Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

[MICHAEL]

4GVN wrote:

<quoted text>And yet you would deny the testamony of the many followers of Chirst who were willing to be martyered for thier knowledge of the Messiah. Men who(if it were not true) could have saved thier lives by simply denying thier beliefs. But they would not. Do you believe that these men would have chosen to die for a 'LIE'? That would make no sense. But you choose to disregard and deny the testamonies of these eye witnesses of Jesus. Then please tell us why.

Where were all these wannabe martyrs at the curcifixion? Where were all the supporters of Jesus at the crucifixion? Where was this deadman walking named Lazeours? How about the blindman or the 5,000 loaves and fishes people.........no where to be found. Why?.......something is wrong!!

Scriptures claim many of the 12 apostles were so fearful that they locked themselves in a hidden room in FEAR for their lives, yet the scriptures claim just a short time later they are out and about preaching to the very people they were hiding from in the first place.(lol) Tell me now does that make common sense to you?

Before either Christians or Muslims spoke of martyrdom, Jewish communities celebrated those who were willing to "die for God." Their monotheist God.

I have no first hand information as to whether these people martyred themselves or were executed during the battles between the christians, jews and romans, and added stories that they martyred themselves. There was much bloodshed then.

David Koresh claimed to have martyred himself for his belief in his Branch Davidian movement. Do you feel sad for David for his heroic deed? Muslims martyr themselves for Muhamed? Should you feel sad for them? Why should any other group for sad for the christians?

Tall stories written by unknown, unprovable authors, at unknown dates, written in places unknown. There are no original manuscripts of the scriptures but copies of copies of copies.

Someone TODAY claiming to die for their savior regardless of their belief would have the people in white coats remove them to a physc ward. Right?

Its all drama about incidents that no one can verify. Do I care? Not really. Should I? Why?

[Orville]

jethro8 wrote:

The New Testament church is made up of individual born-again believers who can go directly to God in prayer without the intercession any man. Christ is our only Intercessor and is our High Priest.
In 1 Tim. 2:1, Paul instructs individuals to pray, and describes various subjects of prayer. In Verse 5, he states, "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim. 2:5). There is both private (Matt. 6:6) and public prayer (Acts 4:24-31).
Hebrews 4:14-16, states that Christ is our High Priest who personally knows our every need and emotion. We are to boldly go to the throne of Grace (God the Father), to find help in time of need. In the Jesus' model prayer, Luke 11:1-4, Christ instructed us to pray to the Father. All prayer in the Bible is addressed to God the Father. When we pray to God the Father we are praying through Jesus Christ and being led by the Holy Spirit. We address our prayer to the Father because He is the Head of the Trinity.
Nowhere in Scripture are we instructed to pray to a "saint", Mary, or anyone else but God the Father. Christ is our sole Intercessor, no other exists. We are to confess our sins directly to God and personally ask Him for forgiveness (1 John 1:9).

Amen. The Holy Word of God states such and we are the proof. If not, I would of tossed the Bible 23 years ago, and Jesus with it.

However, I love Jesus and God our Father via the Holy Spirit to such a degree, my life is more than ready to be given for Holy God-Jesus.

[MICHAEL]

Orville wrote:

<quoted text>
The Inquisitions will occur again. By a decree issued by the Vatican. Round II fairly soon.

I don't believe that, and I am sure you don't believe that.

Killing people back in the day might have been OK. but today, people are much better educated and killing for any reason is not going to happen.

You are just being dramatic........

[7th Day Catholics Rock]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
You might have a Catholic book (or a book written by a Catholic) that states that Mary died, then went body and soul into Heaven. But I believe the official Church teaching is silent on what took place prior to her being raised body and soul like Elijah, Enoch and perhaps Moses?
I don't want to state anything outside of Church teachings, so I appreciate you calling me out on it. I assumed - since Mary was without sin - that she wouldn't have died, because death is a result of sin.

Mary was concieved in sin like the rest of us.

James 1:15

Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.

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Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--

Psalm 51:5

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV
King James Version

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

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Romans 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

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1 Peter 2:22 "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth."
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1 John 3:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

[Orville]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
Come on Ore, what I stated is common knowledge
By historians.
Do you guys even offer an alternative scenario about how the Bible was compiled and brought to you?
No. You people seem to think it magically fell out of the sky and the Apostles immediately handed it out.(for the folks to interpret themselves of course)
How did we get a bible? Who did God use to establish and label it the Bible? It never came with a table of contents telling us that Thomas is not inspired but Revelation is. Who decided?

Clay, I and other's testify that Scripture is from Holy God. The Scriptures state so also. Further, Gods authority, reality, and presence is obvious if embraced through Scripture. He speaks to man through Scripture and if one is truley blessed, HE will also speak to your person in HIS Holy Still voice.

[Orville]

MICHAEL wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't believe that, and I am sure you don't believe that.
Killing people back in the day might have been OK. but today, people are much better educated and killing for any reason is not going to happen.
You are just being dramatic........

Really?

Iraq, Afgahnistan, our very streets, abortions some 50 million infant fetus's.

Perhaps it is something to reflect upon.

[preston]

LTM wrote:

<quoted text>
Have you read His book 'THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE'

didnt stay away from us very long did you? which makes you lying again.
but youdint leave anyway, you were lurking I felt your presence

[MICHAEL]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
ah, I don't think so..
Look, people will write all sorts of things without any evidence. The woman is/was hated by evangelicals AND atheist alike because she was a Catholic nun who spoke out against abortion and other immoral choices
People feel uncomfortable having a living saint tell them they are in sin, so the natural thing to do is 'push' this away; spread rumors and such to make them feel at ease about their life choices.
I believe this is why the Catholic Church is hated so much. People don't want to face their conscience, so they lash out at the annoying pillar that is reminding them they are in sin.

Face their consiciences......you say! BALONEY!

If people do not like the Roman Catholic church, or organized religion for what ever their reasons they can walk away........like I did and the many thousands who do so every year in america.

The catholic church boasts about being the advocates of morality and justice, yet, they have a very poor history of following those very tenets themselves.

When an organization claims that "THEY ARE RIGHT AND OTHERS ARE NOT"..........get me out of there!.........and many are saying that today.

[7th Day Catholics Rock]

Live Action wrote:

<quoted text>They hate you for the things you know and the things you do the way you live your life because you are righteous.or at least more so than those who hate you.

Thank You Brother however I am still in training it is written there is none rightous but God no not one. I do pray and wait for that glourious day when we will be raised incorruptable and will be rightous. I am a fellow servant withh you Christ.
God Bless

[Loren Eberly]

Debt:

The majority of 53% of US the Government of this Representative Republic that vote and the 47% nonvoters that sit on their dead hands and whine; Successfully elected obnoxious President, Governor, Representatives of US the Government, County Commissioners, Township Trustees, Mayors, City Council, School Administrators and Board Members.

That borrowed money from FDR Social Security Program and Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders.

President, the Justices they appoint, and Elected Officials hold Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and America’s grandchildren’s children, Government employees, Parents, Teachers, Veterans, Police, Firemen, and Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Representatives deny Collective Bargaining Rights accountable.

To fund Illegal drug users and Illegal Immigrants, lottery, casino, and keno losers, unemployed Union workers replaced with nonunion workers, Human Traffickers, waitresses that pander for life for $2.00 per hour, slaves in enterprise zones, low-income child labor, consumers, and taxpayers, volunteers without wages, and nonunion workers willing to work for fewer wages than they can afford life. That pays with welfare checks, food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.

Pay sales tax on the more stock dividends (money) OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders (money marketers) market quarterly. In the wholesale and retail price of every product and service Human Beings use for life. And School Boards and Government needs to build, maintain and operate schools, infrastructure, and provide local and national security, and Government services. That gets only product or service.

Needed to measure and maintain the strength and growth of this UNAFFORDABLE economy and distribute money Human Beings cannot digest, burn in internal combustion engines, or burn to heat and cool their American Dream. Into OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders portfolios.

This is defiant of USA Labor Law, The Constitution, and demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce and common sense demands.

Demanding every Stockholder, corporation, farmer, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; of every worker, consumer, and taxpayer's wages (union contract), healthcare, pension, investment and independent business profit. This enables every worker, consumer, and taxpayer to pay healthcare insurance premium or pay healthcare provider. Pay ALL taxes and pay for every product and service they use for life. With money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit. And enables every parent to educate, love, nurse, nurture, discipline, protect, and provide; for every child (job) they conceive. And fund schools, infrastructure, local and national security, government services, and etc.; with money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.

Defying USA Labor Law, the Constitution, and Realities demands is bankrupting USA. Makes free, fair, and affordable commerce IMPOSSIBLE; Makes funding schools IMPOSSIBLE; Makes balancing every budget IMPOSSIBLE; Makes Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and Americas grandchildren's children life UNAFFORDABLE; and created Ohio’s $1.35 trillion budget deficit, the $40 trillion social security and the $16 trillion national debt. America’s grandchildren’s children are responsible to pay Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders interest with this debt until they are 18 years old. America’s grandchildren’s children cannot pay this debt.

[7th Day Catholics Rock]

LTM wrote:

<quoted text>
Have you read His book 'THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE'

Good o hear from YOU. God Bless !!!

[MICHAEL]

Orville wrote:

<quoted text>
Really?
Iraq, Afgahnistan, our very streets, abortions some 50 million infant fetus's.
Perhaps it is something to reflect upon.

Those wars are not driven by the vatican, they are driven by the american government policies that walks around the planet with a big stick.

Give me a list of ALL the countries in the world the last 200 years that the USA HASN'T invaded, started a war with, or meddled in their affairs?.........can't find many can you?

Give me a list of the countries in the world during the past 200 years that Afghanastan, or Iraq, or Saudi Arabia have invaded, started a war with, or meddled in their affairs? Not many right?

One day some other country will become the world bully and give america a taste of their own medicine.

America has spent TRILLIONS of dollars as being "GOODWILL AMBASADORS" to many countries. The last few years most of that good has eroded away.

The vatican has nothing to do with it........

[Clay]

Orville wrote:

<quoted text>
Clay, I and other's testify that Scripture is from Holy God. The Scriptures state so also. Further, Gods authority, reality, and presence is obvious if embraced through Scripture. He speaks to man through Scripture and if one is truley blessed, HE will also speak to your person in HIS Holy Still voice.

No the scriptures (New Testament anyway) do not state they are from Holy God. Your testimony is not something I would call proof.
If you all are going to trash the Catholic Church and deny historians account of how the Bible came to be....
all I asked is for an alternative scenario! None on ya offer anything that makes sense on how we received the Bible.

Frankly, I'm not sure why you even subscribe to the label the Catholic Church put on those 27 books of the New Testament. You seem to hate everything Catholic, EXCEPT their Bible. This makes no sense. I see why its important for you all to deny the truth of the New Testament. To acknowledge the origins of these books are to acknowledge the validity of the Church that compiled it!
Is it better to be ignorant, that way God won't hold you into account on baring false witness against the Church?

[7th Day Catholics Rock]

MICHAEL wrote:

<quoted text>
Those wars are not driven by the vatican, they are driven by the american government policies that walks around the planet with a big stick.
Give me a list of ALL the countries in the world the last 200 years that the USA HASN'T invaded, started a war with, or meddled in their affairs?.........can't find many can you?
Give me a list of the countries in the world during the past 200 years that Afghanastan, or Iraq, or Saudi Arabia have invaded, started a war with, or meddled in their affairs? Not many right?
One day some other country will become the world bully and give america a taste of their own medicine.
America has spent TRILLIONS of dollars as being "GOODWILL AMBASADORS" to many countries. The last few years most of that good has eroded away.
The vatican has nothing to do with it........

Revelation 13:12

And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them who dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

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Revelation 13:14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.
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Revelation 13:15 He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

[Clay]

MICHAEL wrote:

<quoted text>
Face their consiciences......you say! BALONEY!
If people do not like the Roman Catholic church, or organized religion for what ever their reasons they can walk away........like I did and the many thousands who do so every year in america.
The catholic church boasts about being the advocates of morality and justice, yet, they have a very poor history of following those very tenets themselves.
When an organization claims that "THEY ARE RIGHT AND OTHERS ARE NOT"..........get me out of there!.........and many are saying that today.

And you are the poster boy on why people lash out at the Catholic Church!

I'd imagine -for the Michaels of the world - the Church is a thorn in your side. Its a daily reminder of the choice you made to reject God and embrace material things.
Isn't this why you make it your mission to make the Church 'go away' and pull as many Catholics away from it as possible??

Misery loves company, I guess.

"Im not miserable, my life is complete and perfect"

Is it Mike? Then why the daily barrage of anti Catholic material?
Why is it soooo important for you to bring down this Church? Why the obsessive amount of attention? You can't even start your day until you attack this Church??

News flash: The Church is never going away. It will always be there until the end of time. Matthew 28:20

It is the pillar of truth that everyone can see and hear. 1tim 3:15

The gates of hell will never prevail and neither will anyone on this forum - including you mike. Matthew 16:18

We know the Church teaches perfectly on truth because Jesus promised to guide His Church into all truth. John 16 12-13

It is infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit on teachings and morals.

And these teachings are broken by E V E R Y Catholic that ever lived! So don't bother with some meaningless news article from 8 yrs ago about a Priest that was arrested.*shakes head*

on a side note: Lets go Vikings!!:)

[Clay]

LTM wrote:

<quoted text>
Have you read His book 'THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE'

I have not. But I will pick it up now that I see he is a man of integrity and principle.
I just learned he and his wife spent time with Mother Theresa in the slums of Calcutta. Interesting.
I also learned he doesn't trash the Catholic Church ( neither does Billy Graham)- much to the dismay of his fellow evangelical preachers.

[7th Day Catholics Rock]

7th Day Catholics Rock wrote:

<quoted text>Not sure why you would think the Rapture is not clear however the rest of you post was interesting.

P.S.

2 Thessalonians 2:8

And then shall that Wicked One be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the breath of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Job 4:9At the breath of God they are destroyed; at the blast of his anger they perish.
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Isaiah 11:4but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.
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Isaiah 30:28His breath is like a rushing torrent, rising up to the neck. He shakes the nations in the sieve of destruction; he places in the jaws of the peoples a bit that leads them astray.

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Matthew 16:27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

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2 Thessalonians 2:3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
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1 Timothy 6:14to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
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2 Timothy 1:10but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
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2 Timothy 4:1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge:
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2 Timothy 4:8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
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Titus 2:13while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Does it sound like the world goes on after the 3.5 years of tribulation. NO

Then after the Thousand Years the rest if the dead are raised unto the final judgement.

[jethro8]

hojo wrote:

<quoted text>
I have read and been inundated by your ongoing anti-catholic (slanted - bias) and "dishonest answers"!.... That is why I am "enlightening you with TRUE, AUTHENTICATED, PROVEN, CONFIRMED and VERIFIABLE----------"hone st answers"------!!

honest answers from a biased website? how do you figure that?

[Robert F]

7th Day Catholics Rock wrote:

<quoted text>Can't argue with that. Im some cases it was a messenger of the Lord such as Gabriel.
Hebrews 10:31
King James Version (KJV)
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Yes it could leave one weak in body as well.

Greetings 7thDR good friend...

Nicely put....

:)

[Oxbow]

434

guest wrote:

<quoted text>
Great post, Oxbow.
His heavenly preexistence would imply that he was "fully formed" and therefore, did not need any genetic input from Mary. He did not need the 'human' genome (1/2 of his genetic makeup) from Mary.
She was his earthly mother, yes. But she was NOT the Mother of God.

She was God's handmaiden...and said so: For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.