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#7927 May 6, 2014
Save his people
Continuing on who Jesus came to redeem.
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Notice the possessive pronoun.
Now we'll look again at the word / term again:
Let's establish what "WORLD" John 3:16 was really referring too us the children of israel when it says "for God so loved the world."
You'll also see in the following scripture below the term "world" pertains to us / God's chosen people again.
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Here is the definition for confounded:
*confounded - perplexed by many conflicting situations or statements; filled with bewilderment
A Little side-note: This word definitely defines us As a people.
At this point in our people's lives. There need to be a new awakening with them.
And I'm quite sure you realize our people lack the knowledge they're supposed to have.
That's why the scripture say In the book of Hosea:
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
I will expound on the scripture above at a later date.
But let's move on to Who God gave the statue and his judgments to in the first place. More importantly the Commandmentsent. BTW, there are a total of 613 of them.
The Scriptures below will Enlighten us on this truth.
He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.
I'll continue later on I have to sign off now
#7928 May 6, 2014
No one is asking any one to forget anything. But why don't these victims do something like the Catholic Churches victims? Sue the church. Expose it all. Embarrass the church. Yes, black folk are still suffering the effects of slavery but when I do wrong, I don't holla, " I sm like this because of slavety". Here is a recent example, my grandfather was a pastor in Daddy Graces time and had many children outside of his marriage. Papa was a rolling stone. Last year another child was found, who is now over 70 years old. He also drank as well. He was not a good man a lot of times to me. But none of his sons had fathered a child out of marriage but they knew full well what he had done. They followed the rule, "if you know better, do better". I still love my grand daddy but that crap is messed up. And never forget this stuff happens all the time in every place. I remember a Frontline documentary about the lost boys of Afghanistan, where men dress boys up in dress and have sex with them and it is accepted in that culture. Women are still trafficked all around the world, even here in the US. Sin rampamt and not just in the HOP. I'm glad that so many of you are now living sin free lives. I hope that you could tell the rest of us when you were converted and how we might join you one day, since you are cleaned than Daddy Grace and his inablers.#IwannaBePerfectLikeY ou
#7929 May 6, 2014
Here give them this one brother.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
^^^ It's grace not Grace as they commonly misuse in UHOP literature with this scripture. Oh annnnnd did you notice that works can't save you and you can't boast of what you do. I digress though.
*heads to the room to get rid of all my cheesy UHOP jewelry LOL. They could have at least gave us quality gold. That crap is as fake as a European model with full lips. I went to trade in a five gallon bucket of the jewelry and they made a bunch of jokes in Arabic and laughed in my face. I've never been so embarrassed in all my life.#truestory
#7930 May 6, 2014
Lol. Love it. Wow. Fake gold fake models and fake bottles. Lol. Too funny. B
#7931 May 6, 2014
Lorenzo, I'm disappointed that you went on a rant. You usually keep it together. You actually sound like the hop members who cannot articulate an defend themselves.
What is sin? Is it a man made thing? the perfect man is one who knows repentance and acceptance of his responsibility. Job is that perfect man, easily duplicated. You can free yourself, but you choose not to.
Therefore it's not hard and definitely not impossible to be perfect.
Now many has classified Jesus as the perfect man, when that has never been written about him. If I'm not mistaken God only classified Job as perfect. Hmmmm. Why is that?
On another note, Does what your grandfather has done in the past make him a bad man, the answer is only to those whom he has offended and to your family as he is the representative of that family.
Good and bad is in the eye of the beholder who is usually the offended.
I'm not here to judge anyone. But every man facts are their own. And if your facts cast a gloom over your life through eternity, than so be it.
One falsehood will destroy a thousand truths. Can a man be good if he practices bad? No he an only be that In which he practices to be.
#7932 May 6, 2014
I noticed how you selectively read. Define clean and holy. Define sin. Not once did you hear me say I was cleaner than anybody. Not once did you hear me claim to live sin free. Eliminate the sarcasm and our discussions will be more productive. The dude who smokes will excuse himself but say well at least I don't drink. The dude who cheats on his wife will say well at least the women are not under age.
Stop re-directing the discussion because you don't like the content. You're clearly too talented and bright for this double talk. I've not converted to anything. I don't need organized religion to be in tune with the Creator of all. I've said that several times over. The concept of GOD minus the church and Daddy escapes your per view. If your relationship with the Creator is dependent on the UHOP I simply urge you to be mindful that his GOD may not be your GOD.
#7933 May 6, 2014
Whatís with you UHOP members and that word ďifĒ when you refer to God? This is why we say your Gods are your Daddies. The reason you canít defend is how you can not defend a lie. When you come to terms the UHOP was founded on Graces lies, then God wonít be an ďifĒ in your replies.
#7934 May 6, 2014
#7935 May 6, 2014
Your Grandfather followed the practices of Grace, if Grace can do it so can I. A lot of your UHOP Minister is pedophiles. You donít think if the top had practice what they preached your Preachers may not have wanted to do as they see.
The world is full of Pedophiles, what better place for them to hide then in a Church. Is itís because church people are so willing to forgive all your sins and shove them under the rug.
Come on now, none of us are sin free, we are at least trying to do the right things. What does this say about Puffy who knows the lies but continue in them? Should you know itís a sin and continue or not know what a sin is?
#7936 May 6, 2014
I am not selective in my reading but it is impossible to respond to every thing. You can also discuss whatever you want. I ain't ever gonna defend the sins of any man but I also know that I am a cracked vessel. I feel that folk in leadership should be held to higher standards but when they fail, it sometimes reminds us that they are human. My late grandmother once admitted that they, meaning the members of the HOP, thought that Daddy Grace would never die. Now that is a crazy thought to me. I couldn't even comprehend that line of thinking but many felt that way. He did a lot of good for a lot of people is my conclusion. Warts and all, he was an interesting man. I know I am outnumbered but such is life as a black man in America. I still say that just like the churches current situation, if enough folk would just speak up, truth would be revealed and healing could began for those who have been hurting for so long. I may be an outlier but that's what I sincerely hope will happen. Soon. Real soon.
#7937 May 6, 2014
And gee-tee Daddy Bailey probably knows less about Daddy Grace than most of you. His family, I am told, were members, but not really around the HOP a lot. He never refers to his childhood in Newport News because there is no there there to speak of. He only repeats what his bods tells him.
#7938 May 6, 2014
"Likewise the people of the hop needed a figure to represent God so they created Daddy. Because they never knew God and this was their way In showing a relationship with God. The God they knew was the God their slave masters told them about. So the poor post slavery men and women was not going to let their oppressors God be their religion so they made Grace into what he was subconsciously, because they wanted to believe they had a God that was different from their oppressor." Scales Off.
I posted this earlier today. Lorenzo I am guessing you grandmother, given the information you laid out, was born in the early 1920's. If this is the case please try to remember that the people who taught her are post slavery people. 1865 to 1920 is only 65 years old, so her grandmother was probably a slave and she may have taught her her beliefs.
So when this fancy charles came around he became these people savior because they were oppressed and still treated like slaves. So his abilities to cohabit with white folks wowed them.
Hence they made him a god. And they believed he would never die. He used the scriptures against them. Mind you most of these people could not read nor write. So here comes a man telling you God has no power on earth only Daddy? What would you believe with a 1st grade education. The same book the master used to control, charles used to let them know he was in the scripture as cultastic pointed out with Ephesians.
So now these, with no malice at all, ignorant black men and women was able to believe such jargon because they also believed they were meant to be slaves because of the Hebrew laces and the curse of ham in which they preached to fe slaves for control of the slaves.
And if you were in that day you would have believed what your grandmother believed. But today you are not in that day. That is why you should be a better steward over you mind for it is the temple of God.
#7940 May 6, 2014
Lorenzo please donít take this as an attack on you personal. So many people in the UHOP feel the same as you do about Grace. What constitutes being a good person that helped a lot of people?
Do you consider me a good parent that feed and clothed my children, but never gave them an education to continue to survive in life? How would they know they need a job? He gave the people false hope. Very few of UHOP members were prepared to live on this earth. He took away the UHOP members self esteem. He was no better then the Slave Masters that gave us Money after they freed us, but never taught us how to use it. The UHOP members lived for Grace.
How can he claim to be sent by God and he never saw the need to enhance Gods people way of living? Still to this day very little members want a better way of living. Do you really think God gave man all this knowledge to change our way of living for Church to tell you not to embrace it.
You wear the latest clothes, yet you live in swallow. The people are not being taught. You should not live on this earth and never leave your mark. How many Doctors are in the UHOP, yet your members get sick. Shouldnít someone have said lets create a group of Educated People?
Your Church should have been in a position to reach back within its Church for everything you needed. If you are preaching stay away from the world, then there should be nothing you take from the world.
If you can show me one thing Grace did for the people, I will shut up. He didnít even teach who the real God is. Since this Bible was the only thing we had to go on that spoke of God. Donít you think someone should have taught it?
For an UHOP member to even think Grace would not die shows the lack of knowledge that was kept from them and they believed HE was God.
#7941 May 6, 2014
In the UHOP are some of the poorest of poor people in the world, yet you feel it was ok for Grace to own a 85 room Mansion; McCollough to own Apartment Complexes, Madison to own an empty Mansion in New Jersey, and Bailey to own an over Million Dollar car. Where is the God in them?
You justify what they own because they bought them with their own money. Where did they get this money? None of them worked a job that afforded these luxuries. They took money from people already oppressed so that they would not be oppressed and you think that right all because the UHOP gave them this money out of free will. No one makes you give in the UHOP, but you sure have a strange way of making your members feel if they donít do these things Hell will surely be their plight.
Should your leaders be rewarded with worldly things for doing Gods work? You spoke of scarifies, what are they scarifying for the people they are leading. How you can keep defending something that Common Sense tells you is wrong is beyond me.
#7942 May 7, 2014
"He did a lot of good for a lot of people is my conclusion."
Walk with me brother.^^^^ So did Frank Lucas and he was one of the biggest heroin dealers in NYC in the 60s and 70s. However, at what expense? How many babies were born addicted to the stuff? How many deaths did the drug cause? There's one major difference though. He got to a point where he regretted his actions because of the collateral damage to his fellow man. You can not and will not deal with what is currently going on because you can't deal with what "Daddy" has and is still doing. Don't y'all still say: "Daddy then, Daddy now." It's no change. Since the inception of the UHOP the religious smoke and mirrors has been going strong.
Walk with me again. I swindle, I mean convince you to give me $50.00 for GOD's purpose by using my religion and dogmas. Then I turn around and give you a $3.00 ham sammich when you're hungry with no money in your pocket. Simply because you were hungry you will give me credit for being good to you. All the while you never think about what I'm doing with the other $47.00. You do know that's what pimps do with their prostitutes right? It's the same mentality my brother. I've explained it using several analogies. A con-game is a con-game; whether it's religion, politics, or in the street hustle. Your politicians say: "In GOD we trust". GOD says don't kill, yet they justify murder in war. Well you and I both know how much money is in war. Thus they change the rules for their own benefit. Your Daddy does/did the same thing. Organized religion is a business and they change the rules to suit the emotions of the consumer. You can love your Daddy(s) all you want but they don't think any different than the people who justify murder in the name of protecting the people.
FTR it's only impossible to respond to everything because you don't really have the answers. You just have not accepted that you do not know. You only respond within your comfort zone. I can work with that. However, when/if you do not know just say so. You just might learn. I darn sure thirst for knowledge from you or anyone else
#7943 May 7, 2014
Although I find most of your post interesting, know that I am comfortable with any subject. I am far from being a dumb fool. Using your logic about the fifty dollars, everybody in religion and business is swindling every one else. We pay $50+ for internet access but the provider has an 80% profit margin. Apple has billions in profits, overseas, to escape US taxes, like many corporations. Recently someone stole the cash donations from Lakewood Church in Houston, and the receipts for 2 days was $600.000. That does not include the offerings given online, or mailed. Are they swindling folk as well? What about the lunch you eat. The price you pay is out of proportion to what they pay their employes (peanuts) and benefits they give them (virtually none). How about the swindle of ALL sports teams who force communities to give them millions of tax payers dollars to supposedly spur economic development, that very rarely seem to happen. As I travel I am amazed at the taxes of 18%+ on rental cars (Seattle, Phoenix) or 15 %+ on hotels (Orlando, Las Vegas). There is a con every where. I once had an appraisal on my home and paid the appraiser $400. The financing fell through. I got another lender to do the deal but when I tried to use my previous appraisal, less than a week old, I was told that under Florida law, the appraisal did not belong to me and I would have to pay another $400. WTF.
My point is if the HOP is a con, why not rant about all the other cons in life. I get it that you don't believe in organized religion. That's your right. But you don't have to be do judge mental to those of us who believe in whatever we believe. You said that you never used the word Judge but you are judging Daddy Grace and the HOP. Example, if I came up to you and said why did you wear that ugly shirt today? I didn't say judge but I was being judgmental.
You know that whatever you believe most HOP members do not believe that. But I also know that my beliefs many times conflict with what most HOP members believe as well. We just are at two opposite ends of the spectrum. Have you noticed his someone will come on here and get defense about the HOP, you all beat them up with a few scriptures, and bam, they are gone. Sometimes you guys beat them down. And they deserve that because they post in there emotion and ego. I'll say it again, I am not a prophet but my words will be more prophetic than yours. Keep living.
#7944 May 7, 2014
Brother @Lorenzo if you notice I rarely post scripture. I also try to use secular or non-religious points of reference to prove my point. We continue to avoid the point. I've acknowledged that the UHOP is not the only organization taking our money under false pretense including but not limited to the Government. However, just because others are doing it doesn't make it acceptable; definitely not from the one place that should be the exception to the social norm. On one hand you and your UHOP sisters and brothers say the leadership doesn't "steal". Then once it's proven that they do you turn around and whip out the "don't judge us everybody else is doing it" card. Leads me conclude that you know full well what's going on but you just want people like me to shut up about your church.
This blog is specific to the UHOP however, if you'd like to discuss other cons we can do so as well. Refer to me noting that the US currency was created by atheist Jews; also refer to @Scales_Off's Amazing Grace post. You have to first acknowledge that the UHOP is a con comparable to all of the other ones you listed.
Ray Rice is not that tall for a professional football player he's only 5'8" << Is that judging? Daddy Grace had sex with underage girls and frequently spent months in Cuba without the members' knowledge of his whereabouts << Is that judging? I never said anything about where he is in the afterlife. I have no clue nor do I care. I simply stated a fact. I didn't state my opinions about him and his behaviors. Now I could but that would be a separate discussion.
You can believe that the UHOP is the right place of worship for you. However, that does not mean that the Bishop wasn't a pedophile or that the Bishop didn't misuse the money. You can believe that the UHOP is in the bible (even though it's not) that doesn't mean that I should not debate scripture with you. Most members quickly leave the board because they can't defend what they believe. They don't even know what's written in their own by-laws. Notice how everyone shied away from the UHOP literature I posted that contradicted the bible.
To prophecy means to speak before man from divine revelation. You're words are no more prophetic than mine and neither is your Daddy's.
#7945 May 7, 2014
FYI I never have said or implied that it's ok just because someone else is doing it. My point was there are many more important cons that all of us could and should be ranting about. I agree that a higher standard should be found in all religious institutions but folk get away with so much they have no fear of God. Romans 6 said the wages of sin are death but if wages were paid on the spot sin would end. Can you imagine someone lying on the sidewalk dead and you ask what happened? And someone said he just lied and died. Folk would stop lying.
You repeated rants about leadership stealing is a tough one for mr. I know that money has been stolen but I do not know if they are stealing right now. It would not shock me if it was so, I just don't know. I feel like the HOP has been taken over in a bloodless coup. And although the current leader did not scheme this stuff up, he has failed to call out even one of these imps.
#7946 May 7, 2014
Brother @Lorenzo I think we agree more than you know. I do believe there are more important cons that we as black people need to address beyond the obvious such as the church. In contrast I do feel that organized religion including the UHOP is a major part of the regression of our people.
I have made reference to your leadership and theft because the organization hangs it's hat on Isaiah 56. So I say let the entire chapter apply to the organization and it's leadership. In my personal opinion they are not stealing. They don't have to because the members are giving it to them and blindly trusting that the "up building of the kingdom" is what it's being used for. Any deceptive leader understands this concept. Tell them a little bit of truth and a lot of lies. In theory they do use a portion of the money for the buildings and things you know of. However, you have no clue how the bulk of the monies are appropriated and you never will. The only conclusion is that there is something to hide. I may not be able to prove beyond doubt but you are intellectual enough to know that the numbers don't add up.
Last visit to DC Bishop collected Daddy's Club money from over 100 members. That's roughly $200,000 from GWH alone. That doesn't include the other churches. Brother Bailey can't correct the imps because they hired him. Thus by default he too is an imp.
#7947 May 8, 2014
Bravo my brother. Bravo. The wrong cannot correct the wrong. That remains so with council as well. All you have to do is [email protected] Lorenzo I believe deep in your core you don't really believe in the hop, but you really want to. And so you continue to defend but run into road blocks because you can't defend a lie. But all in all valiant effort.
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