In America, atheists are still in the...

In America, atheists are still in the closet

There are 51414 comments on the Spiked story from Apr 11, 2012, titled In America, atheists are still in the closet. In it, Spiked reports that:

So do many other interest and identity groups. Complaint is our political lingua franca: it's what Occupiers, Tea Partiers, Wall Street titans, religious and irreligious people share.

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Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#38745 Sep 25, 2012
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
"In God We Trust" is establishing religion.
So much for your secular democracy.
No. "In God We Trust" establishes no religion, as numerous different "religions" believe in "God".

The prohibition is against Congress passing federal laws with respect to "establishment(s) of religion", which means an official government religion.

You have not one clue what the establishment clause means.

The government can constitutionally say or write or declare anything about God it wants. This violates nothing in the Constitution.

Moron.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#38746 Sep 25, 2012
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No. "In God We Trust" establishes no religion, as numerous different "religions" believe in "God".
The prohibition is against Congress passing federal laws with respect to "establishment(s) of religion", which means an official government religion.
You have not one clue what the establishment clause means.
The government can constitutionally say or write or declare anything about God it wants. This violates nothing in the Constitution.
Moron.
Weren't we talking about you manufacturing a quote from a court case and then repeatedly lying about it?
SupaAFC

Paisley, UK

#38748 Sep 25, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
Review: you insist you voted for appointments made by the Church of England; I denied you did and demanded you prove it.
Strawman: I have insisted that British citizens vote for MP candidates in their respective constituencies. On top of that, I discovered that your claim that the Church of England "appoints" them has been a lie this whole time.
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
You now say these appointments made by the Church of England don't really count.
Because I never bothered checking your claim that the Church of England appoint MPs, assuming that you were taking a ceremonial act out of context. It turns out that you are flat out wrong and that they don't even do that.
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>The secularity of the UK state cannot be compared to the USA as the UK is not a secular state.
"In God We Trust".

You've lost, Barefoot. Repeating the same lies simply labels you as desperate.
SupaAFC

Paisley, UK

#38749 Sep 25, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
How is it your tongue doesn't jump out of your ugly fat lying face?
Translation: Barefoot has been lying this whole time about the Church of England appointing MPs.
SupaAFC

Paisley, UK

#38750 Sep 25, 2012
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No. "In God We Trust" establishes no religion, as numerous different "religions" believe in "God".
Then like Barefoot you are implying that God is not affiliated with religion.
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
The prohibition is against Congress passing federal laws with respect to "establishment(s) of religion", which means an official government religion.
You have not one clue what the establishment clause means.
The government can constitutionally say or write or declare anything about God it wants. This violates nothing in the Constitution.
Moron.
Buck, if you had a case, then the Supreme Court would have interpreted and made rulings akin to your interpretation throughout the past century.

They haven't.

Who am I going to side with: the Supreme Courts of the past century, or an internet tough guy with no clue, experience or qualifications in law?

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#38751 Sep 25, 2012
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>
Strawman: I have insisted that British citizens vote for MP candidates
And the sun rises in the east and sets in the west and whenever you open your mouth, a spooge- coated lie spills out.

You do not vote for those appointments made by the Church of England... no matter how hard you work to move the goal posts.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#38752 Sep 25, 2012
SupaAFC wrote:
Because I never bothered checking your claim that the Church of England appoint MPs,
No one is worried about you checking whether or not the Church of England appoints diocesan Bishops to the House of Lords or if you agree with the fact that they do.

Sun rises in the east, sets in the west, and the Church of England appoints diocesan Bishops to the House of Lords without regard to your opinion.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#38753 Sep 25, 2012
SupaAFC wrote:
"In God We Trust".
The Supreme Court has ruled on this and in the English language.

The sun rises in the east, sets in the west, the motto is not in any way, shape, or form an establishment of religion no matter how hard you stomp your big fat feet, and I can go down a listed of tens of thousands of religions that have a God without regard to your ignorant ill-informed opinion.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#38754 Sep 25, 2012
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>
Then like Barefoot you are implying that God is not affiliated with religion.
I for one am not responsible for your ignorant inferences- especially given the fact you cannot find the moral code within yourself to refrain from manufacturer quotes and falsely attributing them to me.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#38755 Sep 25, 2012
SupaAFC wrote:
Who am I going to side with: the Supreme Courts of the past century
I for one don't care: if you side with the Supreme Court of the United States, then you **HAVE** to conclude that the court concludes it is a motto and agrees with the 9th Circuit Court’s decision that the words are ceremonial and patriotic, and “has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion.”

March... 2011.

Putting aside that in the USA we have a Constitution and unlike the UK, we have a 'separation' of church and state.
wolverine

Greeley, CO

#38756 Sep 25, 2012
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you agree that Britain is more of a secular country than the United States?
Yes, But Soon To Be More Religious Then America.....Islam Cometh, And None Seem To Understand Why.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#38757 Sep 25, 2012
SupaAFC wrote:
Buck, if you had a case, then the Supreme Court would have interpreted and made rulings
March 2011.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#38758 Sep 25, 2012
Maybe Barfy is having a hormonal issue? Menopause perhaps?
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
My brother in law had the same problem. However he now accepts that his medication does help and quiets the voices. That acceptance certainly keeps a lid on manic meltdowns and he leads a normal health life now.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#38759 Sep 25, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Maybe Barfy is having a hormonal issue? Menopause perhaps?
<quoted text>

I'm convince he likes "stomping his feet" AKA ,barefoot stomping.
We should play him some foot stomping music!:)

SupaAFC

Paisley, UK

#38760 Sep 25, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
And the sun rises in the east and sets in the west and whenever you open your mouth, a spooge- coated lie spills out.
You do not vote for those appointments made by the Church of England... no matter how hard you work to move the goal posts.
The Church of England plays no role in appointing MPs whatsoever - not even in ceremonial processions - as I have demonstrated. You have been lying about this claim all along.

Why, Barefoot, do you keep lying?
SupaAFC

Paisley, UK

#38761 Sep 25, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
No one is worried about you checking whether or not the Church of England appoints diocesan Bishops to the House of Lords or if you agree with the fact that they do.
Sun rises in the east, sets in the west, and the Church of England appoints diocesan Bishops to the House of Lords without regard to your opinion.
Once again you are setting up a strawman considering I have not spoken once about bishops or the House of Lords.

The Church of England does not appoint MPs. You, Barefoot, are a liar.
SupaAFC

Paisley, UK

#38762 Sep 25, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
The Supreme Court has ruled on this and in the English language.
The ruling was that "In God We Trust" has a "patriotic or ceremonial character" and was thus not unconstitutional.

Since you persist telling lies about British politics and the Church, and keep overhyping the role of the Queen, by your own standard "ceremonial" equates to "legal" and thus it is by law that Americans are religious as part of their nationality and history.

You, therefore, live in a religious state. By your own line of dishonest, crazy logic.
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
The sun rises in the east, sets in the west, the motto is not in any way, shape, or form an establishment of religion no matter how hard you stomp your big fat feet, and I can go down a listed of tens of thousands of religions that have a God without regard to your ignorant ill-informed opinion.
Only if you pretend that deities are not components of religions.
SupaAFC

Paisley, UK

#38763 Sep 25, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
I for one am not responsible for your ignorant inferences- especially given the fact you cannot find the moral code within yourself to refrain from manufacturer quotes and falsely attributing them to me.
Then you are claiming that post #38641 was manufactured. It wasn't. You got annoyed that I would not forget your claim and ever since have tried to substitute your lack of an argument with ad hominem attacks.

I guess if that's all you have to bring to the table, then that would have to suffice.
SupaAFC

Paisley, UK

#38764 Sep 25, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
March 2011.
And the rest of that sentence you quote-mined was:

"...akin to your interpretation throughout the past century."

Throughout the past century. For Buck's argument to hold merit he has to explain why the Supreme Court has enacted due process not just on a federal level, but on state issues also. In other words, Buck has to pretend that due process never materialised.

You can claim victory by withholding your currency's motto, but evidently you have no clue what "secular" is if you believe that a phrase glorifying a deity is not in any shape or form religious.
SupaAFC

Paisley, UK

#38765 Sep 25, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
I for one don't care: if you side with the Supreme Court of the United States, then you **HAVE** to conclude that the court concludes it is a motto and agrees with the 9th Circuit Court’s decision that the words are ceremonial and patriotic, and “has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion.”
March... 2011.
But according to your own arguments against Britain and the Queen, she is more than a ceremonial figurehead. Thus, by your own argument, you **HAVE** to conclude that "In God We Trust" officially makes the United States a state religion due to its glorification of a deity.

You can't have it both ways, Barefoot. If ceremony does not count in Britain, then it does not count in the United States. Your call.
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
Putting aside that in the USA we have a Constitution and unlike the UK, we have a 'separation' of church and state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_...

Our "Constitution" is akin to a scrapbook of laws and treaties accumulated throughout our history. Notice in particular the Magna Carta that limited the powers of the monarchy way, way back in the medieval period. Yes, Barefoot, even then, in an age where the Catholic Church were major political players in Europe and promoted the divine right of kings, Britain was already starting to take power away from churches and the monarchy.

But then, when you can lie and take ceremonial relics completely out of context, what does learning about history matter when you can just play dumb and make things up?

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