Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 542,344
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

Since: Nov 12

Hamilton, Canada

#404178 Nov 22, 2012
@Dust Storm

...When Paul writes let no man judge you... etc in the KJV you'll notice italics (which are inserted words to help the meaning along; only this time they were inserted to mislead).

Paul is telling the new Hebrews not to let their pagan associates judge or condemn them but to rely on the Body of Mashiach who could guide them appropriately in keeping the set apart times of YHUH (Lev 23).

The Catholics tried to keep people in the dark with their superstitions. Some in my family were well within the hierarchy and know what was done to keep the people ignorant. Including putting people to death for reading the KJV without Catholic authority say-so.

Plucking grain to satisfy hunger on Shabbat or saving an animal is not breaking it; since Shabbat is all about mercy; bringing rest to a hungry person or distressed animal is a righteous thing to do; the Pharisees (precursors of the Talmud) were the ones who were bent out of shape. The lack of compassion is what Yahusha was addressing; not breaking the Shabbat. They didn't gather grain for later or for gain which would have been a transgression; just to satisfy their immediate hunger.

Look for excuses or nitpick all you want; Yahusha never kept Sun Day nor sanctified it for regular rest. When He arose Saturday evening He was fulfilling his role as part of the best of the first fruits of believers (the wave sheaf offering) since he is the Rosh/head of the body of believers who must be changed to be like him on the last great day.

Nothing will change from the YH's word until every last thing is fulfilled including Shatan being destroyed and earth being renewed. That has not happened yet.
Fr Robert Dye

Muskogee, OK

#404179 Nov 22, 2012
passinby wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell me, was Messiah lying when he said he would be in the earth 3 days? By your reckoning of him dying on Good Friday he was only 1 1/2 days in the tomb. That's not a miracle, that's being unconscious. 3 days is the miracle since in that warm climate by that time his body would have begun to decay.
Unfortunately, the two of you come across as closet Catholics; since the Catholic church is the only religious authority who can claim to have changed the day of rest from the 7th/Saturday to the 1st/Sun Day. You both realize that the 1st Day/Sun Day is dedicated to Mithra right? And Easter/Ishtar is based on Semiramis, Nimrod, and Tammuz worship. My family are former Catholics.
And Yahusha died in the middle of the week (there were two Shabbats, Passover beginning Wednesday evening--nightfall--Roman time and the weekly 7th Day); and Yahusha rose on what the Roman time system calls Saturday evening. Yahusha was fulfilling the requirement of YHUH's Set Apart Times (Lev 23) as the Wave Sheaf Offering.
.
Why do you think the Catholics call it H-ly Thursday, Good Friday and leave out the Sabbath (that's their competition)?
.
Wait, wat?
.
Did they take Holy Saturday of the calendar when I wasn't looking?
.
As for "3 days," by Jewish counting, Jesus WAS in the tomb 3 days. 1. Friday. 2. Saturday. 3. Sunday.
.
That's it. Count 'em. THREE.
.
One cold say this is not the way we (Americans, or perhaps English speakers) count.
.
That's true. But it's NOT the only way to count.
.
Mexicans say "today and 8" when the mean "a week from today." The count "1" on "today," when Americans would count "1" on " tomorrow," and say "a week from today," or "in 7 days."
.
What is perhaps more interesting is that Jesus dies about 3:00 PM.

3:00 PM on Saturday would be 24 hours. 3:00 AM Sunday would be 36 hours. 4 MORE hours would be 7:00 AM, 40 hours after Jesus died.
.
Now, if you want to take the 40 as literal you can, but it is also useful toknow that 40 can be (scripturally) a symbolic number meaning "enough," or "a sufficient time."
.
40 years in the desert. Enough time.
.
40 days and nights of rain. Sufficient.
.
Let the raspberries begin!
.
Rob
guest

United States

#404180 Nov 22, 2012
jethro8 wrote:
ok so you admit the 25th is not jesus' true birth date,(historians put it around sept.) and they changed the sabbath without true devine authority,so the c.c. could not be the church of which crists speaks of or rather does not speak of,"MY CHURCH"does not translate into catholic church,or any other church.and as stated in my other post,if god is the creator of the universe his church would not be confined to one planet,it would not be a building but a universal spiritual church.it's the only thing that makes sense.gods/jesus' church would be perfect an we know for a fact there is no such thing of a perfect church on earth.
-
-
Clay wrote:
I don't think anyone ever believed Dec 25th was Jesus actual Birthday.
As for your other claims...
The Church had the authority to change the Sabbath, because Jesus gave them the Authority.
Sunday was set aside from the earliest possible beginnings of the Church. So people in various cults like SDAs, are in effect, changing what the Apostles clearly taught.
-
-
Hey jethro8,

According to followers of the Catholic Church, Jesus gave them every authority to do whatever they wanted to do and whatever happens to strike their fancy at the time -- and no-one is allowed to question this. They can even torture and murder heretics in Jesus' name if they so desire, because Jesus himself gave the Pope the authority!
-
Imagine that! The Pope AND his ardent followers - can do acts of horror that would most certainly make the Devil proud and claim that Jesus authorized them to! Then they can turn around (sometimes immediately and sometimes years later) and say "OOPS! we made a mistake and the individuals who did *those things* were evil and most certainly non-Catholic."
-
Yet they claim an UNBROKEN chain of popes going back to the time of Peter himself.(And everybody knows that some popes were so evil they would make even the devil blush.)
-
So. In an unbroken chain of popes - how can some be deemed as non-Catholic AFTER they are dead and buried, and yet at the same time, claim that there is an unbroken chain of popes?
-
Catholicism is nothing but double-think. It has to be. And because the truth is not in them. They can't handle the truth.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#404181 Nov 22, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>your presence is wanted on the gay/lesbian forum.
dont keep your friend waiting.
~~~
How would you know what your gay/lesbian friends want...except you are

one of them...Did they send you to solicit members for their forum?
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#404182 Nov 22, 2012
preston wrote:
with this post, you can se why the sda cultist doesnt like me.lol
Seventh-day Adventists Falsely Claim They are the Only True Church
The key to the preceding quote I gave you is question #13, which mandates that a person joining the SDA Church MUST (without exception) believe that “the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy.” This means that all other religions, including Baptist and Presbyterian, are viewed as being of the Devil by SDAs. SDAs arrogantly, and sinfully, teach that their organization is the only True Church, and that everyone else is following the Devil.
I can proudly say that I am a Baptist; but there’s no such thing as “The Baptist Church.” Jesus never founded a “Baptist Church.” Jesus is the foundation of the Church, period (1st Corinthians 3:11). Thus, there are numerous denominations which teach the Word of God faithfully concerning the plan of salvation. The mighty evangelist, Billy Sunday, was a Presbyterian minister. The mighty pastor, Dwight Moody, was a Baptist. Many godly pastors are non-denominational. They are all a part of the Body of Christ. For any religious group, such as the SDAs or Jehovah’s Witnesses to claim that they are the only True Church is unbiblical and a false teaching.
Interesting, from looking at the “Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists”(outlined on pages 7-17 in the SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH MANUAL), Baptists and SDAs align almost identically doctrinally concerning the Godhead, the Deity of Jesus Christ, Jesus’ Shed Blood, the Virgin Birth, et cetera. In fact, some writers such as Walter Martin have made the fatal mistake of identifying the SDAs as a Christian cult. My friend, there is NO such thing as a “Christian cult.” SDA is a demonic cult, as you will learn in the next section.
Then how would you explain why nobody else likes you?
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#404183 Nov 22, 2012
passinby wrote:
@Dust Storm
...When Paul writes let no man judge you... etc in the KJV you'll notice italics (which are inserted words to help the meaning along; only this time they were inserted to mislead).
Paul is telling the new Hebrews not to let their pagan associates judge or condemn them but to rely on the Body of Mashiach who could guide them appropriately in keeping the set apart times of YHUH (Lev 23).
The Catholics tried to keep people in the dark with their superstitions. Some in my family were well within the hierarchy and know what was done to keep the people ignorant. Including putting people to death for reading the KJV without Catholic authority say-so.
Plucking grain to satisfy hunger on Shabbat or saving an animal is not breaking it; since Shabbat is all about mercy; bringing rest to a hungry person or distressed animal is a righteous thing to do; the Pharisees (precursors of the Talmud) were the ones who were bent out of shape. The lack of compassion is what Yahusha was addressing; not breaking the Shabbat. They didn't gather grain for later or for gain which would have been a transgression; just to satisfy their immediate hunger.
Look for excuses or nitpick all you want; Yahusha never kept Sun Day nor sanctified it for regular rest. When He arose Saturday evening He was fulfilling his role as part of the best of the first fruits of believers (the wave sheaf offering) since he is the Rosh/head of the body of believers who must be changed to be like him on the last great day.
Nothing will change from the YH's word until every last thing is fulfilled including Shatan being destroyed and earth being renewed. That has not happened yet.
Good Grief! I will dismiss your ignorant hate rhetoric on putting people to death for bible reading kjv. The one misleading is you.

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment.

Now the subject is the Sabbath, but the point is the same. You are a Judaizer. Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles and he isnt putting more rules on their head.

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. He said come to me those who are weary and I will give you rest. You laden them up with burdens which Peter argued at the council of Jerusalem that were unable to be met.

If you had bothered to read the article rather than respond with this rubbish which was not directed to you then perhaps you may have said something that pertained to it.

I would suggest you look to the Hebrew Catholic Association. For the first time since James their is now a Bishop in Jerusalem who is of Jewish Ancestry. You will not find a single writing of any early father including Ignatious appointed by St John who agree with what you have said here.

Facts however are irrelevant to most protestants and I venture to say you may be a Messianic Jew. The prophet Osee wrote about the Sabbath. I have to wonder when you are going to sacrifice on the alter and why arent you stoning people?

Ah never mind I dont have the time nor desire. You have already shown your true nature with your hate filled rhetoric and you criticize Preston? LOL Good one!
Dom

Rochester, NY

#404184 Nov 22, 2012
About time I see some good comments on the Church. I love our Savior and He is the Eucharist of God that keeps us together.
marge

Ames, IA

#404185 Nov 22, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
How would you know what your gay/lesbian friends want...except you are
one of them...Did they send you to solicit members for their forum?
I told you he went off the deep end, that's what it says happens when one is expelled from the brotherhood, Preston is not in our hands...
marge

Ames, IA

#404186 Nov 22, 2012
passinby wrote:
<quoted text>
So this is your Christian way of attempting to save souls?
wow. just wow.
When i talk to gays and lesbians they know where i stand but it's not offensive.
Romans One is the straight-forward Truth to share;

either one worships the creation or the Creator;

A clear choice, the Truth in Love.
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#404187 Nov 22, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Wait, wat?
.
Did they take Holy Saturday of the calendar when I wasn't looking?
.
As for "3 days," by Jewish counting, Jesus WAS in the tomb 3 days. 1. Friday. 2. Saturday. 3. Sunday.
.
That's it. Count 'em. THREE.
.
One cold say this is not the way we (Americans, or perhaps English speakers) count.
.
That's true. But it's NOT the only way to count.
.
Mexicans say "today and 8" when the mean "a week from today." The count "1" on "today," when Americans would count "1" on " tomorrow," and say "a week from today," or "in 7 days."
.
What is perhaps more interesting is that Jesus dies about 3:00 PM.
3:00 PM on Saturday would be 24 hours. 3:00 AM Sunday would be 36 hours. 4 MORE hours would be 7:00 AM, 40 hours after Jesus died.
.
Now, if you want to take the 40 as literal you can, but it is also useful toknow that 40 can be (scripturally) a symbolic number meaning "enough," or "a sufficient time."
.
40 years in the desert. Enough time.
.
40 days and nights of rain. Sufficient.
.
Let the raspberries begin!
.
Rob
1 2 3

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/num56.htm
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#404188 Nov 22, 2012
Dom wrote:
About time I see some good comments on the Church. I love our Savior and He is the Eucharist of God that keeps us together.
You won't see (any) from bible only Protestants on this forum,(however) you can be assured that (we) as Catholics will not disappoint you from speaking and revealing the TRUTH of Jesus Christ--in the Eucharist--in the Mass--in the Gospel and in all the other Sacraments.
orville

Vancouver, WA

#404189 Nov 22, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
How would you know what your gay/lesbian friends want...except you are
one of them...Did they send you to solicit members for their forum?


People are certainly more observant than I realized. I thought few if any were really "looking" at what Preston has been revealing in his post.
orville

Vancouver, WA

#404190 Nov 22, 2012
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
You won't see (any) from bible only Protestants on this forum,(however) you can be assured that (we) as Catholics will not disappoint you from speaking and revealing the TRUTH of Jesus Christ--in the Eucharist--in the Mass--in the Gospel and in all the other Sacraments.


Come on Hojo. Jesus is not restricted to a wafer. The entire Bible confirms the opposite.
orville

Vancouver, WA

#404191 Nov 22, 2012
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
I told you he went off the deep end, that's what it says happens when one is expelled from the brotherhood, Preston is not in our hands...

Preston is not in his own hands nor mind either. I have been looking at post by "Preston". he has used many names here. I will post these within a few days. But there exist a some strong links to someone who post from Michigan. And historically in this thread, that has been restricted to HOJO. I went back about 3.5 years.

Are you still mad at me because I do not vote?
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#404192 Nov 22, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Wait, wat?
.
Did they take Holy Saturday of the calendar when I wasn't looking?
.
As for "3 days," by Jewish counting, Jesus WAS in the tomb 3 days. 1. Friday. 2. Saturday. 3. Sunday.
.
That's it. Count 'em. THREE.
.
One cold say this is not the way we (Americans, or perhaps English speakers) count.
.
That's true. But it's NOT the only way to count.
.
Mexicans say "today and 8" when the mean "a week from today." The count "1" on "today," when Americans would count "1" on " tomorrow," and say "a week from today," or "in 7 days."
.
What is perhaps more interesting is that Jesus dies about 3:00 PM.
3:00 PM on Saturday would be 24 hours. 3:00 AM Sunday would be 36 hours. 4 MORE hours would be 7:00 AM, 40 hours after Jesus died.
.
Now, if you want to take the 40 as literal you can, but it is also useful toknow that 40 can be (scripturally) a symbolic number meaning "enough," or "a sufficient time."
.
40 years in the desert. Enough time.
.
40 days and nights of rain. Sufficient.
.
Let the raspberries begin!
.
Rob
Rob, why was Jesus so specific about being in the grave the same amount of time that Jonah was in the belly of the fish? Why did He specify 3 days and 3 nights? And then of course, was He correct?
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#404193 Nov 22, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Rob, why was Jesus so specific about being in the grave the same amount of time that Jonah was in the belly of the fish? Why did He specify 3 days and 3 nights? And then of course, was He correct?
Ouch! The unlearned and unstable is showing in you over and over. You would make a good atheist taking things you dont understand and saying they contradict.

"Jesus stayed in the realm of the dead PARTS of three twenty-four-hour periods, not three whole days and nights. But the reference to three days and three nights comes out of Jonah 2:1 [1:17] rather than from the story of Jesus and causes no problem in view of the Jewish method of reckoning PART of a twenty-four-hour day for the WHOLE (see Gen 42:17-18; 1 Sam 30:1,12-13; 2 Chron 10:5,12; Esth 4:16-5:1; and rabbinic references in TDNT 2:949-950). Here is the only reference to his death and resurrection that Jesus made in the hearing of Jewish leaders. The chief priests and Pharisees will allude to it in recalling that he said he would rise 'AFTER three days'(27:63)....The reason is that Matthew's Jesus spoke to the Jewish leaders about staying in the realm of the dead three days and three nights. But Jesus rose ON the third day. Though the peculiarity of the Jews' method of reckoning time eliminates a necessary contradiction, Matthew suits the two different ways of phrasing the matter to the audience of Pharisees on the one hand (27:63 with 12:40) and to the historical event on the other hand (16:21; 17:23; 20:19)[which read 'ON the third day']." (Robert H. Gundry, MATTHEW: A Commentary on His Handbook for a Mixed Church under Persecution [Eerdmans, 1994], p 244-245)

Now for the scholarly Theological Dictionary of the New Testament referred to above as TDNT, edited by Gerhard Kittel, under "DAY" :

"The difficulty has often been advanced that there is a discrepancy between the ['on the third day'] of Matthew, Luke, and Paul and the usual ['after three days'] of Mark. But in this connection it has to be remembered that difficulties always arise in the reckoning of days according to Jewish usage. Thus

'in Halachic statements PART of a day is reckoned as a WHOLE day'

[Footnote has rabbinic source Str-B I,649 and the original Hebrew 'part of a day counts as a whole day' e.g. bNazir 5b; Pes 4,2]

"and already in the first century A.D. we read:'A day and a night constitute a -onah-([Hebrew for] a full day), and part of a -onah- counts as a whole -onah-'(jShab 12a,15,17)

"IT IS IN THIS LIGHT THAT WE ARE TO UNDERSTAND MATTHEW 12:40...Thus the Marcan narrative ['after three days'] means that Friday and the night up to the resurrection are each counted as a day, while Matthew, Luke and Paul...use a mode of expression ['on the third day'] which would be regarded as more correct by Greeks. Both forms are found in close proximity in Matthew 27:63f..." (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament [TDNT], vol 2, p 949f)

[Footnote 30 also refers to Josephus "inclusive" reckoning of days and references are given: Antiquities 7:280f; 8:214/218; 5:17]

The exact same point is made by Evangelical Protestants Kenneth Barker (Hebrew scholar and general editor of the NIV), and John Kohlenberger in the NIV Bible Commentary (Volume II: NT, Zondervan, 1994) that Jewish tradition says that an -onah- is a day and a night and that PART of an -onah- is considered as the WHOLE. They also state the "Wednesday crucifixion" idea is incompatible with "ON the third day" as I pointed out above (see Barker commentary on Mt 12:40, page 63).

This pretty well seals the case that "three days and three nights" (Matthew 12:40) should be understood "inclusively" as PARTS of three days as the Jews reckoned time, and we should not force the text into meaning "exactly 72 hours" or anything else that is unsupportable by any evidence. For more OT examples of "inclusive reckoning" :

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/num56.htm much more here! The truth shall set you free!

Since: Nov 12

Hamilton, Canada

#404194 Nov 23, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Wait, wat?
.
Did they take Holy Saturday of the calendar when I wasn't looking?
.
As for "3 days," by Jewish counting, Jesus WAS in the tomb 3 days. 1. Friday. 2. Saturday. 3. Sunday.
.
One cold say this is not the way we (Americans, or perhaps English speakers) count.
.
.
What is perhaps more interesting is that Jesus dies about 3:00 PM.
3:00 PM on Saturday would be 24 hours. 3:00 AM Sunday would be 36 hours. 4 MORE hours would be 7:00 AM, 40 hours after Jesus died.
.
Now, if you want to take the 40 as literal you can, but it is also useful toknow that 40 can be (scripturally) a symbolic number meaning "enough," or "a sufficient time."
.
Rob
There were two Shabbats that week; Pesach/Passover and the 7th. He died before Pesach/Passover Wednesday afternoon before sunset.

Now as for counting, evening and morning are considered a day from the very beginning. Unless you're claiming he raised Sunday night you can't get 3 days from Friday evening to Sunday morning Roman time. How about you respect the Hebrew scriptures, understanding, and Yahusha's own words and historical information about when Pesach/Passover happened at that time?

i think you destroyed your own argument with the 3PM Friday to 3PM Saturday; that's only 1 day. And then you devolve into mystical strangeness by talking about the number 40 being about completion? i think i'll rely on the actual word of YHUH and what Yahusha said would happen. That will keep me in good standing with YHUH. Because by your logic YHUH/YHUShA isn't capable of fulfilling his word of being 3 literal days in the tomb like Yonah not seeing corruption (which would happen by 3 days) and then resurrecting.

As for understanding the Hebrew way; i am a Hebrew (not a Jew) an actual descendant of Yshral/Yaaqob; speaking English or being born somewhere has nothing to do with it. Understanding Hebrew and Aramaic and accepting YHUH/YHUShA's testimony does.

Since: Nov 12

Hamilton, Canada

#404195 Nov 23, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
-
-
<quoted text>
-
-
Hey jethro8,
According to followers of the Catholic Church, Jesus gave them every authority to do whatever they wanted to do and whatever happens to strike their fancy at the time -- and no-one is allowed to question this. They can even torture and murder heretics in Jesus' name if they so desire, because Jesus himself gave the Pope the authority!
-
Imagine that! The Pope AND his ardent followers - can do acts of horror that would most certainly make the Devil proud and claim that Jesus authorized them to! Then they can turn around (sometimes immediately and sometimes years later) and say "OOPS! we made a mistake and the individuals who did *those things* were evil and most certainly non-Catholic."
-
Yet they claim an UNBROKEN chain of popes going back to the time of Peter himself.(And everybody knows that some popes were so evil they would make even the devil blush.)
-
So. In an unbroken chain of popes - how can some be deemed as non-Catholic AFTER they are dead and buried, and yet at the same time, claim that there is an unbroken chain of popes?
-
Catholicism is nothing but double-think. It has to be. And because the truth is not in them. They can't handle the truth.
Aman/Amen. Barukh/Blessings in Yahusha.

Since: Nov 12

Hamilton, Canada

#404196 Nov 23, 2012
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Good Grief! I will dismiss your ignorant hate rhetoric on putting people to death for bible reading kjv. The one misleading is you.
Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment.
Now the subject is the Sabbath,...You are a Judaizer. Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles and he isnt putting more rules on their head.
Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. He said come to me those who are weary and I will give you rest. You laden them up with burdens which Peter argued at the council of Jerusalem that were unable to be met.
If you had bothered to read the article rather than respond with this rubbish which was not directed to you then perhaps you may have said something that pertained to it.
I would suggest you look to the Hebrew Catholic Association. For the first time since James their is now a Bishop in Jerusalem who is of Jewish Ancestry. You will not find a single writing of any early father including Ignatious appointed by St John who agree with what you have said here.
Facts however are irrelevant to most protestants and I venture to say you may be a Messianic Jew. The prophet Osee wrote about the Sabbath. I have to wonder when you are going to sacrifice on the alter and why arent you stoning people?
Ah never mind I dont have the time nor desire. You have already shown your true nature with your hate filled rhetoric and you criticize Preston? LOL Good one!
Wow. Ad hominem all you want. It's only hate to itching ears. Nice display of Christianity though.

Acts 15 is talking about Ebionites who insisted that people be first circumcised and go through all the other rituals to become part of Yshral; instead of by Faith in Yahusha and then learning how to be Hebrew; or they would not comment further that people will learn because Mosha (Torah) is preached every Shabbat; read the whole thing; you can't pick and choose what the apostles set down.

Calling me a Judaizer. Was that supposed to hurt? Chizun/Revelation refers to they (the chasidim/saints) that keep the "commandments" of YHUH/G-d (truth/word/Torah) and have the testimony of Yahusha (faith and ruach/spirit). Thanks to your reviling and slander i have been barukhed by YHUH. You do realize that from Constantine until not too long ago people were put to death by the church for being "Judaizers" right? Where do you think the word comes from?

Paul declared he was a Hebrew of the tribe of Banyamin. He wrote we are to follow Yahusha not him or others; he could not save anyone; nor can you or i. He also wrote "Aluhaym forbid" that we should break the Torah to establish it.

It matters little what the church Fathers have to say if their words go against Shaddai YHUH Aluhaym. Nor does the bribery of having a Jew hanging out with Catholics matter since this was set up long ago by Rothschild and others.

Read the suppressed scriptures including 1Enoch (quoted in Jude), Jasher (refered to in Yahusha/Joshua) and Apocrypha (numerous references to both Testaments) which the church claims are spurious. Read Josephus. i guess the Maccabees are fictional then? Except that without them no one would have freedom of conscience from the oppressive Greeks or Romans. i am not a Protestant or a Jew. i am a Hebrew; of the family of Yshral. The Real Mashiach (our ultimate sacrifice) is coming to straighten out this mess; so your PETA rant about the need for further sacrifice is invalid; i'm guessing you have not read in the scripture the part about no further need for the slaughter of innocent animals to remit our sins?

Break the Torah to establish the Torah? i think not. You expect fellow citizens to be lawful by man-made standards but you Christians don't have to obey the higher Torah (instructions/commands) of YHUH right?

Since: Nov 12

Hamilton, Canada

#404197 Nov 23, 2012
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Good Grief! I will dismiss your ignorant hate rhetoric on putting people to death for bible reading kjv. The one misleading is you.
Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment.
Now the subject is the Sabbath,...You are a Judaizer. Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles and he isnt putting more rules on their head.
Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. He said come to me those who are weary and I will give you rest. You laden them up with burdens which Peter argued at the council of Jerusalem that were unable to be met.
If you had bothered to read the article rather than respond with this rubbish which was not directed to you then perhaps you may have said something that pertained to it.
I would suggest you look to the Hebrew Catholic Association. For the first time since James their is now a Bishop in Jerusalem who is of Jewish Ancestry. You will not find a single writing of any early father including Ignatious appointed by St John who agree with what you have said here.
Facts however are irrelevant to most protestants and I venture to say you may be a Messianic Jew. The prophet Osee wrote about the Sabbath. I have to wonder when you are going to sacrifice on the alter and why arent you stoning people?
Ah never mind I dont have the time nor desire. You have already shown your true nature with your hate filled rhetoric and you criticize Preston? LOL Good one!
Wow. Ad hominem all you want. It's only hate to itching ears. Nice display of Christianity though.

Acts 15 is talking about Ebionites who insisted that people be first circumcised and go through all the other rituals to become part of Yshral; instead of by Faith in Yahusha and then learning how to be Hebrew; or they would not comment further that people will learn because Mosha (Torah) is preached every Shabbat; read the whole thing; you can't pick and choose what the apostles set down.

Calling me a Judaizer. Was that supposed to hurt? Chizun/Revelation refers to they (the chasidim/saints) that keep the "commandments" of YHUH/G-d (truth/word/Torah) and have the testimony of Yahusha (faith and ruach/spirit). Thanks to your reviling and slander i have been barukhed by YHUH. You do realize that from Constantine until not too long ago people were put to death by the church for being "Judaizers" right? Where do you think the word comes from?

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