Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 603236 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#405973 Nov 30, 2012
Anthony: You didn't answer the questions. Stop diverting and answer the questions. Here, I will give you another chance.
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Baptism doesn't guarantee salvation. No, I don't think the bad popes, if they died unrepentent, are in heaven. Many self-described 'born again' and 'saved' evangelicals are ungodly and unchristian. That's why belief in OSAS is so dangerous.
RESPONSE:...Interesting. Then what do you believe was the state of the RCC during the reign of these ungodly men? Do you believe that a non-christian is indwelt with the holy Spirit? Do you believe that the Holy Spirit guides lost people? Do you believe that one of these lost,unchristian people could be the 'VICAR of CHRIST'? ce..........
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#405974 Nov 30, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
The word "gospel" means good news. If you're disappointed with my saying that the gospel is the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ, well, I guess I'm not very good at using slogans.
Would you rather I just pasted St. Peter's exhortation in Acts 2 here? Or does your faith community have an abridged version? I love what he says. Incidently, it supports the idea that he was the leader of the apostles, the necessity of baptism, infant baptism, etc.
Hmmm, No, I would say that you are not very good at telling the good news. Or do you have any?

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#405975 Nov 30, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't get it.
Supposedly - "God" gives permission to another entity to allow abuse of "His" child.
First off, if your "God" allowed this, then it is a game to "Him".
If your "God" was loving, then he would have 'smited' "Satan" immediately, but oh no....."He" allows the abuse to go on.
Unfortunately, you and other so-called "Christians" play the "persistence of faith in God" card.
Our Father doesn't do this, especially being a "being of love".
But you are still in a frame of mind that includes "pain and torture", "destruction", and "abuse" to an individual, so he can show that he will not waver fromt he ordeal, and instead wait for the positives to come after all is said and done ('the game'), without seeing any alternatives.
Most men are not like this. And also IMO - the allegoric symbolism is not "literal".
This is what men have told you to believe - and you've accepted it.
I'm not sure why you just can't believe that all men have "demons" that plummet us. Did you ever think that this is the symbolism that the story refers to?
- we all can overcome difficulty if we are persistant in our stance and there can be a reward at the end of the difficult tasks - if one seeks it out.
Only we can destroy our own life, otherwise, "God" would be stepping in more often. In one instance, would be allowing a little girl to get home, before she froze to death.
You aren't using logic in your faith.
NASL

How convenient....Demons draw us to darkness, because they are a part of us? You give no thought about free-will....
Well, if you can't blame Satan, blame demons....

Being responsible, and doing the right thing is not always apparently profitable. It could get you crucified. Jesus is salvation.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#405976 Nov 30, 2012
The Roman Catholic Gospel(the GOOD news)......... IF someone poors water on my head when I am an infant, and IF I grow up in the Catholic Church, and IF I go to confirmation, and IF I keep the commandments, and IF I go to confession at least once a year, and IF I partake in all of the sacriments, and IF I pray the rosery, and IF I don't die with any mortal sin, then I MIGHT go to Purgatory for hundreds, or thousands, or millions of years(no one knows for sure), and if anyone remembers to keep praying for me to get out of Purgatory, then I MIGHT get to go to heaven. Is that the GOOD NEWS of Roman Catholicism?

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#405977 Nov 30, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Key word in all of the statemenst is "if".
Again you speculate.
Self.
NASL

Key word...."if", and "then" are statements of logic, not speculation....

So prove that a circle is a square....Your faith and logic is wrong.
So prove that a stick has one end....Your faith and logic is wrong.
So prove that free-will doesn't exist....Your faith and logic is wrong.

I say a circle is not a square.
I say a stick has two ends.
I say free-will means there is good and evil.

You are lost in deep darkness.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#405978 Nov 30, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Do you think that salvation is ALL there is to Christianity? Your question shows a definate lack of thinking and understanding as to what all the bible and Christianity consist of. As I am sure I have stated before you do not understand the difference between salvation and discipleship.
I'm not sure I understand your question. Salvation is, in fact, the point of "Christianity".
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#405979 Nov 30, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Well show me the statement you are in reference to. I would love to see Peter's reference to infant baptism.
"Do penance: and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with very many other words did he testify and exhort them, saying: Save yourselves from this perverse generation. 41 They therefore that received his word were baptized: and there were added in that day about three thousand souls."

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#405980 Nov 30, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
You don't get it.
Supposedly - "God" gives permission to another entity to allow abuse of "His" child.
First off, if your "God" allowed this, then it is a game to "Him".
If your "God" was loving, then he would have 'smited' "Satan" immediately, but oh no....."He" allows the abuse to go on.
Unfortunately, you and other so-called "Christians" play the "persistence of faith in God" card.
Our Father doesn't do this, especially being a "being of love".
But you are still in a frame of mind that includes "pain and torture", "destruction", and "abuse" to an individual, so he can show that he will not waver fromt he ordeal, and instead wait for the positives to come after all is said and done ('the game'), without seeing any alternatives.
Most men are not like this. And also IMO - the allegoric symbolism is not "literal".
This is what men have told you to believe - and you've accepted it.
I'm not sure why you just can't believe that all men have "demons" that plummet us. Did you ever think that this is the symbolism that the story refers to?
- we all can overcome difficulty if we are persistant in our stance and there can be a reward at the end of the difficult tasks - if one seeks it out.
Only we can destroy our own life, otherwise, "God" would be stepping in more often. In one instance, would be allowing a little girl to get home, before she froze to death.
You aren't using logic in your faith.
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
NASL
How convenient....Demons draw us to darkness, because they are a part of us? You give no thought about free-will....
Well, if you can't blame Satan, blame demons....
Being responsible, and doing the right thing is not always apparently profitable. It could get you crucified. Jesus is salvation.
Convenient? No.

Honest - yes.

I wrote, as above, "I'm not sure why you just can't believe that all men have "demons" that plummet us. Did you ever think that this is the symbolism that the story refers to?"

"demons" = vices, addictions, challenges we go through.

We are all haunted by things we've done, or even may apply to our current life activities. Since you taken the word to have a literal meaning, as you seem to be a "literalist" when it comes to the Bible, then I will have to beg your pardon, and stop discussing these issues we all have to face, in order to get to some sort of "salvation".

You seem to not have any "demons", so I guess you are already like Job - righteous.

Carry on.
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#405981 Nov 30, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
"Do penance: and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with very many other words did he testify and exhort them, saying: Save yourselves from this perverse generation. 41 They therefore that received his word were baptized: and there were added in that day about three thousand souls."
Sorry Anthony, but there is no infant baptism here.
"Do penance and be baptized". Infants can't do that.
"The promise is to you and you children and to those that are (far off)[those who haven't even been born yet]". They aren't to be baptised now either. He is talking about the generations You,your children and those far off.(your children's children and so on.)
"THEY that RECIEVED HIS WORD were baptised" no infants here.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#405982 Nov 30, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>sorry, Hank, but the Bible experiences indicate otherwise. those who received the Holy Ghost were Baptised after they had received that gift. Why is that?
My Experience(John 7:39) which is Biblical also proves that a person doesnt receive the Holy Ghost when they are Baptised in water since mine occurred 9 months and 1 days before I was Baptised in water.
tho Acts 2:38 says to repent, be Baptised and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, at no time is Peter indicating at a certain time when this Experience of this indwelling will occurr.
go by what the Bible clearly indicates ,and that is that no indwelling ever occurred when any person in the Bible was Baptsied.
and not what your church or any other church teaches. go by what the Bible clearly shows.I know what you have been taught and you believe that you have been taught correctly but your teachings and everybody elses teaching must conform to the examples given to us by God Himself.
I know the Bible says that Baptism washes away sin, but it doesnt.it is clearly misunderstood by many. it takes the Blood of Jesus to do that
I saw this article, you might enjoy reading it.http://www.answers2prayer.o rg/bible_questions/Answers/bap tism/wash_away.html
It is clear here that baptism doesn’t wash away sin, but is an outward declaration that we want to live with Jesus who is the only one who can forgive our sins. It cannot be intended that the external rite of baptism was sufficient to make you pure, but that it was an ordinance appointed by Jesus as a public expression of the washing away of sins, or of the purification of the heart.

(snipped for space)
Hey Preston,

I know that you disagree with me and that is fine...I respect you for that....

Just a little message for you:

John 7:38-39

38 Whoever [believes] in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”

39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

***Believes = will receive

***Will receive what = Holy Spirit (later to receive)

***Spirit had not been given = Jesus had not yet been glorified

A promise that was foretold by scriptures:

Isaiah 44:3

3 For I will pour water on the thirsty land,
and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring,
and my blessing on your descendants.

The Holy Spirit was given after the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ to the right hand of the Father and was glorified.

Book of Acts Chapter 1 & 2, he (God) sent forth the Spirit upon His apostles on the day of Pentecost.(No water and no blood required)

God speaking through the Apostle Peter:

Acts 2:38

38 Peter replied,“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Why in the name of Jesus Christ???

Jesus' blood (spiritual)

Why be baptized???

For the forgiveness of your sins

And receive what???

The gift of the Holy Spirit

Why???

Because the Holy Spirit had already been poured out and Jesus had already been glorified.

Acts 5:32

32 We (APOSTLES) are ~~~~~witnesses of these things,~~~~~ and [[[[[so is the Holy Spirit,]]]]]****whom God has given to those who obey him.”*****

God working in baptism....ABSOLUTELY!!!

Romans 8:9-10

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but <<<<<are in the realm of the Spirit,>>>>> if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.*****And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.*****

10 ~~~~~But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to DEATH~~~~~ because of <SIN,> [[[[[the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.]]]]]
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#405983 Nov 30, 2012
4GVN wrote:
Anthony: You didn't answer the questions. Stop diverting and answer the questions. Here, I will give you another chance.
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Baptism doesn't guarantee salvation. No, I don't think the bad popes, if they died unrepentent, are in heaven. Many self-described 'born again' and 'saved' evangelicals are ungodly and unchristian. That's why belief in OSAS is so dangerous.
RESPONSE:...Interesting. Then what do you believe was the state of the RCC during the reign of these ungodly men? Do you believe that a non-christian is indwelt with the holy Spirit? Do you believe that the Holy Spirit guides lost people? Do you believe that one of these lost,unchristian people could be the 'VICAR of CHRIST'? ce..........
I always answer your questions. Would that you would give me the same courtesy.

"Then what do you believe was the state of the RCC during the reign of these ungodly men?"

The Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, was preaching the gospel. These "ungodly" men (even though you are in no position to judge) were sinners. Just like you and me.

"Do you believe that a non-christian is indwelt with the holy Spirit?"

No, I don't believe that. Do you believe you are able to judge whether someone is a Christian because they sin?

"Do you believe that the Holy Spirit guides lost people?"

Yes. We're not OSAS.

"Do you believe that one of these lost,unchristian people could be the 'VICAR of CHRIST'?"

We really have a language barrier here. Do you consider every person who sins a "lost, unchristian"? No, I believe a "lost, NON-Christian" could not be appointed the Vicar of Christ. But if you mean to imply that you know for certain that these men weren't Christians and that they did not repent before death and that everyone who is a "saved Christian" never sins, well, you've got quite the line of communication with God that no one else has.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#405984 Nov 30, 2012
4GVN wrote:
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Baptism doesn't guarantee salvation. No, I don't think the bad popes, if they died unrepentent, are in heaven. Many self-described 'born again' and 'saved' evangelicals are ungodly and unchristian. That's why belief in OSAS is so dangerous.
RESPONSE:...Interesting. Then what do you believe was the state of the RCC during the reign of these ungodly men? Do you believe that a non-christian is indwelt with the holy Spirit? Do you believe that the Holy Spirit guides lost people? Do you believe that one of these lost,unchristian people could be the 'VICAR of CHRIST'?
4GVN

Each question you give is an interesting one....

First off the RCC is not an institution, like a man-made government, that rises and falls as a worldly government or kingdom....

But let me give you a counter-question..., After Jesus was baptised, and went 40 days in the wilderness, he encountered Satan who tempted him. While in the wilderness, Jesus(being filled with the Holy Spirit) was taken(if you read Matthews account) or led(if you read Lukes's account) by Satan, to certain places. Does this mean that Jesus was a follower of Satan?

Likewise, a person following Jesus cannot be taken or led by Satan.
The Church cannot be taken or led by Satan. Individuals in the Church can be tempted and do sin, including Popes, and followers of Popes. But the Church(being filled with the Holy Spirit), being united with Jesus (being filled with the Holy Spirit) does not sin.

If we walk with Jesus, and Jesus walks with us..., if we abide, then we don't sin. It is both a real and metaphysical reality....
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#405985 Nov 30, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Hmmm, No, I would say that you are not very good at telling the good news. Or do you have any?
Why do you always turn nasty? That's not very Christian of you.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#405986 Nov 30, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
NASL
How convenient....Demons draw us to darkness, because they are a part of us? You give no thought about free-will....
Well, if you can't blame Satan, blame demons....
Being responsible, and doing the right thing is not always apparently profitable. It could get you crucified. Jesus is salvation.
BTW Robert - I don't blame "Satan" or any entity for things that are bad.

Although, and you should agree with this, many individuals on this forum and in the world do.

But when asked where they get their justification to do so, as always, you never see an answer from them.

Where's the honesty?

A: people are scared to admit the truths that they don't understand, and would rather place blame on someone else, instead of owning it.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#405987 Nov 30, 2012
Why would an all loving, all inclusive son of God Jesus claim that women under no circumstance are equal to a man in the capacity as a clergy member, and not have any policy making abilities within the church structure, but they are allowed to bring their vacuum cleaners to church to clean and vacuum the altar. Thats their job.

Educated people today wonder why so many catholic women believe celbacy should be optional and women as priests should be equal in all respects to church decision making.

Why on earth would God place women at a lower standard than men and blatantly descriminate against them?

I personally believe the hirearchy of the church, a bunch of old women hating men do not want women to ever be equal to them in all capacities.

An !ALL! loving God would never establish such descrimintation between his creation of men and women.

The catholic church has an agenda, and it wasn't created by an ALL loving, equality for all! man/god Jesus.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#405988 Nov 30, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
NASL
Key word...."if", and "then" are statements of logic, not speculation....
So prove that a circle is a square....Your faith and logic is wrong.
So prove that a stick has one end....Your faith and logic is wrong.
So prove that free-will doesn't exist....Your faith and logic is wrong.
I say a circle is not a square.
I say a stick has two ends.
I say free-will means there is good and evil.
You are lost in deep darkness.
The duality of the life. Amazing isn't it.

Good/evil
"God"/"Satan "

No I am not lost in any type of darkness, but I guess you would know me better than myself, huh?

Do you see your arrogance in thinking you know another person's life? It really doesn't surprise me at all, because all the Catholics, I've ever discussed this with, all seem to be the same way....they know what is best for me, even though don't haven't a clue on what I do, where I go, or why I do things.

Sounds to me, that you'll need to step into the confessional and ask for forgiveness of judging others.

Please show me why I am "lost in deep darkness"?

BTW - I'm still waiting on where "God" has stated Gnosticism is heresy. For that matter - where has "He" stated that any religion is heresy?

Free-will = Self / Spirit / being / and "of the mind" = MORAL
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#405989 Nov 30, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure I understand your question. Salvation is, in fact, the point of "Christianity".
Anthony says...

Salvation is, in fact, the point of "Christianity".

Michael says....

You claim you love Jesus, you know all his stories, you claim you read everything about him and adore him, and love his mother too and everything about her. If Jesus as you believe never offered salvation, would you really give a damn about a man named Jesus or his mother, then?

Is promised Salvation the ONLY reason you claim you love Jesus? Would you continue to read and learn about his history and what he did throughout his life if Salvation was not his forte?

Its like strangers in a bar, and a guy at the bar yells "free drinks for everyone" all of a sudden everyone loves this new friend they found..........ONLY because he gave them something.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#405990 Nov 30, 2012
4GVN wrote:
The Roman Catholic Gospel(the GOOD news)......... IF someone poors water on my head when I am an infant, and IF I grow up in the Catholic Church, and IF I go to confirmation, and IF I keep the commandments, and IF I go to confession at least once a year, and IF I partake in all of the sacriments, and IF I pray the rosery, and IF I don't die with any mortal sin, then I MIGHT go to Purgatory for hundreds, or thousands, or millions of years(no one knows for sure), and if anyone remembers to keep praying for me to get out of Purgatory, then I MIGHT get to go to heaven. Is that the GOOD NEWS of Roman Catholicism?
Well, I can say for certain that bearing false witness, or in this case intentionally lying about one's faith, is not indicative of a "saved Christian". Keeping working on it my friend.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#405991 Nov 30, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry Anthony, but there is no infant baptism here.
"Do penance and be baptized". Infants can't do that.
"The promise is to you and you children and to those that are (far off)[those who haven't even been born yet]". They aren't to be baptised now either. He is talking about the generations You,your children and those far off.(your children's children and so on.)
"THEY that RECIEVED HIS WORD were baptised" no infants here.
Thanks for your opinion.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#405992 Nov 30, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>

First off the RCC is not an institution, like a man-made government, that rises and falls as a worldly government or kingdom....
Correct, it's just an institution that liked to change the doctrine when other so-called "Catholics" were in disagreement.

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Wars-Patriarchs-E...

Your hypostatic union was a developed concept.

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