Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 559,465
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Clay

Chicago, IL

#406812 Dec 4, 2012
Michael wrote:
Roman catholic priests speak out!
December 4, 2012.
.....The New York Times reports that roughly half of the Kansas City diocese's priests have no confidence in Bishop Robert Finn. Sadly those sentiments, unless backed by action, won't change a thing.
....Kansas City priests must find courage and take action if ever their diocese is to become safer and healthier. Privately expressing disapproval of a criminal behavior won't get the job done.
....A decade ago, some 50+ Boston priests publicly rebuked Cardinal Bernard Law seeking his resignation. They won.
....The church is a feudal hierarchy. Bishops hold virtually all of the power. Priests, like lay people, are essentially serfs, so they are understandably reluctant to challenge bishops, even one who is a proven lawbreaker.(Bishops have clearly retaliated against brave whistleblowers, basically shunning them and transferring them to small, remote parishes for decades.)
....Still, sometimes conscience and decency demands that we put the safety and well-being of others - especially children – above our own selfish desires. Now is that time in Kansas City.
LAST PARAGRAPH......
......EXACTLY what I have been saying for nearly 4 years on this forum, and I have been criticized by catholic posters for speaking out.
Yawn.
Compared to other times in the Churchs 2,000 yr history, this is nothing.
You just discovered the internet, so you think its news.
Hey, why do you even care? Are you that insecure about your choice to leave Catholicism? Or ya just a plain old sociopath??
LTM

Sault Sainte Marie, Canada

#406813 Dec 4, 2012
cont
Bob Hoekstra The Holy Spirit and the Grace of God

Those who are in Christ through faith are servants of the new covenant. We addressed this in our second study,“The Grace of God.” We cannot build a life with God through our best efforts to live up to the law of God. We begin and maintain a relationship with Him through the His grace. That is echoed here in these words. It is not on our own sufficiency that we can come before God. We cannot serve God by our own sufficiency. We are simply insufficient to live up to his standards because they are perfect. In fact, we are not sufficient of ourselves as verse 5 declares,“to think of anything as being from ourselves.”

This is reminiscent of John 15:5 where Jesus said,“Apart from Me you can do nothing.” It seems as though we and as well as the unsaved are able to do so much. This is true, yet it amounts to nothing. People are able to do great works of art, make discoveries, explore, travel, theorize and impress one another, however, none of that can save a soul, transform a life, prepare anyone for glory, or let them be used now for the glory of God. The things done apart from Christ amount to nothing.“Apart from Me you can do nothing.” There are so many busy things, but they always amount to nothing outside of Christ.

Paul’s words,“Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as coming from ourselves”—are words of humility. We have already discussed humility and faith because they are both at the heart of living by the grace of God. The humility is that our sufficiency is not enough. The faith is based on our sufficiency being from God. Ultimately, we do not have what it takes, but fortunately, He does! What we have to do is humbly confess our insufficiency, and—by faith—trust in His sufficiency. That is how we are sufficient servants under the new covenant. It is not of the letter as there are no rules to obey, because it is the Spirit—a very person of the Godhead—who works in us.

Let us not underestimate the statement,“The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” For this is an issue of life and death. This point is not merely an interesting piece of doctrine. It is a matter of life and death. Living by the letter will kill us, because our best efforts fall short of the law that needs to be kept. The letter says that we do not measure up. We are incompetent in satisfying the law. Thankfully the Holy Spirit gives life. The Spirit supplies the life that we need and so we are changed.

The new covenant is lived out daily in humble dependence on the Holy Spirit. The Spirit supplies the sufficiency of the grace of God in our lives.

Again, the Holy Spirit and the grace of God correlate quite well. Where the Sprit is involved, the grace of God is found and vice versa. When we need grace, it is through the Holy Spirit. When we want the Holy Spirit to work, He works in delivering the grace of God.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#406814 Dec 4, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
HOJO says.....
..If YOU knew ANYTHING about the "VENGEANCE" of God, you would "get down on your knees" and repent of the condemning and judgmental hypocricy.
MICHAEL says....
.... I was thought, God was an all loving God.
"No wonder" you left the Catholic Church! ANYONE knows that God is both a God of love and mercy as well as a God of justice and judgement ---as stated in Romans 10:14 where "each one of us will, eventually stand before the judgment seat of God to answer and give an account of our lives to HIM!!----You, Michael, must have been one of those Catholics that either "was asleep both in Confirmation AND in Mass---or ---did you just "not bother" to show up!!...... Now it explains why you "keep spreading" your liberal anti-catholic "distorted statistics, percentages and "hogwash" on this forum!!

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#406815 Dec 4, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
You do know that it was taught and establish BEFORE there was such thing as Protestants...right?
~~~

PLEASE VALIDATE YOU ABOVE STATEMENT FROM GOD'S WORD...

IF YOU CAN'T THEN YOU ARE JUST BLOWING SMOKE...

QUESTION ..

WHY DO YOU ATTEMPT TO ESTABLISH SOMETHING AS TRUTH,

THAT HAS NO VALIDATION OR CREDIBILITY IN THE OLD ARE NEW TESTAMENT?

SOMETHING THAT IS ONLY A PERSONAL OPINION?

like much that is taught by THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

you can't prove BY any means THAT IT EVER exist...

GOD ONLY UNDERWRITES..THAT WHICH HE HAS SPOKEN FORTH AND SENT...

THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST

DOES NOT

SANCTIFY,..

VERIFY,...

CONSECRATE,... OR

VALIDATE,...

WHAT GOD HAS NOT SPOKEN FORTH.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#406816 Dec 4, 2012
Michael wrote:
Roman catholic priests speak out!
December 4, 2012.
.....The New York Times reports that roughly half of the Kansas City diocese's priests have no confidence in Bishop Robert Finn. Sadly those sentiments, unless backed by action, won't change a thing.
....Kansas City priests must find courage and take action if ever their diocese is to become safer and healthier. Privately expressing disapproval of a criminal behavior won't get the job done.
....A decade ago, some 50+ Boston priests publicly rebuked Cardinal Bernard Law seeking his resignation. They won.
....The church is a feudal hierarchy. Bishops hold virtually all of the power. Priests, like lay people, are essentially serfs, so they are understandably reluctant to challenge bishops, even one who is a proven lawbreaker.(Bishops have clearly retaliated against brave whistleblowers, basically shunning them and transferring them to small, remote parishes for decades.)
....Still, sometimes conscience and decency demands that we put the safety and well-being of others - especially children – above our own selfish desires. Now is that time in Kansas City.
LAST PARAGRAPH......
......EXACTLY what I have been saying for nearly 4 years on this forum, and I have been criticized by catholic posters for speaking out.
Your "negative exaggerated comments" continues to show "how desperate" you are in pushing your anti-catholic "hate and hostility" towards ANYONE who will be "stupid enough" to believe your "distorted Catholic (undermining and slanderous) rhetoric".
I'm sure that the bible only Protestants on this forum, are "sucking up" all of the National Inquire type of "trash" stories that keeps both (you and them) living in the "muck and mud" of anti-catholic vengeance---for --"four years now!!!! Wow!! Is that how long you have been "shackled in your hostile "bondage" against Jesus Christ and His One True Catholic Church?????? Again--look in the mirror Michael----and you will see "exactly what the problem is!!!

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#406817 Dec 4, 2012
who="Michael"
Michael says...
...It's been three months since Finn's conviction, and (as the Times article reveals), there are even priests in his diocese willing to say publicly that he should be gone. But neither his fellow bishops nor the Vatican has uttered so much as a peep about the first American hierarch to be convicted of covering up a case of clerical sexual abuse.
Its that FEAR FACTOR.......that I have been hollering about that is within the catholic church followers.
Lay people will not speak out, priests are afraid to speak their minds to their bishops, and so on all the way up the chain of command.
When will all catholics stand up and speak their minds when things are terribly wrong within their church. Its obvious the church hirearchy has a stranglehold on its followers and uses the "GOD will punish you" card. if you speak out.
If catholics are really serious about ending wrong doings in their church they FIRST have to make it known that they are not acceptable. Until the day ever comes, scandal after scandal will fester, and every day more STRONG ONLY catholics will quietly walk away.

**********

Those who do not stand up against such things for fear need to read what God says about that. HE said, Why fear a man that will die? Best to fear HIM Who lives forever, and can destroy both soul and body in hell.

He also said that 'whatsoever you did unto the least of these my brethren, YOU DID TO ME.'

KayMarie
ReginaM

Lakewood, NJ

#406818 Dec 4, 2012
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are so many churches going away from Latin masses? To rid yourself of 'Sacred Traditions', you must have a very good reason. Do you still only eat fish on Fridays?
<quoted text>
Good morning! If you don't mind, I'll answer your post in sections. I've got a busy day and this will be easier on my overfilled mind.

The Second Vatican Council (Vatican II) was the catalyst behind the change in language. Bishops were offered the option of celebrating in the vernacular to enable a better understanding and fuller participation in the Mass by the faithful. Contrary to what some think, the vernacular was never mandatory.

"One of the changes in the liturgy that took place after the Second Vatican Council is the use of the vernacular instead of Latin in the liturgy. Many people believe that this was a requirement since Latin almost completely disappeared, but Vatican II actually said that Latin is to remain the official language of the liturgy of the Roman Rite and the the vernacular could be used when it was deemed appropriate.
But the introduction of the vernacular after Vatican II wasn’t the first time that the Roman Rite could be celebrated in a language other than Latin. Since at least the 10th century the Roman Rite was celebrated in Old Slavonic in Croatia, called the Glagolitic liturgy. The origin of that tradition is from the two brothers Sts. Cyril and Methodius who baptized the Slavic peoples. Since the brothers came from Greece the primary liturgy accepted in the nations that they brought the gospel to was the Byzantine Rite. Some regions of Croatia also began using the vernacular, i.e. Old Slavonic, but they used the Roman Rite, instead of the Byzantine. This liturgical tradition lived on until the post Vatican II liturgy was implemented. Many churches had Masses scheduled in both Latin and Old Slavonic, but others were exclusively one or the other. One of the reasons that Vatican II allowed the greater use of the vernacular was that this Glagolitic Mass was celebrated in St. Peter’s Basilica during one of the sessions of the Council.
This does not mean that Mass should always be in the vernacular, since the language used in the Glagolitic liturgy was elevated, not just the language used on the street. It comes down to the fact that there needs to be a sacred language that we use to speak to God. That may be one of the reasons that the popularity of the Latin Mass has grown, sadly the Glagolitic Mass has not had the same rejuvenation."
http://praythemass.org/2012/01/catholic-mass-...

You're using "Sacred Tradition" incorrectly. It's not 'traditions' but "Tradition", two entirely different things. The language used in the Mass would be a tradition, not Sacred Tradition.

Yes, we are still to avoid meat on Fridays. We're required to do so during Lent, but during the rest of the year we may perform a charitable act or personal sacrifice in it's stead. It's in commemoration of and to more closely identify with Christ's passion, it's penitential and something that should be given thought to rather than done on auto-pilot. The media is responsible for yet again misinforming the public. I remember the "announcement" during the news one night that meatless Fridays had been done away with, when in fact that wasn't the case at all. However, it's not dogma.

I'll get to the rest of your post later on when I have more time. Thanks.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#406819 Dec 4, 2012
The idea that Martin Luther was the first Protestant is getting a bit old. Protestants have been around since the beginning (they protest sin).

He got noticed because the printing press made the Bible AND the 'news' available....and the RCC couldn't keep it quiet.

KayMarie

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#406820 Dec 4, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
PLEASE VALIDATE YOU ABOVE STATEMENT FROM GOD'S WORD...
IF YOU CAN'T THEN YOU ARE JUST BLOWING SMOKE...
QUESTION ..
WHY DO YOU ATTEMPT TO ESTABLISH SOMETHING AS TRUTH,
THAT HAS NO VALIDATION OR CREDIBILITY IN THE OLD ARE NEW TESTAMENT?
SOMETHING THAT IS ONLY A PERSONAL OPINION?
like much that is taught by THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
you can't prove BY any means THAT IT EVER exist...
GOD ONLY UNDERWRITES..THAT WHICH HE HAS SPOKEN FORTH AND SENT...
THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST
DOES NOT
SANCTIFY,..
VERIFY,...
CONSECRATE,... OR
VALIDATE,...
WHAT GOD HAS NOT SPOKEN FORTH.
JESUS SAID ...==>WHAT THE FATHER SAID.

Joh_8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that

===>I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.<==

==>THE HOLY GHOST SAYS WHAT HE HEARS FROM THE FATHER....

Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:

==>for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:<==

and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for

==>he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.<==

THE ROMAN CATHOLICS CHURCH ...

DOES NOT SAY WHAT THE FATHER SAYS...

IT SPEAKS FROM IT'S OWN IMAGINATIONS, AND CONJECTURE.

ASSUMPTIONS AND PRESUMPTUOUSNESS...

FANTASY AND FABLES

THAT HAS NOT EVER BEEN SPOKEN FORTH FROM THE FATHER...

in the Old or New Testament.

THEY EVIDENTLY BELIEVE THEMSELVES TO BE HIGHER THAT JESUS AND THE HOLY GHOST..RIGHT?

MY MY WHAT ARROGANCE...
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#406821 Dec 4, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
You wrote...
"If YOU knew ANYTHING about the vengeance of God, you would "get down on your knees" and repent of the condemning and judgmental hypocricy against (any and all) other Christians (especially Catholics)"......
~~~
WHY SHOULD I REPENT TO YOU,....
FOR GIVING YOU WHAT GOD HAS SAID
IN HIS...
WORD...

___
I am not posting here to suit your fantasy..
IT IS YOU
THAT
IS ATTEMPTING
TO RUB GOD'S NOSE
IN WHAT HE HAS SPOKEN FORTH
AND
CALLING GOD
A LIAR...
I have only told you what God has said...IN HIS WORD
Your repentance---(if you even have the humility to do so) is NOT to me Confrinting but to ALMIGHTY GOD HIMSELF!!.... Your condemning and judgmental ministry that is shown to be the "entire basis" of your bible only preaching is to aggressively and hostily attack and assault the personal Faith and Salvation of other Christians (especially Catholics...... When you do "nothing" but quote one bible verse after another, and then "interject your own hatefilled anti-catholic (personal opinion)to these verses by "deliberately mis-interpreting" the TRUE INTERPRETATION of the bible--you are in fact "Spitting in the face of Almighty God Himself". You are going to have a "lot of explaining to do" before God HIMSELF: in reference to I Corr 1:10-14 and Romans 14:10-13 regarding dividing AND separating of the body of Christ and condemning and judging of other Christians!!!
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#406822 Dec 4, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
You do know that it was taught and establish BEFORE there was such thing as Protestants...right?
Clay says.....

..You do know that it was taught and establish BEFORE there was such thing as Protestants...right.

Michael says..

..How can the church establish an entity such as Purgatory, if you believe Purgatory has always existed?

http://www.cogwriter.com/purgatory.htm

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#406823 Dec 4, 2012
4GVN wrote:
It goes way beyond illogical to believe that Jesus(the greatest teacher who ever lived) spent 3 and a half years with his disciples and taught them all about spiritual matters and about heaven and about hell. And taught them what a man must do to be saved and go to heaven that Jesus prepared for them. But somehow 'forgot' to mention a place as important as purgatory which is the only way that a sinful man can attain heaven. Scripture, nor any of the apostles tell us of this place. No one has ever been to this place and come back to tell us about it. But we are supposed to believe that it is real, and only the Catholics know about it.:{
Do you think his complete teachings are embodied within the Bible?

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#406824 Dec 4, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
Bob Loblaws says......
...In da case of da Chinks, dey deserved to suffer a little....as you do also.
Ps:.....You remain a schidt-for-brains.
Forever and Ever love
BobLoblah
MICHAEL says.....
Thats it Bob!.....Don't hold back.... Tell it like it is!
You should be the spokesman, for all christians on this forum. Keep up the good work. They love you too!
UNBELIEVABLE!
05Dec12.....

....and NOT only da Communist Chinks who have murdered countless millions of outsiders and more of their very own people, your neck should be thrown in also.

Ps:....Yeah. BobLoblah alveys tells it like it is. No foolin' around. The Jews and the Romans had their way with BobLoblah's Lord Jesus Christ and now its come tull circle to allow BobLoblah to call a spade a spade.

Thanks for da compliment...even though its coming from a schidt-for-brains like you 'shikael'.

Forever and Ever
BobLoblah

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#406825 Dec 4, 2012
who="hojo"
Your "negative exaggerated comments" continues to show "how desperate" you are in pushing your anti-catholic "hate and hostility" towards ANYONE who will be "stupid enough" to believe your "distorted Catholic (undermining and slanderous) rhetoric".
I'm sure that the bible only Protestants on this forum, are "sucking up" all of the National Inquire type of "trash" stories that keeps both (you and them) living in the "muck and mud" of anti-catholic vengeance---for --"four years now!!!! Wow!! Is that how long you have been "shackled in your hostile "bondage" against Jesus Christ and His One True Catholic Church?????? Again--look in the mirror Michael----and you will see "exactly what the problem is!!!

**********

I try not to be too fussy, because I hope above all things to lead people to TRUTH, not to a 'club' or 'doctrine'. But I find the 'National Inquirer type of "trash" stories' slam against Protestants (especially 'Bible only') to be very offensive.

KayMarie
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#406826 Dec 4, 2012
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
Good morning! If you don't mind, I'll answer your post in sections. I've got a busy day and thisand to more closely identify with Christ's passion, it's penitential and something that should be given thought to rather than done on auto-pilot. The media is responsible for yet again misinforming the public. I remember the "announcement" during the news one night that meatless Fridays had been done away with, when in fact that wasn't the case at all. However, it's not dogma.
I'll get to the rest of your post later on when I have more time. Thanks.
edited for space.....

Michael says....

....Vatican II has been a disaster.

.......Cardinal Carlo Martini one of the most prominent cardinals says....

......“The church is 200 years behind the times,” Cardinal Carlo Martini told an Italian journalist in comments he approved before his death in late August.“Why doesn’t it stir? Are we afraid?”
...can they not make up their minds!

http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/1...

.....The visible results of Vatican II are the discord between the vatican and 47,000 nuns in america.

....The stand firm group of nearly 1,000 AUSC american catholic priests (and growing) yes even from New Jersey, who want vatican II left alone and they too support the nuns in america not the hirearchy.

...The pope now wants Latin back in the mass, so those Spanish, German, Italian, English, French etc. masses that these ethnic people enjoy, if Benedict has his way, it will be back in Latin Only.

What a mess!

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#406828 Dec 4, 2012
who="hojo"
"No wonder" you left the Catholic Church! ANYONE knows that God is both a God of love and mercy as well as a God of justice and judgement ---as stated in Romans 10:14 where "each one of us will, eventually stand before the judgment seat of God to answer and give an account of our lives to HIM!!----You, Michael, must have been one of those Catholics that either "was asleep both in Confirmation AND in Mass---or ---did you just "not bother" to show up!!...... Now it explains why you "keep spreading" your liberal anti-catholic "distorted statistics, percentages and "hogwash" on this forum!!

*********

You two make an amazing pair. Michael is bitter about his experience with the Catholic church. You, hojo, are just as bitter about your experience with the Protestant church you were in.

Interesting to see how this one will turn out.

KayMarie
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#406829 Dec 4, 2012
_BobLoblah_ wrote:
<quoted text>05Dec12.....
....and NOT only da Communist Chinks who have murdered countless millions of outsiders and more of their very own people, your neck should be thrown in also.
Ps:....Yeah. BobLoblah alveys tells it like it is. No foolin' around. The Jews and the Romans had their way with BobLoblah's Lord Jesus Christ and now its come tull circle to allow BobLoblah to call a spade a spade.
Thanks for da compliment...even though its coming from a schidt-for-brains like you 'shikael'.
Forever and Ever
BobLoblah
Mr. Loblaws says......

....and NOT only da Communist Chinks who have murdered countless millions of outsiders and more of their very own people, your neck should be thrown in also.

Ps:....Yeah. BobLoblah alveys tells it like it is. No foolin' around. The Jews and the Romans had their way with BobLoblah's Lord Jesus Christ and now its come tull circle to allow BobLoblah to call a spade a spade.

Love forever and ever
bobloblah

Michael says.....

....Bob you speak so eloquently. The posters like that.

UNBELIEVABLE!!
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#406830 Dec 4, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Yawn.
Compared to other times in the Churchs 2,000 yr history, this is nothing.
You just discovered the internet, so you think its news.
Hey, why do you even care? Are you that insecure about your choice to leave Catholicism? Or ya just a plain old sociopath??
Why so angry my friend!

....you are starting to sound just like Bob Loblaws.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#406831 Dec 4, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Yawn.
Compared to other times in the Churchs 2,000 yr history, this is nothing.
You just discovered the internet, so you think its news.
Hey, why do you even care? Are you that insecure about your choice to leave Catholicism? Or ya just a plain old sociopath??
Clay says.....

......Compared to other times in the Churchs 2,000 yr history, this is nothing.

Michael says.....

.....why would there have been other times in your churches history if your church states it is the ONE TRUE CHURCH?

The people must be wrong! thats it!

If the holy spirit is suppose to be guiding the church authorities, why have there have been many bumpy rides along the way?

something is terribly wrong!
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#406832 Dec 4, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
You wrote...
"If YOU knew ANYTHING about the vengeance of God, you would "get down on your knees" and repent of the condemning and judgmental hypocricy against (any and all) other Christians (especially Catholics)"......
~~~
WHY SHOULD I REPENT TO YOU,....
FOR GIVING YOU WHAT GOD HAS SAID
IN HIS...
WORD...
From the 100's of past comments that you have posted on this forum, Confrinting, they are ALL a "clear indication" that repentance (not to me)---BUT TO ALMIGHTY GOD HIMSELF (never is nor ever has been, nor ever seems to be) a part of your Christian doctrine of belief........ Repentance and confession requires humility, meekness, submission and trustful Surrender to Gods Divine Providence!.......Quite frankly, it takes, every bit of my own humility from Gods Grace, to go to confession for putting up with the anti-catholic heresy and hostile distorted statements that you are "so famous for!!.

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