Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 679242 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

ReginaM

Point Pleasant Beach, NJ

#405657 Nov 28, 2012
ARTICLE 5
"HE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN"

631 Jesus "descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens."476 The Apostles' Creed confesses in the same article Christ's descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:

Paragraph 1. Christ Descended into Hell

632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.478 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.479

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom":481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483

634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."484 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus' messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ's redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."485 Jesus, "the Author of life", by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."486 Henceforth the risen Christ holds "the keys of Death and Hades", so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."487
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive...
marge

Leesburg, GA

#405658 Nov 28, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
ReginaM
Peace
Thank you....
It is not really spoken about much. I haven't seen it on this thread. And I would like to see some of the non-Catholics thinkings or beliefs concerning the belief that Jesus descended into hell, and on the third day he rose again....
I believe that's what it says, do you have the Bible verses Robert?
preston

Athens, OH

#405659 Nov 28, 2012
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
Peace to you as well, my friend.
Did you read the link from the Catechism? It cites the scriptural references and explains the meaning of Christ's descending to the dead (hell). As you know, the Profession of Faith (Nicene Creed) differs slightly in its wording from the Apostles' Creed, but they're essentially the same. It is our Profession of Faith that we recite every Sunday at Holy Mass. The Apostles' Creed is prayed at other times and sometimes at children's Masses.
I think it might have been mentioned here once, as far as I recall. But that was quite a while ago. I agree, it would be interesting to hear the Protestant take on it.
I would loved to have got into that discussion, however when i posted, someone gave me a burnt out light bulb, a peanut which I am allergic to, and a lemon, but no water to make any lemonade which I love, nor any sugar, which would help me to overcome their bitterness.lol

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#405660 Nov 28, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>just what are you wishing to discuss?
one problem that the Creed has(concerning a waiting room, for lack of a better term and I most certainly am not mocking what it means)is that on the Day of His death, many saints came out of the graves and were seen by many, so who did He Preach to, and why?.
this beats other discussions that we have went over and over.
so what are the parameters?
preston

I am not talking about "limbo" or Purgatory, but the Creed in saying he descended into hell....

After his resurrection, yes indeed many saints came out of the grave, as the Bible states. But what was Jesus doing in the realm of the dead, even to hell itself? Some say that he "preached" to the dead, and his words are what caused the "many saints" to rise when He was resurrected. The Bible has a few "clues".
Michael

Canada

#405661 Nov 28, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Michael
lol....You don't get it....NASL thinks its just a mind game, where one can play the 10 Commandments is just some perception, or thought....
You take it as that, or a species defect....That isn't much better, except you added the condition "imperfect beings", which give it a "better" sound.
Your either/or scenario....lol.
It is a moral law..., still in the Bible, and in the U.S. Supreme Courtroom(much to the dislike of atheists.
You read too much into my post.

I have never stated I am an atheist so your subliminal statement about atheists do not apply to me.

My point was for those that believe in a deity, that the deity is perfect without sin. Humans are imperfect beings and subject to committing sin or breaking laws. Some more than others. That is why religious people claim we are all sinners.

I wouldn't state that atheists are against rules and regulations. Religious people tend to believe for some reason that its all the non religious people who commit crime. That is a dangerous and narrow view.

My understanding is in america per capta there are more christians in jail for breaking the laws (commandments) than non religious people.

You make a blanket statement about those that are not christian, I guess that has to do with the way you were raised. I remember it well.

I like all people and I don't claim anyone better than anyone else regardless of their belief or non belief. Religious people haven't got to that level of awareness yet.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#405662 Nov 28, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
Sheep......
According to the roman catholic bishops conference just a couple years back state that across america about 25% of roman catholics attend mandatory sunday service.
Western europe statistics are even bleaker.
The big question is WHY? Why are so many leaving and why do so many not practice their faith, or practice it regularily as their parents and grand parents did.
I am surprised that the vatican still sits on their hands with this dilema. There is no wholesale turnaround in sight.
Why? Education! Just think about how things were just 40 years ago. How much outside influence did most children have? a few channels on TV, school, and family friends. Now how much do they have?

catholic mass was done in Latin, fish was eaten on Friday, purgatory was a 'real' place, a divorce and following in love with a non-catholic meant excommunication! None of which has its basis in the bible.

Today, kids are exposed to the internet and all that comes with it. How many tv channels do you get? 200? 300? How many of them are movie channels that show R rated movies, any time of the day. How many people are divorced? Should they be damned to hell for that?

The catholic church, instead of standing by its long held assertions, caved. They admitted that they were wrong about so many things. Ergo, they are not controlled or guided by a prefect god!

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#405663 Nov 28, 2012
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that's what it says, do you have the Bible verses Robert?
marge good friend

A good place to start might be I Peter 4:6

" For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
Michael

Canada

#405664 Nov 28, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Michael
lol....You don't get it....NASL thinks its just a mind game, where one can play the 10 Commandments is just some perception, or thought....
You take it as that, or a species defect....That isn't much better, except you added the condition "imperfect beings", which give it a "better" sound.
Your either/or scenario....lol.
It is a moral law..., still in the Bible, and in the U.S. Supreme Courtroom(much to the dislike of atheists.
Just curious Robert.

For months you referred to me as "Michael good friend" I noticed you don't do that anymore. Interesting??

How do you determine who is a good friend and who isn't? Please don't tell me its based on what ones religious belief is.





Michael

Canada

#405665 Nov 28, 2012
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Why? Education! Just think about how things were just 40 years ago. How much outside influence did most children have? a few channels on TV, school, and family friends. Now how much do they have?
catholic mass was done in Latin, fish was eaten on Friday, purgatory was a 'real' place, a divorce and following in love with a non-catholic meant excommunication! None of which has its basis in the bible.
Today, kids are exposed to the internet and all that comes with it. How many tv channels do you get? 200? 300? How many of them are movie channels that show R rated movies, any time of the day. How many people are divorced? Should they be damned to hell for that?
The catholic church, instead of standing by its long held assertions, caved. They admitted that they were wrong about so many things. Ergo, they are not controlled or guided by a prefect god!
The black sheep....says

......catholic mass was done in Latin, fish was eaten on Friday, purgatory was a 'real' place, a divorce and following in love with a non-catholic meant excommunication! None of which has its basis in the bible.

....add a few more, church only traditions, clergy were only referred to by their title and LAST name not Father Billy or Father Tommy, priests drove ONLY black cars, and all the nuns wore only habits.

we have come a long way baby!

As you say today we have availability of information that we could only dream about 20 years ago. We can learn off line anything a priest learns in the seminary ourselves. We can now question what we didn't know about before.

The past two generations for the first time in our history people are not afraid to ask questions about their belief. I remember in catholic grade school even in grade 1 when I would ask the nun or other teachers things we were being taught in religion and they would all scream back "JUST BELIEVE IT"!!!

That is not what educated people accept today. They want answers and they are not afraid to ask. The way it should be.
Michael

Canada

#405666 Nov 28, 2012
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Why? Education! Just think about how things were just 40 years ago. How much outside influence did most children have? a few channels on TV, school, and family friends. Now how much do they have?
catholic mass was done in Latin, fish was eaten on Friday, purgatory was a 'real' place, a divorce and following in love with a non-catholic meant excommunication! None of which has its basis in the bible.
Today, kids are exposed to the internet and all that comes with it. How many tv channels do you get? 200? 300? How many of them are movie channels that show R rated movies, any time of the day. How many people are divorced? Should they be damned to hell for that?
The catholic church, instead of standing by its long held assertions, caved. They admitted that they were wrong about so many things. Ergo, they are not controlled or guided by a prefect god!
Vatican II has been the curse to this current Pope. Benedict wants to reverse most of what was instituted back in the early 60s. The nuns back in the day were given latitude to get out in the world and educate themselves work in hospitals etc, and dress in smart street clothes if they wished. Many nuns became as educated as bishops and bishops many of them women haters didn't like that one bit. Now the pope wants all nuns back to the convent, and wear their habits only.

Vatican II allowed cultural cities to say the mass in any laguage that suited the population, now the pope wants that out and latin only back in.

Within the catholic church itself we now have priests in several countries including the USA forming associations and mostly to do with them being educated in Vatican II only policies. Clashes for sure will result as more priests join these unions in a unified voice that they no longer have with their authorities.

More big changes are coming. It will be interesting who the next pope will be but I am sure this pope will have a lot of influence on these current voting cardinals regardless of what catholics claim the holy spirit inspires the voting cardinals of who to vote for.

ReginaM

Point Pleasant Beach, NJ

#405667 Nov 28, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>I would loved to have got into that discussion, however when i posted, someone gave me a burnt out light bulb, a peanut which I am allergic to, and a lemon, but no water to make any lemonade which I love, nor any sugar, which would help me to overcome their bitterness.lol
lol, I saw that. They just gave them to you again. Someone's playing games, just ignore them. Join in the discussion, Preston! I agree that it would be nice to talk about something different for a change.

Christ descended to the dead, he preached the Good News to the just souls awaiting their redemption, for the gates of Heaven to be opened to them.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#405668 Nov 28, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
You read too much into my post.
I have never stated I am an atheist so your subliminal statement about atheists do not apply to me.
My point was for those that believe in a deity, that the deity is perfect without sin. Humans are imperfect beings and subject to committing sin or breaking laws. Some more than others. That is why religious people claim we are all sinners.
I wouldn't state that atheists are against rules and regulations. Religious people tend to believe for some reason that its all the non religious people who commit crime. That is a dangerous and narrow view.
My understanding is in america per capta there are more christians in jail for breaking the laws (commandments) than non religious people.
You make a blanket statement about those that are not christian, I guess that has to do with the way you were raised. I remember it well.
I like all people and I don't claim anyone better than anyone else regardless of their belief or non belief. Religious people haven't got to that level of awareness yet.
Michael

I am sorry. I did not intend to say, or imply(subliminally) that you were an atheist.

However, your calling human beings a "species", makes me think in a scientific/biologic sense, and atheists tend to gravitate toward that way of thinking.

Thus they have no use for moral law, and detest it being in the Bible and Supreme Court.(There is a branch of moral law which is nihilistic..., but I have not gone into it.)

Your "crying out in the wilderess", message of equality for believers and non-believers, just is not going to work. Christianity stands out, that was why the Roman Empire sought to destroy it. It did not conform to your message of equality. And it is for this reason, Christianity did not go into the Pantheon of the gods of Rome. It doesn't conform to the rules of men, their rulers, and rules of this world....

This fight goes on today. So the question you should answer is why? Why do Muslim countries ban it, communist countries, crush it out, socialism try to neutralize it, democratic countries tolerate it? Christianity is just too different....

Just a thought..., Maybe your toleration is only a reflection of your "democratization, and is shifting toward socialism which "neutralizes"....

Stand up for Jesus, as the song goes, but also bend the knee....Remember....Remember what you did in the RCC.
Michael

Canada

#405669 Nov 28, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Michael
lol....You don't get it....NASL thinks its just a mind game, where one can play the 10 Commandments is just some perception, or thought....
You take it as that, or a species defect....That isn't much better, except you added the condition "imperfect beings", which give it a "better" sound.
Your either/or scenario....lol.
It is a moral law..., still in the Bible, and in the U.S. Supreme Courtroom(much to the dislike of atheists.
Vatican implosion, or a lot to do about nothing.

Inquiring minds want to know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#405670 Nov 28, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
Just curious Robert.
For months you referred to me as "Michael good friend" I noticed you don't do that anymore. Interesting??
How do you determine who is a good friend and who isn't? Please don't tell me its based on what ones religious belief is.
Michael good friend

I am a bit tired, and the day is well spent for me.

Some people prefer a rather direct address, though I consider all to be friends.

I am glad you noticed.

Some people are put off by the thought of having a "good friend". And they don't know how to respond....

Its sometimes the very simple things that confound people....

I must sign off for now but will be back again tomorrow, God willing....

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#405671 Nov 28, 2012
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
lol, I saw that. They just gave them to you again. Someone's playing games, just ignore them. Join in the discussion, Preston! I agree that it would be nice to talk about something different for a change.
Christ descended to the dead, he preached the Good News to the just souls awaiting their redemption, for the gates of Heaven to be opened to them.
ReginaM
Peace

Just a thought before I sign off, when did the New Creation begin, in a real and a metaphysical sense?

I will see you tomorrow God willing....

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#405672 Nov 28, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Thus they have no use for moral law, and detest it being in the Bible and Supreme Court.
That is just stupid.
Michael

Canada

#405673 Nov 28, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Michael
I am sorry. I did not intend to say, or imply(subliminally) that you were an atheist.
However, your calling human beings a "species", makes me think in a scientific/biologic sense, and atheists tend to gravitate toward that way of thinking.
Thus they have no use for moral law, and detest it being in the Bible and Supreme Court.(There is a branch of moral law which is nihilistic..., but I have not gone into it.)
Your "crying out in the wilderess", message of equality for believers and non-believers, just is not going to work. Christianity stands out, that was why the Roman Empire sought to destroy it. It did not conform to your message of equality. And it is for this reason, Christianity did not go into the Pantheon of the gods of Rome. It doesn't conform to the rules of men, their rulers, and rules of this world....
This fight goes on today. So the question you should answer is why? Why do Muslim countries ban it, communist countries, crush it out, socialism try to neutralize it, democratic countries tolerate it? Christianity is just too different....
Just a thought..., Maybe your toleration is only a reflection of your "democratization, and is shifting toward socialism which "neutralizes"....
Stand up for Jesus, as the song goes, but also bend the knee....Remember....Remember what you did in the RCC.
I am not a socialist, I am a capitalist. Strike 1.

You say we are not a species, so then you believe that homo-sapiens as we are have always existed and there never were Neandrathal, or homo erectus, prior to our current position? Is that what you are saying?

Robert says.....

Why do Muslim countries ban it, communist countries, crush it out, socialism try to neutralize it.

Michael says...

All religious people in america should be joyful in celebrating the fact that we live in a secular society that allows all religious people to practice their religion and those that have no religion in peace without fearing imposition of someone elses belief upon them. This would not be allowed in a theocracy. The catholic church itself is a theocracy.

Example, women are allowed to attend and participate in catholic church traditions and customs but ARE NOT ALLOWED to create or participate in any policy making whatsoever in church papal documents, canon laws, or rules and regulations pertaining to the catholic church. I can't believe that TODAY we still have some women that submit to this archaeic theocracy way of thinking. American catholic nuns themselves have been most vocal on this policy, as have the NEWLY formed roman catholic american priest association AUSCP.

When the most holy of catholics priests and nuns start questioning the authority of the roman catholic church, it is clear that there are many deep seated serious issues within the walls of the church.

Most american catholics and many priests believe celebacy should be optional. Many roman catholics believe women could be ordained priests. The pope screams NO!

Movements around the world have catholics wanting more autonomy within the churh and that lay people have more say on who their parish priest and bishop is.

Big changes are coming, and its the people in the pews who want the changes.






“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#405674 Nov 28, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello NASL
It all comes down to the way of thinking, and not being within faith for you....
Of course thinking and the correct teaching are important, and some are taught that way from the start, and become quite capable, but the faith comes first for most. And when approached correctly, faith with reason is the way....
Here you go again, making up another supposition about me - "...and not being within faith for you..."
- when did you arrive inside my mind?
- BTW - this is Self, if you think the first part of your first statement is true - "It all comes down to the way of thinking, and not being within faith".
- And yes I have "faith" - everyone does....I am not different than you in that regard. It is just my faith lies in a belief that has given me more - IMO - evidence worthy of believing them to be true. Whereas, you set aside that evidence and only accept what certain men have presented for you to believe and then place faith in those words. Sounds to me you have your 'faith' in men instead of Jesus.

"And when approached correctly, faith with reason is the way..."
- reason, logic and accuracy are more correct traits.
- I use reason, in my faith, everyday. Logic and accuracy came naturally as I researched what I chose to believe. And that doesn't mean to only use a certain selection of texts (as you do), nor does it mean to only use a certain selection of sources that are outside the belief being researched - as one can find nuggets of information and possible details where one least expects it.
preston

Athens, OH

#405675 Nov 28, 2012
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
lol, I saw that. They just gave them to you again. Someone's playing games, just ignore them. Join in the discussion, Preston! I agree that it would be nice to talk about something different for a change.
Christ descended to the dead, he preached the Good News to the just souls awaiting their redemption, for the gates of Heaven to be opened to them.
here is an interesting prophecy given centuries before.

Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Is 26:19

and we know (I think we know) that those who came out of the graves came out after Jesus, since He is the First Fruit.

and we know(I think we know) that these men, probably women too, were Holy Saints that were known(I think)in that Holy City.

now we come to the hard part.

Jesus Preached to those who were left(I think) and those are ,or will be waiting for the Great Resurrection, I think.

guess that anyone can tell how sure that I am.lol

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#405676 Nov 28, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Michael
lol....You don't get it....NASL thinks its just a mind game, where one can play the 10 Commandments is just some perception, or thought....
You take it as that, or a species defect....That isn't much better, except you added the condition "imperfect beings", which give it a "better" sound.
Your either/or scenario....lol.
It is a moral law..., still in the Bible, and in the U.S. Supreme Courtroom(much to the dislike of atheists.
You really don't understand, huh? I'm truly sorry, I am trying to help you overcome this misunderstanding, whether you think you or not.

We'll try with you own words this time.

Please not definition #7 within 'moral' below.

Self.

Move past the words and understand their meanings.

"Moral law"
**********

mor·al
[mawr-uh&#8201;l, mor-]
adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.
4. capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being.
5. conforming to the rules of right conduct (opposed to immoral): a moral man.
6. virtuous in sexual matters; chaste.
7. of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support.
8. resting upon convincing grounds of probability; virtual: a moral certainty.

law
1 [law]
noun
1. the principles and regulations established in a community by some authority and applicable to its people, whether in the form of legislation or of custom and policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision.
2. any written or positive rule or collection of rules prescribed under the authority of the state or nation, as by the people in its constitution. Compare bylaw, statute law.
3. the controlling influence of such rules; the condition of society brought about by their observance: maintaining law and order.
4. a system or collection of such rules.
5. the department of knowledge concerned with these rules; jurisprudence: to study law.

*in his best Forrest Gump voice*
"That's all I have to say about that."

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