Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

[Clay]

jethro8 wrote:

<quoted text>the history i post does not come from protestant web sites,as i said many times,i use history of the world.com ,encyclopedia britanica,religions of the world (this book covers all religions) mysteries of the bible,documentories made for T.V. on the books of the bible,and the books that were left out,which i heavily disagree with,all should be included,but men decided what was considered truly a holy book or not,how does one know which is which if you were not present at the time events took place,the new testament is all hearsay books. and again NO ONE can claim with absolute validity of being the true church unless you have a passage where jesus states a name of his church and it does not exist,he simply states "MY CHURCH" that is true historical fact. all churches are creations of ordinary men,who use gods word for profit and political power only.

Only one Church can trace themselves to the upper room at Pentecost.
Its very clear the hierarchy never dissolved since then.
Bishops, Priests and Deacons were organized and ordained by the Apostles. This is the Church that Jesus Christ Himself started.

You said "all churches were started by ordinary men"

Not the Catholic Church. If so, who was the guy who started it?
Every single Protestant sect can be traced to some guy or girl.(thousands in the last century alone).
The Catholic Church has one founder. Jesus.

Interesting stat: do you know the Church existed for 70 yrs before the books of the New Testament were entirely written? The Church was functioning before the Apostle Paul wrote a single letter.
And..
The Church functioned for the next 300 yrs before the letters of Paul would be considered inspired by the Holy Spirit!
You can't deny this history.

[Free Mind]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
Only one Church can trace themselves to the upper room at Pentecost.
Its very clear the hierarchy never dissolved since then.
Bishops, Priests and Deacons were organized and ordained by the Apostles. This is the Church that Jesus Christ Himself started.
You said "all churches were started by ordinary men"
Not the Catholic Church. If so, who was the guy who started it?
Every single Protestant sect can be traced to some guy or girl.(thousands in the last century alone).
The Catholic Church has one founder. Jesus.
Interesting stat: do you know the Church existed for 70 yrs before the books of the New Testament were entirely written? The Church was functioning before the Apostle Paul wrote a single letter.
And..
The Church functioned for the next 300 yrs before the letters of Paul would be considered inspired by the Holy Spirit!
You can't deny this history.

Wrong again Clay.

The "Church" you speak of was a Jewish sect for about the first 70 years. They worshiped in temples and prayed as Jews. No one thought Jesus was God. That would have been a BIG no-no for the Jews.

(We know this from Jewish writings of the day.)

After the fall off the Temple (when Christian Jews waited for Jesus to return as he promised), it wasn't so cool to be Jewish in the Roman world. The first Gospel was written and the Jewish term "son of God" took on a completely new meaning.

Sorry your faith requires so many easily verifiable lies.

[Free Mind]

Reality 101 for the deniers....

"As shown by the numerous quotations in the New Testament books and other Christian writings of the 1st centuries, early Christians generally used and revered the Jewish Bible as Scripture... "

"Early Christians demonstrated a wide range of beliefs and practices, many of which were later rejected as heretical."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Christiani...

[Free Mind]

"There was great diversity within the Christian movement during the first few decades after Jesus' execution. Some of Jesus' followers (and those who never met Jesus but who were inspired by his teachings) settled in Jerusalem. But others spread across the known world, teaching very different messages. "Even in the same geographical area and sometimes in the same cities, different Christian teachers taught quite different gospels and had quite different views of who Jesus was and what he did."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_chov.ht...

[Free Mind]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_chov.ht...

The first Apostles didn't claim Jesus was a god.

"Jewish Christian movement: Jesus disciples and other followers who fled to the Galilee after Jesus' execution appear to have regrouped in Jerusalem under the leadership of James, one of Jesus' brothers. The group viewed themselves as a reform movement within Judaism. They organized a synagogue, worshiped and brought animals for ritual sacrifice at the Jerusalem Temple. They observed the Jewish holy days, practiced circumcision of their male children, strictly followed Kosher dietary laws, and practiced the teachings of Jesus as they interpreted them to be. They are frequently referred to today as the Jewish Christians.(These should not be confused with followers of modern-day Messianic Judaism who follow an evangelical Christian belief system)

"The Jewish Christians under James included many members who had had close relationship with Jesus. They believed that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah. They viewed Jesus as a great prophet and rabbi, but not as a deity. There are many references in the New Testament to conflicts between the followers of Paul and the Jewish Christians."

Why do some RCC followers promote so many lies?

[Truth]

ReginaM wrote:

<quoted text>
Amen!
Thank you so much, Hank, you're a very dear soul. I went back and read some posts and saw where you were asking about me and Robert said he was praying. It means a great deal, you have no idea. Or maybe you do. Yes, I think you do. Thank you again, my friend. As always, hope you and your family are well. Have a blessed Thanksgiving!

Hey Regina,

You don't know how glad we are (my wife and myself) to hear that you are ok. My wife kept asking me, "have you heard from her yet?" We both were worried about you.

My wife and I put you on our prayer list and prayed everyday for you. Believe me, we know how those storms can be...we have been through many of them as we are not originally from Virginia.

I am so glad to see that people are helping out.

Do you need anything? I can use my resources and get your some help. Let me know.

Praise the Lord that you are ok.....

[Fr Robert Dye]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>

The Church functioned for the next 300 yrs before the letters of Paul would be considered inspired by the Holy Spirit!
You can't deny this history.

Mmmmmm...
.
Probably should be "It was close to 300 years before the Letters of St.Paul were formally declared to be inspired scripture at a council or synod."
.
The individual churches in various places were using them in the sacred liturgy before such declaration. In fact, it was such usage, which arose out of a sense of the divinely inspiried character of the writings, which led to the formal declaration, rather than the other way around.
.
I mention this primarily because we have had such misunderstanding by many Prots on this board, as if the CC were claiming that it is the declaration of the Church which made the writings scripture (divinely inspired). What we are actually saying is the RECOGNITION of this is expressed in declaration by the Church, after that first recognition grew within the individual church communities.
.
Work of the Holy Spirit, all around, in the writer, in the small communities, and finally, in the Council Declaration.
.
Mass in 2 min. Gotta go!
.
Rob

[Truth]

Orville wrote:

<quoted text>
There may be no evidence of Holy Tongues spoken by Jesus, but they are certainly a gift from Holy Spirit.
John 14:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
""Then Peter said unto them, Repent "(have a change of mind)", and be baptized"" "(i.e. immersed)" every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." "- with the evidence of speaking in tongues - ACTS 2:38.
Tounges:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Orville,

Today, we have the Word of God....we do not need the "speaking of tongues...."

Besides, the "speaking of tongues" was for the Jews....

In the Law it is written:

“With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
<<<<<I will speak to this people,>>>>>
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.”

[Michael]

preston wrote:

<quoted text>the truth that he and his wife are frauds doesnt bother me in the least. I aint in their skin.
and I would venture to say that I have called him a fraud a 1000 times or more.
God willing, it will be 5000 times in the future.
and you aint never been the type of being "proper" in the first place.
you and I BOTH know that you take turns being on one side or the other, and any person who agrees with you is as two faced as you are.
satisfied? I have always kept quiet as far as you were concerned because i already know the person that you are.lol

Preston says......

.......you and I BOTH know that you take turns being on one side or the other, and any person who agrees with you is as two faced as you are.

satisfied? I have always kept quiet as far as you were concerned because i already know the person that you are.lol

Michael says....

I don't take turns on anything. I am who I am, and if there is a loving God he would be proud to know, I use my own free will and judgements to make decisions, not like you who has so much mental baggage and you have to look to a higher power asking and praying for permission to live. Start thinking for yourself.

If the God you pray to exists, he/she is smart enough to see through your fake ID......and your name calling of others.

Your thinking is mired in shame and guilt, so subscribing to a particular religion can help you Preston, climb to a higher level of awareness.

BUSTED!

[Clay]

Free Mind wrote:

<quoted text>
Wrong again Clay.
The "Church" you speak of was a Jewish sect for about the first 70 years. They worshiped in temples and prayed as Jews. No one thought Jesus was God. That would have been a BIG no-no for the Jews.
(We know this from Jewish writings of the day.)
After the fall off the Temple (when Christian Jews waited for Jesus to return as he promised), it wasn't so cool to be Jewish in the Roman world. The first Gospel was written and the Jewish term "son of God" took on a completely new meaning.
Sorry your faith requires so many easily verifiable lies.

huh??

I never heard that before. I welcome any links you could provide. Otherwise I have to dismiss you as
another bigot, who wishes things te be true, so you believe them.

[Clay]

Free Mind wrote:

Reality 101 for the deniers....
"As shown by the numerous quotations in the New Testament books and other Christian writings of the 1st centuries, early Christians generally used and revered the Jewish Bible as Scripture... "
"Early Christians demonstrated a wide range of beliefs and practices, many of which were later rejected as heretical."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Christiani...

Nothing shocking there.
Keep reaching!

[Clay]

Free Mind wrote:

"There was great diversity within the Christian movement during the first few decades after Jesus' execution. Some of Jesus' followers (and those who never met Jesus but who were inspired by his teachings) settled in Jerusalem. But others spread across the known world, teaching very different messages. "Even in the same geographical area and sometimes in the same cities, different Christian teachers taught quite different gospels and had quite different views of who Jesus was and what he did."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_chov.ht...

Again, nothing shocking here.
Do you think its a bombshell that Christians had different opinions in the first century? Lol

An Earthly authority determined the correct understandings. This authority was the Catholic Church with the Bishops ordained by the Apostles.
Anything else?

[Michael]

jethro8 wrote:

<quoted text>your right,it is a sad sight to see,if there was/is a true church you would not have to live in fear of it,or be afraid of physical abuse if you speak out against something the church does that you disagree with.

Organized religion teaches followers to fear being different, to fear standing up for yourself, and to fear being an independant thinker.

Organized beliefs erode your own self trust by explaining why you are unable to be successful in managing life on your own terms.

I am sure there were millions praying that hurricane Sandy would miss their community. Well it didn't. It was worse than anticipated. If it did change course, we would never hear the end of "OUR PRAYERS WERE ANSWERED" thankyou to God.

There are many religious people who actually believe a God is sitting up on a cloud somewhere watching down on humanity day after day answering prayers and denying others. Counting every sparrow that dies, recording every sin committed.

There are millions who believe their loved ones who have died have ALL GONE TO HEAVEN (never heard anyone at a funeral claim their loved ones have gone to hell) and they too spend day after day looking down from heaven watching over their families on planet earth. If that is what heaven is all about, I will take my chances in hell.(lol)

[Clay]

Free Mind wrote:

http://www.religioustolerance. org/chr_chov.htm
The first Apostles didn't claim Jesus was a god.
"Jewish Christian movement: Jesus disciples and other followers who fled to the Galilee after Jesus' execution appear to have regrouped in Jerusalem under the leadership of James, one of Jesus' brothers. The group viewed themselves as a reform movement within Judaism. They organized a synagogue, worshiped and brought animals for ritual sacrifice at the Jerusalem Temple. They observed the Jewish holy days, practiced circumcision of their male children, strictly followed Kosher dietary laws, and practiced the teachings of Jesus as they interpreted them to be. They are frequently referred to today as the Jewish Christians.(These should not be confused with followers of modern-day Messianic Judaism who follow an evangelical Christian belief system)
"The Jewish Christians under James included many members who had had close relationship with Jesus. They believed that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah. They viewed Jesus as a great prophet and rabbi, but not as a deity. There are many references in the New Testament to conflicts between the followers of Paul and the Jewish Christians."
Why do some RCC followers promote so many lies?

And today there are other cults as well.
There were heretic cults in the first century and every century since.
Any other shocking bombshells?

The hierarchy of Bishops, Priests and Deacons determined authenticity of Christian teachings. Through the Church and only the Church could Christ deliver His truth to the world.
Our Lord did not use sporadic cults to deliver His Ministry. Those cults lived and died, and the Church carried on. Different teachings fizzled away, the Truth prevailed.

What else does the 'Mind that is free' have to offer?
Never mind, you bore me. I would rather discuss theology with a block wall.

[Truth]

confrinting with the word wrote:

who="Orville"
There may be no evidence of Holy Tongues spoken by Jesus, but they are certainly a gift from Holy Spirit.
John 14:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
""Then Peter said unto them, Repent "(have a change of mind)", and be baptized"" "(i.e. immersed)" every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." "- with the evidence of speaking in tongues - ACTS 2:38.
Tounges:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
**********
At least three times Jesus was quoted, then the writer said that "being INTERPRETED is..." NO tongues are unknown or strange to God.
As there are 6,000 tongues in the world, I doubt that any 'scholar' could even recognize all of them, much less could they interpret all of them. And THEN there are 'tongues of angels'.
KayMarie

Mark 16:20

20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and <<<<<confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.>>>>>

Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the <<<Jewish synagogue.>>> There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed. But the ~~~~~Jews who refused to believe~~~~~ stirred up the other Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers.

Acts 14:3

3 Long time therefore abode they *speaking boldly in the Lord,* <<<<<which gave testimony unto the WORD of his grace,>>>>> and ~~~~~granted signs and wonders to be DONE BY THEIR HANDS.~~~~~

[Truth]

marge wrote:

<quoted text>
And most of them sound like jibber to me but of course their not.
And of course unknown languages that cannot be interpreted have no meaning...
I believe some here are making this more difficult than it needs to be.

It is not difficult at all, Marge....

You just need discernment of the scriptures....

It is so simple...no one today has the power that was given to the apostles of the laying on of hands and giving someone the "gift to speak in tongues." NO ONE....

DO NOT BE DECEIVED....

[Michael]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
Nothing shocking there.
Keep reaching!

As you know there were many scriptures written. The catholic fathers from back in the day, have convinced the followers that they were instilled with "SPECIAL POWERS" to sort out the fraudulent gospels from the real McCoys. WOW!

Why would any gospel that described the life history of a man WHO ACTUALLY LIVED be deemed fraudulent?

Who writes books about an actual character who lived that was wrong?

Catholic agenda, by a handful of powerful religious men, who used the might and manpower of "General" Constantine to fight their cause to the death of others to further their cause.........WALLA! The catholic church evolves.

Sun Worship
The real secret of Constantine and the bishops of Rome was their cunning introduction of sun worship and paganism into Christianity. It was done so shrewdly that, and incredibly, it has been veiled within the faith for centuries. Through Constantine, paganism and Christianity joined hands in the Roman Empire.

Constantine a proud pagan probably said, its 324 AD, if you change the day of worship to the pagan sunday that I worship the sun god on, "I'M IN" Let the fighting begin.

UNBELIEVABLE!

[Truth]

marge wrote:

<quoted text>
And an angel of God would not speak contrary the the Word of God, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to deceive one born of Jesus, we go back to again, one must be born-again to know and see the kingdom of God.

Marge,

Are you saying that a Christian cannot be deceived????

If you believe this, Marge, you are SADLY mistaken...

Matthew 24:3-5

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the <<<disciples> >> came to him privately.“Tell us,” they said,“when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4 Jesus answered:~~~“Watch out that no one deceives you.~~~

5 ***For many will come in my name, claiming,‘I am the Messiah,’ and <will deceive many.>***

[Michael]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
And today there are other cults as well.
There were heretic cults in the first century and every century since.
Any other shocking bombshells?
The hierarchy of Bishops, Priests and Deacons determined authenticity of Christian teachings. Through the Church and only the Church could Christ deliver His truth to the world.
Our Lord did not use sporadic cults to deliver His Ministry. Those cults lived and died, and the Church carried on. Different teachings fizzled away, the Truth prevailed.
What else does the 'Mind that is free' have to offer?
Never mind, you bore me. I would rather discuss theology with a block wall.

Clay says.......The hierarchy of Bishops, Priests and Deacons determined authenticity of Christian teachings.

So! A very few select Men from 17 centuries ago, that you know nothing in a personal way about, have convinced you 100% of what they said is the actual truth.

The pope today who is in succession of the men from 17 centuries ago that you admire so much, this pope CLAIMS he didn't know about the sex abuse scandals were being committed by his very own minions around the world for years........

I wish I had some swamp land for sale. I could describe it nicely and you would buy it all.

UNBELIEVABLE!

[Michael]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
Again, nothing shocking here.
Do you think its a bombshell that Christians had different opinions in the first century? Lol
An Earthly authority determined the correct understandings. This authority was the Catholic Church with the Bishops ordained by the Apostles.
Anything else?

When one becomes afraid or unwilling to assume total respnsibility for your own life, one who prays for permission to continue living, than you're a perfect match for organized religion. CONGRATULATIONS!