SWAT makes final call to action in final weeks before South-Wes...

Alluding to the story of Moses guiding the Israelites to Canaan in Old Testament scripture, Terry Jones called South-Western Alternatives to Taxes members to action during a meeting July 16. Full Story
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mkt1nw

AOL

#1 Jul 17, 2009
The comment that teachers and administrators mak4e more money than residents of the district is ignorant. If the residents of the district had bachelor's degrees and in most cases, Master's degrees, then they would deserve more pay as well. I invite these residents to step into an educators shoes for one week and see how it feels.
Mickey

Debary, FL

#2 Jul 18, 2009
Wow, almost 20 members!?!?
GC Wolf

United States

#3 Jul 18, 2009
Wow - a real big turnout to hear Terry Jones' "sermon"! Boy, he sees himself as all manner of biblical hero, doesn't he? He is downright delusional.

I saw where someone said that Terry Jones wants teachers to make about the equivalent of the Wal-Mart greeter. Nothing against the Wal-Mart greeter - I like a smile and a nice hello as much as the next person - but not exactly shaping lives there. So, yeah, Terry - that sounds about right (duh).

I would like to know Terry's educational background. Sounds like it's fair to surmise that he wasn't exactly an overachiever. Terry, if you really only do make $22K a year, do you think there's a reason for that? My niece who works at Big Lots makes more than that. Oh, but that's right, teachers, who have at the minimum a bachelor's degree and usually a master's and other graduate degrees - they should not make more than those who never got through college.

Anyone who thinks it's that easy - try it for a week. The teachers I know are friggin' saints to put up with the crap that most parents never correct at home. They also spend untold sums of money out of their own pockets to fill in the gap of bad or neglectful parenting. My friend whose dad is a teacher told me that he found out by accident that his dad provides lunch to several students a day - every day. When my friend asked his dad about it, his dad wouldn't even discuss it with him and just said, "Most of do what needs to be done".

I can't stand to see Terry Jones and his ilk talk about teachers this way. My parents and people of their era would probably be rolling over in their graves if they heard this kind of talk. Maybe there was a reason we respected teachers more back in the day - BECAUSE OUR PARENTS DID! Nowadays parents just want to push their responsibilities off on the school and then complain when the school doesn't do quite as well as what they themselves should be doing.

And Fred Van Order should be ashamed of himself. I am so glad he does not run the vacation bible school at a large local church any more. That was embarrassing for those of us who attended there. His pretending he cared about kids was kind of sickening.
perplexed

Grove City, OH

#4 Jul 19, 2009
don't blame the teachers please. they do so much and don't make a lot of money. blame the school board and the state legislature. that is where it gets fixed. don't really think we should pass the levy either for lots of reasons but this is nonsense.
TJ_B

Columbus, OH

#5 Jul 19, 2009
You can see my response to this issue on the message boards from other articles, but I want to make sure the point is seen by many so here it is again.

Terry, it is fantastic to see that you are so well versed in facts and figures. Great job doing your homework and researching this information! I wonder who you could thank? Hmmmm... let's see. Well since you had to have gone to school, I bet you can thank a teacher for all of the abilities you have for research, analysis, reading, math, etc.! I have to agree with you that right now everyone's economic situation is very tight at a personal, regional, state, and federal level. It is true that the mean household income of a SWCS resident is $57,355, but proportionally, SWCS pays $9,366 per student. If you look at the information provided on the per student spending and mean household incomes of surrounding communities, SWCS is right in line if not lower than others.

People against the levy argue that the money spent on teachers and administration is not reflected in the Ohio School's report card. First I direct you to look at the fact that for the past 10 years, SWCS teachers have consistently been paid lower than surrounding school districts. It might be also be helpful if you look at how that data is collected for the state report cards. The report card is based solely on student performance on federally mandated achievement tests based on curriculum standards. Studies throughout our country have proven that these tests are biased, do not accurately look at individual student and community needs, and are consistently a misrepresentation of student learning. Please refer to Ken Jones' writing "A Balanced School Accountability Model: An Alternative to High Stakes Testing."
(continued in following post)
TJ_B

Columbus, OH

#6 Jul 19, 2009
Seeing that you are a knowledgeable person as are many of the people who live in SWCS, you would also have researched that, since the report card and performance of students is SOLELY based on the OATs and OGTs, you would also see that the scores and AYP information include students with special needs, students from low socio-economic backgrounds, and students of minority populations (including students who do not speak English as a first language or even at all!) And, since you have done your research, you would see the percentages of all these groups are quite substantial in comparison to school districts who historically perform better on these tests: 12% black,.2% Native American, 1.8% Asian Pacific Islander, 8.9% Hispanic, 3.2% multi-racial, 23.9% economically disadvantaged, 11.5% Non-English Language Learners, 13.1% disabled, and .2% migrant. Terry, since you are, based on your writing, a well educated person as well as someone who speaks English as a primary language and may not have diagnosed educational disability (or one that prevents you from succeeding without accommodations), it would be hard for you to understand how difficult it is for a student to take these tests let alone a student without any of the above conditions! These tests are being used to FOOL the general and uninformed population of the United States to think that they prove students are learning.

The truth is, I would encourage you to all look back into your educational history and find a time where you studied and worked your hardest JUST TO TAKE THE TEST AND BE DONE WITH IT! If the people of SWCS want their teachers to begin to teach students just for a test much like the suburban schools and other schools in the United States (again I refer you to research the articles available that show that schools in Virginia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and even Ohio do this), rather than create lifelong learners and productive citizens who can help increase the mean household income in the district, then they are under the false pretense of what a school is supposed to do. A district like SWCS requires specialized teachers that cost money, specialized programs that cost money, specialized materials that cost money... I think you get the picture.

So, I would like to encourage Terry, his supporters, and his opposition, to vote, but it sounds like the "grassroots" movement to stop the levy from passing really needs to come up with a plan to encourage success in the school district, encourage change at the state and federal level to improve education and funding issues before voting no. And, don't complain if the levy fails and students are packed in a classroom of 30 or more students, without textbooks, computers, materials, and sometimes even qualified teachers because there is no money.
SWCS Resident

Marengo, OH

#7 Jul 19, 2009
This group is obsessed with micro-investigating SWCS at the cost of kids.

Any system: business, government, or even churches, can have budget flaws and errors, and can always improve on how they operate. They still have to pay for quality.

SWAT should stay as an acronym for police units. At least the police have a goal of helping others, not hurting kids.

SWAT is pathetic in their unending attack on schools.
CRob87

Columbus, OH

#8 Jul 19, 2009
As i've mentioned on a similar post...

Maybe it's time for the SWCS District to declare Bankruptcy ???

81% of it's Budget in Salaries and Benefits are similar numbers and reasons for the recent GM Bankruptcy.

Also...If ANY School District actually filed for Bankruptcy protection, then Wouldn't the Federal Government Finally Have To Bail-Out the Schools ???

Especially since the Ohio Supreme Court has already ruled it to be "Unconstitutional" to fund a School District with Levies.

Wouldn't they Finally Have To fix the broken system already in place ???

Just curious ???
CRob87

Columbus, OH

#9 Jul 19, 2009
Maybe shooting down EVERY Levy over the next 2 years will force the Schools OR the Government to Finally fix the broken system ???

Maybe THAT angle Should Be our new Crusade ???
CRob87

Columbus, OH

#10 Jul 19, 2009
Forcing the Government to get involved and do what they "Should Have" done decades ago !!!
Austin

United States

#11 Jul 19, 2009
CRob87 wrote:
As i've mentioned on a similar post...
Maybe it's time for the SWCS District to declare Bankruptcy ???
81% of it's Budget in Salaries and Benefits are similar numbers and reasons for the recent GM Bankruptcy.
If that's the case, then every school district in Ohio and probably in the country should be in "bankruptcy". SWCS' numbers in this regard are well within normal limits for all districts. Look it up.
Jeff

Grove City, OH

#12 Jul 19, 2009
My concern regarding any election is when the vote is disregarded.

I voted "yes" for the first 2 levies. Many of my friends voted "no" and feel that their vote was not heard or accepted. These friends are intelligent people just like my friends that voted "yes".

Our country was founded on the principle of the democratic vote and that 233 year principle is more important than any levy, school or otherwise.

I cannot personally attack Mr. Jones for his belief. It is this principle that separates us from Iran, which switched results from their latest presidential election.

If this next levies fails, we will survive, I have been personally involved in similiar situations. I just hope our principles survive.
tommyboy

Franklin Lakes, NJ

#13 Jul 20, 2009
"Bob Whittier, a resident, read a letter to close the meeting. He said for school district officials to attempt a tax issue in a "bad economy" makes little sense. "

To these people, it never made sense to them in a good economy. Only twenty people showed up, that is pretty pathetic and it also sickens me tha Mr. JOnes has the audacity to compare himself to Moses. Barf.
tommyboy

Franklin Lakes, NJ

#14 Jul 20, 2009
mkt1nw wrote:
The comment that teachers and administrators make more money than residents of the district is ignorant. If the residents of the district had bachelor's degrees and in most cases, Master's degrees, then they would deserve more pay as well. I invite these residents to step into an educators shoes for one week and see how it feels.
It should be of no surprise that levys get turned down in SWCS all the time, only 1/3 of adults have a college degree in this district. How can you value an education when you have placed little value on it yourself. The status quo my friends is thinking that education is a requirement forced upon us by the government when it is a responsibilty of the community to better themselves through educating their own. Followers of SWAT do not get this. Most of the quotes I have read from SWATies sound unintelligent and basically bitter about their own situation than anything else.
local business

AOL

#15 Jul 20, 2009
tommyboy wrote:
<quoted text>
It should be of no surprise that levys get turned down in SWCS all the time, only 1/3 of adults have a college degree in this district. How can you value an education when you have placed little value on it yourself. The status quo my friends is thinking that education is a requirement forced upon us by the government when it is a responsibilty of the community to better themselves through educating their own. Followers of SWAT do not get this. Most of the quotes I have read from SWATies sound unintelligent and basically bitter about their own situation than anything else.
Whuda you care Tommy? You're not involved in this community. Hang with the ever so polite N/E folks. You seem to fit in well....
tommyboy

Franklin Lakes, NJ

#16 Jul 20, 2009
I live in GC, that is where my IP routed through. Pretty much that is the kind of response I would expect from you anyways. Look, you can't pay and you are that hard up then vote no. It is your right. But if you are simply voting no because you think teachers are overpaid money grubbers then re-think your position and what it means to this community. I just don't want to pay for the consequences of your no vote. It is gonna cost me a lot more than the 500 bucks a year this levy would cost me.
Austin

Grove City, OH

#17 Jul 20, 2009
Jeff wrote:
My concern regarding any election is when the vote is disregarded.
I voted "yes" for the first 2 levies. Many of my friends voted "no" and feel that their vote was not heard or accepted. These friends are intelligent people just like my friends that voted "yes".
Our country was founded on the principle of the democratic vote and that 233 year principle is more important than any levy, school or otherwise.
I cannot personally attack Mr. Jones for his belief. It is this principle that separates us from Iran, which switched results from their latest presidential election.
If this next levies fails, we will survive, I have been personally involved in similiar situations. I just hope our principles survive.
Nobody is throwing aside any principles. This is the ONLY way the district has to increase revenue. They will keep asking (look at Canal Winchester - it cost their voters more than twice in the end than it would have if they had just voted "yes" initially - but even they came around to the fact that the levy would have to be passed if they expected education to continue at anywhere near its expected level in their district). If you don't like it, then I would suggest you continue to contact your legislators who are ignoring DeRolph. But SWCS, like many other districts, don't have another choice. It's like a Carly Simon song - it will keep coming around again.

Your intelligent friends can keep voting "no" again (I'm sure they've figured out how to obtain an absentee ballot - what does it take? Five minutes to get it in the mail?), and the district will keep asking. And eventually, it will pass because enough people will figure out, "Oh, this affects me, too".
Jeff

Grove City, OH

#18 Jul 20, 2009
Austin wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody is throwing aside any principles. This is the ONLY way the district has to increase revenue. They will keep asking (look at Canal Winchester - it cost their voters more than twice in the end than it would have if they had just voted "yes" initially - but even they came around to the fact that the levy would have to be passed if they expected education to continue at anywhere near its expected level in their district). If you don't like it, then I would suggest you continue to contact your legislators who are ignoring DeRolph. But SWCS, like many other districts, don't have another choice. It's like a Carly Simon song - it will keep coming around again.
Your intelligent friends can keep voting "no" again (I'm sure they've figured out how to obtain an absentee ballot - what does it take? Five minutes to get it in the mail?), and the district will keep asking. And eventually, it will pass because enough people will figure out, "Oh, this affects me, too".
I think my friends that voted "no" are saying it is a spending problem, not a revenue problem. And it is not a wasteful spending issue, it is an issue of certain requirements that have driven up costs. Those higher costs are not teacher salaries or sports. Accordingly, passing a levy is not their solution.

The very first thing a privite business would do is increase classroom size to the point it balanced the budget. The privite sector does this very thing via layoffs and has been adjusting its workforce during this recession, hence, the national employment rate of 9.5%.

The argument of smaller classroom size equals better education is secondary with this recession and arguable considering previous generations did have larger classroom sizes and received a great education. I am sure a business would rather have their supervisors with a ratio of 14 employees to each supervisor instead of 30 employees to each supervisor, this happened to my father as a supervisor, both life and recessions happen.

I voted "yes" twice. I see the "no" position every day in the business world, just watch CNBC and the current earnings report. The are beating their earnings estimates on cost cutting alone (layoffs)with less revenues.

So when the "no" vote won both elections and the levy just comes back on, it does seem like the vote was set aside and so was the principle of the vote.
GC Resident

United States

#19 Jul 20, 2009
I will vote NO. The board members never look at reducing their salaries, or reducing staff at the administration levels". They only look at making the kids and parents suffer for their greediness.
GC Resident

United States

#20 Jul 20, 2009
What about increasing the sales tax. Why do we continually have to hit up the home owners, many of the residents in GC are renters. It is an administration issue not the teachers or the kids. The teachers deserve the raises and the kids deserve to play, but everytime there is a levy, the administration takes soemthing away from the kids. How fair is that, the kids can't vote.

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