United House of Prayer for All People...

United House of Prayer for All People: Bishop's body in Charlot...

There are 10082 comments on the www.topix.net story from Apr 7, 2008, titled United House of Prayer for All People: Bishop's body in Charlot.... In it, www.topix.net reports that:

The body of Bishop S.C. 'Sweet Daddy' Madison -- only the third leader in the 89-year-history of the United House of Prayer for All People -- will lie in state Thursday night at the denomination's palatial N.C. ...

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TheSOZ

Charlotte, NC

#1272 Jan 25, 2011
Organized Religion wrote:
<quoted text>
No, not at all, I did not find you to be combative. I do understand things can and will be embelished when information is passed from person to person. I completely agree there must be order and there must be rules and regulations in hopes of stability.
I don't exactly remember the reasoning for the letter to attend a different house, hoping someone will explain why that is required and what was the reasoning behind it.
Don't quote me, but members can go as they please. But if you hold an officer position, you must get a letter from the pastor. This is good because some folks don't handle, nor conduct church business like it should be. Plus if you're known to have issues, some sort of trouble maker and you still want to hold that spot, they can deny you. But the deny isn't like "go back where you came, but it can bel" Members here stroll around like rolling dice, they want to find the right fit. so what happened the other night was justified as far as bylaws.

So the member was an officer, she rolled out of Derita, which leaves them without an officer, thus pushing an officer out of a spot in Gastonia. If she wasn't an officer, it would've mattered.

Bailey was just doing what needed to be done, he asked question and the pastor should have just backed off and said "I'm wrong" because he was. He would still be the pastor.

I have to say the Howell jumped out there. He wasn't playing buddy. It was sad to see the guy walk out the door though. I cried
Cultastic

Washington, DC

#1273 Jan 26, 2011
TheSOZ wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't quote me, but members can go as they please. But if you hold an officer position, you must get a letter from the pastor. This is good because some folks don't handle, nor conduct church business like it should be. Plus if you're known to have issues, some sort of trouble maker and you still want to hold that spot, they can deny you. But the deny isn't like "go back where you came, but it can bel" Members here stroll around like rolling dice, they want to find the right fit. so what happened the other night was justified as far as bylaws.
So the member was an officer, she rolled out of Derita, which leaves them without an officer, thus pushing an officer out of a spot in Gastonia. If she wasn't an officer, it would've mattered.
Bailey was just doing what needed to be done, he asked question and the pastor should have just backed off and said "I'm wrong" because he was. He would still be the pastor.
I have to say the Howell jumped out there. He wasn't playing buddy. It was sad to see the guy walk out the door though. I cried
I recently decided to be silent because my intentions for posting were being taken way out of context. However, I wanted to comment on the recent issue with the Pastor in NC. In the old days it was required of any member on an auxiliary, not exclusive to officers, to get a letter before changing membership. I think the only reason was to mitigate people from going from church to church. On one hand it alerts the new pastor about the person’s history as a member. Also remember when one person leaves one house it adversely affects the finances in that house. The “rule” has always been loosely enforced. It depends on the status of the member. Someone who barely comes to service and doesn’t pay money wouldn’t matter in this case. I have to check my correspondence but I’m not exactly sure that it was a documented or written rule in the by-laws that you need a letter to change memberships.

The underlying issue in this case was money. The woman that decided to follow the minister is a "TOP PAYER." It's important to note that he was the former pastor of Derita and was moved for an "undisclosed" reason. He was sent to Gastonia without the same membership he had in Derita. While no current member will accept this; the bottom line is that the Bishop punished him by sending him to a house where the people don't know him.

I'll break it down. People pay Pastor's offering based upon how much they like the Pastor. You separate him from his people and he has to start all over again, thus a cut in salary. Why would he deny those who feed him to follow him? It wasn't about anything more than the Bishop proving who has complete and total authority and autonomy in the church. It’s likely that the current Pastor of Derita complained that some of the members left and followed the other Pastor to Gastonia. Thus he wasn’t getting the desired paycheck. Also, very few people join the UHOP these days so it’s very difficult to get money, oops I meant members.

I commend the young brother for standing up to the Bishop. Most of the men will not do that. He did it the right way before witnesses….
TheSOZ

Charlotte, NC

#1274 Jan 26, 2011
Cultastic wrote:
<quoted text>
I recently decided to be silent because my intentions for posting were being taken way out of context. However, I wanted to comment on the recent issue with the Pastor in NC. In the old days it was required of any member on an auxiliary, not exclusive to officers, to get a letter before changing membership. I think the only reason was to mitigate people from going from church to church. On one hand it alerts the new pastor about the person’s history as a member. Also remember when one person leaves one house it adversely affects the finances in that house. The “rule” has always been loosely enforced. It depends on the status of the member. Someone who barely comes to service and doesn’t pay money wouldn’t matter in this case. I have to check my correspondence but I’m not exactly sure that it was a documented or written rule in the by-laws that you need a letter to change memberships.
The underlying issue in this case was money. The woman that decided to follow the minister is a "TOP PAYER." It's important to note that he was the former pastor of Derita and was moved for an "undisclosed" reason. He was sent to Gastonia without the same membership he had in Derita. While no current member will accept this; the bottom line is that the Bishop punished him by sending him to a house where the people don't know him.
I'll break it down. People pay Pastor's offering based upon how much they like the Pastor. You separate him from his people and he has to start all over again, thus a cut in salary. Why would he deny those who feed him to follow him? It wasn't about anything more than the Bishop proving who has complete and total authority and autonomy in the church. It’s likely that the current Pastor of Derita complained that some of the members left and followed the other Pastor to Gastonia. Thus he wasn’t getting the desired paycheck. Also, very few people join the UHOP these days so it’s very difficult to get money, oops I meant members.
I commend the young brother for standing up to the Bishop. Most of the men will not do that. He did it the right way before witnesses….
Yeah this is all true. I just didn't come from that direction. But while you commend the pastor, I'm not sure if you were there to hear and understand the line of questioning. btw, I'm sure the other pastor complained, lol "TOP PAYER GONE, HALF THE CHOIR GONE" but Bailey would have let it rest and it would have played out at the end of convocation, maybe.

When I say the pastor was just continuously talking and being disrespectful, he truly was, it was like he went outside to get some air and came back with something he had to get off his chest. But it was over and no harm had came. But he started it back up.

I've read your comments, I would have an opinion, but it's not worth going backwards. Just know, you're not alone. Some members have found what they want and others will continue to be lost.

We can't return if we where not apart of that generation, the transformation is too rapid and the young people know very little about the organization and Jesus. But that's just me

Since: Jan 09

High Point, NC

#1275 Jan 26, 2011
I'm a devoted member to The United House Of Prayer For All People and all i have to say to this entire statement is wow.. SMH
UHOP Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we are not the same, but what this testifies to is that the TRUTH can be learned, if you are willing to seek and have an open mind. i'm still learning and their are tons of things to learn. I too am biblically ignorant in some things. To understand the Scriptural definition of "ignorance" read Lev chap 4, and 5. Despite my ignorance, i'm going to keep reading and praying because the Spirit of Truth, which is NOT A MAN, but is the SPIRIT of the WORD which ultimately is THE FATHER's Spirit will guide anyone who seek to know the truth.
I'm a firm believer in the UHOPFAP, not for everything that it does but because I trust in THE FATHER's Word.
I believe that Grace, McCollough, and Madison were sent by the Almighty. They had a pure heart with a desire to help folks. I'm not going to debate with anybody about these 3 men; i don't care what. Some uhop members will not like the next statement and it hurts my heart to say it. Our CURRENT BISHOP(Mr. Bailey) was not sent by THE ALMIGHTY and neither is or was he chosen; in his heart he knows that and there are members who know it too. I don't care what member, preacher, or church member says, the current leader is not representing the organization and neither preaching the True Gospel of the Jesus Christ or more correctly Yahusha ha Mashiach(the Anointed One). All i have to do is listen to him speak and his words and letters that he has sent bear witness to the man that he is. Just like in days of old a little bit truth is mixed in with a error.
I hope someone takes this too him because just as King Saul was judged so too will he be judged and is already judged. We are living in the dispensation of grace; this is the only reason why THE ALMIGHTY has allowed to a certain extent for man to spiral to a point of no return. The Apostle Paul prophesied in the LAST DAYS what will happen and it will happen first in THE ALMIGHTY's House.
If ALL, not some because there are some UHOP preachers who do preach the TRUE GOSPEL, the UHOPFAP preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ(Yahusha ha Mashaich) like the Apostle Paul preached, i believe that ALL men everywhere will be drawn YHWH's House. Not one Apostle preached himself. And if anybody wants to know what and who Paul preached, it is in THE BOOK. He PREACHED the MESSIAH(CHRIST)-the Anointed one.(Phil 1:18, Rom 15:19, 2Cor 1:19)
So will i continue to go UHOPFAP? Yes. Because THE ALMIGHTY promised in HIS Word that HE would meet me in HIS House and that I will find joy. And despite some of the flaws in the UHOPFAP doctrine and despite of the fact that our Current Bishop wiggled his way to leadership, I still have JOY.
This current situation the UHOPFAP is in will pass also, just like King Saul's leadership ended. I just hope it don't take 40 years, but i got a feeling that his ascension to leadership is an act of judgement.

Since: Jan 09

High Point, NC

#1276 Jan 26, 2011
SMH you don't have to be a member just respect what your familiy chosses to do its thier soul not your's. God has thier plan not you smh
FREE FROM UHOP wrote:
The members are BRAINWASHED!!! My grandparents are brainwashed! All of my aunts, uncles and family members left the HOP, but they remained! Devoted! Giving $$$$$ Sunday after Sunday. I just want them out of there! I pray every night that God will deliver them, even in their old age with their set ways.

Since: Jan 09

High Point, NC

#1277 Jan 26, 2011
Y are you all even having this conversation. I'm a member of the Hop always & forever and this is what I have to say. God has his plan for us all. it is no ones bussiness to pass judgement let God do his work and you play your part and worship him. Let God worry about the many souls in this world because obviously thats God's Work.
Long time member

Winston Salem, NC

#1278 Jan 27, 2011
from what I understand Daddy Bailey had spoken to the pastor in the past about him getting the "bighead" and I gueess it was the last straw for Daddy Bailey when he found out the pastor was allowing members from Derida to follow him to Gastonia..(which is not allowed) Daddy said he knew what the pastor was doing. Ther have been other elders/pastors that have tried to create their own congregation with in the HOP only to leave and start their own church. The pastor knew the rules and allowed members to follow him to Gastonia anyway and I'm sure it looked like he was trying to start his own congregation and Daddy decided he would address it right then. All the pastor had to say was he was sorry for the misunderstanding and the whole issure would have been over, but when Daddy asked him (the pastor) if he was ready to admit he was wrong, the pastor refused therefore he (the pastor) was adding fuel to the fire. Daddy also sent word to Gastonia that the (dethroned)pastor was not allowed on the grounds of the HOP in Gastonia and if he came on the grounds he was to be escorted off and he he gave them any trouble someone was to call 911. I truly hate that this happened at all.
CULTASTIC

Washington, DC

#1279 Jan 27, 2011
TheSOZ wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah this is all true. I just didn't come from that direction. But while you commend the pastor, I'm not sure if you were there to hear and understand the line of questioning. btw, I'm sure the other pastor complained, lol "TOP PAYER GONE, HALF THE CHOIR GONE" but Bailey would have let it rest and it would have played out at the end of convocation, maybe.
The issue is a little deeper than that. Think about it for just a second. Most people will obey the Bishop withouth reservation. Whatever he says is final. When Bailey started the dialouge the first time saying that "He knew what he was doing." It already set the stage that said he was some how doing something wrong.

The Bishop ultimately handled this situation incorrectly in my opinion. Read I Timothy 3:1-6 if you get an opportunity and tell me what you think.

You mentioned the Return before but let me just share some food for thought. The Bishop is in his late 50s or early 60s not exactly sure. Bishop Grace has been dead for over 50 years. How much can he possibly know about that time in the UHOP?
CULTASTIC

Washington, DC

#1280 Jan 27, 2011
Long time member wrote:
from what I understand Daddy Bailey had spoken to the pastor in the past about him getting the "bighead" and I gueess it was the last straw for Daddy Bailey when he found out the pastor was allowing members from Derida to follow him to Gastonia..(which is not allowed) Daddy said he knew what the pastor was doing. Ther have been other elders/pastors that have tried to create their own congregation with in the HOP only to leave and start their own church. The pastor knew the rules and allowed members to follow him to Gastonia anyway and I'm sure it looked like he was trying to start his own congregation and Daddy decided he would address it right then. All the pastor had to say was he was sorry for the misunderstanding and the whole issure would have been over, but when Daddy asked him (the pastor) if he was ready to admit he was wrong, the pastor refused therefore he (the pastor) was adding fuel to the fire. Daddy also sent word to Gastonia that the (dethroned)pastor was not allowed on the grounds of the HOP in Gastonia and if he came on the grounds he was to be escorted off and he he gave them any trouble someone was to call 911. I truly hate that this happened at all.
Bands move from house to house and it's never ever a problem. The Bishop had a personal vendetta and he used the service as his stage to show who was in charge that's all it is. No one sees anything wrong with the Bishop telling someone they are not allowed in GOD's House simply because they disagreed with him about a stupid loop-hole in a loosely written "rule." I've checked my copies of the by-laws and I haven't found the "letter" rule yet.

This is not about who's wrong and right. Score a victory for the Bishop he got rid of the pastor and now he has made more men and members afraid of him.
CULTASTIC

Washington, DC

#1281 Jan 27, 2011
2008rebirthx wrote:
Y are you all even having this conversation. I'm a member of the Hop always & forever and this is what I have to say. God has his plan for us all. it is no ones bussiness to pass judgement let God do his work and you play your part and worship him. Let God worry about the many souls in this world because obviously thats God's Work.
Just a question for you do you think GOD has a plan for those who are atheist or who worship Satan? Discussing religion is not a judgement. Denominations are all man-made so why is it such a terrible thing to discuss man's creation for clarity?
CULTASTIC

Washington, DC

#1282 Jan 27, 2011
2008rebirthx wrote:
Y are you all even having this conversation. I'm a member of the Hop always & forever and this is what I have to say. God has his plan for us all. it is no ones bussiness to pass judgement let God do his work and you play your part and worship him. Let God worry about the many souls in this world because obviously thats God's Work.
Let me attempt to answer your question. I participate in the discussion for informational purposes. I share some of the things I've learned and I also learn from others who post here. The problem with most religions, including but not limited to the UHOP is the lack of education and knowledge. I'm not overly religious and/or self righteous. However, I discuss religion just like I discuss sports, or politics. Now if the content is offensive to you I certainly do apologize to you. However, I would also like to add that you commented but you think that the conversation should end.

I'm not tied to a particular church or church leader therefore my thoughts are not emotional when it comes down to religion. You'd be surprised what you would learn if you start to discuss the subject devoid of what you've been taught all of your life. I'm not here to persuade anyone to leave the UHOP. However, it's well within my right to discuss this controversial subject. Pardon me again if I've offended you. At the same time some one has read this thread that has been enlightened. That person would be my target audience. I only say the things that everyone else discusses in private.
TheSOZ

Charlotte, NC

#1283 Jan 27, 2011
CULTASTIC wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue is a little deeper than that. Think about it for just a second. Most people will obey the Bishop withouth reservation. Whatever he says is final. When Bailey started the dialouge the first time saying that "He knew what he was doing." It already set the stage that said he was some how doing something wrong.
The Bishop ultimately handled this situation incorrectly in my opinion. Read I Timothy 3:1-6 if you get an opportunity and tell me what you think.
You mentioned the Return before but let me just share some food for thought. The Bishop is in his late 50s or early 60s not exactly sure. Bishop Grace has been dead for over 50 years. How much can he possibly know about that time in the UHOP?
"I Timothy 3:1-6" I see where you're going. I guess that should be applied. But I'm also guessing there must be a scripture to defend Bailey on this too. We don't have to find it. But you're opinion is truly a valid one when placing the scripture on it.

I know who you are just so you know. I think you're a good man, we can leave it at. I have no quarrels with you or anyone on this site. Reading the post is kind of interesting.
Cultastic

Washington, DC

#1284 Jan 27, 2011
TheSOZ wrote:
<quoted text>
"I Timothy 3:1-6" I see where you're going. I guess that should be applied. But I'm also guessing there must be a scripture to defend Bailey on this too. We don't have to find it. But you're opinion is truly a valid one when placing the scripture on it.
I know who you are just so you know. I think you're a good man, we can leave it at. I have no quarrels with you or anyone on this site. Reading the post is kind of interesting.
Hey brother I'm pretty sure every one knows who I am LOL. Just kidding, I respect your ability to entertain the discussion without anger towards me or anyone else.

Just one thing I want to address. You said "you're guessing there is a scripture to defend Bailey". I'd like to challenge you to read the scripture more so that you don't have to guess. It's okay to believe what you believe. However, if it's not scripturally based you don't have to accept it; regardless to who says it. Just a thought

Since: Jan 09

High Point, NC

#1285 Jan 27, 2011
Your right why did I comment if I want this conversation to end I can argue about this all day and have a book of bible verse to support my argument but its no point.SMH good bye
CULTASTIC wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me attempt to answer your question. I participate in the discussion for informational purposes. I share some of the things I've learned and I also learn from others who post here. The problem with most religions, including but not limited to the UHOP is the lack of education and knowledge. I'm not overly religious and/or self righteous. However, I discuss religion just like I discuss sports, or politics. Now if the content is offensive to you I certainly do apologize to you. However, I would also like to add that you commented but you think that the conversation should end.
I'm not tied to a particular church or church leader therefore my thoughts are not emotional when it comes down to religion. You'd be surprised what you would learn if you start to discuss the subject devoid of what you've been taught all of your life. I'm not here to persuade anyone to leave the UHOP. However, it's well within my right to discuss this controversial subject. Pardon me again if I've offended you. At the same time some one has read this thread that has been enlightened. That person would be my target audience. I only say the things that everyone else discusses in private.
Organized Religion

Philadelphia, PA

#1286 Jan 27, 2011
I've spoken to a few people who are current and former elders of the church and some reviwed their correspondence and could not locate anything in reference to "members" however, they were able to locate correspodence in reference to an elder needing a letter.

Here's my question, if a minister tells me I can not participate in that house without a letter, and I continue to attend and ignore the request for the letter; what can the minister do, outside of not allowing me to work on a club? Is he to reject my offering and tithes?
Cultastic

Washington, DC

#1287 Jan 27, 2011
Organized Religion wrote:
I've spoken to a few people who are current and former elders of the church and some reviwed their correspondence and could not locate anything in reference to "members" however, they were able to locate correspodence in reference to an elder needing a letter.
Here's my question, if a minister tells me I can not participate in that house without a letter, and I continue to attend and ignore the request for the letter; what can the minister do, outside of not allowing me to work on a club? Is he to reject my offering and tithes?
That's all I was able to find as well. I also spoke to a few older elders both present and former. They can't find it documented.

I said it earlier the entire situation was a political move that involved personal feelings and money. The rest is a mute point. It will never matter though because ultimately Mr. Bailey will be alright. I wonder who really cares about Richardson's welfare going forward. Keep in mind his only crime was asking the Bishop to show him where he was wrong.
Im Free

Hockessin, DE

#1288 Jan 27, 2011
There's been many many years since I've been to the HOP so I know nothing more than what I've heard on this board about the incident, however I witnessed a simular incident happening before when a prominate and dedicated elder preached Jesus and not Daddy and the members would come from far and near to hear him preach.

The Bishop and elders got intimidated and they ousted him out of his church and put him in the street with nowhere to go. No one cared about his soul nor the soul of the members that sympathized with him. HOP has no loyalty, allegiance nor christianity when you preach anything other than that Daddy rhetoric.

Years ago, the letter were not mandatory, however the individual would provide a letter if he/she wanted to continue to serve in the same capacity as before.

Excuse me because i said that I would not say anything else, but I am always reminded of the injustices that I witnessed in the HOP.


Agape
FREE FROM UHOP

Sykesville, MD

#1289 Jan 27, 2011
Im Free wrote:
There's been many many years since I've been to the HOP so I know nothing more than what I've heard on this board about the incident, however I witnessed a simular incident happening before when a prominate and dedicated elder preached Jesus and not Daddy and the members would come from far and near to hear him preach.
The Bishop and elders got intimidated and they ousted him out of his church and put him in the street with nowhere to go. No one cared about his soul nor the soul of the members that sympathized with him. HOP has no loyalty, allegiance nor christianity when you preach anything other than that Daddy rhetoric.
Years ago, the letter were not mandatory, however the individual would provide a letter if he/she wanted to continue to serve in the same capacity as before.
Excuse me because i said that I would not say anything else, but I am always reminded of the injustices that I witnessed in the HOP.
Agape
The only way the HOP will grow is if they preach Jesus. In all my years at the East Baltimore house, I rarely saw people join. No one cares about Daddy. I will respect a bishop, but I will not treat him like a God especially when his actions don't match those of God.
Im Free

Hockessin, DE

#1290 Jan 27, 2011
excuse the spelling. I meant prominent elder
organized religion

Philadelphia, PA

#1291 Jan 28, 2011
FREE FROM UHOP wrote:
<quoted text>
The only way the HOP will grow is if they preach Jesus. In all my years at the East Baltimore house, I rarely saw people join. No one cares about Daddy. I will respect a bishop, but I will not treat him like a God especially when his actions don't match those of God.
Correct no man should be treated and/or worshipped as if he is God.

If what he practices and teaches is of the bible he is still man.

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