Review: Anti-Catholicism in - The Golden Compass'?

[Victor]

xmasthecat wrote:

one last thing, about the supposed inherent cruelty of religion. Well -- all too true! The church was the site of some horrible stuff. It served as as focusing device for some horrible tendencies.
A few thoughts on this though.
1. The church was also the site of much good. More of this could be seen before it was made the state religion of Rome, when Christians were known for how they shared their wealth in common with each other and took care of the outcasts of society. It was really with the institutionalization of the church that the bad stuff started happening.
So, was it the church, or the institution? I think at that point you had two things overlapping that had no call to overlap.
2. Are all religions inherently cruel? that seems immediately ridiculous -- look at the Tibetans right now, for example. Were the Jews of all ages cruel? The Hindus? Buddhists generally?
if not, then one can't say all religion is good for is to breed evil. So maybe it's something else.
3. Are nonreligious cultures inherently less cruel than religious ones? I don't think so -- most of the horrors of our own time at least are not religiously motivated, but politically motivated. The Holocaust? Stalin's purges? not really religiously motivated. Darfur? The Hutu/Tutsi genocide?
What about the evil that happens in our own culture now? When I think of most of it, it seems either political or economic in nature.
4. If you read much at all about the Catholic church during its darkest days, it's really hard to read it as inherently religious, in certain ways. For example, it's hard to make the case that some of the Medici popes were made popes for religious reasons, or that following Christ was really their passion. Can anyone truly argue that they were examples of living Christlike lives? if so, then you've got an argument that Christianity corrupts. If not then maybe not.
If anything it seems that Christianity -- not necessarily other religions -- became a sometime organ of evil because it became mixed in political power. And when the two elements mixed, it seems like it was the basic hunger for power that corrupted the religious element, and not the religious element that corrupted politics. if anything, appealing to people's deepest beliefs, feelings, need for meaning in the world, made for a horrific tool for those who only wanted power and wealth. But this really just takes us back to human nature, and to what we can see in front of us today.
hell, we are still being controlled by appeals to our feelings and values and dreams. Only now it's called advertising.
anyhow. We dismiss religion in its true meaning at our peril. We shouldn't let misapplication of it pervert science -- but we shouldn't cut out our souls either in the interest of being merely accurate.
anyway....

Good post, good points, but expect the Catholic watch clique to swoop down on you, until your bones are picked clean. You aren't allowed anything thought provoking which might raise any serious questions.

[Guest]

Vista Sux wrote:

If I had kids I would take them to see this. Anything to counter the brainwashing effects of religion. I hope if I have kids they don't fall for that religious BS.

I totally agree!

[Wayne]

I don't know where Pullman has said that he "hates all Christians", but he has mentioned something about wanting to "kill God". I can't speak for him, but I think what he means by the statement is that he wishes to kill the "idea of God". As with the Trinity, the very idea of God is a human contrivance which has more than outlived its usefulness. The Catholic Church probably reacts so strongly to his work because it is the closest real world manifestation of the wicked theocracy he depicts in his books (Islam and U.S. evangelism are very close contenders).

[Marisa Lamm]

I have not read the books and I have a 16 year old who has. I am LDS and I have a friend recently who told me I should not be letting my son read those books because they are anti-GOD. The children are trying to kill God?? He has already gotten far into them. What do you suggest as discussion at this point?? I do not wish to read them myself.
Thanks

Joester wrote:

If you want to have a discussion with me personally, you can email me at [e-mail]. I like making friends with everyone from everywhere.

[tulip]

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[tulip]

test 2nd

[ally]

Wow how sad. A great story and great novels. It is a shame that people have to read deeper into things than they are, making up enemies wherever they look.

The great spirit, God, is not in a book, not in any religion, but in the living spirit of the cosmos itself.

Bash dogma and ignorance, yay! Have faith in god, not in man's perception of.

[Little Mary Sunshine]

2/27/08 3:48pm

Who better to identify evil than pedophiles and pederasts and those who harbor and protect them?

Anything that calls 'the church' a bunch of blood-letting and soul-sucking beasts is a recommendation for those who know the truth about this evil bunch of rogues whose only purpose on this earth is for self-aggrandizement, stealing from the poor, sexually molesting hundreds of thousands of children(if not millions by now) and wearing the costliest dresses in the universe - all while untold millions around the world die from hunger, disease and want. Too bad that book has yet to be written - or perhaps it has but has 'mysteriously disappeared."

All 'the church's' minions are poor excuses for humans and the worst examples of Christ's 'earthly representatives.'

Too bad the majority of 'believers' are made so fearful that they don't recognize these monsters for the true father they represent here on earth - Satan.

As far as the author, Phil Pullman hating 'the church' I am aghast that anyone doesn't!

Thanks, all - enjoy.

[Heather]

Thw way I see it, children wont even pick up these things like most of us do!

If they're happy and comfortable in their faith and enjoy practicing it I don't think parents have got nothing to worry about.
If not their parents need to talk to tehm about what the issues are concerning them!

Many Christian parents don't and because they've never felt to dare to question their faith, they grow to reject it!

I'll teach my children my faith, I'll teach them to be open minded and philosophical as well so whatever they choose as they're growing up, I know they've made the right decision!

[Heather]

The*

[Katy]

I was raised in the church, I went and saw this film, there is nothing wrong with trying to get rid of something that is going against the way that you beleive and something that is threatening your social structure. If you truly think about it, C.S Lewis has the same concept, as well as J.R.R. Tolkien and J.K. Rowling.
Its not all about killing a "God". But finding where you fit in society and making it safe for all who are in it according to those in power

[McNeely]

Wow....hardcore...die hard catholics...take it how it is. It was a movie like most showing that everything is connected and how there is someone always trying to take our souls (freewill) away from us. I do recall in the movie someone's lines were about freewill..hmmm...oh yeah and If you think about it Dust = the universe = daemon = soul...hmm..I think we are showing a pattern of life being connected somehow. Get a grip and get over yourselves. Who remembers the movie "DUNE"? Pretty much the same stuff, but oh yeah..that one is sounding like the koran...holy cow batman!

[Sandra]

I'm a seminary student, and first of all I think it's absurd for Christians to boycott the movie. If your faith isn't strong enough to survive an entertaining flick, then you need to do a little more soul searching. And if you think that this book or the movie will brainwash your children, then you are not doing your job of providing your children with a solid spiritual foundation. I'm tired of these church organized boycotts just because something doesn't agree with the Bible. It makes all of us Christians look ridiculous. Should be we boycotting more important things, like corporations that exploit and abuse our brothers and sisters around the world?

That being said, I haven't yet to read the books. I've only seen the first movie, and I enjoyed it! If the author is trying to push an atheist agenda, he is doing do in a very interesting way by using elements of prophecy and the supernatural. I'm interested to see how the plot develops.

I think that people need to be challenged in their faith. If this series critiques religion, then maybe that means that as a church, we have to take a deeper look at areas where we fail, and the ways we are hypocrites. Religion is something we created as a society, so it's something that must be open to critique through a real and thoughtful look at our faith.

[Allie]

I have this movie and I really think the anti-Christian thing is bogus. It has nothing to do with religion. It's actually a wonderful movie. See it twice, think about it, THEN say what you want. It is a well thought out movie even though the end was bogus :) Anywayz, take my advice, see it, think about it, Then say what you want!!

[Jim in Atlanta]

I can't say it was the worse movie I've seen in my enire lifetime, but it was among the top two. I was glad I rented on a DVD, becuse I would have killed myself if I'd paid for my wife and I to see this in the movie theatre. It was that bad. The movie never even attained a philosopical level that it intended, well thank God for that.

The best way I could desribe the entire movie was a void that was totally empty, and I litterally cheered when it was over...becuase I could bring it back to Blockbuster.

Freinds should not let friends drink and see the "Godless Compass." The statement in the movie that religion takes all the fun out of free will describes the entire movie.

[Are you serious]

The Anti-Catholicism element exists within the wording of the book, but not the film! The film is a wtered down version based on the least religiously offensive of the Golden Compass trilogy. I think it is more of an anti-organized religion and it is definatley there, but whether it will turn children against their faith is another question.

" At every turn, Forbes and Mulderig made excuses for Pullman. Calling the villains "the Magisterium"? Hey! It's "a bit unfortunate .... Yet the film's only clue that the Magisterium is a religious body comes in the form of the icons which decorate one of their local headquarters." And besides, the anti-Catholicism is not "the blatant real-world anti-Catholicism of, say, the recent 'Elizabeth: The Golden Age' or 'The Da Vinci Code'." Oh. Well then. As long as the anti-Catholicism is not blatant but is merely cleverly disguised, then I guess it's okay to feed to kids".
http://insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php...

[Parenting]

You can't protect your kids from the world. I'd say let your kids watch it, and watch it with them. Be there to answer any questions they may have, or even open the discussion with them yourselves. If you've never seen the movie or read the book, you're judging out of ignorance and that is a bigger problem than anything in this world. I watched it, enjoyed it for what it was. My kids started watching it and lost interest 1/4 of the way through it.

As for the movie it seems more to me as a bash against organized religion, portraying it as forcing itself onto the population. I'm against that myself, and I'm a strong believer in God. The way I feel, forced belief is not what God wants. God wants belief by choice, and you need free will to be allowed that chance. Anyone who would punish you for not believing what they do, would do so out of fear. If you argue their belief's, you're "attacking" their "understanding" on the way things are, and begin to doubt themselves. People fear the unknown and become extremely defensive in such a situation. The root of many problems in history.

That's just my belief. I didn't need anyone to tell me what to believe. I've heard many sides of the issue and formed opinion on the matter based on a combination of logic and what I feel in my heart.

If a mere movie, or story, portraying someone's beliefs cause you angst or fear, then perhaps you need to take a deep look into yourself and see that the real problem is there. If you're worried that your kids will learn more from it than you, then chances are you probably rely on TV too much to raise your children, and is that truly how you think children should learn?

[Anonymus]

It might say that in the books but I have watched the movie and there is no resemblence whatsoever about God or religion of any sort. It is alright to watch the movie, just don't let children read the books!

[DANNA]

WITNESS OF JESUS CHRIST wrote:

ITS POOR INTENSIONS OF THE SICK MINDED TO PUT SUCH GARBAGE INTO OUR CHILDREN'S MINDS, AND ITS OBVIOUS THAT SATAN IS BEHIND THAT. IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CHILDREN'S SOUL AND ABOUT YOUR SOUL, SAY NO TO SATAN!!!THANKS AND GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST GOD ALMIGHTY!!!!!!!!!!
GOD BLESS!!

OK... I think u need to really watch this movie... I am catholic and I have been all my life. I was raised in an Italian catholic family and I have also been in a catholic private school all my life, so I know the BIBLE inside and out... and my I say you are a moron!
Let me first let you know that Atheist do not believe in God so therefore the do not believe in Satan. They go hand in hand, and if you were a true Christian then you would know this. The belief in science and evolution is all the belief on an Atheist, and if you allow your children to be damaged by a movie full of fiction and magic, then u my friend have the problem, not the author.

[Chuck Schick]

Hey Jesus, thanks for all that - you really cheered me up. Lets do lunch this week, ok? Werd!