Catholic Church in polygamy attack on...

Catholic Church in polygamy attack on civil unions {CC against gay marriage}

There are 38 comments on the Free Republic story from Jul 23, 2012, titled Catholic Church in polygamy attack on civil unions {CC against gay marriage}. In it, Free Republic reports that:

The Catholic Church in Italy has declared that the introduction of civil partnerships demanded by gays, lesbians and their supporters could "legitimise polygamy". The bizarre warning came after Milan's liberal mayor, Giuliano Pisapia, announced that the city was to begin a register of civil unions.

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“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#1 Jul 24, 2012
I think the church should stop trying to make the rules for the whole world, and keep to its own little flock.

FaFoxy

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#2 Jul 24, 2012
Sherlayne wrote:
I think the church should stop trying to make the rules for the whole world, and keep to its own little flock.
I agree.

Also, since Jews were polygamous in the 1st century AD (and for about 1000 years afterwards as well), it would seem to me that among early Chistians, 1st century Jews who became Christians, there were probably Christians who practiced polygamy as well, although I've never actually read that anywhere. It just stands to readon.

I can't see Jews who were polygamous, suddenly casting off their wives upon becoming Christians.

“Boot to the Head”

Since: Jul 08

Mogadore, OH

#3 Jul 24, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
Also, since Jews were polygamous in the 1st century AD (and for about 1000 years afterwards as well), it would seem to me that among early Chistians, 1st century Jews who became Christians, there were probably Christians who practiced polygamy as well, although I've never actually read that anywhere. It just stands to readon.
I can't see Jews who were polygamous, suddenly casting off their wives upon becoming Christians.
You'll notice nothing good ever comes of Old Testament polygamy.

You never read about 1st century polygamous Christians because there weren't any 1st century polygamous Jews.

“Boot to the Head”

Since: Jul 08

Mogadore, OH

#4 Jul 24, 2012
Sherlayne wrote:
I think the church should stop trying to make the rules for the whole world, and keep to its own little flock.
Come on now Black Mermaid. Catholics get to have there say on issues too. Even if the rank and file have trouble agreeing on anything except that they are in fact Catholic.

Look at the "Three Parents Law" coming to a vote in California.

In Italy it is not the "little flock" you may see in the USA. Probably 99% Catholic (although only 10% go to Mass on Sunday)

FaFoxy

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#5 Jul 24, 2012
Cathoholic wrote:
<quoted text>
You'll notice nothing good ever comes of Old Testament polygamy.
You never read about 1st century polygamous Christians because there weren't any 1st century polygamous Jews.
I find that hard to believe. Polygamy among Jews wasn't banned until about the 14th century. And there are still polygamous Jews today.

The Romans were monogamous and had civil laws against polygamy which they tired to enforced on the Jews but were largely unsuccessful. So I can't believe that there were no polygamous 1st century Jews, and by extension polygamous 1st centuy Christians.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#6 Jul 24, 2012
Cathoholic wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on now Black Mermaid. Catholics get to have there say on issues too. Even if the rank and file have trouble agreeing on anything except that they are in fact Catholic.
Look at the "Three Parents Law" coming to a vote in California.
In Italy it is not the "little flock" you may see in the USA. Probably 99% Catholic (although only 10% go to Mass on Sunday)
What I'm speaking of is that your church has NO RIGHT to try to stop pharmacies from filling prescriptions for birth control - one small example. Your church will not allow you to vote for pro-choice candidates; I'm not crazy about the idea of abortion either but I don't feel I have the right to make that decision for the whole world. Many people DO feel gay marriage should be allowed - if they aren't Catholic, your church has no business trying to sway them against it. No matter what you think or want, you will never convert the entire planet to Catholicism - surely you're not naive in thinking that's even a remote possibility, are you? And whether you like it or not, many Catholic countries are no longer paying much heed to Ratzi. No matter what he does, including dragging his damn feet in prosecuting his own clergy who hurt so many innocent children, you'd stick up for him. And there's plenty of evidence that John Paul did a lot of covering up, but you won't admit that, will you? I myself was very disappointed in him, as I thought he was a much different person from what he really was. All I can say is God have mercy on him.

I was Catholic most of my life, and I don't know about you, but it HURTS when you find that so many you trusted were so dishonest.

“Boot to the Head”

Since: Jul 08

Mogadore, OH

#7 Jul 24, 2012
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
What I'm speaking of is that your church has NO RIGHT to try to stop pharmacies from filling prescriptions for birth control - one small example. <quoted text>

I think the question is should the Catholic Church or a Catholic business owner be forced to violate their conscience by paying for them?

[QUOTE who="Sherlayne"]< quoted text>
Your church will not allow you to vote for pro-choice candidates; I'm not crazy about the idea of abortion either but I don't feel I have the right to make that decision for the whole world. <quoted text>

Not quite true. We are allowed to vote for the lesser of two evils. Which, let's face it is almost always the case in politics.

[QUOTE who="Sherlayne"]< quoted text>
Many people DO feel gay marriage should be allowed - if they aren't Catholic, your church has no business trying to sway them against it. <quoted text>

Of course we do! Every organization has a right to spread its message.

[QUOTE who="Sherlayne"]< quoted text>
No matter what you think or want, you will never convert the entire planet to Catholicism - surely you're not naive in thinking that's even a remote possibility, are you?<quoted text>

But Christ directed us to spread the Gospel anyway.

Matthew 28:19-20 "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

[QUOTE who="Sherlayne"]< quoted text>
And whether you like it or not, many Catholic countries are no longer paying much heed to Ratzi. No matter what he does, including dragging his damn feet in prosecuting his own clergy who hurt so many innocent children, you'd stick up for him. And there's plenty of evidence that John Paul did a lot of covering up, but you won't admit that, will you? <quoted text>

Seriously, I am not trying to deny or just yank your chain Sherlayne. I don't know of any valid cover-up allegation against Blessed JPII.

[QUOTE who="Sherlayne"]< quoted text>
I myself was very disappointed in him, as I thought he was a much different person from what he really was. All I can say is God have mercy on him.
I was Catholic most of my life, and I don't know about you, but it HURTS when you find that so many you trusted were so dishonest.
I understand what you are saying. I came into the Church only about 9 years ago and there has been scandal before during and after. There have been sinners as well as saints in the Church since the beginning. many bad things have been done. The media has had a field day with it.

But I will not leave because I believe it is the church founded by Christ. I won't leave Peter because of the actions of Judas.

Even though I think you are wrong, I still respect you.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#8 Jul 24, 2012
Cathoholic wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand what you are saying. I came into the Church only about 9 years ago and there has been scandal before during and after. There have been sinners as well as saints in the Church since the beginning. many bad things have been done. The media has had a field day with it.
But I will not leave because I believe it is the church founded by Christ. I won't leave Peter because of the actions of Judas.
Even though I think you are wrong, I still respect you.
Very nice of you; you also have my respect and I never give false compliments.

I didn't leave because of the scandals; I left long before they came to light. I find the whole thing a very sad shame. I've also repeatedly stated that it is in no way the fault of the religion - the guilty parties are responsible for their own actions. The church itself would never approve of such behavior.

I do blame them though for not taking swifter action. If you or I did such things, we'd have been in prison a long time ago.

One person I always enjoyed listening to on tv was Fr. Ken Roberts; I was heartbroken when HE was found to be an offender. That priest was smart and seemed to be such a good man. I feel VERY bad that he turned out to be an offender.

FaFoxy

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#9 Jul 24, 2012
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
What I'm speaking of is that your church has NO RIGHT to try to stop pharmacies from filling prescriptions for birth control - one small example. Your church will not allow you to vote for pro-choice candidates; I'm not crazy about the idea of abortion either but I don't feel I have the right to make that decision for the whole world. Many people DO feel gay marriage should be allowed - if they aren't Catholic, your church has no business trying to sway them against it. No matter what you think or want, you will never convert the entire planet to Catholicism - surely you're not naive in thinking that's even a remote possibility, are you? And whether you like it or not, many Catholic countries are no longer paying much heed to Ratzi. No matter what he does, including dragging his damn feet in prosecuting his own clergy who hurt so many innocent children, you'd stick up for him. And there's plenty of evidence that John Paul did a lot of covering up, but you won't admit that, will you? I myself was very disappointed in him, as I thought he was a much different person from what he really was. All I can say is God have mercy on him.
I was Catholic most of my life, and I don't know about you, but it HURTS when you find that so many you trusted were so dishonest.
Are you now Protestant ?

FaFoxy

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#10 Jul 24, 2012
A major cause of the constant child abuse scandals in the RCC is caused by it's top-down organization. Nearly all Protestant denominations are bottom-up organizations, where the members of tehcongregation choose their own leaders, such as pastors, bishops, deacons, etc.

I think that having a bottom-up organization results in oversight of teh leaders (there is apparently NO congregational oversight in the RCC), so that if a church official is accused of wrongdoing, the situation is usually taken care of instead of being covered up as has bene the policy of the RCC.

The abuses of RCC clergy that have come to light recently (in teh past couple of decades) have probably been going on for at least a century, and probably MANY centuries.

Why anyone would want to be a member of the RCC is beyond my understanding. It's a hateful organization, and IS UN-American.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#11 Jul 24, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you now Protestant ?
No, I don't belong to any denomination.
paul shykora arts

Calgary, Canada

#12 Jul 25, 2012
..THE CHURCH Has Legal/Libel LAW-Right's,too....eh..

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#13 Jul 25, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
A major cause of the constant child abuse scandals in the RCC is caused by it's top-down organization. Nearly all Protestant denominations are bottom-up organizations, where the members of tehcongregation choose their own leaders, such as pastors, bishops, deacons, etc.
I think that having a bottom-up organization results in oversight of teh leaders (there is apparently NO congregational oversight in the RCC), so that if a church official is accused of wrongdoing, the situation is usually taken care of instead of being covered up as has bene the policy of the RCC.
The abuses of RCC clergy that have come to light recently (in teh past couple of decades) have probably been going on for at least a century, and probably MANY centuries.
Why anyone would want to be a member of the RCC is beyond my understanding. It's a hateful organization, and IS UN-American.
You make a lot of sense :)

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#14 Jul 25, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
Also, since Jews were polygamous in the 1st century AD (and for about 1000 years afterwards as well), it would seem to me that among early Chistians, 1st century Jews who became Christians, there were probably Christians who practiced polygamy as well, although I've never actually read that anywhere. It just stands to readon.
I can't see Jews who were polygamous, suddenly casting off their wives upon becoming Christians.
Look at all the wives Moses had - and I'm not knocking him; he was a great man as far as I'm concerned.

“Boot to the Head”

Since: Jul 08

Mogadore, OH

#15 Jul 26, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
A major cause of the constant child abuse scandals in the RCC is caused by it's top-down organization. Nearly all Protestant denominations are bottom-up organizations, where the members of tehcongregation choose their own leaders, such as pastors, bishops, deacons, etc.
Statistically incorrect. Sexual misconduct with minors (almost always teens) in clergy is spread fairly evenly across religions and denominations.
FaFoxy wrote:
I think that having a bottom-up organization results in oversight of teh leaders (there is apparently NO congregational oversight in the RCC), so that if a church official is accused of wrongdoing, the situation is usually taken care of instead of being covered up as has bene the policy of the RCC.
This is also inacurate. The Catholic Church (Latin Rite and others) has had varying policy over the last several decades. Up into the 1980's treatment was considered a viable option. It wasn't until the 1980's that many state governments stopped maditory treatment and began longer manditory prison terms.

You also mischarcterise the policy of the Church. Currently it is a zero tolerance policy. Once accused, a person (lay or clergy) must be exonerated before returning to work involving contact with the public. Implementation is up to the Bishop and his staff. Tragically, not all Bishops have been adhering to Vatican policy.

“Boot to the Head”

Since: Jul 08

Mogadore, OH

#16 Jul 26, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
Why anyone would want to be a member of the RCC is beyond my understanding. It's a hateful organization, and IS UN-American.
Because you should only follow a religion that suites you politics? Or should your politics reflect your truest heart felt beliefs?

Mark 12:17 So Jesus said to them,“Repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.” They were utterly amazed at him.

Matthew 5:10-12 Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you [falsely] because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

FaFoxy

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#17 Jul 26, 2012
Cathoholic wrote:
<quoted text>
Because you should only follow a religion that suites you politics? Or should your politics reflect your truest heart felt beliefs?
Mark 12:17 So Jesus said to them,“Repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.” They were utterly amazed at him.
Matthew 5:10-12 Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you [falsely] because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
You will find few people as PROUDLY ANTI-CATHOLIC as myself.

:)

“Boot to the Head”

Since: Jul 08

Mogadore, OH

#18 Jul 26, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
You will find few people as PROUDLY ANTI-CATHOLIC as myself.
:)
Is that coming from a Protestant or an atheist perspective?

“Boot to the Head”

Since: Jul 08

Mogadore, OH

#19 Jul 26, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
You will find few people as PROUDLY ANTI-CATHOLIC as myself.
:)
And how do you explain the prevalence of clergy predation on minors in Protestant denominations and secular organizations.

FaFoxy

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#20 Jul 26, 2012
Cathoholic wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that coming from a Protestant or an atheist perspective?
A church-going Lutheran !

:)

(Remember what Martin Luther aways said: "Damn the Catholics and pass the Communion Beer !)

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