Pope Francis holds the cross as he leads a vigil mass during Easter. REUTERS/Stefano Rellandini

There are 125 comments on the ABS-CBN News story from May 22, 2013, titled Pope Francis holds the cross as he leads a vigil mass during Easter. REUTERS/Stefano Rellandini. In it, ABS-CBN News reports that:

CBCP News quoted Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines and Cebu Archbishop Jose Palma as saying that he received a request from the Vatican to move the International Eucharistic Congress to a much earlier date.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at ABS-CBN News.

ELIAS IBARRA

Barrigada, Guam

#42 May 24, 2013
babyJesus wrote:
<quoted text>
where did u get portion of that paragraph?
.
U know nothing about the BIBLE!
Baby Palautot,

From my reference!!! You are a pagan and have no idea of what the Bible is!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
Ozzy

Coxsackie, NY

#43 May 24, 2013
This is what happens when an INM mouth is defeated and exposed....lots and lots of false propaganda. Lots and lots of angry statements. Lots and lots of twisting and covering the truth. Ileus thinks the more he types the more it has truth...but really is just more false garbage to hide the truth.
nyg

Concord, Canada

#44 May 24, 2013
Ahaha! He's veered so off topic but that paragraph written by Gibbons is self-explanatory!

“The images of Christ,
and of His Virgin Mother, and of other Saints, are to be had and
retained, especially in churches; and a due honor and veneration
is to be given to them; not that any divinity or virtue is believed
to be in them for which they are to be honored, or that any prayer
is to be made to them, or that any confidence is to be placed in
them, as was formerly done by the heathens, who placed their
hopes in idols; but because the honor which is given them is
referred to the originals which they represent, so that by the
images which we kiss, and before which we uncover our heads or
kneel, we adore Christ and venerate His Saints, whose likeness
they represent.”

In short, imagery and statues are not worshiped; they hold no divine value. What they represent is worshiped.

SIMPLE! It does not need ANY FURTHER explanation.

Elias intentionally omitted this part of the paragraph;

"and a due honor and veneration
is to be given to them; not that any divinity or virtue is believed
to be in them for which they are to be honored, or that any prayer
is to be made to them, or that any confidence is to be placed in
them, as was formerly done by the heathens, who placed their
hopes in idols"

Pretty important to the context of what was written. He is the 'chop shop' of the bible and religious text.
nyg

Concord, Canada

#45 May 24, 2013
NEWSFLASH NEWSFLASH NEWSFLASH!

Elias caught chopping, omitting and taking written words out of context YET AGAIN!
nyg

Toronto, Canada

#46 May 24, 2013
ELIAS IBARRA wrote:
<quoted text>
Nyg,
Okay, let us revisit once again the portion of the paragraph which you said I had omitted:
"....or that any confidence is to be placed in
them, as was formerly done by the heathens, who placed their
hopes in idols...."
Is it true that Catholics do not place confidence on thei scarecrows??? A BIG NO!!!
Rarely would you find a Catholic home without a religious icon or an image of any saint especially that of Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary. It would be next to impossible to find a Roman Catholic Church devoid of even a single religious image. Precisely, because, "The Holy Synod commands that images of Christ, of the Mother of God and of the other saints be kept in churches, and that due honor and reverence be paid to them, not because it is believed that there is any divinity in them, or that anything may be asked of them, but because the honor which is done to them is done to the prototypes they represent."
Reference:(The Book of Catholic Quotations. John Chapin, gen., p. 459)
The rationale behind the use of images in Catholic churches is the proclamation of the "Holy Synod" of the Roman Catholic Church and not any commandment of God. Such being the case, the command of the "Holy Synod" of the Roman Catholic Church is of man and not of God, and can never qualify or be of the same quality as the commandment of God.
What prompted the Catholic Church to command that images be kept in churches? Is it based on what the Scriptures say about images?
"We cannot, therefore, over-estimate the salutary effect produced upon us in a church or room adorned with sacred paintings." ...
Reference:(James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith Of Our Fathers, p. 171.)
Post 1... to be continued...
Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
All you have to do is read gibbon's paragraph entirely!

“The images of Christ,
and of His Virgin Mother, and of other Saints, are to be had and
retained, especially in churches; and a due honor and veneration
is to be given to them; not that any divinity or virtue is believed
to be in them for which they are to be honored, or that any prayer
is to be made to them, or that any confidence is to be placed in
them, as was formerly done by the heathens, who placed their
hopes in idols; but because the honor which is given them is
referred to the originals which they represent, so that by the
images which we kiss, and before which we uncover our heads or
kneel, we adore Christ and venerate His Saints, whose likeness
they represent.”

Self explanatory! LOL
nyg

Concord, Canada

#47 May 24, 2013
ELIAS IBARRA wrote:
<quoted text>
Nyg,
Okay, let us revisit once again the portion of the paragraph which you said I had omitted:
"....or that any confidence is to be placed in
them, as was formerly done by the heathens, who placed their
hopes in idols...."
Is it true that Catholics do not place confidence on thei scarecrows??? A BIG NO!!!
Rarely would you find a Catholic home without a religious icon or an image of any saint especially that of Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary. It would be next to impossible to find a Roman Catholic Church devoid of even a single religious image. Precisely, because, "The Holy Synod commands that images of Christ, of the Mother of God and of the other saints be kept in churches, and that due honor and reverence be paid to them, not because it is believed that there is any divinity in them, or that anything may be asked of them, but because the honor which is done to them is done to the prototypes they represent."
Reference:(The Book of Catholic Quotations. John Chapin, gen., p. 459)
The rationale behind the use of images in Catholic churches is the proclamation of the "Holy Synod" of the Roman Catholic Church and not any commandment of God. Such being the case, the command of the "Holy Synod" of the Roman Catholic Church is of man and not of God, and can never qualify or be of the same quality as the commandment of God.
What prompted the Catholic Church to command that images be kept in churches? Is it based on what the Scriptures say about images?
"We cannot, therefore, over-estimate the salutary effect produced upon us in a church or room adorned with sacred paintings." ...
Reference:(James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith Of Our Fathers, p. 171.)
Post 1... to be continued...
Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
Again you take Gibbons out of context.

Full text

Is not our country flooded with obscene pictures and immodest
representations which corrupt our youths? If the agents of
Satan employ means so vile for a bad end; if they are cunning
enough to pour through the senses into the hearts of the unwary
the insidious poison of sin, by placing before them lascivious
portraits, in God's name, why should not we sanctify the souls of
our children by means of pious emblems? Why should not we
make the eye the instrument of edification as the enemy makes
it the organ of destruction? Shall the pen of the artist, the pencil
of the painter and the chisel of the sculptor be prostituted to the
basest purposes? God forbid! The arts were intended to be the
handmaids of religion.

Almost every moment of the day the eye is receiving
impressions from outward objects and instantly communicating
these impressions to the soul. Thus the soul receives every day
thousands of impressions, good or bad, according to the character
of the objects presented to its gaze.

We cannot, therefore, over-estimate the salutary effect
produced upon us in a church or room adorned with sacred
paintings. We feel, while in their presence, that we are in the
company of the just.

->> The contemplation of these pious portraits
chastens our affections, elevates our thoughts, checks our levity
and diffuses around us a healthy atmosphere. <--

Again you cut out key points! Ridiculous!
ELIAS IBARRA

Barrigada, Guam

#48 May 25, 2013
Ozzy wrote:
This is what happens when an INM mouth is defeated and exposed....lots and lots of false propaganda. Lots and lots of angry statements. Lots and lots of twisting and covering the truth. Ileus thinks the more he types the more it has truth...but really is just more false garbage to hide the truth.
Ozzy,

The missing portion of my reference is just a way of going straight to the point!!! After you complained, I showed it to you and its reproduction have all the more trashed to pieces and feces the Catholic lies that you do not worship saints and graven images!!! You do worship saints and graven images!!!

Roman Catholics do worship graven images but what your authorities used in describing your actions are technical words!!! But still, be it adoration or veneration, it is still tantamount to worship based on the definition given by the dictionary!!!

Improve your low I.Q.!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
ELIAS IBARRA

Barrigada, Guam

#49 May 25, 2013
nyg wrote:
<quoted text>
All you have to do is read gibbon's paragraph entirely!
“The images of Christ,
and of His Virgin Mother, and of other Saints, are to be had and
retained, especially in churches; and a due honor and veneration
is to be given to them; not that any divinity or virtue is believed
to be in them for which they are to be honored, or that any prayer
is to be made to them, or that any confidence is to be placed in
them, as was formerly done by the heathens, who placed their
hopes in idols; but because the honor which is given them is
referred to the originals which they represent, so that by the
images which we kiss, and before which we uncover our heads or
kneel, we adore Christ and venerate His Saints, whose likeness
they represent.”
Self explanatory! LOL
Nyg,

What Mr. Gibbons said in the above paragraph has been declared false already by other Roman Catholic writers!!! They all said that Catholics do worship the saints and graven images by way of adoration and veneration!!! REVIEW MY PREVIOUS POSTINGS!!!

The dictionary has given us the definition of both veneration and adoration as an act of worship!!! YOU LOST BIG!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
ELIAS IBARRA

Barrigada, Guam

#50 May 25, 2013
nyg wrote:
<quoted text>
Again you take Gibbons out of context.
Full text
Is not our country flooded with obscene pictures and immodest
representations which corrupt our youths? If the agents of
Satan employ means so vile for a bad end; if they are cunning
enough to pour through the senses into the hearts of the unwary
the insidious poison of sin, by placing before them lascivious
portraits, in God's name, why should not we sanctify the souls of
our children by means of pious emblems? Why should not we
make the eye the instrument of edification as the enemy makes
it the organ of destruction? Shall the pen of the artist, the pencil
of the painter and the chisel of the sculptor be prostituted to the
basest purposes? God forbid! The arts were intended to be the
handmaids of religion.
Almost every moment of the day the eye is receiving
impressions from outward objects and instantly communicating
these impressions to the soul. Thus the soul receives every day
thousands of impressions, good or bad, according to the character
of the objects presented to its gaze.
We cannot, therefore, over-estimate the salutary effect
produced upon us in a church or room adorned with sacred
paintings. We feel, while in their presence, that we are in the
company of the just.
->> The contemplation of these pious portraits
chastens our affections, elevates our thoughts, checks our levity
and diffuses around us a healthy atmosphere. <--
Again you cut out key points! Ridiculous!
Nyg,

No matter how Mr. Gibbons justify Catholic veneration and adoration of saints and graven images, the words of God still stands true in the Christian Era prohibiting the worship of other gods and saints:


"They exchanged the truth about God for a lie; they worship and serve what God has created instead of the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever! Amen." (Rom. 1:25, TEV)

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
Ozzy

Coxsackie, NY

#51 May 25, 2013
LOL Ileus was trashed into his own pieces and feces here and now continues to twist and lie. bwahahahahahahhaa!!!
nyg

Richmond Hill, Canada

#52 May 25, 2013
ELIAS IBARRA wrote:
<quoted text>
Nyg,
What Mr. Gibbons said in the above paragraph has been declared false already by other Roman Catholic writers!!! They all said that Catholics do worship the saints and graven images by way of adoration and veneration!!! REVIEW MY PREVIOUS POSTINGS!!!
The dictionary has given us the definition of both veneration and adoration as an act of worship!!! YOU LOST BIG!!!
Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
If you look at the Catheism of the Catholic Church which is the official doctrine, the writings of Gibbons agrees. The other writers you quite do not agree with the Catheism and are wrong.

You've already been proven to mix up, subtract and take writers out of context, so I wouldn't be surprised if you manipulated the text of those authors as well. Lying scum.

Of course, veneration holds different meanings in different contexts. Veneration of the saints is to show a profound respect; thats all. Do you have a profound respect and awe for your parents, family, mentors, and those who have passed away? Same thing.

Of course, Jose ventilacion has been telling you the opposite for how many years. By watching two debates on YouTube, I already see you have the exact same hollow arguments.

Another check mark in the fail box for elias
nyg

Mississauga, Canada

#53 May 25, 2013
catechism of the Catholic Church. The official doctrine of the church states;

2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.71

Note "respectful veneration" given to the images whom represent the saints, whom are receiving this "respectful veneration". Also note the segment which states that "respectful veneration" is not the same as the adoration due to God alone.

Elias and INC debunked yet again.

Quoting Jesse Romero his debate with Ventilacion

"If the authors of the books you quote do not agree with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, they are wrong."

Jose replied _ "well that is your opinion" LOL
Effendi Bohong

Denpasar, Indonesia

#54 May 25, 2013
Such tiresome rubbish !! If the mythical JC had been executed more recently, a lot of foolish bible bashers would be wearing replica electric chairs, or guillotines, around their necks.
truth

Perth, Australia

#55 May 26, 2013
i will protect you indonesia
don't be afraid
you have another enemy
it is'in' between

i am as i am

others stay on my place
ELIAS IBARRA

Tamuning, Guam

#56 May 26, 2013
Ozzy wrote:
LOL Ileus was trashed into his own pieces and feces here and now continues to twist and lie. bwahahahahahahhaa!!!
Ozzy,

How could you trash me into pices and feces when even the so-called missing part of the reference which I posted is clearly proven by my other references including the dictionary that indeed Roman Catholics worship graven images and saints!!! Here is one more proof that even relics such as underwears of saints are being worshipped by Roman Catholics:

"Q. 16. What is idolatry? Catholic authorities do not cite the Bible as the basis for the use of images in their churches. What they cite is the pronouncement of the Council of Trent which is diametrically opposed to what God says in Exodus 20:1-5. It is interesting to note tht Roman Catholics kiss the images of Christ, His Virgin Mother, and other saints. They also uncover their heads or kneel before them. Yet the term use in the case of images (granting without conceding that they are actually the images of Christ) is 'adore' whereas in the case of the "saints" is "venerate".

Call it what you may - venerate, adore, or worship, the act of bowing or kneeling before an image is a direct affront to God! Is venerating an image idolatry? What is idolatry?

"In popular language, idolatry means the worship of images and statues and other handmade objects as God. Strictly speaking, however, idolatry involves the worship of any creature. Thus, emperor-worship is a type of idolatry."

Reference:(John Walsh, S. J., This Is Catholicism, p. 50)

The worship of any creature is idolatry according to Catholic mentors themselves, Thus, emperor worship is a form of idolatry. Do Catholics worship images of saints? Here is an unsolicited evidence from a Catholic book:

"13. Is the worship of saints confined to their person?

"No, it extends also to their relics and images.

"14. What do we call relics?

"We call relics: 1. The remains of the body of a saint who has been canonized or beatified by the Church; 2. The objects which have belonged to the saints, or which have touched their bodies: such as their linen, coffins, etc."

Ozzy and all Roman Catholics must stop kissing and worshipping the underwears of their alleged saints!!! For these are acts of insanity and sexual perversity!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
ELIAS IBARRA

Tamuning, Guam

#57 May 26, 2013
nyg wrote:
<quoted text>
If you look at the Catheism of the Catholic Church which is the official doctrine, the writings of Gibbons agrees. The other writers you quite do not agree with the Catheism and are wrong.
You've already been proven to mix up, subtract and take writers out of context, so I wouldn't be surprised if you manipulated the text of those authors as well. Lying scum.
Nyg,

Do you mean to say that what is taught by one priest in the Catholic Church is opposed by other priests in the same Holy Roman Catholic Apostolic Church??? What does that make of Roman Catholicism??? A FALSE RELIGION WITH CONFICTING DOCTRINES WHICH OF COURSE IS VERY TRUE!!!

Improve your low I.Q.!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
truth

Perth, Australia

#58 May 26, 2013
you are member of santa close

i will pray for african popeeeeeeeeeeee

if could i will go in south africa have passaport there small tinywood house as well tiny ship wih few sheeop..thats all
run away from evil corupt world

and madagaskar krgulien island
its will be 75 degree with 25 degree

shut up evil people

now
God alone will act against all of you
now i am very angry
nesjedam sa zavrnutom drogiranom propalom sijom=pride
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooo

trbat ce ih djecice izvrnut naopako sve
e tako
bas lijepo
odkud bi oni znali sto je bog
zaakat cemo ih svak svojim putem
nemoj sad reci nemoj kazat

pokvareno drogirano drustvo

vidit cete djeco doklen ce se veseliti

onda ce znati
tko je majka svih siromaha
truth

Perth, Australia

#59 May 26, 2013
pokvarena korumpirana medija
i am sick of them evil people
ELIAS IBARRA

Tamuning, Guam

#60 May 26, 2013
nyg wrote:
catechism of the Catholic Church. The official doctrine of the church states;
2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:
Nyg,

Can you find an instance in the Bible that "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype"??? A BIG NO!!! Can you compare God to the works of the skillful hands of man??? Can you show proof in the Bible that when venerating an image you also venerate the person portrayed in it"??? What if the image was just the result of the imagination of Leonardo da Vinci who had one model when painting Christ and Judas Iscariot in the "Last Supper"???

What is the truth about venerating as explained by the dictionary???

"ven-er-ation, n (L. veneratio-onis) from venerari, to worship, reverence.)

"Syn.- reverence, awe, adoration"

Reference:[Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary, Deluxe Second Edition]

"Veneration," therefore, means to worship. It is synymous with reverence, awe, adoration."

Improve your low I.Q.!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
ELIAS IBARRA

Tamuning, Guam

#61 May 26, 2013
truth wrote:
pokvarena korumpirana medija
i am sick of them evil people
Truth,

I emphatize with you!!! Because Protestantism did a heinous crime in Kenya which the public now know as the "British Gulag Archipelago" wherein millions were killed!!! Just like the Roman Catholic Inquisition!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam

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