our faith in Christ from the first century after the Death and resurrection of our Lord till now,has been assailed by every negative and destructive force known to human kind.
We have in our history intense persecution,and self destruction as well,especially in the Reformation years.
But now we have countless affiliations and denominations,and so called churches. If the truth be known we all praise and serve the same JESUS Christ,Messiah of us all.On the flip side of the Tapestry of our Christian titles,is the confusing sig sags and bulges that distort us and make us seem as divided and non related in the least.
But when we flip over to the right side,where there is truly a picture that is comprehended,is Christ with many people of all different backgrounds,ethnicities,races, and occupations,ages all represented.All clergy dressed in their particular garb for service to Christ,and Jesus is holding His Word,the symbols of our faith surround HIM at the Altar.
The Father is in the backgound,and the Dove with the radiance of the Holy Spirit is above the Head of the Lord Jesus.There is no confusion in HIS Face,the Lord Jesus knows all those who are present are His.Many have come through great affliction,and many by faith,but ALL came through the BLOOD.
I cannot hate any group or affiliation in Christ,because they all serve Him,and praise Him and lead others to Him.In the young faces of the youth of all affiliations there is a hunger and a desire to know the Living God,and we must encourage them as they are the C h u r c h of the future.
Recently I went through a concordance and looked up every verse on the C h u r c h,in the New Testament.It is the living organism of the Body of Christ in believers.Our common element is faith in Christ,we all came by the same Body,His Body,and we all were cleansed by the same B l o o d<His.
"NOW to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine,according to His power that is at work within us, to Him be glory in the CHURCH and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations forever and ever! Amen."
Ephesians 3:20-21.
"Keep watch over yourselves, and over the whole flock the Holy Spirit has given to you to guard. Shepherd the CHURCH of God, which he has acquired at the price of His own B l o o d." Acts 20:28.

Wonderful post. One of the most eloquent here I have read. Thanks.

[Hermeneutics Smutics]

Free Mind wrote:

<quoted text>
A cult is a religion with no political power.
Faith is faith -- there are no "legitimate arguments" either for or against. That is why it is called faith and not fact.
However, if you start arguing a faith as fact, then there are no legitimate arguments for it and plenty against.

Free Mind, I agree with you.We need to be clear on our basis for belief.As long as we do that, we reduce our vulnerabilities to attack. There is nothing wrong with faith.It is no less of value than the other more wholesome" means of belief.This would include philosophy, which has no means of speaking of the spiritual dimension.

In addition, the Orthodox believe in apophatic philosophy. This means it is difficult to make positive or definitive statements about God because He surpasses the ability of our concepts and language to define him. Apophatic philosophy describe what God is not.

Lastly,being a firm advocate of philosophy, logic, history, etc.,I have no shame whatsoever declaring that Christ lived, lives and is my saviour.I am not in the least doubt hampered by academic onslaught. I believe based on faith.I would add that I know God somewhat through experience. Again, this can not be defined or proven in traditional ways.

I concur that history for prove of Christ is weak. There is some there but it is by no means sufficient to meet firm standards.

So I cakll it as it is. Faith.nd say so not meekly but with confidence. Christ is Lord.

So being a student of philosophy, I know its limits and declare unequivacobly that I believe in Christ based on faith.

[Robert F]

4GVN wrote:

Robert F, I asked you very specific questions.
I asked you,
'How many of your sins did Jesus die for?"
You didn't answer.
I asked you,
How many did He take upon Himself and carry to the cross?
You didn't answer.
I asked you'
Was Jesus' payment enough?
You didn't answer.
I asked you,
Is there more to be paid?
You didn't answer.
I asked you,
Can we in any way add to the sacrificial payment that Jesus made?
You didn't answer.
And I asked you,
And what did Jesus mean when He stated that "IT IS FINISHED?"
And YOU DIDN"Y ANSWER.
If you want an honest dialog, please answer these questions.

4GVN good friend

I will be brief:

You ask:

'How many of your sins did Jesus die for?"
Answer: All of them.

"How many did He take upon Himself and carry to the cross?"
Answer: None of them. Isaiah 53:5 "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was on him; and with his stripes we are healed.") It is his sacrifice to death that is the payment for my wages of sin, which is death. So that in his resurrection, I might live.

"Was Jesus' payment enough?"
Answer: Enough for what? My salvation? Yes.

"Is there more to be paid?"
Answer: For what? Salvation? No.

"Can we in any way add to the sacrificial payment that Jesus made?"
Answer: I cannot add to God. It doesn't make sense. I can only return His Love.

"And what did Jesus mean when He stated that "IT IS FINISHED?"
In short he made peace between God and humanity.

After looking at your questions, it seems you are trying to get straight what God as Judge requires. It means you are seeking from me repentence, as John the Baptist, cried in the wilderness. This is a good thing. I applaud your questions.

(Yes God is The Judge, but His Love is even greater. For God is Love.)

And there is little about a personal relationship with Jesus. His amazing sacrifice, has a startling, and bright hope for each and every person. It is blinding to the natural man's mind. So we think in terms of what we consider justice.

[Robert F]

7th Day Catholics Rock wrote:

<quoted text>I am sure we all are guilty of not practicing what we preach unfortunetly.

7th Day

Of course we are guilty. And that is the point. It is in our nature as human beings, even born again, that we fall into sin. Why? Because by our nature we cannot do the law.

Thus the 10 Commandments are moral sign posts for us to observe, and when we go outside of them, we turn to God in his Mercy, having been already been born again, and with penance and contriteness of heart ask forgiveness, and accept go/forward in serving God.

[LTM]

A real example of the story as it has been circulated:
THE TABLECLOTH
The brand new pastor and his wife, newly assigned to their first ministry, to reopen a church in suburban Brooklyn, arrived in early October excited about their opportunities.
When they saw their church, it was very run down and needed much work. They set a goal to have everything done in time to have their first service on Christmas Eve. They worked hard, repairing pews, plastering walls, painting, etc. and on Dec 18 were ahead of schedule and just about finished. On Dec 19 a terrible tempest - a driving rainstorm - hit the area and lasted for two days. On the 21st, the pastor went over to the church. His heart sank when he saw that the roof had leaked, causing a large area of plaster about 20 feet by 8 feet to fall off the front wall of the sanctuary just behind the pulpit, beginning about head high. The pastor cleaned up the mess on the floor, and not knowing what else to do but postpone the Christmas Eve service, headed home.
On the way he noticed that a local business was having a flea market type sale for charity so he stopped in. One of the items was a beautiful, handmade, ivory colored, crocheted tablecloth with exquisite work, fine colors and a Cross embroidered right in the center. It was just the right size to cover up the hole in the front wall. He bought it and headed back to the church. By this time it had started to snow. An older woman running from the opposite direction was trying to catch the bus. She missed it. The pastor invited her to wait in the warm church for the next bus 45 minutes later. She sat in a pew and paid no attention to the pastor while he got a ladder, hangers, etc., to put up the tablecloth as a wall tapestry.
The pastor could hardly believe how beautiful it looked and it covered up the entire problem area. Then he noticed the woman walking down the center aisle. Her face was like a sheet. "Pastor," she asked, "where did you get that tablecloth?" The pastor explained. The woman asked him to check the lower right corner to see if the initials, EBG were crocheted into it there. They were. These were the initials of the woman, and she had made this tablecloth 35 years before, in Austria. The woman could hardly believe it as the pastor told how he had just gotten the Tablecloth. The woman explained that before the war she and her husband were well-to-do people in Austria. When the Nazis came, she was forced to leave. Her husband was going to follow her the next week. She was captured, sent to prison and never saw her husband or her home again. The pastor wanted to give her the tablecloth; but she made the pastor keep it for the church.
The pastor insisted on driving her home, that was the least he could do. She lived on the other side of Staten Island and was only in Brooklyn for the day for a housecleaning job. What a wonderful service they had on Christmas Eve. The church was almost full. The music and the spirit were great. At the end of the service, the pastor and his wife greeted everyone
at the door and many said that they would return. One older man, whom the pastor recognized from the neighborhood, continued to sit in one of the pews and stare, and the pastor wondered why he wasn’t leaving. The man asked him where he got the tablecloth on the front wall because it was identical to one that his wife had made years ago when they lived in Austria before the war and how could there be two tablecloths so much alike?
CONT