The disgrace of papal blessing for Ugandan homophobia | Jill Filipovic

Dec 30, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Guardian

Pope Benedict XVI sending his first tweet. The Vatican has also hired a former Fox News executive to overhaul its communications.

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“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Since: Sep 08

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#131
Jan 13, 2013
 
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
The RCC has definitely institutionalized it's historic mysogyny, and continues to propagate those bronze age views today.
These religions continually try to smooth over their documents containing pure misogyny. They try to soften and make it more appealing. But I continually ask why they originated the way they did to begin with? Why were/are women held in such low esteem?
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#132
Jan 13, 2013
 

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Morgana 9 wrote:
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Everything I stated is a fact, not based on opinion. Try to smooth it over. Have at it.
You didn't state any facts. You stated your opinion.

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#133
Jan 13, 2013
 
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
These religions continually try to smooth over their documents containing pure misogyny. They try to soften and make it more appealing. But I continually ask why they originated the way they did to begin with? Why were/are women held in such low esteem?
You have to go waay back into history. It wasn't always so, in all places.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#134
Jan 13, 2013
 

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Morgana 9 wrote:
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Sorry Dan....I went to catholic school...remember? Church every morning prior to being taught anything. I know what we were told, and we were told that the veil was for shame and the sin of Eve and thus if you were a woman/girl you covered your head in the presence of the almighty male god.
Here are some references:
"Before the Second Vatican Council, the wearing of chapel veils was required for a woman when attending Mass, as a symbol of her modesty and humility before God. Although this practice is no longer required, it is still very much supported and encouraged by the Church as a sign of reverence and piety while in the presence of God".
http://www.catholiccompany.com/content/The-Tr...
Humility:
The word humility signifies lowliness or submissiveness an it is derived from the Latin humilitas or, as St. Thomas says, from humus, i.e. the earth which is beneath us. As applied to persons and things it means that which is abject, ignoble, or of poor condition, as we ordinarily say, not worth much. "
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07543b.htm
1 Corinthians 11:1-17:
Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you. But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered disgraceth his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head not covered disgraceth her head: for it is all one as if she were shaven. For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn. But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or made bald, let her cover her head. The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man [c.f. Genesis 2-3]. For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man. Therefore ought the woman to have a power over her head, because of the angels. But yet neither is the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, so also is the man by the woman: but all things of God. You yourselves judge. Doth it become a woman to pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you that a man indeed, if he nourish his hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman nourish her hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor the Church of God [i.e., if anyone want to complain about this, we have no other way of doing things, this is our practice; all the churches believe the same way]. Now this I ordain: not praising you, that you come together, not for the better, but for the worse.
http://www.fisheaters.com/theveil.html
The CC is quite good at riding women and doing their best to control them...more than any other thing they do. they literally dwell on it.
You weren't taught that. The shame routine.

It was a sign of humility (this is a bad thing? Humility is for men also) and a holdover from Jewish custom. That's all.

Reliably, you make it into something it wasn't.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#135
Jan 13, 2013
 

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Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
These religions continually try to smooth over their documents containing pure misogyny. They try to soften and make it more appealing. But I continually ask why they originated the way they did to begin with? Why were/are women held in such low esteem?
They aren't in the RCC. Maybe Islam.

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#136
Jan 13, 2013
 
"humility" means knowing precisely what and who you are ... not more ... not less.

"humiliation" is when others blow holes in your headtrip about yourself.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

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#137
Jan 13, 2013
 
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry Dan....I went to catholic school...remember? Church every morning prior to being taught anything. I know what we were told, and we were told that the veil was for shame and the sin of Eve and thus if you were a woman/girl you covered your head in the presence of the almighty male god.
Here are some references:
"Before the Second Vatican Council, the wearing of chapel veils was required for a woman when attending Mass, as a symbol of her modesty and humility before God. Although this practice is no longer required, it is still very much supported and encouraged by the Church as a sign of reverence and piety while in the presence of God".
http://www.catholiccompany.com/content/The-Tr...
Humility:
The word humility signifies lowliness or submissiveness an it is derived from the Latin humilitas or, as St. Thomas says, from humus, i.e. the earth which is beneath us. As applied to persons and things it means that which is abject, ignoble, or of poor condition, as we ordinarily say, not worth much. "
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07543b.htm
1 Corinthians 11:1-17:
Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you. But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered disgraceth his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head not covered disgraceth her head: for it is all one as if she were shaven. For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn. But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or made bald, let her cover her head. The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man [c.f. Genesis 2-3]. For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man. Therefore ought the woman to have a power over her head, because of the angels. But yet neither is the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, so also is the man by the woman: but all things of God. You yourselves judge. Doth it become a woman to pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you that a man indeed, if he nourish his hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman nourish her hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor the Church of God [i.e., if anyone want to complain about this, we have no other way of doing things, this is our practice; all the churches believe the same way]. Now this I ordain: not praising you, that you come together, not for the better, but for the worse.
http://www.fisheaters.com/theveil.html
The CC is quite good at riding women and doing their best to control them...more than any other thing they do. they literally dwell on it.
morgana 9, I went to public school but also had catechism (CCD now). A priest once told me that a woman was never allowed on the altar and it never occurred to me to ask why not. Now they're allowed - I wonder why that changed?

Since: May 12

Bellevue, WA

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#138
Jan 13, 2013
 
Sherlayne wrote:
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I like you - so please don't post stuff like that; it's illegal.
Personally, I don't know how this Nazi idiot got elected in the first place, but I can't say I wish he'd croak. Actually, it was publicized why he got elected - the Vatican didn't want change, and I don't think Ratzi knows how to change his own underwear.
Don't get yourself in trouble over this dolt - he'll let the rapist priests get off, but he's not gonna risk his azz. And HE claims the church is being persecuted like never before! Not a thought for the raped children.
Have a pleasant evening :)
i don't care if its illegal or not sweetie... the man is a scumbag

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

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#139
Jan 13, 2013
 
Lililth_Satans_Bore wrote:
<quoted text>i don't care if its illegal or not sweetie... the man is a scumbag
LOL! Good one :)

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

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#140
Jan 14, 2013
 
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
morgana 9, I went to public school but also had catechism (CCD now). A priest once told me that a woman was never allowed on the altar and it never occurred to me to ask why not. Now they're allowed - I wonder why that changed?
Yes, I remember women/girls were not allowed on the alter and as I said I was taught that the chapel veil was to cover your head for shame. I know things changed in the 70's when women in record numbers stopped going to their church. I believe that got their attention and I imagine they lost money.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#141
Jan 14, 2013
 
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
morgana 9, I went to public school but also had catechism (CCD now). A priest once told me that a woman was never allowed on the altar and it never occurred to me to ask why not. Now they're allowed - I wonder why that changed?
No one but the priest and acolytes were allowed on the altar for many years.

Now, lay ministers of communion, lectors, cantor and acolytes can be up there and women can and do perform all all those tasks.

Women can't be priests; other than that, they can do anything a man does within the RCC.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

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#142
Jan 14, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
You weren't taught that. The shame routine.
It was a sign of humility (this is a bad thing? Humility is for men also) and a holdover from Jewish custom. That's all.
Reliably, you make it into something it wasn't.
Yes Dan, I was taught that.

The CC is a good ole boys institution. Make all the excuses you want, but the fact remains, women are NOT allowed in its governance. They are to be ruled and governed by men. Bottom line.
Dan

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#143
Jan 14, 2013
 
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes Dan, I was taught that.
The CC is a good ole boys institution. Make all the excuses you want, but the fact remains, women are NOT allowed in its governance. They are to be ruled and governed by men. Bottom line.
I seriously doubt you were taught that, but admitting same would blow your story. I get it. Gotta keep the "I was oppressed" thing going.

Women have as much a role in "governance" as I do. Bottom line.

Women fill every role available in lay governance.

Even a female protestant bishop would tell you that the objective of the clerical state isn't a job title. It's not the corporate world, Morgana.

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#144
Jan 14, 2013
 
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I remember women/girls were not allowed on the alter and as I said I was taught that the chapel veil was to cover your head for shame. I know things changed in the 70's when women in record numbers stopped going to their church. I believe that got their attention and I imagine they lost money.
Not "shame" dear, but so as "not to tempt the angels". It a Sauline thing, so it doesn't actually matter.

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#145
Jan 14, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
No one but the priest and acolytes were allowed on the altar for many years.
Now, lay ministers of communion, lectors, cantor and acolytes can be up there and women can and do perform all all those tasks.
Women can't be priests; other than that, they can do anything a man does within the RCC.
Ratzinger and his anti-Vat II, Tridentine followers want most of that repealed.
Dan

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#146
Jan 14, 2013
 
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Ratzinger and his anti-Vat II, Tridentine followers want most of that repealed.
Love to see a citation.

Wasn't aware there was an appeal effort afoot.

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#147
Jan 14, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I seriously doubt you were taught that, but admitting same would blow your story. I get it. Gotta keep the "I was oppressed" thing going.
Women have as much a role in "governance" as I do. Bottom line.
Women fill every role available in lay governance.
Even a female protestant bishop would tell you that the objective of the clerical state isn't a job title. It's not the corporate world, Morgana.
It's POWER, in a Dominionist, Church Militant sense.
Dan

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#148
Jan 14, 2013
 
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
It's POWER, in a Dominionist, Church Militant sense.
I don't think so here.

Were that so, snyper, any gender issue would be irrelevant.

I think Morgana bemoans the lack of "power" she thinks is conferred by a clerical office.
Tondaleyo lives

Falls City, NE

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#149
Jan 14, 2013
 
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything I stated is a fact, not based on opinion. Try to smooth it over. Have at it.
Well its a fact your nuts.
Tondaleyo lives

Falls City, NE

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#150
Jan 14, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
No one but the priest and acolytes were allowed on the altar for many years.
Now, lay ministers of communion, lectors, cantor and acolytes can be up there and women can and do perform all all those tasks.
Women can't be priests; other than that, they can do anything a man does within the RCC.
Ummm,only the Eucharistic ministers, they do a great service , the priests cannot make it to all the home bound anymore, not enough priests, you forgot the Deacons. You need to move to the Lincoln Diocese!

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