SWAT members call for school levy defeat

SWAT members call for school levy defeat

There are 73 comments on the ThisWeek Community Newspapers story from Jul 22, 2009, titled SWAT members call for school levy defeat. In it, ThisWeek Community Newspapers reports that:

Alluding to the story of Moses guiding the Israelites to Canaan in Old Testament scripture, Terry Jones called South-Western Alternatives to Taxes members to action during a meeting July 16.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at ThisWeek Community Newspapers.

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All talk

Grove City, OH

#1 Jul 22, 2009
Re: Van Order was encouraged to run for school board. "I would be muzzled," he said. "Also, I don't think the problem can be fixed at that level."

Apparently, one person *can't* make a difference. Or doesn't want to, at least not by attempting to put himself in the "hot seat." It is always easier to criticize than to assume responsibility...heck, I could be accused of doing so right now. Yet it is his right to simply speak out rather than seek to uproot the establishment he rails against. It is also *my* right to question this seeming disparity. I might also wonder at Mr. Jones' wisdom at drawing an Old Testament analogy to a school operating levy, but whatever works for him....

Those who oppose the levy make many valid points, including: "It's OK to vote 'no.'" Absolutely true. It's part of what this country is all about. You don't even have to have a reason to vote "no"...or "yes"...though I would prefer you did. I also share some of the questions this group has voiced about spending, about priorities...and about transparency: why did the board not seek an outside opinion (from the state auditor's office) until the results would arrive after the vote? I don't believe anyone is hiding anything, but some tangible results before the election might have helped convince voters the district is serious about responsible spending.

Still, I plan to vote for the levy. I have no quarrel with anyone who plans to vote against, I don't consider anyone "anti kid"; after all, each of us is exercising our right to vote, to choose. Current state law dictates that this is how school districts can approach its residents for operating funds; we retain the voice to decide whether SWCS deserves our tax dollars or not...or whether we can even afford it. I stop well short of saying the administration is fiscally irresponsible; I believe if you look around, it is quite easy to find any number of established institutions, both public and private, that are short of cash right now. Does this alone give the administration a "pass"? No - but I also believe the people who serve are, for the most part, trying to do the best they can in a difficult situation and may in fact benefit from the auditor's report due later this year.

That's just me. Your story is different. Vote what you believe, without guilt. I would only ask this: never succumb to the convenient excuse, "I don't think the problem can be fixed at that level." Change can, and often does, start with one person. It can start with your vote, but certainly need not end there.
gc resident

Grove City, OH

#2 Jul 23, 2009
i have seen the problem cant be fixed at the school board level several times in these posts also. that is the lamest excuse since the dog ate my homework routine. the board hasnt even came up with any other options other than the levy they want. hers a few ideas, 1-ask the yes voters for donations, i am a no voter but would gladly donate for an athletics/busing fund. i seen someone had this idea before, $500 x 10,000 yes voes = $5,000,000 + any business donations or possible no voters who feel the way i do, 2-ask for a split levy to include a 1/2% income tax and a 3 mil operating levy, appease both sides of the arguements with this idea. 3-make concessions in admin jobs and teachers unions, not too deep mind you but about the only people not making any concessions other than a pay freeze for a year are the people eating up 85% of the budget to start. some of you may think that these are off the wall ideas, but they may get some people brainstorming and actually think of some ideas. you will be surprised to find what peple could do if they pull together, provided they check the politics at the door, unlike our gov't.
To much

Columbus, OH

#3 Jul 23, 2009
There is a lot the board could do. I don't think it's unreasonable to demand they do it. It's their job. Heck have one of the assistant to the assistant-vice-assistant, assistant-assistant that's making 6 figures come back from the golf course and find a way to save something.
SWCS parent

United States

#4 Jul 23, 2009
Terry Jones and Van Order again pushing the issue to the state as their solution. While I believe the state has an obligation to ensure strong education in the state, SWAT brings no real solution to the problem as is usually the case with this group.

Bring me a solution or even an attempt at a solution and I'll listen, but in the meantime, I have no choice but to vote "yes". I will be active going forward to eliminate the current leadership in my community at all levels, but won't make the children suffer until the adults start to act like adults.

I listen to citizens all day talk about not voting for the levy for this and that reason, but when Aug. 4 comes and goes those people will go back to their little lives making no attempt to actually involve themselves in effecting change. We won't see them again until the next levy. You can't most of these people involved in PTA let alone actually working for change!

IT'S TIME TO TAKE OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM BACK. WE ARE THE EMPLOYERS AND WE NEED TO BAN TOGETHER FOR REAL CHANGE.
Bob Jones

Columbus, OH

#5 Jul 23, 2009
With all due respect, SWCS parent is a perfect example of the PROBLEM.

You are saying the system needs changed. You don't have a solution.
So when somebody else points out things need changed and tell you they feel the way to FORCE change is to stop increasing funding, you belittle them and demand they come up with a solution that you can't find?

Is that logical to you?

Fund it? Even though it's broke? Demand those who won't fix it even though you can't? That's America I guess: demand other people pay for and fix your problem.

The bottom line is that voting yes changes nothing. Does it help the kids have sports today? I guess (though again that is the boards choice not the voters). But it simply pushes the problem off on the next group of kids. How's that help anything?

Are we to just give in to the blackmail forever? Never to stand up and say "enough!" Never to DEMAND change? Always accept a broke system?

I think not. You are 100% right!
SWCS parent wrote:
IT'S TIME TO TAKE OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM BACK. WE ARE THE EMPLOYERS AND WE NEED TO BAN TOGETHER FOR REAL CHANGE.
Vote NO! Force the change we demand and need now. Things are only getting worse!
Parent who cares

Columbus, OH

#6 Jul 23, 2009
I only hope that when Terry Jones and Frederic Vanorder are in need of some sort of funding to be passed such as medicare or nursing home funding that they desperately need that the kids that are suffering from their agenda remember their negativity and crusade to take their futures away from them. Maybe a future nurse who had to go to a second rate school and work 2 jobs while going to school because her scholarship opportunities were taken away during this chaos will someday get the opportunity to meet them first hand. I truly believe in Karma and this will come back on them. None of us want to pay more in taxes but launching a crusade against the kids of our wonderful community is just wrong.
Bob Jones

Columbus, OH

#7 Jul 23, 2009
I had no idea Either of those men were on the School Board?
Why are you blaming people who did not make the decision to cut extras but instead pay more and more to the administrators, not ask for real sacrifices from the Unions or even let the families of the district raise the money themselves?

The attacks just keep ignoring reality: The SCHOOL BOARD CHOOSE the cuts. THEY CHOOSE to not even allow the kids to TRY to raise money so that they can USE them as blackmail to get their cash.

Don't blame people who stand up to the bullies. Blame the board, the government or the people who made the mess and refuse to fix it.
School board are sheep

Grove City, OH

#8 Jul 23, 2009
The board just votes on recommendations from Wise. Vote is 5-0 every time in favor of Wise(except once when Reisling voted no against the policy to sign up ahead of time to speak at board meetings).
Bob Jones wrote:
I had no idea Either of those men were on the School Board?
Why are you blaming people who did not make the decision to cut extras but instead pay more and more to the administrators, not ask for real sacrifices from the Unions or even let the families of the district raise the money themselves?
The attacks just keep ignoring reality: The SCHOOL BOARD CHOOSE the cuts. THEY CHOOSE to not even allow the kids to TRY to raise money so that they can USE them as blackmail to get their cash.
Don't blame people who stand up to the bullies. Blame the board, the government or the people who made the mess and refuse to fix it.
Bob Jones

Columbus, OH

#9 Jul 24, 2009
That doesn't take away the fact it is their fault. Wise is to blame as well. The Board hired, keeps and goes along. That's their decision.
Tired of being fed junk

Grove City, OH

#11 Jul 29, 2009
The school suprentendent had an on-line chat the other day. We needed to typw our questions to him and send them to a moderator who would pass them on to supretendent "what ever his name is." Well none of my questions came up on the screen because they were not part of the "talking points" memo the moderator was working from. I have never, in my life, heard such garbage from a school board member. That even was enough to make me vote NO on Tuesday.
Bob Jones

Columbus, OH

#12 Jul 29, 2009
Yea I sent several questions as well. I do imagine they got a billion. I also agree he didn't answer any questions that didn't allow a very set, easy answer.
Too many Jones in SWCS

Columbus, OH

#13 Jul 29, 2009
You and Terry need to go away. I agree that your negative information is very misleading to voters. Karma.....Karma.
Bob Jones wrote:
Yea I sent several questions as well. I do imagine they got a billion. I also agree he didn't answer any questions that didn't allow a very set, easy answer.
Bob Jones

Columbus, OH

#14 Jul 30, 2009
Again give us a reason to vote for the levy that does not include blackmail or personal attacks. I keep asking this and not getting any response.

The reason? I'm not sure there actually is one!

Is Terry Jones selective in his stats? You betcha. Is the board? You betcha!(Did you read the financial projection that is the basis for the levy? It's full of questionable assumptions!)

But rather you think Terry Jones is the smartest man in the world or completely wrong, why would that influence your own position? Look at all the facts yourself and make your own decision.

Interesting that those that are against the levy feel you should look into it yourself while those who are for it feel you should just attack people.
Danno From Powell

Lancaster, OH

#15 Jul 30, 2009
I find it's great not all individuals will let the teacher's unions run their hands up the back of the school board and let them run it.

The reason the "regular man or lady" cannot come up with enough money to make a successful school board run is because the unions will dump money into the candidates who will back their position of more money for the teachers.

Funny thing I've noticed is the pressure on charter schools to be accountable for not only how they spend their money, they also are expected to be more highly accountable for their test scores.

If this same bar was applied to the public education system not one of these buildings would be open. If school board members and other school district employees where held to a criminal standard of their failures things would be very different.

Remember the taxpayers of the school district are the Barons and the employees are their subjects. It's time this is kept in the proper perspective.
Exactly

Columbus, OH

#16 Jul 30, 2009
It's the dog wagging the tail for far too long!
Time for the public to take back the schools from the Unions and special interests!
Doug Seagle

Columbus, OH

#17 Jul 30, 2009
Bob Jones wrote:
Again give us a reason to vote for the levy that does not include blackmail or personal attacks. I keep asking this and not getting any response.
The reason? I'm not sure there actually is one!
Is Terry Jones selective in his stats? You betcha. Is the board? You betcha!(Did you read the financial projection that is the basis for the levy? It's full of questionable assumptions!)
But rather you think Terry Jones is the smartest man in the world or completely wrong, why would that influence your own position? Look at all the facts yourself and make your own decision.
Interesting that those that are against the levy feel you should look into it yourself while those who are for it feel you should just attack people.
How many students are in SWCS?? Is this not enough reasons?$18M in cuts, 300 jobs.....Please Bob, we the voters need to stop the bleeding and stabalize the situation before we can begin to operate and make corrections. You just want the voters to cut the legs out and forget about the true task. Vote yes, make a difference for our community. Make a difference for these kids. They rely on us to take care of them, yet some people seem to forget the folks who took care of them in the past.Schools have always been funded by the community, step up Bob!

Since: Jul 09

Columbus, Ohio

#18 Jul 30, 2009
Tired of being fed junk wrote:
The school suprentendent had an on-line chat the other day. We needed to typw our questions to him and send them to a moderator who would pass them on to supretendent "what ever his name is." Well none of my questions came up on the screen because they were not part of the "talking points" memo the moderator was working from. I have never, in my life, heard such garbage from a school board member. That even was enough to make me vote NO on Tuesday.
I too submitted 4-5 questions - NONE were responded to. They only answered the "softball""slow pitch" questions that served their purposes. VOTE NO!
Bob Jones

Columbus, OH

#19 Jul 31, 2009
Doug Seagle wrote:

How many students are in SWCS?? Is this not enough reasons?
No. It's not. And by that I mean it has nothing to do with the kids. The board gets more and more money and spends more and more wastefull. More money will not result in any imporvements. We have seen that again and again for decades. This is the "tug at the heartstrings" rhetoric to avoid dealing with the cold hard facts: more money will not help anything.
Doug Seagle wrote:

$18M in cuts, 300 jobs.....Please Bob, we the voters need to stop the bleeding and stabalize the situation before we can begin to operate and make corrections.
The 18 million was obvioulsy waste. They (the BOE) still believes there are millions of dollars of waste (their justification for the new audit) AND there are other things besides a levy that can be done including self funding of extras and other things like the lunch program I've mentioned.
Doug Seagle wrote:

You just want the voters to cut the legs out and forget about the true task.
Unfortunatley I think the BOE and administration has forgotten the "true task" long ago. They are more about their pockets than the kids. That's clear in their proposed cuts.

Doug Seagle wrote:
Vote yes, make a difference for our community. Make a difference for these kids.
Unfortunately I don't believe, and I don't think even you believe, that voting yes on this levy WILL, in factm make a difference for these kids. It will allow teachers to get raises and administrators to get raises and create new positions for more and more administrators. More overhead. Nothing more for the kids. Until 2010 when they blackmail us agian.
Doug Seagle wrote:
They rely on us to take care of them, yet some people seem to forget the folks who took care of them in the past.Schools have always been funded by the community, step up Bob!
I agree. The BOE has let us down. The increases in what they pay everyone, the number of administrators. The new ways to waste money. It is time to "step up" and FORCE a change by saying "NO!" to the blackmail!
It's going to happen. It's a matter of rather it happens today or the next group of kids. But at some point we have to say no.

But I will agree with you on one point: VOTE.
Let YOUR voice be heard rather you are voting yes or no.
SWS

Columbus, OH

#20 Jul 31, 2009
[Bill Wise]
SWCS has a much lower administrator-to-student ratio than the state average. We spend below the state average on adminstrative costs. The 3 assistant principals that we have at our high schools align with most districts for the number of students in those buildings. The duties and responsibilities for these individuals are extensive. They are responsible for discipline, curriculum, safety, and many of the day-to-day operations of the buildings, just to name a few.

Apparently the discipline problem is the cause for the many ASSISTANTS please. Someone is not doing there JOB !!. Maybe the district needs to focus on better teaching and caring about the student and EARN there supposed low income HAHA (which they make more than me). If they are worried about raises maybe they should have picked a profession other than this. This is suppose to be a profession of EDUCATION not money. Building extravagant schools that suck up heat and air is ridiculous; you should have had them built to teach not comfort. VOTE NO NO NO NO
doug seagle

Columbus, OH

#21 Jul 31, 2009
BOb.....sorry, We'll just have to agree to disagree. You will never change your mind, its not about the children...I think it most certainly is about our children. This levy concerns them, these teachers interact with our kids daily for 9 months out of the year. If this levy is to pay the teachers and staff at my childrens school, then so be it. I know the staff that has worked with my children have been fantastic.My children do well because their teachers push them and challenge them .look at test scores and results all you want, that has something to do with kids parents, not just the teachers.So YES...this levy does involve our children!! You are wrong, and you are trying to make this out as if they are not part of this

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