Dr Zakir Naik invites Pope Benedict XVI for open interfaith dia...

Full story: Paktribune.com

Friday September 29, 2006 JEDDAH: Eminent scholar of comparative religion Dr. Zakir Naik has invited Pope Benedict XVI for an open inter-faith dialogue.
Comments
14,321 - 14,340 of 14,381 Comments Last updated Jul 6, 2013

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15720
Jan 8, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
Third, Islam does not manipulate people, on the contrary, if you read the quran, one is not asked to believe in God blindly without proof.Believe it or not. One is asked to first think, search. One is asked to first open his mind and think carefully and research before even believing in God! Surprised, right?:-)
Not surprised at all, religions have this interesting paradox of claiming to allow freedom of religion…and then fill their religious books with threats of extreme violence and torture if the person decides the religious book is wrong. The koran is even worse, thanks to that “mischief”: apostasy is already enough to be considered spreading mischief according to quite a few muslim schcolars!
Ahmed wrote:
Further more. Quran states that if you have proof that any other system in life is better than quran then prove it, and accept it.
Now here comes the the thing about proof! I wouldn't mind accepting Christianity, you know what?
I wouldn't mind accepting Atheism! YES, I would accept it. But please I have 2 conditions.
1-If you can prove to me by all means that you can that God does not exist, that these creations around us have been created without a creator. Believe me I will be the first one not only to accept Atheism, I will also reject any faith in this life.
Oh dear, the “prove a negative!” Sorry, dude, but that cannot be done. And if you think you can, provide me with direct “proof” the tooth fairy does not exist, nor Zeus, nor Wodan, nor Quetzalcotl, or any of the millions of mythical creatures found in various myths, sagas, and religious scriptures/stories. But since that might take you some time, just start with the tooth fairy.
Note, I expect you to completely ignore this request, because deep down you known you just asked me something really silly that only works with the mentally weak.
Ahmed wrote:
2-If I prove to you by science, logic or any other means that God exists and that Islam makes sense will you accept Islam?
You see, that's the problem, I am open to any argument about proving the existence or non existence of God.
You are probably not, you know, once a college of mine who is an Atheist saw me doing salat, prayer, and he started laughing at me, I wasn't offended at all, we are very good friends, and he started telling me come on Ahmed, why all the fuss and all these restrictions, why believing in something you do not see?
I told him, there are a lot of things in life that have been PROVEN to exist with being seen!
However, I only asked him 2 questions!
I believe in God because there are several scientific proofs of his existence mentioned in the quran (remember quran is not a book of science)
Well, go ahead, show me your scientific “proof”. Do note that I am a working scientist, and know what science demands as “proof”(but I’ll allow you the inappropriate use of the word “proof”– science in reality does not prove anything, it disproves things and points to hypotheses with the strongest predictive power).

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15721
Jan 8, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
According t the quran (again more than 1400 years ago) the river water does not mix with the sea water, further more there is a barrier between them! Yet in recent days according to researches. when river water meets the salty sea water they do not mix they go back to their own waters and at the point where they meet there is a barries of water that is less salty than the sea water and not fresh as the river water, which does not allow these waters to mix!
Man, you wanna tell me that a Man living in the desert 1400 years ago, made this claim when at these days science was very poor!
Oh dear, this faulty argumentation again. Sigh. For the hundredth time, if not thousandth time, science at the time may have been different from now, but sailors and 'scientists' at the time were very well aware of this "barrier". Estuaries were everywhere, and no one spending a few years around them would fail to notice the apparent failure of salt and fresh water to mix.

Note the word "apparent". You see, the two can definitely mix (and thus contradict there is a forbidden barrier!), but need stirring to speed that mixing up.

And if you call Mohammed an illiterate (which is questionable interpretation of the koran - a much more likely interpretation just indicates he wasn't jew or christian), do remember that he worked closely with various merchants, many of which will have travelled the rivers and oceans and thus would have known.

Sorry, but you just made a fool of yourself by claiming people didn't know of the apparent poor mixing of fresh and salt water (extremely unlikely), and you actually showed the koran is wrong by claiming there is a forbidden partition. The koran claims it isn't wrong on anything, so you now either must admit you muslims don't understand the koran, or the koran *is* wrong.

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15722
Jan 8, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
The video of 2 rivers meeting and dont mix (A trip from Manaus Brazil on the Rio Negro River to meet with the Amazonas forming the Amazon River) the video has been shot by a non-muslim from Brazil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =2DSvrFZ0aKsXX
If you wanna see the main thing go to the 11th minute.
You are aware that here the difference is warm vs cold, not salt vs fresh?

Muslim logic: use a non-relevant example to show you are ignorant.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15723
Jan 8, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
Man look at the second video and listen carefully! The guy said it clearly that the rivers do not mix and he mentioned the reasons as well :-)
And also look carefully and the point where they meet one river has a color, the other one has a different one and you can see the border between the 2 :-)
You are trying hard, but not hard enough :-)
I will give another sign of God's existence that until now NO scientist could ever explain!:-)
You're the one who needs to review the video because he clearly states that he streams do eventually mix after 12 miles.
Ahmed

Hungary

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15724
Jan 8, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

To: Marco: By the way, I am not a scientist nor a scholar!

It is true that death penalty is applied to those who commits adultery (not fornication) adultery: is when a person cheats his/her spouse. However, you forget to mention that the adulterer has be witnessed by 4 persons (honest person) and when witnessed these 4 persons must see the adulterer in action! meaning that see the penis penetrating the vagina! also with the case of gays (not lesbians) scholars had different fatwa on it. However, the majority agreed on the death penalty if also the gay is witnessed by 4 persons (the same case with the adultery).

About the term mischief it is called in Arabic fasad meaning corruption, people who spread corruption are sentenced to death. We know that corruption can lead to conflicts even major wars that take the lives of innocents!

By the way about manipulation, I want you to watch that video, you will hear that a verse in the Koran is stating to slay the unbelievers wherever you find them! Chapter 5, verse 9

This is very harsh! you know Islam is promoting the killing of unbelievers!

Interesting when a popular Christian who is aware of the Koran mentions this verse without mentioning the whole context!

The Koran is a book where you find stories of nations and incidents that happened long before Mohammad (PBOH) and during his days as well. This verse in the chapter is also part of an event that took place during Mohammad (PBOH). Anyways I will not speak more about it. If you want to understand how people can manipulate others, just look into the chapter and read the verses before verse 5 and the once after it and look for the interpretation of it and tell me what you think of it.

Wow :-) when I watched that video I was terrified myself :-) I didn't know that the muslim nation is a very brutal and dangerous nation :-) Thank God! I left them and came to Hungary :-) All tourists around the world should not even go to Egypt, Egypt has a population of 80 million people with a 70 million Muslim terrorist and 10 million Christians. I really feel sorry for the Christians in Egypt! They have been living in Egypt along their Muslim brothers for ages and not thinking of leaving Egypt :-)

Egypt is one of the most religious countries in the world!

Don't get me wrong! black sheep are found every where regardless of any religion!

About the rest of your comments. Especially of the fresh and salt water mixing (rivers and seas). Look after it and surf the internet and check the non-Muslim scientists research.

You can call me an ignorant :-)

I do not have any problem with homosexuals, especially gays! However, for someone stating that it is a normal thing for the penis to enter the anus and that it is not normal to have a creator who is not created by another creator is a little bit odd to me :-)

As scientist you should know that the muscles around the anus and their function are different from those around the vagina.

I am not saying I do not like gays. My best friend loves drinking beer like crazy, yet I do not consider him a sinner just because it is forbidden in Islam! He is non-Muslim that's why he isn't a sinner by drinking beer!

For me to drink is a sin, because of my faith! it is as simple as that! If Islam allowed me to drink and consume intoxicants, without a second thought I would do it :-)

That's the point! No wonder, Hungarians who I meet love me when they get to know me better!

I do not force my traditions or habits on anyone else!

My fiance is a non-Muslim and I do buy her drinks sometimes.(I know that it is not allowed for me as a Muslim to even purchase alcohol).

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15725
Jan 8, 2013
 
An aerial picture of where the Amazon and Rio Negro meet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Meeting_of_...
Note the underwater turbulence that's already starting to mix them together.
Ahmed

Veresegyház, Hungary

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15726
Jan 8, 2013
 
To Igor Trip:

You wrote:

Bad logic.

If the universe needs a creator then the creator needs a creator.
If the creator doesn't need a creator then why should the universe?
Your creator is a something not a nothing. As such his existence needs an explanation just like the universe does.

The creator does not need a creator because the creator may not and can not have a creator. It is an impossibility !

For example, If the universe was created by a creator1, then creator1 has been created by creator2, then the C2 by C3 going backwards into infinity, at the end the universe itself would not be created!

For instance if we sit in a hall a large hall that has an infinite numbers of people, and I ask the first one to take the pen and pass the it to the second, the first one will tell me ok but then the first one will need to ask the permission of the second one to take the pen and pass it to the third one and so on, at the end the pen will never be passed to anyone, it will remain with me.

Hope u understand the logic in this (although I know you will still cook something for me :-))

OK, there is no creator! then explain the existence of the universe!

Atheism is based on scientific truth. However, when it comes to the creation of the universe there are only 3 possible theories Atheists can provide:

1.Universe has been there for infinity (where is logic and science in this?)

2.Universe created itself (again logic and science?)

3.Universe came into being from nothing (logic and science?)

let's Analise one by one:

1.Scientists have proven that universe has a beginning(big bang thing and evolution, etc (the universe is 14 billion years old) and that it is even expanding and expanding as galaxies are getting far away from each other.

Logically, you can not have a creation that has an infinite background (have you known any creature that does not have a start?)

2.Universe created itself. Hmm, can a mother or any living thing or even any existing thing create itself?:-)

Can a laptop creat itself ?:-)

3.Universe has been created out of nothing. Again, Hm.

Name me anything that can be created or produced out of nothing! It is like bring an empty box, put it somewhere, leave for maybe a couple years, then open it and find a PC in it :-)

Where is science and logic?

The only simple logical and scientific explanation is that universe has been created by a creator (not a creation), a creator who is one and the only one and unique, who is eternal, has not beget nor has been begotten, and there is nothing like into him.

This is the meaning of God. Would you please tell me what is bad logic and unscientific in that?

Before I forget about the sign I promised, check this out: http://www.ezsoftech.com/giknowledge/firaun.m...

It is about the mummy of the Pharaoh.
Ahmed

Hungary

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15727
Jan 9, 2013
 
To Marco:

You say:

Oh dear, this faulty argumentation again. Sigh. For the hundredth time, if not thousandth time, science at the time may have been different from now, but sailors and 'scientists' at the time were very well aware of this "barrier". Estuaries were everywhere, and no one spending a few years around them would fail to notice the apparent failure of salt and fresh water to mix.

Hm, intesresting! If sailors has the knowledge of the the "Barrier" thing then why didn't people of the time of Mohammad (PBOH) rediculed him stating that? why didn't the masses of non-muslim arabs at that time and even the romans and educated and scientists living at that period say that this calim of Mohammad (PBOH) is a lie?!

Please do me a favor! when you read history books, try to read books of historians who live or lived in that region and stop reading books authored by people who never lived in over there!:-)

You can read books about how Hungarians live, and about their own life style. However, you will not stand a chance to argue the real life style of this nation because I live here and I got to know all classes of people in this country.

The book will probably offer infiormation that is maybe true or not about Hungarians. However, when you come over here and see the way they live, you will notice that reality will confirm whether that book is true or not!

I am a realistic person. I look at how people live, not by only reading books about them but also by living among them, interact and see how they think!:-)

again if you want to get to know something in life you have to learn and search deep into it!

You cannot just rely on theories!

You will still call me an ignorant, as any other atheist.

If you are a scientist and have a very well knowledge then why don't know call Dr Zakir for a debate?!

Dr Zakir is open for anyone calling him for a dialoge, you can even specify the place and time and he will be more than happy to even take care of all the expences!

Ask him for a debate!

It is strange that lots of you atheists have never called this man for a debate!

Don't be surprised if the Pope does not accept the debate with Dr Zakir!

I am sure you heard of Ahmad Deedat, he also called the previous Pope for a debate and guess what! The Pope did not accept!

I wonder why?

You see you as a scientist can argue with me (a simple person) and even always call me an ignorant!

I am not prepared for any argument and yet, I see that you do not have enough knoledge of Islam and the Qoran!

Why don't you ignore arguming with me and ask someone who has more knowlede like Dr Zakir to argue with?

I bet you won't! and I know why!:-)
Ahmed

Hungary

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15728
Jan 9, 2013
 
To Marco:

You say:

Oh dear, the “prove a negative!” Sorry, dude, but that cannot be done. And if you think you can, provide me with direct “proof” the tooth fairy does not exist, nor Zeus, nor Wodan, nor Quetzalcotl, or any of the millions of mythical creatures found in various myths, sagas, and religious scriptures/stories. But since that might take you some time, just start with the tooth fairy.
Note, I expect you to completely ignore this request, because deep down you known you just asked me something really silly that only works with the mentally weak.

I say: You atheists were the first to deny the existence of God, then prove it!!

You ask us muslims for a proof of any of our claims, I ask you to prove your claim of non-existence of God.

Stating that mentally weak people ask that is only your own personal view that even a lot of athiests wouldn't agree with.

Your problem with the idea of God's existence is a personal one.

You see over all the emails I have been sending, I was also curious about how atheists in the west react, and guess what!

You got very angry, upset, arogant and used an abusive language with me.

Imagine if I show this argument to a scientist in Hungary! What do u think he will say about you, especially that you are a scientist?

By the way I showed our argument to some of my colleges I know who are also atheists as you are and even used to argue with me, but yet they were serprised when they saw the abusive language you have used and how upset you got, as if it is a personal conflict between 2 people.

It seems that my guess was right about arguing with atheists from the west (especially the US):-)

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15729
Jan 9, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
The creator does not need a creator because the creator may not and can not have a creator. It is an impossibility !
You have failed to give any explanation of how your creator can just exist without explanation.
All you have is the presumption that he does.
Ahmed wrote:

OK, there is no creator! then explain the existence of the universe!
Atheism is based on scientific truth. However, when it comes to the creation of the universe there are only 3 possible theories Atheists can provide:
1.Universe has been there for infinity (where is logic and science in this?)
2.Universe created itself (again logic and science?)
3.Universe came into being from nothing (logic and science?)
We know the universe exists so there must be some way it can come to exist.
As yet scientists don't know how it happened but considering just how little we knew just two hundred years ago and how much more we'll know in two hundred years time, there's a good chance they will explain it.
Ahmed wrote:
The only simple logical and scientific explanation is that universe has been created by a creator (not a creation), a creator who is one and the only one and unique, who is eternal, has not beget nor has been begotten, and there is nothing like into him.
This is the meaning of God. Would you please tell me what is bad logic and unscientific in that?
It's bad logic because you have failed to explain how any such God could just exist without cause.
If a God can just exist without cause then why not the universe?

A God is not nothing, he's a something and needs explaining.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15730
Jan 9, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
Before I forget about the sign I promised, check this out: http://www.ezsoftech.com/giknowledge/firaun.m...
It is about the mummy of the Pharaoh.
The article is gibberish.

No Pharaoh is recorded to have died by drowning.
Ramesses II died aged 90 and was crippled with arthritis so there's no way he could have chased Moses in a chariot. He may have been killed by an abscess in his teeth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_II#Deat...
Ahmed

Hungary

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15731
Jan 9, 2013
 
To Igor:

You say:

You have failed to give any explanation of how your creator can just exist without explanation.
All you have is the presumption that he does.

It is a presumption but it makes sense.

The 3 points I gave about Atheists explanation of the universe is a presumption as well but it does not make any sense :-)

I did not fail to explain the God's cause, simply because no one knows how and what he is made of!

And the question of the cause of God belongs to God himself, not to me or anyone!

So the question of the God's cause should be addressed to God himself :-)

This is logical, because when someone is doing something mysterious that no one else can understand, you will not go asking anyone about that mysterious behavior of that person, instead what makes sense is to ask the concerned one himself!

In the case of God it is an impossibility to figure out the cause of him!! and if you think about, as his own creation and servants we do not have the right to even question him.

Again logical! If you have a boss at work whose very strong and determined and treating you well (this kind of a boss is rare nowadays:-)), he will give instructions on how to do a certain task and what exactly to do, and he will also give you all the tools to do it. However, he will also put some restrictions and explain to you why (remember the restriction thing)! he will also pay you for it generously and will explain everything so you can easily do the task.

After all this, when you start doing this job, you get to like it, and feel good about it, and of course the overall outcome is very positive and satisfactory to you and even your relationship gets stronger to your boss and the more you give into your job the more he is satisfied and even reward you. Will you ever question the boss about his own personal or private life?

Of course not! Instead, you will praise him and thank him for everything he did for you, you will even assist him and even defend him when needed and stand by him at all times.

What I am getting at is that Islam is the same in that sense!

Think about it this way, God is our boss. However, God does not want you to work for him to benefit him, remember God does not want anything from you, other than obey him sincerely, but in a loving way, and obeying him means that you live your life on his terms! I know it is hard to do that, because this means that you will not be able to go to discos, get drunk, date as many women as you wish. But think about it, God does not want you to harm your self, you see these are the restrictions, I am talking about!

Science today have proved that changing partner increases the risk of prostate cancer in men, see, I am not talking about sexual transmitted diseases because a lot will say (use protection), still also psychological problems can come up, you know always breaking up, getting heart break a lot of times, feeling unsecured and loosing even self esteem because of rejection. The solution is simple, get married! When you get married, your life becomes more stable, healthier, and even your immunity gets stronger, besides, marriage also gives the feeling of security.

About alcohol, you know it feels good to drink, but thin it is very bad to the health, I guess I don't have to list these health risks.

However, I know and by the way Islam does not deny the benefits of alcohol, on the contrary Quran speaks about intoxicants (that is alcohol, narcotics and anything that makes you get intoxicated) that they have lots of benefits, yet there harmful side effects are much more like maybe 1:10000.

You see one cup of wine is healthy. However, Human cannot control its own desire, one cup of wine will make you feel good, the first day, second maybe third then after that, you won't feel its effect, you will need to have 2 cups and here the problem starts with the health!
Ahmed

Hungary

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15732
Jan 9, 2013
 
To Igor:

About swine, that is forbidden in Islam, science have proved that pork has a lot of worms in it (tape worm). Yet if you cook it it will die, but its eggs do not die even when cooked, only if you literally burn it!

Another thing about swine is that it eats anything, it is a scavenger, it even eats stool and enjoys it!

Anyways, other meat (only cattle) is allowed to be consumed!

These are only a few examples, if you look at and read about Islam, you will see that it teaches you how to live a good, stable,healthy and peaceful life.

Even, if you do not believe in God, yet if you implement the Islamic way of life, you will still see positive results and major changes in your life :-)

It is simple to prove that, check the Islamic rules, test it and see for yourself (testable evidence)!

You say:

We know the universe exists so there must be some way it can come to exist.
As yet scientists don't know how it happened but considering just how little we knew just two hundred years ago and how much more we'll know in two hundred years time, there's a good chance they will explain it.

So still the existence of the universe is not explained by science, until now!

So until now only the 3 points scientists can rely on that I mentioned. However, these points do not make any sense all logic.

You know that scientists presumed that Human comes from animal origin, yet a few years ago, science proved that Humans do not originate from animal and that it is a unique creature of its own.

That is what exactly the Koran tells us about human being (1400 years ago)

In two hundred years time, science can also prove the very existence of God. As I stated before, scientists agreed on a super intelligence behind the existence of the universe :-)

But anyways if you look at science now, you will see that it all ready proved all the positive outcome of the Islamic rules! Without believing in God!

You see 1000 years ago a lot of people did not have good resources for a good living,yet Muslims lived a very stable life by implementing the Islamic way of life,without the need of any machines or computers.Islamic way of life can be implemented anywhere and at any period of time :-)
Ahmed

Hungary

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15733
Jan 9, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

The article is gibberish.

No Pharaoh is recorded to have died by drowning.
Ramesses II died aged 90 and was crippled with arthritis so there's no way he could have chased Moses in a chariot. He may have been killed by an abscess in his teeth.

The article is not gibberish.

It is a fact and reality that this pharaoh's body has been preserved for over thousands of years and its organs are still there (the body is not mummified)

You can check it yoursef if you go to Egypt! Egyptian Muslim scientists were not surprised about it, since they have alreadyknew about it from the Koran :-)

And besides Koran does not mention that it Ramses 2 or 3 or whoever it is. Koran mentions that it is the Pharaoh who chased Moses (PBOH) and the suns of Israel :-)

So the mentioned Ramses is still a presumption of Egyptologists (it is hard to specify which Ramses or even the exact time because this has happened long time ago). This does not disapprove that a human body with its organs has been preserved for thousands of years without any mummification.

This is mentioned in the Koran, so how did Muhammad (PBOH) know about it at that time (1400 years ago)?

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15734
Jan 10, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
To: Marco: By the way, I am not a scientist nor a scholar!
Then you better not try any scientific arguments with me, since I *am* a scientist.
Ahmed wrote:
It is true that death penalty is applied to those who commits adultery (not fornication) adultery: is when a person cheats his/her spouse. However, you forget to mention that the adulterer has be witnessed by 4 persons (honest person) and when witnessed these 4 persons must see the adulterer in action! meaning that see the penis penetrating the vagina! also with the case of gays (not lesbians) scholars had different fatwa on it. However, the majority agreed on the death penalty if also the gay is witnessed by 4 persons (the same case with the adultery).
Yes, the victimless "crime" (an homosexual act) is considered so bad in islam, you can get the death penalty. We can see what islam considers "not innocent": consensual sex between adults.
Ahmed wrote:
About the rest of your comments. Especially of the fresh and salt water mixing (rivers and seas). Look after it and surf the internet and check the non-Muslim scientists research.
You can call me an ignorant :-)
I have no need to "look after it", I know this stuff myself. Fresh and salt water mix when given enough time. The more turbulence you create, the faster it goes. You can try it yourself: make a hot cup of water and dissolve a lot of sugar in it (it needs to be a lot). Cool it down, and then very carefully down the side of the glass add the same amount of pure water. You get two phases! Now take a spoon and stir vigourously. You get one phase!
I chose sugar here, because it is easier to do, but in principle you can do the same with table salt, especially if the temperature between the two water samples is different (but it really is more tricky due to the way you have to add the water to your cup, which is different from what happens in estuaries and deltas).
Ahmed wrote:
I do not have any problem with homosexuals, especially gays! However, for someone stating that it is a normal thing for the penis to enter the anus and that it is not normal to have a creator who is not created by another creator is a little bit odd to me :-)
"normal" is an opinion, not an objective fact. And there is a huge jump for considering something abnormal and considering it worthy of being killed...
Ahmed wrote:
As scientist you should know that the muscles around the anus and their function are different from those around the vagina.
Homosexuality does not require anal sex (with lesbians in particular uncommon). The koran does not make that distinction at all: homosexuality is bad, and you should be killed.

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15735
Jan 10, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
To Marco:
Hm, intesresting! If sailors has the knowledge of the the "Barrier" thing then why didn't people of the time of Mohammad (PBOH) rediculed him stating that? why didn't the masses of non-muslim arabs at that time and even the romans and educated and scientists living at that period say that this calim of Mohammad (PBOH) is a lie?!
Why should they say he lied? He told something they already knew!
Ahmed wrote:
If you are a scientist and have a very well knowledge then why don't know call Dr Zakir for a debate?!
Dr Zakir is open for anyone calling him for a dialoge, you can even specify the place and time and he will be more than happy to even take care of all the expences!
Ask him for a debate!
First of all, there is a famous saying: "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference".

Second, what would be the use of a debate with Zakir Naik? He cannot be convinced, nor will those who are most likely to be present at the debate. No muslim will accept the koran is not miraculous, so there's no use for a debate.

Third, people HAVE asked him for debates, and he refused! He demands the audience is at least 10,000, for example, and declines any and all written debate.

Which brings me to point four: I would never ever accept a spoken debate with Zakir Naik, because he is a pretty good showman, but very, very loose on his facts. As a scientist, I will only say what I know is true, which automatically means the debate is heavily skewed. An oral debate is often a popularity contest, rather than a factual contest.

In other words: debating Zakir Naik is completely useless. I would have a better conversation with a brick wall...
Ahmed wrote:
Why don't you ignore arguming with me and ask someone who has more knowlede like Dr Zakir to argue with?
I bet you won't! and I know why!:-)
Clearly you do not know why.

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15736
Jan 10, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
To Marco:
I say: You atheists were the first to deny the existence of God, then prove it!!
You deny the existence of thousands of gods, so please prove they do not exist, before you can expect that one god you believe in exists. Remember, your god-view came MUCH later than the god(s) of hundreds of other religions. In other words, YOU started with denying the existence of a lot of gods, without providing any evidence.

But I might consider my own comment from earlier: never argue with a fool, as someone (you) who wants me to prove a negative will never ever understand what constitutes "proof".
Ahmed wrote:
You got very angry, upset, arogant and used an abusive language with me.
I merely exposed your racist views.
Ahmed wrote:
Imagine if I show this argument to a scientist in Hungary! What do u think he will say about you, especially that you are a scientist?
By the way I showed our argument to some of my colleges I know who are also atheists as you are and even used to argue with me, but yet they were serprised when they saw the abusive language you have used and how upset you got, as if it is a personal conflict between 2 people.
It seems that my guess was right about arguing with atheists from the west (especially the US):-)
Neither I nor Igor are from the US.

I also have little doubt that some of your colleagues are as virulenty racist as you are, and therefore consider my comments "abusive".

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15737
Jan 10, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
To Igor:
About swine, that is forbidden in Islam, science have proved that pork has a lot of worms in it (tape worm). Yet if you cook it it will die, but its eggs do not die even when cooked, only if you literally burn it!
This is false. "Science" has proven that *many* animals have the roundworm (not tapeworm) that causes trichinosis. Cooking is sufficient to kill both the worm itself and its eggs.

And why this preoccipation with trichinosis? Thousands of people die every year due to Salmonella infections, quite often from chicken.
Ahmed wrote:
Another thing about swine is that it eats anything, it is a scavenger, it even eats stool and enjoys it!
Chicken also do this, but I don't see the koran forbidding eating chicken!
Ahmed wrote:
Anyways, other meat (only cattle) is allowed to be consumed!
Cattle is a common source of E.coli infections, and also Salmonella.
Ahmed wrote:
You know that scientists presumed that Human comes from animal origin, yet a few years ago, science proved that Humans do not originate from animal and that it is a unique creature of its own.
That is what exactly the Koran tells us about human being (1400 years ago)
LOL! You actually have it backward: for centuries people thought humans were something special, until Darwin proposed how humans (and all other living beings) were actually descendents of prior living beings, and that we have a common ancestor. Subsequent research has confirmed this, but at the time it had quite a few people really upset.

Today you still find mostly religious zealots declining the suggestion that we have evolved from other species, and it looks like you've been caught in their web, too.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15738
Jan 10, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
To Igor:
You say:
You have failed to give any explanation of how your creator can just exist without explanation.
All you have is the presumption that he does.
It is a presumption but it makes sense.
The 3 points I gave about Atheists explanation of the universe is a presumption as well but it does not make any sense :-)
The Atheists presumption is that we don't yet know how the universe began.
The alternative is to make something up. We leave that to the theists.
Ahmed wrote:
I did not fail to explain the God's cause, simply because no one knows how and what he is made of!
And the question of the cause of God belongs to God himself, not to me or anyone!
So the question of the God's cause should be addressed to God himself :-)
This is logical, because when someone is doing something mysterious that no one else can understand, you will not go asking anyone about that mysterious behavior of that person, instead what makes sense is to ask the concerned one himself!
In the case of God it is an impossibility to figure out the cause of him!! and if you think about, as his own creation and servants we do not have the right to even question him.
Then how can we know if he even exists?
Ahmed wrote:
Think about it this way, God is our boss. However, God does not want you to work for him to benefit him, remember God does not want anything from you, other than obey him sincerely, but in a loving way, and obeying him means that you live your life on his terms! I know it is hard to do that, because this means that you will not be able to go to discos, get drunk, date as many women as you wish. But think about it, God does not want you to harm your self, you see these are the restrictions, I am talking about!
First you have to prove that out of the thousands of Gods of this world yours is real one, otherwise we will be following the wrong rules and be punished for it.
Ahmed wrote:
Science today have proved that changing partner increases the risk of prostate cancer in men, see, I am not talking about sexual transmitted diseases because a lot will say (use protection), still also psychological problems can come up, you know always breaking up, getting heart break a lot of times, feeling unsecured and loosing even self esteem because of rejection. The solution is simple, get married! When you get married, your life becomes more stable, healthier, and even your immunity gets stronger, besides, marriage also gives the feeling of security.
About alcohol, you know it feels good to drink, but thin it is very bad to the health, I guess I don't have to list these health risks.
However, I know and by the way Islam does not deny the benefits of alcohol, on the contrary Quran speaks about intoxicants (that is alcohol, narcotics and anything that makes you get intoxicated) that they have lots of benefits, yet there harmful side effects are much more like maybe 1:10000.
You see one cup of wine is healthy. However, Human cannot control its own desire, one cup of wine will make you feel good, the first day, second maybe third then after that, you won't feel its effect, you will need to have 2 cups and here the problem starts with the health!
Anyone can write a book of rules which if followed theoretically would make for a better world, but nobody follows the rules. It would be a very boring world if they did.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15739
Jan 10, 2013
 
Ahmed wrote:
The article is not gibberish.
It is a fact and reality that this pharaoh's body has been preserved for over thousands of years and its organs are still there (the body is not mummified)
He was most definitely mummified.

“Egyptologists were also interested by the mummy's noticeably thin neck. An X-ray revealed that the neck had a piece of wood lodged into the upper chest, essentially keeping the head in place. It is believed that during the mummification process the head had accidentally been knocked off by those performing the mummification. In Egyptian culture if any part of the body were to come off, the soul of the body would not continue to exist in the afterlife, so those performing the mummification carefully placed the head back and lodged a wooden stick into the neck in order to keep the head in place.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_II#Mumm...

Mummification procees.

“The first step was to remove the internal organs and liquid so that the body would not decay. The embalmers took out the brain by inserting a sharp object in the nostril and breaking the brain and liquefying it. The next step was to remove the internal organs, the lungs, liver, stomach, and intestines, and place them in canopic jars with lids shaped like the heads of four protective deities, the sons of Horus. The heart stayed in the body, because in the hall of judgment it would be weighed against the feather of Maat. After the body was washed with wine, it was stuffed with bags of natron. The dehydration process took 40 days.[8]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian...
Ahmed wrote:
You can check it yoursef if you go to Egypt! Egyptian Muslim scientists were not surprised about it, since they have alreadyknew about it from the Koran :-)
No one who knew anything about ancient Egypt was surprised by it.
Ahmed wrote:
And besides Koran does not mention that it Ramses 2 or 3 or whoever it is. Koran mentions that it is the Pharaoh who chased Moses (PBOH) and the suns of Israel :-)
So the mentioned Ramses is still a presumption of Egyptologists (it is hard to specify which Ramses or even the exact time because this has happened long time ago). This does not disapprove that a human body with its organs has been preserved for thousands of years without any mummification.
The simple fact that both the Bible and Quran fail to identify one of the most important villains in their texts suggests that the writers didn't know his real name. I consider this to be good evidence those books are from man and not God.
Ahmed wrote:
This is mentioned in the Koran, so how did Muhammad (PBOH) know about it at that time (1400 years ago)?
Why would the people of Egypt (which is just up the Red sea from Mecca) forget about their history?

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000
Type the numbers you see in the image on the right:

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

•••
•••
•••
Enter and win $5000
•••
•••