Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

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4GVN

Sikeston, MO

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#407420
Dec 6, 2012
 
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
It certainly is a choice. A man or woman, individually, makes a conscious choice to forego marriage and devote their lives entirely to God. In the case of protestant converts, the Church recognizes that we cannot break the marriage bond that already exists. If they take their vows while BEFORE marriage, they cannot later get married.
If they are accepable for the priesthood as married (converts) why would they not be equally acceptable as married(non-converts)?
ReginaM

Point Pleasant Beach, NJ

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#407421
Dec 6, 2012
 
Dust Storm wrote:
I'd not read this article before, thanks. Not all sexual abuse is pedophilia, yet you wouldn't know it from the protestants, atheists, and whatevers on this board. They come here foaming at the mouth in absolute delight to announce that all priests are pedophiles and rape "infants". And, of course, celibacy is the reason! From the sound of it, most of them are getting vicarious thrills and spend an inordinate amount of time fantasizing about it. No one is excusing sexual abuse of any kind, but to sensationalize it as they do makes one wonder. I agree that there's a higher incidence of false allegations involving priests since, as the authors pointed out, bigotry against the Church and the likelihood of $$$ are prime motivators for these alleged victims. It's a dishonor and disgrace to those who really were abused.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#407422
Dec 6, 2012
 
who="Hermeneutics Smutics" Kay Marie,
I used to think the same way as you described, but in time, working with abusers I learned that whether they get satisfied at home with their wives or not has nothing to do with their sexual abuse of others.Thuis is a preference and a problem. This is a compulsion that will drive them no matter what the wife presents. do agree that some husbands cheat because of the coldness and lack of affection from their wives.I know this is no excuse and the husbands are part of the problem.Love your posts and love you and your husband.

**********

I agree with you...just didn't think of that 'side' of the problem. In other words, some offenders are lacking affection at home, BUT there are others who are mean for various reasons. I talked with one such man who had molested someone I knew. He said that his father molested him when he (the father) returned from the Korean war.

I believe that in such a case (maybe in all of them) an evil spirit is involved. Joyce Meyer says that "hurting people HURT people".

Thank you for your kindness. We are both very happy that you are back. We pray that your health continues to improve.

Blessings,
KayMarie

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

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#407423
Dec 6, 2012
 

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ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd not read this article before, thanks. Not all sexual abuse is pedophilia, yet you wouldn't know it from the protestants, atheists, and whatevers on this board. They come here foaming at the mouth in absolute delight to announce that all priests are pedophiles and rape "infants". And, of course, celibacy is the reason! From the sound of it, most of them are getting vicarious thrills and spend an inordinate amount of time fantasizing about it. No one is excusing sexual abuse of any kind, but to sensationalize it as they do makes one wonder. I agree that there's a higher incidence of false allegations involving priests since, as the authors pointed out, bigotry against the Church and the likelihood of $$$ are prime motivators for these alleged victims. It's a dishonor and disgrace to those who really were abused.
Regina, I know there have been guilty Catholic clergy, and from other denominations also. I'm sure though that some "victims" are indeed looking to cause trouble and make some cash. What really has shocked me is that in my "teensy" village, there were a number of homosexual and pedophile priests (I realize they are not one and the same). I'm in no way a homophobe, but we had several priests preaching against it while doing it. I guess some people can rationalize anything.

If I don't get to talk to you again, I wish you a happy and healthy holiday season.
4GVN

Sikeston, MO

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#407424
Dec 6, 2012
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="4GVN" KayMarie, please take the time to sincerely and PRAYERFULLY consider your response. DID Jesus pay for ALL of your (future) sins on the cross? Was it a (FULL) payment? Therefore are they not all(covered)?
I do understand the donfusion, but consider for a moment what your reply would entail. If (any) unconfessed sin was not (covered) we would be in danger of hell at any moment in our lives. In fact we could never be confident of our salvation because it would all hinge on the last moments before death. And what of the sins we commit(falling short of the Glory of God) that we are not even aware of. The scripture tells us that "to him that knows to to good and does it not, to him it is sin." How many times do we as christians fail to to that 'good' thing that we have thought(I should do this, or I should do that), but we just never get around to it. Scripture telles us that that is sin. If that is true and as you say since we did not repent of it we are lost, because that sin was not covered. If that were true we would have NO POSSIBILITY of ever reaching heaven. JESUS PAID IT ALL. They are ALL covered! And we were given the GIFT of eternal life the moment we trusted in that finished work(completed and paid in full) by Jesus. I believe taht what you are misunderstanding is chastisement."whom the Lord loves(His children) He chastises" to bring us back to where He wants us to be. God does not chastise anothers children. Only His own.
*********
I understand your point. But surely you also understand that one knows whether they are in rebellion against God.
If the heart is where it should be with God, there need be no fear that He will destroy us for some unknown/unintended offense. The just shall LIVE by his faith; if your faith is founded in HIM, you do not need to be afraid.
Yes, He does chasten/correct those He loves. If that happens and the heart is right, the individual will be led to repentance by His correction.
The rebel will turn against God, the church, and other people.
KayMarie
But you are changing the subject. YOU SAID that any unrepentant sin of a believer was "not covered by the blod of Jesus". Which would be enough to condemn one to hell. The fact is, the MOMENT we recieve Christ, we are given a 'FREE GIFT'. All of our sins are at that moment placed under the blood of Jesus. If they are not, we are not saved; we have no assurence of heaven, we are not sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, We do not have ETERNAL LIFE. We are only 'pardoned' untill the next time we 'fall short of the Glory of God. THEN we would have to be saved all over again.....and on and on we would go.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#407425
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Anthony said:
Jer. 16:1-4 - Jeremiah is told by God not to take a wife or have children.

**********

Read it all. He didn't tell him not to have a family so that he could minister. He told him not to BECAUSE they would all die horrible deaths in 'this place'.

KM

Since: Dec 12

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#407426
Dec 6, 2012
 
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
Regina, I know there have been guilty Catholic clergy, and from other denominations also. I'm sure though that some "victims" are indeed looking to cause trouble and make some cash. What really has shocked me is that in my "teensy" village, there were a number of homosexual and pedophile priests (I realize they are not one and the same). I'm in no way a homophobe, but we had several priests preaching against it while doing it. I guess some people can rationalize anything.
If I don't get to talk to you again, I wish you a happy and healthy holiday season.
Are you sensible? The CC has a history of abuse from 31ce. The 12 Inquisitions for example. Constantine was the first Pope, a Pagan from Rome. All of the teachings of the CC are from Babylon, 2000 years before Christ. Leave the CC church, find the right way to serve God. If you search, He will find you. I do promise.
Dust Storm

Pipestone, MN

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#407427
Dec 6, 2012
 
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>Dust Storm,I find you one of the more intelligent and informed posters. Nevertheless I would like to respond to the article/link you provided.
First a correct definition of pedophilia is a psychological definition with certain characteristics. ne characteristic is the attraction/compulsion to children.
A person who sexually acts against an adolescent post pubescent is not a pedophiac by definition. He is however a sexual abuser and a sexual offender if there is a relationship of trust/ authority. Therefore a prioest or preacher that sexually acts out against an adolescent post pubescent would be a sex offender.
Secondly,false memory is an accurate but dangerous and misued phenomenon that has caused great harm to victims. Those suffering from false memory would be minute. This should not have been a point of argument for the authoprs of the article.
Thirdly I dispute the conclusions drawn by the authors re
there is evidence that priests have a higher rate of false and unfounded allegations than adults in the general population. Less than half of the allegations were found to be substantiated and even with those that were criminally prosecuted a large number—nearly a third—were found not guilty.
The reason I would dispute this is that there are a number of factors that could affect the retraction, unsubstantiation of charges against priests. I would rely more heavily on not guilty verdicts.
I am vehemently against agenda-driven attacks against the Church re sexual abuse, against the characterization of priests, and exagerration of the extent of the problem. I will defend against such rubbish.
At the same time,my vehement defense and advocacy of victims prompted me to respond to the article.
Thanks
The article does not contend the definition of pedophilia you have given.

Second, The conclusion is based on the John Jay Independent study and they say, "Another key difference found in the study is that a little less that half of the priests (1881) were found to be subject to unsubstantiated allegations.

An unsubstantiated allegation was defined as “an allegation that was proven to be untruthful and fabricated” as a result of a criminal investigation. This rate of false accusations is much higher than found in the general population.

So I suppose you could challenge the methodology of how they arrived at the rate, nevertheless it was the finding and that information is not provided. One can also easily argue that just as many factors are involved regardless of the institution and some of those possible motives are given. Regardless it is not anywhere near the focus of the study nor does it seek to discredit legitimate claims, but rather look at the whole for the fullest extent of the picture. The numbers are the numbers.

Third, I think the article was more than fair in pointing out that no definite statisitics can be applied in terms of false memory.
truth

Perth, Australia

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#407428
Dec 6, 2012
 
Jesus say;''go out of him''..
Is that for you problem know about that?
No..i don't think so..lips can pretend many things as well people on power can be very easy manipulative too..if they have interest or pay good money they will find out who when and how?
If they have interest destroy someone person or family they do without any reserve as they doing include why is on power to become abuse power.
Not any excuse for institution harassment does meter who ever they are.
Remember wicket can't have holy ticket.

I think I am ok.
ReginaM

Point Pleasant Beach, NJ

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#407429
Dec 6, 2012
 

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confrinting with the word wrote:
who="ReginaM"
Different in that you started out claiming that priestly celibacy is responsible for pedophilia. Anthony correctly pointed out that the majority of abuse cases involved homosexuals and post-pubescent males. We both reminded you that Christ said that those who can bear celibacy should and the called deliberately embrace celibacy for the Kingdom of God. So....you changed your tune and are now claiming that those called to the priesthood and religious life are ignorant and don't have any idea as to what they're sacrificing. I can assure you that these men and women don't live in a vacuum prior to entering the seminary, convent, or monastery. They're fully aware of what they're doing and freely choose to devote their lives to serving God. Sex is not the be all and end all, marriage is not the only vocation in life.
**********
I did not change anything. What are homosexuals and post-pubescent males doing in the priestly ranks? Marriage is not only God's 'invention'; it is the means for building God's church.
You can't tell me that a teenage boy OR girl (not sexually 'savvy') knows what they are giving up. They go into ministry because they desire that high calling. They cannot understand what they are giving up, because they've never 'had' what they are supposedly giving.
KayMarie
Homosexuality is not in and of itself a sin. It is the action that's sinful. I never said post-pubescent males were *in* the priesthood. Kay, you're grasping at straws. You enjoy attacking the Church and will say absolutely anything, true or not, in order to do so. You threw down the sex abuse card, turned it into strictly pedophilia which it isn't, and are now trying to say that those who enter the priesthood and religious life are mere teenagers who haven't a clue as to what they're doing. According to you they're discerning vocations because the notion of responding to a higher calling sounds romantic. It couldn't possibly be that these are highly educated adults who've given a tremendous amount of thought and prayer for several years in their discernment of a life of service to God, to answer His personal call, to build up and minister to His kingdom. Self control for love of God...what a concept!

Robert was right, priests are married to the Church. At one point, the disciples ask Christ if it is "expedient not to marry?" He replies that "not all can accept this teaching; but those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born so...and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let him accept it who can" (Mt 19:10-12).

Interesting article: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/a...
truth

Perth, Australia

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#407430
Dec 6, 2012
 
Institutional harassment make someone killer or to be abusive is worst as well very well known corupt diploma.

What ever and so ever your leaders make on front others are simple victim on long run.

Many pay heavy price from single person family tribe as well nations because of that reason which people from top simple used and misused.

You will say hunting what is in interest someone to pay heavy price is about what?

Others can discover as well others listen..as well others know it is as it is one day will be full stop.

99% have to be hunt or to become victim in name of
many org to have interest just for money privileged and so on..not for ever no.

Since: Dec 11

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#407431
Dec 6, 2012
 
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
The article does not contend the definition of pedophilia you have given.
Second, The conclusion is based on the John Jay Independent study and they say, "Another key difference found in the study is that a little less that half of the priests (1881) were found to be subject to unsubstantiated allegations.
An unsubstantiated allegation was defined as “an allegation that was proven to be untruthful and fabricated” as a result of a criminal investigation. This rate of false accusations is much higher than found in the general population.
So I suppose you could challenge the methodology of how they arrived at the rate, nevertheless it was the finding and that information is not provided. One can also easily argue that just as many factors are involved regardless of the institution and some of those possible motives are given. Regardless it is not anywhere near the focus of the study nor does it seek to discredit legitimate claims, but rather look at the whole for the fullest extent of the picture. The numbers are the numbers.
Third, I think the article was more than fair in pointing out that no definite statisitics can be applied in terms of false memory.
I appreciate your information and your response to my post.
I was reluctant at first to say anything about the article but whenever something re sexual abuse is posted my ears perk up because of all my years working with offwnders and victims.I agree that people exploit this particular problem and inflame the numbers to discredit the Church.My goal is a balance hold the real offenders accountable with no minimizing or cover up. Protect the innocent priests who are serving God and are now in a vulnerable position because of those who offended and those who covered up.
I was never accused myself but for a while my institution worked with girls. Often they used accusation to get even with a staff who held them accountabkle etc. At the same time have seen victims decimated by people an entire system that did not want to believe them.Both poles are abhorrent.
truth

Perth, Australia

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#407432
Dec 6, 2012
 
very sad..''who don't have clue''..very sad..nobody lock up them there..shame what a shame..after all many revoke who can't.. so simple..is that you clu..yes..
As you see kids in ordinary school..yes they can be lazy as well crazy..so what?

Now look many talent who is simple born as talent!

Is that deference then you force someone what can't or have ability to do?

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

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#407433
Dec 6, 2012
 
Makesure100 wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you sensible? The CC has a history of abuse from 31ce. The 12 Inquisitions for example. Constantine was the first Pope, a Pagan from Rome. All of the teachings of the CC are from Babylon, 2000 years before Christ. Leave the CC church, find the right way to serve God. If you search, He will find you. I do promise.
Thank you. I left the RC church a long time ago. I made an honest effort to re-join but it didn't work (there are some things I miss about it). I'm aware of some horrible things the church has done in the past - I was trying to be nice. During WWII, "Hitler's pope" didn't do as he should have done, no matter how many of today's Catholics will deny his lack of charity towards people he COULD have helped. Excuses are still being made for his terrible sins, sins which hurt so many, many innocent people.(I can almost hear the deniers practically screeching right now.) The RC church is unbelievably far removed from Jesus' teachings. I think His teachings are wonderful, though He was only one of countless preachers who taught the very same philosophy. My main reason for my disbelief that Jesus was divine is that I find it practically impossible to REALLY think any dead body can come back to life. I hope it's true, but I think it's quite incredible. Another thing, supposedly when He resurrected, a bunch of long-dead saints somehow came out of their graves and walked among the crowds. Do you believe that? If they did come back, what did they do - die again and jump back into the ground? Some of these old stories are just too much, it seems. But if you have good reason to believe in any of this, I'm more than willing to listen.
truth

Perth, Australia

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#407434
Dec 6, 2012
 
Why others institution is better does meter which religion or not religion?
no-religion org.
or
no-religion institution
Did they abuse or make direct or indirect victims on massive scale?
Yes much more.

Now they liked deadly control with intelligent design.
chip as cheap very cheep life as nothing as you see animals in zoo..
byyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
truth

Perth, Australia

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#407435
Dec 6, 2012
 
no
much more early in matrix come whooooooooo

i don't defend what you try tell me..no

your policy to control system behind economic and finacial dependence as well much more don't have nothing to do with Jesus Christ belivers..
We wrote many time how its easy make someone as undeground control state any org any institution..but
but you can't control belivers as corect zillion/zillion when Jesus Christ say..you are alive church as beliver in your midest is my altar..

yes
0003 bummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmm
dr hubo policy is gone invisible spirit..

Are you for sure that speed can't destroy building house or any building..yes yes yes i am very sure..without any gun or spend any money less asked for license from nobody..only if you have that power.

''if if if''
truth

Perth, Australia

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#407436
Dec 6, 2012
 
In future you have offer like never before miracle..o really..its not god its fine perfect destruction.

Why they fall as they fall before?
truth

Perth, Australia

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#407437
Dec 6, 2012
 
We have government and ministers who can declare just for one dollar others lunatic or send evil friend destroy anyone for one dollar like never before.

Because of that institutional harassment many revolution is win against all of them.
In future will be some.media not going help..because media is not leadership its just cover up as they know many things what is wrong as they doing wrong as they know it is as it is.

Good people not going tolerated as is not do in past will be in future too.

You will asked yourself on which way.
Does meter which way..we stop respect many things..how its look when you ignore someone..very nice..really.
marge

Ames, IA

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#407438
Dec 6, 2012
 

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ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
Homosexuality is not in and of itself a sin. It is the action that's sinful. I never said post-pubescent males were *in* the priesthood. Kay, you're grasping at straws. You enjoy attacking the Church and will say absolutely anything, true or not, in order to do so. You threw down the sex abuse card, turned it into strictly pedophilia which it isn't, and are now trying to say that those who enter the priesthood and religious life are mere teenagers who haven't a clue as to what they're doing. According to you they're discerning vocations because the notion of responding to a higher calling sounds romantic. It couldn't possibly be that these are highly educated adults who've given a tremendous amount of thought and prayer for several years in their discernment of a life of service to God, to answer His personal call, to build up and minister to His kingdom. Self control for love of God...what a concept!
Robert was right, priests are married to the Church. At one point, the disciples ask Christ if it is "expedient not to marry?" He replies that "not all can accept this teaching; but those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born so...and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let him accept it who can" (Mt 19:10-12).
Interesting article: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/a...
Hey Regina:)

You know my take on this right? The sin part comes in when your young men love the church more than God who made it. Therefore they don't know or follow the Gospel but their flesh and are NOT SAVED. We know this because many others can serve God for a lifetime and not fall into that sort of sin.

I would like to have a back and forth with this with you Regina I believe we could both come to better understanding, not now though bed time, love you:)

Since: Dec 12

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#407439
Dec 6, 2012
 
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
The article does not contend the definition of pedophilia you have given.
Second, The conclusion is based on the John Jay Independent study and they say, "Another key difference found in the study is that a little less that half of the priests (1881) were found to be subject to unsubstantiated allegations.
An unsubstantiated allegation was defined as “an allegation that was proven to be untruthful and fabricated” as a result of a criminal investigation. This rate of false accusations is much higher than found in the general population.
So I suppose you could challenge the methodology of how they arrived at the rate, nevertheless it was the finding and that information is not provided. One can also easily argue that just as many factors are involved regardless of the institution and some of those possible motives are given. Regardless it is not anywhere near the focus of the study nor does it seek to discredit legitimate claims, but rather look at the whole for the fullest extent of the picture. The numbers are the numbers.
Third, I think the article was more than fair in pointing out that no definite statisitics can be applied in terms of false memory.
You are a freakshow. The CC is pagan 100%. Don't defend a sore on humanity.

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