Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.
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389,821 - 389,840 of 539,563 Comments Last updated 16 min ago
Orville

Portland, OR

#404767 Nov 25, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>I heard a rumor, take note, it is only a rumor,
But I heard tha around teh 25 of December, that a star is going to appear over Washington,
and three "wise men" are going to appear there to help settle this mess in Congress.



If you say so Wiley-Preston. "Rumors" eh?

If we are real "lucky" perhaps the star will also beam you up permanently.

Imagine, the orbits big bands playing a tribute to Wiley-Preston. All extraterrestrials on their knees worshiping Wiley-Preston, the "Holy one" of the earth. Chanting, " all others were liars--all others were liars", oh great and holy one Wiley-Preston.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#404768 Nov 25, 2012
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
You asserted it with implications and again I asked you to post his exact words in context and the sources not an article.
Regardless there is nothing in this article that is remotely disturbing about what the Pope wrote is there? I dont recall any Christmas trees being in the Nativity scene.
The article says:
The assertion that the Christian calendar is based on a false premise is not new - many historians believe Christ was born sometime between 7 BC and 2 BC.
Yeah his exact birth date is almost as mysterious as where and when Obama was born. lol
The article then states:
But the fact that doubts over one of the keystones of Christian tradition have been raised by the leader of the world's one billion Roman Catholics is striking.
Striking to whom? The exact date of his birth and what has been discussed over the centuries is not a secret. You are just throwing out fodder. Heck I can all kinds of people who dont have birth certificates. I also know that dates of people being born vary in the church and state provided they have any documentation. The emphasis on knowing the precise date doesnt reflect the culture. Do you know where Moses and Marys bones are? Does it prove they never existed? NO
Dust Storm says.......Regardless there is nothing in this article that is remotely disturbing about what the Pope wrote is there? I dont recall any Christmas trees being in the Nativity scene.

Michael says.......I never said there was anything disturbing about what the pope wrote.

Christmas trees are a pagan tradition.

Pictures and statues of jesus have him with long hair and a beard. Did he have long hair and a beard?

Traditions, traditions, things are added along the way to add DRAMA to the story

1 BILLION roman catholics you say. Yes 1 Billion baptized catholics however according to countries in western europe and the bishops conference in america and what i know about canada, today far less than 30% of all baptized catholics attend MANDATORY sunday mass weekly.

Imagine a large corporation like General Motors and only 30% of the workers come to work when required? How long would they stay in business?(lol)

There are just as many or more former catholics on this forum than practicing catholics. "Im just sayn"
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#404769 Nov 25, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
History of catholic celebacy....and married catholic priests.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/07/us/married-...
http://www.futurechurch.org/fpm/history.htm
Dust Storm says that Jesus said his priests were not to be married.
If protestant ministers with a wife and family can quit their post and become a catholic priest they are allowed to have a wife and kids.
Also catholic clergy were allowed to marry up until the 12th century.
There were 39 popes who had been married.
Where is the consistency? Where is the beef?
No Dust Storm did not say Jesus said his priests were not to be married. You made that part up. Actually it is a discipline not a doctrine. It can be changed. It can be argued against. The problem comes when people defy the church and do what they want in defiance of the church.

There is biblical precedence for marriage as well as well as celebacy. No one forces anyone to become a priest. It is a choice they make. It is not for everyone. Many protestants even who marry agree it would be better if they were not.

The Cathars preached marriage in general was evil and forbade it. There are many good arguments both biblical and non-biblical for celibacy. There are both pluses and minuses to marriage. It is a whole topic which has been gone around before. No sense in repeating it to people who did not listen to anything said the first time.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#404770 Nov 25, 2012
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Robert
Or it could be that some Christians don't want to associate themselves with any kind of sin whether murder, child molestation, or a pastor stepping out on their wife, they would rather do church at home or with family and friends.
Do not even eat with them, etc.
And of course myself and others plainly believe most catholics have a different gospel, enough alone to not associate.
marge good friend

I clearly understand what you are saying here.

In recent, but memorable times, things were less complicated. Families and friends were in smaller groups, people knew each other, and a general fear of society, or contamination was not as prevalent as in today's world.

Today with mass communication(news, and amusements which are mostly bad), and transportation, things don't look so bright, and it may be that some are called to live away from the world.

This is more a sign of the times in which we live. In a similar way, some of the early Christians also tried to get away, living in isolated circumstances. Note also the Essenes in Jesus' time....

This existed in the even the early times of Christiantiy, and of the CC when religous persons became cloistered, and still goes on today. And Catholic education is still more preferable to the state education.

On the other hand Jesus sat, ate, and drank, and talked with, and was associated with sinners of his day. And in general, we must go amongst the unsaved to accomplish the Great Commission.

So there will be a conflict of getting one's hands dirty in order to live in the world, and not be of it....The recourse when one does get dirty is of course repentance and God's Mercy.
Loren Eberly

Mount Gilead, OH

#404771 Nov 25, 2012
Truck Drivers Cannot Live On Wages:

Trucking firms that use nonunion brokers and drivers willing to work for fewer wages and profit than they can afford life; Is defiant of USA Labor Law, The Constitution, and demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce and common sense demands.

Demanding every Trucking Firm, Stockholder, corporation, farmer, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; of every worker, consumer, and taxpayer's wages (union contract), healthcare, pension, investment and independent business profit.

This enables every worker, consumer, and taxpayer to pay healthcare insurance premium or pay healthcare provider. Pay ALL taxes and pay for every product and service they use for life. With money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.

And enables every parent to educate, love, nurse, nurture, discipline, protect, and provide; for every child (job) they conceive. And fund schools, infrastructure, local and national security, government services, and etc.; with money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.

President, the Justices they appoint, and Elected Officials hold Union workers and truck drivers, consumers, taxpayers, and America’s grandchildren’s children, Government employees, Parents, Teachers, Veterans, Police, Firemen, and Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Representatives deny Collective Bargaining Rights accountable.

To fund Illegal drug users and Illegal Immigrants, lottery, casino, and keno losers, unemployed Union workers and truck drivers replaced with nonunion workers, Human Traffickers, waitresses that pander for life for $2.00 per hour, slaves in enterprise zones, low-income child labor, consumers, and taxpayers, volunteers without wages, and nonunion workers and truck drivers willing to work for fewer wages than they can afford life. That pays with welfare checks, food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.

Pay for all stimulus packages, tax abatements, tax incentives, tax refunds, tax credit, and tax exemptions.

Pay sales tax on the more stock dividends (money) OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders (money marketers) market quarterly. In the wholesale and retail price of every product and service Human Beings use for life. That School Boards and Government needs to build, maintain and operate schools, infrastructure, and provide local and national security, and Government services. That gets only product or service.

Needed to measure and maintain the strength and growth of this UNAFFORDABLE economy and distribute money Human Beings cannot digest, burn in internal combustion engines, or burn to heat and cool their American Dream. Into OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders portfolios.

Defying USA Labor Law, the Constitution, and Realities demands is bankrupting USA. Makes free, fair, and affordable commerce IMPOSSIBLE; Makes funding schools IMPOSSIBLE; Makes balancing every budget IMPOSSIBLE; Makes Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and Americas grandchildren's children life UNAFFORDABLE; and created Ohio’s $1.35 trillion budget deficit, the $40 trillion social security and the $16 trillion national debt. America’s grandchildren’s children are responsible to pay Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders interest with this debt until they are 18 years old.

America’s grandchildren’s children cannot afford life and pay this debt with the $7.25 per hour Government mandated labor wage in a hundred million years.
ReginaM

Lakewood, NJ

#404772 Nov 25, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
As you know there is a large group of women (illigal) who have been ordained catholic priests and their numbers are growing.
http://romancatholicwomenpriests.org/
Below read about the thousands of catholic priests/bishops right around the world calling for optional celebacy.
http://www.futurechurch.org/fpm/optcel/callsf...
......Does this sound like a church with its xxxx together?
something is wrong!
Poor things! Christ came to serve, not be served. These misguided souls would do well to prayerfully reflect upon this simple, loving premise from which our redemption flowed.

Have no fear, the Church has her xxxx very much together! Everything is right!

SELFLESSNESS!

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#404773 Nov 25, 2012
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually having just seen it I would like clarification. I think the catechism and Catholic Apologists and theologians are quite clear on this subject. I think the subject was more than covered multiple times on this thread. If Fr Dye is advocating that baptism is not necessary until the age of reason then he would be contrary to the teachings of the church
We are bound by the sacraments but the Lord is not.
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/12/thief-...
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/baptism.html
The Church baptizes babies because baptism is the new circumcision of the New Covenant (Col. 2:11-12), just as the circumcision of eight-day old babies was the sign of the Old Covenant (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3). In Acts 2:39, Peter says baptism is for children as well as adults. The word used for children ("teknon") means infants, which is proved by Acts 21:21 in reference to eight-day old infants. We see in Acts 10:47-48; 16:15,33 and 1 Cor. 1:16 that entire households were baptized. Household ("oikos") included infants and children. There is nothing in the Bible about a "believer's baptism." It would have been unthinkable from a Jewish perspective to exclude children from God's covenant kingdom. See also in Matt. 9:2, Mark 2:3-5, Matt. 8:5-13, Luke 6:10, Mark 9:22-25 where people are healed based on another person's faith (just as babies are washed away of sin based on their parents' faith).
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/baptism_qa.h...
Dust Storm good friend

I believe,(and I am sure Father Rob), that infant baptism has infused virtues....

The question comes in as to a person's ability to reason at infancy, and therefore the effects of the infused cardinal virtues are difficult to realize see.

Infants display cardinal virtues of faith, hope, love, especially towards their parents, which is easily seen. But do not display for instance prudence, justice, temperance, fortitude until years later. And for all purposes the age of reason is a good place that they seem to begin in an affective way(IMHO).

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#404774 Nov 25, 2012
The first Nativity scene that was put up to tell the story MAY have been done by someone who knew things that we do not know. Some say that there were no animals in the stable...WHO TODAY was there to know? Stables ARE for animals...why else would there be a manger?

As for the angels singing...the Bible says 'saying'...I doubt that it was a football crowd, screaming riotously. Their voices (as good things do) were blended in a chorus of praise. It was 'musical' regardless.

The Wise Men are place in the scene because they are a part of the larger picture. Scripture says that they 'came into the HOUSE', not the stable. Then Herod had all the boy babies killed that were two years old or younger...counting from the time the wise men came to him. This means that Jesus might have been as much as two years old at the time the Wise Men came.

But it does not offend me to see the Wise Men in the manger scene. They are part of the story. There may not have been THREE wise men...and some discredit that story because the scripture does not SAY that there were THREE. However, people have said three, because there were THREE gifts.

We should not quibble over imagined 'errors' when we do not know all of the details. It ruins the larger picture. Currently there is a war on to remove all signs of Christianity in America. School children are being taught that this was never a Christian nation. If the leftists can remove our crosses, and ten commandments, and prevent the mention of Jesus and God from our speech, our freedom will disappear.

Display your Nativity scene...AND your crosses. Display the Ten Commandments openly, and say to the world that those things are important to us. Don't allow them to be removed.

KayMarie
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#404775 Nov 25, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
Dust Storm says.......Regardless there is nothing in this article that is remotely disturbing about what the Pope wrote is there? I dont recall any Christmas trees being in the Nativity scene.
Michael says.......I never said there was anything disturbing about what the pope wrote.
Christmas trees are a pagan tradition.
Pictures and statues of jesus have him with long hair and a beard. Did he have long hair and a beard?
Traditions, traditions, things are added along the way to add DRAMA to the story
1 BILLION roman catholics you say. Yes 1 Billion baptized catholics however according to countries in western europe and the bishops conference in america and what i know about canada, today far less than 30% of all baptized catholics attend MANDATORY sunday mass weekly.
Imagine a large corporation like General Motors and only 30% of the workers come to work when required? How long would they stay in business?(lol)
There are just as many or more former catholics on this forum than practicing catholics. "Im just sayn"
LOL...You act like what the Pope said is somehow going to crush the faith of Catholics and I pointed out the quote the article made as if it changed something. It doesnt and it didnt!

Circumcision was done by some Pagans before the Jews. Rings are a pagan tradition. Throwing rice is a pagan tradition. The days of the week are named after gods. So what? These are atheist canard cards. The creator can use anything he wants for proper use in a proper way. That someone may have done something or believed something similar is not a convincing argument.

Actually I would say closer to 18% attendance. The fact is all faiths are bleeding quite profusely. However throught the centuries numbers have risen and fallend. WHen I say 18% that is who attend weekly not just show up for Holidays. The church does not guarantee heaven just because you call yourself a Catholic. You can find that in some protestant churches.

8 were saved in the flood. Many people still identify with the faith of their youth and even claim so but practice it quite marginally. One can rejoice in the dwindling numbers of Christianity and the many empty churches in Europe and the rise of corruption and disrespectful youth, and secularlism, but it is no secret.

Jesus posed the question, "Will there be any faithful when I return? We all have choices in life. You have made yours.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#404776 Nov 25, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Dust Storm good friend
I believe,(and I am sure Father Rob), that infant baptism has infused virtues....
The question comes in as to a person's ability to reason at infancy, and therefore the effects of the infused cardinal virtues are difficult to realize see.
Infants display cardinal virtues of faith, hope, love, especially towards their parents, which is easily seen. But do not display for instance prudence, justice, temperance, fortitude until years later. And for all purposes the age of reason is a good place that they seem to begin in an affective way(IMHO).
Robert,

A baby/infant/small child is not yet able to believe/faith or to make a personal decision to follow Christ and take up his cross.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#404777 Nov 25, 2012
Michael said:

Christmas trees are a pagan tradition.

Pictures and statues of jesus have him with long hair and a beard. Did he have long hair and a beard?

Traditions, traditions, things are added along the way to add DRAMA to the story

**********

Human 'logic' often spoils a beautiful picture. The Christmas tree is an EVERGREEN. The Tree of Life in Revelations is along both sides of The River of Life proceeding from the throne. It is EVERGREEN bearing fruit EVERY MONTH. There is a DIFFERENT FRUIT every month.

Thus the EVERGREEN tree with its various colored ornaments is not 'pagan'.

We don't know how long Jesus' hair was. Why fuss about it?

KayMarie
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#404778 Nov 25, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Dust Storm good friend
I believe,(and I am sure Father Rob), that infant baptism has infused virtues....
The question comes in as to a person's ability to reason at infancy, and therefore the effects of the infused cardinal virtues are difficult to realize see.
Infants display cardinal virtues of faith, hope, love, especially towards their parents, which is easily seen. But do not display for instance prudence, justice, temperance, fortitude until years later. And for all purposes the age of reason is a good place that they seem to begin in an affective way(IMHO).
Robert,

We are not allowed to come to God on our own terms (God's will).....we must come to Him on His terms (not man's will.)
Patriot

Denver, CO

#404779 Nov 25, 2012
Remembering to give thanks:

I am thankful to GOD for the truths He has led me to, e.g., "...you will surely die." vs "You will not surely die ...." and more:

http://wake-up.org/daystar/Ds1996/DEC96B.html

http://www.prophetic.net/tithe.htm

http://www.sabbath-truth.org/

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#404780 Nov 25, 2012
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
The point is one that few Catholics get -- e.g. if the RCC were truly appointed and guided by God in matters of faith and morals -- then there would have been no immoral, faithless Inquisitions in the name of Jesus, period.
The Greatest Power in in Universe did not allow its appointee to carry out such crimes.
History and reality render the One-True claim 100% absurd.
Free Mind

I assume that you know the Inquisitions were inquiries into heresy.
Basically a group was sent to present beliefs, and the person was given an opportunity to agree or disagree. If they disagreed then their beliefs were heretical in nature. And the findings were made known.

Likewise today, if someone that would attend Church, and then teach something contrary to the Creed of the Church's teachings would be considered to some degree a heretic.

Therefore it is a matter of faith in God, which the Inquisitions were about, in order that heresy was not spread, and called part of the Church's teachings.

As to the immoral nature of the Inquisition. I believe you mean torture. And that was done by various countries, not the Inquisition.

Anyway, you have nothing to fear. You do not profess yourself being a Catholic.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#404781 Nov 25, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Dust Storm good friend
I believe,(and I am sure Father Rob), that infant baptism has infused virtues....
The question comes in as to a person's ability to reason at infancy, and therefore the effects of the infused cardinal virtues are difficult to realize see.
Infants display cardinal virtues of faith, hope, love, especially towards their parents, which is easily seen. But do not display for instance prudence, justice, temperance, fortitude until years later. And for all purposes the age of reason is a good place that they seem to begin in an affective way(IMHO).
Robert,

True disciples are called to lay something down....

How does this fit into being baptized as an infant/small child???

"Let him deny himself"

Galatians 2:20

20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

How could anyone apply this verse to an infant being baptized???
Fr Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#404782 Nov 25, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Golly Gee, Clay. YOu forgot to answer the question. Try again. DO YOU AGREE WITH ROB'S POST? YES or NO? Can you answer this simple question.
And what is a 'rite of Christian initation'? In your own words, if you can. That was a joke. Of course you can't.
.
Boy, pretty snide, don't you think.
.
A "Rite of Christian Initiation" is what is done to prepare someone for becoming Christian.
.
In the primitive Church, the was on occasion concern about baptizing those not truly readyto live the faith, as they would often backslide, especially in the conversion of idolators.
.
A long period of instruction was the early Church solution ... a 40 day retreat, with prayer, fasting, and instruction, culminating in baptism, confirmation (an anointing with oil as a "sealing of baptism") and Holy Communion, all on the vigil of the "anniversary" of the Lord's Resurrection).

The season of Lent is the legacy of this practice. We still baptize, confirm, and admit to Holy Communion converts on this night (ideally, concluding just as the sun is rising, so the converts come from darkness of sin "into the Light" of Christ.
.
Before someone gets their nose outta joint, people who "convert" from another Christian faith are NOT, strictly speaking, "converts," although it is common (through laziness) to call them by that name.
.
The "Rites of Christian Initiation" are thus baptism, confirmation, and Eucharist.
.
For other Christiam gropus, they would probably be called (water) baptism, baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the Lord's Supper.
.
And answering your other post, I'm gonna have to go find it. I want to be especially careful how I answer.
.
Rob

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#404783 Nov 25, 2012
who="Michael"
More conflicting bible stories.......
.......... The hometown of Jesus' parents, neither gospel can agree where it was. Matthew says they live in Bethlehem in Judea, while Luke says they lived in Nazareth in Galilee.
I thought these gospels were the inspired "accurate" words of God?
.....something is wrong!

**********

Read the whole thing more carefully. Jesus was born in Bethlehem. He was taken to Egypt until Herod died. Then the family moved to Nazareth.

KayMarie
marge

Ames, IA

#404784 Nov 25, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
marge good friend
I clearly understand what you are saying here.
In recent, but memorable times, things were less complicated. Families and friends were in smaller groups, people knew each other, and a general fear of society, or contamination was not as prevalent as in today's world.
Today with mass communication(news, and amusements which are mostly bad), and transportation, things don't look so bright, and it may be that some are called to live away from the world.
This is more a sign of the times in which we live. In a similar way, some of the early Christians also tried to get away, living in isolated circumstances. Note also the Essenes in Jesus' time....
This existed in the even the early times of Christiantiy, and of the CC when religous persons became cloistered, and still goes on today. And Catholic education is still more preferable to the state education.
On the other hand Jesus sat, ate, and drank, and talked with, and was associated with sinners of his day. And in general, we must go amongst the unsaved to accomplish the Great Commission.
So there will be a conflict of getting one's hands dirty in order to live in the world, and not be of it....The recourse when one does get dirty is of course repentance and God's Mercy.
Hey Robert I agree with your post and yes we must associate with sinners and try to save them God-willing.

But i was talking about those who claim to be of the true church when their works show they are evil.

Thanks again for the post and blessings to you.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#404785 Nov 25, 2012
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
No Dust Storm did not say Jesus said his priests were not to be married. You made that part up. Actually it is a discipline not a doctrine. It can be changed. It can be argued against. The problem comes when people defy the church and do what they want in defiance of the church.
There is biblical precedence for marriage as well as well as celebacy. No one forces anyone to become a priest. It is a choice they make. It is not for everyone. Many protestants even who marry agree it would be better if they were not.
The Cathars preached marriage in general was evil and forbade it. There are many good arguments both biblical and non-biblical for celibacy. There are both pluses and minuses to marriage. It is a whole topic which has been gone around before. No sense in repeating it to people who did not listen to anything said the first time.
DustStorm says......The problem comes when people defy the church and do what they want in defiance of the church.

Michael says.....the church does not control peoples lives (maybe yours)

You see Duststorm you practice faith instead of conscious living, you live under a cloak of fear. It teaches you to fear being different, fear standing up for yourself, and fear of being an independant thinker like myself.

You practice that you are unworthy, a sinner, and unclean. I don't practice that.

Your reasoning is always the same. You submit to the will of an external authority. You believe you are inadequate if you don't submit to this authority.

YOu give away your personal power, you follow their rules and procedures, and live in fear the rest of your life hoping what you are doing is pleasing God, and just maybe it will turn out OK at the end..

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#404786 Nov 25, 2012
who="Michael"
.......There are differences in the nativity story which serve to lessen its credibility. As an example, in an attempt to parallel the importance of Jesus' birth with that of Moses, Matthew describes the massacre of the children of Bethlehem by king Herod as he attempts to kill the infant messiah.
This extraordinary event is not attested to by any SECULAR SOURCE from that period, nor even referred to by Luke. Indeed, Luke has the family return peacefully, to Nazareth after Jesus' birth in Bethlehem (Luke 2:22,39).
If the massacre did take place, it does not make sense that Herod's son later on does not recall the event by his father about Jesus nor his importance (Matt. 14:1-2). Moreover, if Herod and all the people of Jerusalem knew of the messiah's birth (Matt. 2:3), why is it that later in Jesus' life, the "same" author claims that people had not heard of his miraculous origin and still questioned his miracles and his teachings (Matt. 13:54-56)?
.....conflicting information or what!
....something is wrong DustStorm...

**********

Secular sources, then as now, doggedly attempt to discredit the story...NOT proclaim it.

KayMarie

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