Robert Newman - The Mozart Myth

Apr 12, 2009 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: TruthSeeker24's anti-N.W.O. corner

Monday, April 06, 2009 Robert Newman - The Mozart Myth March 29, 2009 Robert Newman has been researching Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart for 15 years, we talk about the Myth, PR campaign and lies surrounding Mozart life.

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XAB

Worcester, UK

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#1
May 5, 2009
 
This guy Robert Newman has been banned from all the main classical musical discussion Forums for peddling disruptive and ludicrous theses that Mozart was a complete fraud. These Forums are all the big ones: Mozart Forum, Beethoven Reference Site, CMG, Talk-Classical, Classical Music Mayhem, Magle International.
The bans have all taken place over the last 3 years. At each of these Forums, he was given a generous opportunity to voice his opinions, but so weird and unconvincing were his views that he found hardly any support for them.
Consistently he provided no convincing questions put to him. Rather than attempt to justify his own assertions his standard tactic was to ask his questioners to justify their faith that Mozart was not a fraud!
When defeated on one topic he would simply raise a new thread on some other aspect. He would also set about wrecking other members' innocent threads on Mozart, by posting some negative comment alleging that the work in question was not written by Mozart. All this nonsense caused such mayhem that it was found that the only way to shut him up was to ban him.
Robert Newman

Leeds, UK

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#2
May 7, 2009
 
XAB wants you to believe Mozart is a musical superman. So do the tourist industry, the chocolate industry and the mortgage paying teachers of music history, almost without exception. Mozart is of course an icon. In plain fact, no famous composer in the entire history of western music has been more falsely attributed and exaggerated than W.A. Mozart. This is no longer an opinion but a plain, verifiable and indisputable fact. One recognised and admitted by the most conservative Mozart worshippers themselves.

Do turkeys vote for Christmas ? Nor do the dogmatists of musicology and of propaganda want you to judge the case fairly. I strongly recommend that readers of this post listen to this interview on Red Ice radio. So that Mozart studies is not a one-sided business, and so that the study of Mozart finally, at last, is examined (like any other science) from both sides. Who could possibly object to this request. The fact that XAB has nothing to say of the contents of the Red Ice programme itself speaks rather loudly for itself. We laugh at such scarecrow technqiues. Please hear the programme for yourself.

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2009/03m...

Yours sincerely

Robert Newman
XAB

Worcester, UK

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#3
May 7, 2009
 
In response to Robert Newman, all I would say is that his rants regarding Mozart (and Haydn too) are all BS and cannot be substantiated anywhere. He has no book, but merely talks about writing one, and there isn't one single source that will actually substantiate his claims and mention that they support Robert Newman (by name) and his beliefs.

Robert Newman was banned from the following major classicl music forums:

Mozart Forum
Beethoven Reference Site
Classical Music Guide
Talk-Classical
Classical Music Mayhem
Magle International

On each Board he was allowed a long run for his money but singularly failed to win any material support.

The only major classical music Board he hasn't tried to offer his loony views is Good Music Guide (GMG), most probably because he knows that that he would be savaged to pieces in minutes by the canny bunch on there.

Come on Robert, let's see you try to convince folk on GMG, instead of farting around on places like this.
Robert Newman

Leeds, UK

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#4
May 7, 2009
 
In response to XAB, you see, once again, that he cannot make a single comment on the recent Red Ice Broadcast. Not a single word on what was a 2 hour interview on the subject of Mozart, his alleged talents, his supposed career, or the massive, grotesque status that he enjoys today within even musicology. Now this is starting to be a little suspicious, don't you think ? After all, what body of studies is it which is never cross-examined ? What body of studies bans those who make extensive research on the subject, and this over close to 15 years ? The subject of Mozart is, of course, like that of an icon, one of those statues that surround Easter Island. A statue which literally dominates the musical landscape and whose status can never be questioned or rejected. But that's exactly the situation with the multi-million dollar industry that is 'Amadeus'. Why, even that movie was promoted with the well known statement 'Everything you've heard is true'. What is this but downright fraud ? The plain fact of the matter is that the price of the Mozart myth is the suppression of the lives and works of many, many other composers. Let me mention just a few of many. Josef Myslivececk, Vanhal, Cartellieri, Andrea Luchesi, Josef Fiala, and literally dozens of other names virtually unknown today. And it includes literally dozens of works which the Mozart industry has falsely published and performed in 'Mozart's' name. I dare to suggest that these facts are not convenient, that they fly in the face of the secular religion that is 'Mozart' and that this explains why XAB and others like him have no specific example to give you of their case. Here, in this grotesque and fictitious industry is the real control of music, the music industry, performance, and even of culture itself, masquerading as 'culture' but, in fact, resistant to criticism and exposure of its grotesque, fantastic, fabulous fairy story.

To be banned from music forums is, perhaps, to shatter the myths, or to try to discuss them in detail. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, do they ?

Mozart Forum
Beethoven Reference Site
Classical Music Guide
Talk-Classical
Classical Music Mayhem
Magle International

On each Board he was allowed a long run for his money but singularly failed to win any material support.

He suggests that I join him on GMG and predicts that he and his colleagues will quickly show this is wrong. Well, I've been studying this subject now for over 15 years. Have visited dozens of libraries and archives. Have discussed this subject with many, many musicologists in detail. Let me give just a few examples. Two musicologists in Italy (with whom I co-operated in 2008) on the subject of the real history of the opera 'Le Nozze di Figaro', available on the internet as 'Figaro - L'Aria della Contessa' and using images from the music score of 1786 - these almost never studied by the so-called 'experts'. Over and over again the facts tell a different story of Mozart. And it's time that people knew it.
XAB

Worcester, UK

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#5
May 7, 2009
 
What a laugh. Newman is now trying to turn his being banned from 6 of the top classical music forums over the past 3 years into some kind of virtue!

These forums comprise members from all walks of life, who share a common interest in classical music, and do not comprise solely people with any special axes to grind in support of the conventional view of Mozart. People of various backgrounds listened to Newman's views, asked questions, and found his arguments to be nonsensical and without foundation. The same pattern of events happened time and time again, on each of the various forums, on all sorts of different aspects of the subject. The conclusion was always the same, namely that Newman failed to convince anyone. All he did was wriggle and dodge the many awkward questions put to him. He became such a thorough nuisance to the sites that the Moderators had no choice but to ban him.

As for the "research" on Le Nozze referred to by Newman in his last paragraph, this was debated at great length on the Classical Music Mayhem forum during 2008. The book of which was a co-author with Bianchini and Trombetta was generally considered to be the most contrived dribble anyone had ever laid their eyes upon. This is not surprising bearing in mind that no legitimate musicologist has ever looked twice or lent any credence to their ideas.

So, come on Robert, let's see you sign up at GMG, rather than conduct this discussion any further here. For readers who may not be aware of the GMG, it is one of the best known classical music forums (for discussion, recommendations, etc) on the internet. It isnít the most popular but itís near the top. The top-rated forum (as per Google) is Talk-Classical but Newman was banned from there last year for various misdemeanours.

I do hope the Swedish radio guy reads this, so that he can see what a complete con he has been subjected to in the daft interviews.
Robert Newman

Leeds, UK

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#6
May 7, 2009
 
XAB,

At the third time of asking, you still haven't told us what was wrong with the 2 Hour interview on Mozart of Red Ice. Instead of heaping insult on insult the plain fact is that music forums on the internet are mostly formed of members who know little more than the labels on classical CD's. And whose 'experts' are there to keep the status quo on those rare occasions when the subject of the Mozart myth is questioned in real detail. Frankly, this is plain fact.

For the information of general readers, Luca Bianchini and Anna Trombetta (mentioned above) are two Italian musicologists who have decades of experience between them on operas of the 18th century. As any fair person will agree. But the Mozartean can't give credit to anything which challenges his paradigm. He never grows up, you see, and though his fables are more full of holes than a string vest he has faith in his secular religion, the musical Superman from Salzburg. Tell him that dozens, even hundreds of 'Mozart' works were not, actually, by the 'wunderkind' and he goes in to a huff - not speaking to you for days. And, like what happened to Socrates, he will give you a glass of poison for having dared to question the icons of the state. There is in fact nothing of the Mozart myth which an aspiring musician can learn from this nonsense. Why, Mozart never went to school in his entire life and was at no point under a music teacher during his entire life. So great was the fakery and exaggeration that the fraternities and later propagandists couldn't produce a definitive list of 'his' works for over half a century after his death. This is understood within the context of liars such as the first two biographers, Niemetscheck of Prague (who never once met Mozart) and his second wife, whom German newspaper publishers exposed for having bought music from other composers, twice, within a year or two of Mozart's death. The size and scale of this farrago of lies is testimony to the gullibility of the average music lover and the sheer dominance of cultic 'musicology'(so-called) which, at no time, admits to its own track record and to the sheer scale of its grotesque inventions.

Fortunately, the findings of impartial/objective researchers have started exposing this reality for the general public to appreciate. And this new world of having more than one point of view enrages the 'conservatives' of the Mozart industry.

Well, there it is folks. Instead of a one-dimensional universe try hearing the other side of the story. You will be pleased to learn that falsehood, even at a corporate, wholesale level must always collapse, even in the rarified world of 'culture'(so-called).
Gruenbaum

Hanover, Germany

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#7
May 14, 2009
 
XAB wrote:
This guy Robert Newman has been banned from all the main classical musical discussion Forums for peddling disruptive and ludicrous theses that Mozart was a complete fraud. These Forums are all the big ones: Mozart Forum, Beethoven Reference Site, CMG, Talk-Classical, Classical Music Mayhem, Magle International.
The bans have all taken place over the last 3 years. At each of these Forums, he was given a generous opportunity to voice his opinions, but so weird and unconvincing were his views that he found hardly any support for them.
Consistently he provided no convincing questions put to him. Rather than attempt to justify his own assertions his standard tactic was to ask his questioners to justify their faith that Mozart was not a fraud!
When defeated on one topic he would simply raise a new thread on some other aspect. He would also set about wrecking other members' innocent threads on Mozart, by posting some negative comment alleging that the work in question was not written by Mozart. All this nonsense caused such mayhem that it was found that the only way to shut him up was to ban him.
I have to disagree with the author of this post.
While I've not read each and every Newman post concerning Mozart, I have nonetheless read some.
In all those posts of his which I've happened upon, he offered evidence to back up his assertions. Similarly, he treated other forum members relatively cordially; he was never obnoxious. I see no reason why his behavior and research methods should have gotten him banned from any forum.
However, while I might not agree with all his theories, I nonetheless suspect that the reason most Mozart scholars are unwilling to pay Newman and the evidence he provides any consideration relates back to the fact that he challenges their preconditioned assertions.
Most individuals -including scholars- would rather ignore evidence contrary to their preconceived beliefs, even if it means by doing so they condemn themselves to believing incorrect information.
Fin

Burton-on-trent, UK

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#8
May 18, 2009
 
Gruenbaum wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to disagree with the author of this post.
While I've not read each and every Newman post concerning Mozart, I have nonetheless read some.
In all those posts of his which I've happened upon, he offered evidence to back up his assertions. Similarly, he treated other forum members relatively cordially; he was never obnoxious. I see no reason why his behavior and research methods should have gotten him banned from any forum.
However, while I might not agree with all his theories, I nonetheless suspect that the reason most Mozart scholars are unwilling to pay Newman and the evidence he provides any consideration relates back to the fact that he challenges their preconditioned assertions.
Most individuals -including scholars- would rather ignore evidence contrary to their preconceived beliefs, even if it means by doing so they condemn themselves to believing incorrect information.
Ditto.
Bloggs

London, UK

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#9
May 21, 2009
 
I agree fully with XAB that Newman is a joke.

Newman has lately signed up at GMG (which is one of the biggest classical music forums on the Net) and the locals are showing utter contempt for him and his loony views.

So,Grenbaum and Fin, it's maybe time for you two to get wised up by following the latest saga on GMG. You had better hurry as he wont't last long there. This of course very generously assumes that you aren't a couple of Newman's stooges or alter egos.
Nosher

London, UK

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#10
May 22, 2009
 
Just had a read of this thread. I've not come across any of this before. Sounds weird to me that over 200 years since Mozart's death someone now reckons all his accredited major works were written by other people. I'm looking at the GMG discussion to see what the reaction is but not a lot seems to be happening. It would seem that Mr Newman has been there before and has returned but no-one seems to want him back.
Fin

Burton-on-trent, UK

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#11
May 22, 2009
 

Judged:

1

Bloggs wrote:
I agree fully with XAB that Newman is a joke.
Newman has lately signed up at GMG (which is one of the biggest classical music forums on the Net) and the locals are showing utter contempt for him and his loony views.
So,Grenbaum and Fin, it's maybe time for you two to get wised up by following the latest saga on GMG. You had better hurry as he wont't last long there. This of course very generously assumes that you aren't a couple of Newman's stooges or alter egos.
I am certainly NOT a 'Newman stooge' or his 'aler ego'. Having read many of the posts, and although I don't entirely agree with Mr Newman, I find it amazing you engage yourselves in mud-slinging and personalised insults. just like the many bully-boys of these various music forums. What I don't understand is why the existance of a different view on Mozart draws such venom from people whose entire posts are filled with abuse? Why are you so enraged over some cock eyed composer who died over 200 years ago? The tale-telling nature of such posts(about how many forums Mr Newman has been banned from, etc. etc - many at the hands of the same sort of people)hardly justify your view he's a lunatic.
Bloggs

Bath, UK

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#12
Jul 25, 2009
 
Further to my post of 21 May, Newman has been the subject of so much derision at the GMG Forum("Good Music guide") that it is embarrassing for the guy. There isn't any support whatsoever for his loony views about Mozart's alleged fakery.

It turns out that Newman believes in all manner of other "conspiracies", and the locals on GMG are having a field day taking the mickey. Even the "moderators" join in the mockery.

One of the main themes is the challenge from various members regarding Newman's alleged music training credentials. Newman says that he was trained in music, but this has been questioned head-on by several members asking him to name his teachers/colleges etc. Newman hasn't answered.

Really, you guys who think that Newman has an ounce of credibility would be utterly shocked if you took the trouble to scan the GMG site. Simply look up "robnewman" under the list of members (you have to join to do this)and follow the threads. As you will see they all treat him like a huge joke.

I hope the Swedish radio guy who did the interview reads this and feels utterly mortified by being host to Newman's loony views.
Robert Newman

Leeds, UK

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#13
Jul 25, 2009
 
Bloggs is doing it again !

On this thread he challenged me to join a music forum of his choosing. Most members of which are juveniles and have never read anything of Mozart. See their posts. They're childish. On the rare occasions where the discussion gets to Mozart they are utterly out of their depth.

The basic problem is this. These guys don't even know their own propaganda. They've read almost nothing. They have certainly never read a book which is critical of the Mozart myth. And this Mozart industry is simply not used to cross-examination. It's hilarious.

Take any area of academic study. You will find a process going on which challenges convention. Whether its history, science, or any other area of study. But this is lacking completely in the giant movie business industry that is 'Mozart'. We have one and only one 'official' version of his life and career. This presided over by the high priests of what has become a secular religion. It's truly laughable. No criticism is allowed. Not even when the critism comes from their own published sources. This is mythology, plain and simple.

Mozart studied music at NO TIME in his entire life. He never went to school ever in his entire life. The works of his childhood are riddled with hundreds of works he never wrote - this even recognised by the priests of the Mozart industry. The scam continued into his youth. And it accelerated in his final 10 years, spent in Vienna. And it didn't stop there. It continued with hundreds and hundreds of works being published in his name that he never wrote. There is very little, in fact, of this myth that can survive even basic cross-examination.

The earliest biographies draw on information so one-sided that it's hilarious. They also filled with lies and untruths, exaggerations and downright falsehoods.

Musicology merged with corporate/commerical interests and has sanctioned this industry of buffoonery at the expense of many, many musicians whose names are hardly known today. Such is the price of the Mozart myth. A selfish, dogmatic industry which has ripped out the entire context of the times in which Mozart lived and worked for a story that has mass appeal but virtually no factual basis.

The career of Mozart was truly 'manufatured' by the elites and patrons of the late Holy Roman Empire. To dominate music, performance, publishing and culture. So says the evidence and it cannot be denied.

So what do these 'clones' of the dogma do ? They attack the messenger. Never, at any time, admitting the mountain of lies, forgeries and fakery that makes up this fairy story.

Read both sides. And form your own considered judgement. The corruption of culture is as real as we find in politics, banking, politics or any other sphere of human activity.

We don't want a 200 year old fairy story, which relies on the suppression of historical facts. Hear the other side. And end this tyranny of musicology dominated by the icons of the Mozart industry.

Bloggs

Bath, UK

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#14
Jul 25, 2009
 
That's a pretty impressive response time to my last post. I must admit that I thought my post would linger for weeks before anyone read it.

From your response, your head is clearly still up in the clouds somewhere, completely oblivious of the very obvious fact that you have persuaded no one on GMG of your claims about the alleged fakery of Mozart.

You haven't made much here, or on GMG, about your equally silly claim that Joseph Haydn was also a big fake, and had been at it for much longer than Mozart. Perhaps you realise that this would come over as an even more ludicrous proposition. But, folks, I can assure you that this is exactly what Newman believes.

Now, Mr Newman, can you tell me why it is that Joseph Haydn, such a religious man, in full sight of his employer and musical colleagues at Esterhazy, for so many years, managed to get away with the massive fraud you accuse him of, tht he was a musical buffon and that Andrea Luchesi wrote many of his symphonies?

Another question. Now that I have seeb it raised on GMG, I am very intrigued about your formal musical education. Can you please enlighten me as to the school or college at which you say you received your musical education. On the GMG forum you said it was the "Royal Music School". Is that correct? If so, where is this School, what were the dates when you were a student there, and who was the Principal at the time?
Robert Newman

Leeds, UK

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#15
Jul 26, 2009
 
I am glad you are impressed.

Awfully sorry to remind you, but the subject under discussion here is the life, career and musical status of Mozart. I'd love to talk about myself, to know your real name, your hobbies, etc. etc. but really, that's silly.

The GMG Forum seems to be populated by high school kids who have never read a Mozart biography, let alone a publication which criticises the long and fraudulent history of the Mozart industry. For several weeks I have been telling them over and over again to post on the subject of the thread. And they seem unable to do even that. As you can see. The last count is 33 requests, and still counting. It's a true picture of the dumbing down of culture and of music history.

Nor is this thread on Josef Haydn, although his employer himself was a major player in the fakery that underpins the creation of the Weiner Klassik. Esterhazy. Haydn was a 'religious' man but, so what, so was Erasmus, and so was the man who lit the fire at the burning of Joan of Arc. What does that mean ? The man who gave vinegar to Christ on the cross was religious too. So was the High Priest, Caiphas. Again, what does religiosity prove ? Nothing, except that it is the cover for a multitude of iniquities.

Again, your education is of no interest to me. If a person comes to me with a report I base it on the verifiable evidence that is found to support it. Whether he is a child reporting a house fire or a doctor treating a patient. So education achieves nothing unless, of course, we are willing to examine it in the light of the evidence. And evidence is the issue. Nothing else. I hope you can learn this. So that we don't waste lots of time. I've studied the subject of Mozart in great detail. And I've met many people who had knowledge I do not have plus many who are fools who never examined their own dogmas. Such is life.

Anyway, thanks for the message. I recommend listeners to hear both sides of the Mozart industry propaganda and am grateful that you are part of this process that brings the attention of it to a wider reading public.

Robert Newman
Bloggs

Bath, UK

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#16
Jul 26, 2009
 
Which Music School did you attend? Where is it? What dates were you there? Who was the Principal of the School at the time you were there? What music qualifications did you obtain?
Robert Newman

Leeds, UK

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#17
Jul 28, 2009
 
Bloggs,

Which music school did YOU attend ? Where is it ? What dates were you there ? Who was the Principal of the School at the time you were there ? What music qualifications did you obtain ? And how long before we know your real name ?

Even more relevant -

Which Music School did Mozart attend ?

Where ?

What dates was he a pupil there ?

Who was the Principal of the School when he was there ?

What musical qualifications did he obtain ?

Since the subject of this thread is Mozart let's start with that. Any answers yet ?
Bloggs

Bath, UK

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#18
Jul 28, 2009
 
But I haven't made any claims about my music qualifications, like you have.

Your "qualifications" appear on the "Italian Opera" website where there is a photo of you and a short biography stating that you were a pupil at the "Royal School of Music", London between 1970-74. http://www.italianopera.org/aboutE.html

Unfortunately, there is no such School. So it might appear that you are you telling porkies, unless you can clarify the position. All you have to do is state whether or not the details about your musical education as set out above correct? This ought to be a straightforward matter, but of course you are an expert at dodging pertinent questions, so I guess you won't answer.

The same question was asked of you repeatedly on the GMG Forum where this discrepancy was first observed. You failed to answer.

I trust that other readers will take note.
Bloggs

Bath, UK

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#19
Jul 28, 2009
 
Further to my post immediately above, here is a link to the thread on the GMG Forum seeking clarification of Mr Newman's music education:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/ind...

What a laugh.
Bloggs

Bath, UK

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#20
Jul 28, 2009
 
So in summary, we have in the person of Robert Newman someone who made his main theme on the GMG classical music Forum (which is one of the biggest and most noteworthy of its type on the Internet)that W A Mozart allegedly had no music qualifications or proper training.

You can read all about it here:http://www.good-music-gui de.com/community/index.php/top ic,10960.0.html

Robert Newman's debut is at post # 50 on page 3.

Now, isn't it amazing that Newman himself is unable or unwilling to confirm his own music qualifications?

Dear oh dear.

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